• Watch Out for Scammers!

    We've now added a color code for all accounts. Orange accounts are new members, Blue are full members, and Green are Supporters. If you get a message about a sale from an orange account, make sure you pay attention before sending any money!

Annealing?

S

snajpr

Private
Full Member
Minuteman
Aug 11, 2012
51
0
63
United States
A few stupid questions.

Any problem with tumbling brass after or before annealing, or does it not make a difference?

How often should a case be annealed?

If I neck turn, should I do this before or after annealing? Does it make a difference?
 
Re: Annealing?

You always want to anneal after cleaning and before any sizing ops - this way you can see the colour change more easily and your sizing benefits from consistent hardness of the neck and shoulder.

How often is up to you - I find that work hardening does not occur for quite a few cycles so I tend to split the difference and anneal every other cycle.
 
Re: Annealing?

Thanks for the info.I noticed that new Lapua brass is annealed, so I was curious.

thanks for the info
 
Re: Annealing?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: oldfatguy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Have always neck turned unfired cases which do not need or benifit from annealing.

OFG </div></div>

HUH?
I am a southern boy too but I don't have a clue what you're trying to say here.
I hope you are not saying that there is never a need to anneal after you neck turn a case.
 
Re: Annealing?

This is what I do for bottle neck center fire rifle case,this may or may not work for you.
Anneal every 3rd firing.

For me I don't clean my precision rifle cases.
Just wipe down the case with some rubbing alcohol on a paper towel removing the carbon from the neck and grit from the body.

Then push a bore brush through the neck just to remove some of the carbon.

Anneal if the case needs it.

If your trimmer uses a pilot then trim before the resize.(The reason for this is I feel if you trim after resizing the trimmer pilot will drag on the inside of the neck possibly affecting neck tension).

Then push a bore brush through the neck to remove some of the coked carbon from the annealing.

Resize.

Load.


For me this results in the most consistent neck tension and lowest ES on the chronograph.
Back to back testing on paper from 100 to 1,000 yards has proven prepping cases in this manner is better for titer groupings then any other way I have used in the past.
If you give this a try you may be surprised at the results

Good luck DD
 
Re: Annealing?

OFG I think you may misunderstand what annealing does for you...Necks that have been turned may need annealing even more so than regular neck because of how thin it is. It seems to be in my experience that the thinner something the faster it breaks when work hardened....
 
Re: Annealing?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SuppressorJunkie</div><div class="ubbcode-body">OFG I think you may misunderstand what annealing does for you...Necks that have been turned may need annealing even more so than regular neck because of how thin it is. It seems to be in my experience that the thinner something the faster it breaks when work hardened.... </div></div>

This.
I like to anneal after neck turning. IMHO, it is very beneficial after putting all that stress on the neck.
 
Re: Annealing?

I deprime all my bras with a universal de-priming die then clean using stainless steel pins.

When shaken dry in a big bath towel, I then anneal. This not only lets me see the color changes easier, I don't have the possibility of "alloying" any of he crud into the brass while heating.

From there all other case prep procedures are done as necessary. For brand new brass I'll fire form first then clean, trim, and neck turn. That brand new case, as far as I'm concerned, needs at least one fire forming before bothering with neck turning. This makes sure that any brass that's going to migrate from the shoulder into the neck junction has done so. I get less doughnuts and more uniform necks when turned.
 
Re: Annealing?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shoot4fun</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: oldfatguy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Have always neck turned <span style="color: #CC0000">unfired</span> cases which do not need or benifit from annealing.

OFG </div></div>

HUH?
I am a southern boy too but I don't have a clue what you're trying to say here.
I hope you are not saying that there is never a need to anneal after you neck turn a case. </div></div>

The operative word is <span style="color: #CC0000">"unfired"</span> which to me means the case is also new.

It would be nice if neck turning was also a magical way to do away with the need to anneal your cases after a number (different people have their favorite numbers) of firings, but I don't think Sinclair or K&M have that one figured out, yet.

OFG
 
Re: Annealing?

In watching some of the vids on youtube, I see at least a few people who drop their cases directly into water to cool them. Others seem to just let it cool at room temp.


Thoughts?
 
Re: Annealing?

IMO it's not necessary to quench. Also I recommend getting some tempilaq. Over annealing is a problem and under annealing doesn't accomplish anything.
 
Re: Annealing?

I use the 700 degree and set the Bench-Source so the tempilaq melts on the inside of the neck just(1/4 second or so) before the brass leaves the flame. Takes usually 4.2 seconds.

In the past since I didn't want to risk ruining 1000 expensive Lapua 6.5x47L brass I experimented with the turned color of the brass, the pinch test with vise grips, the glow in a dark room and of course Tempilaq trying to find which of these correlated with each other the best. Color was the least reliable way of determining whether the brass was annealed correctly or not. The pinch method was a pain to get right. The glow in a dark room worked well if it was nearly pitch black in the room. Pinch, dark room and Tempilaq coincided the most. Tempilaq is just plain easy.
 
Re: Annealing?

Thanks Steve, I have been using the glow in the dark room.
I just let the neck get a dull red and then remove it from the heat. I am looking at getting a Bench-Source
 
Re: Annealing?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DaveD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks Steve, I have been using the glow in the dark room.
I just let the neck get a dull red and then remove it from the heat. I am looking at getting a Bench-Source </div></div>

Your welcome Dave. You'll really like the Bench Sourse.
 
Re: Annealing?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: snajpr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What's the method for removing the Tempilaq from the cases once they are annealed? </div></div>

I use some cases that were funky for one reason or another to experiment with, same cartridge I'll be annealing. The good cases never get tempilaq on them.
 
Re: Annealing?

If you are neck turning it will probably work better if you turn before annealing. Harder brass cuts easier than soft and will cut more cleanly. Ask any machinest who works with brass. They will tell you that harder brass is a lot easier to work with and gives a better surface finish. After trimming you can anneal or not as you see fit. Thinner material breaks or cracks easier than thick simply because there is less material to handle a load. You won't change the properties of the brass by neck turning but you will by annealing. When it gets work hardened anneal it. Neck turning can work harden the brass especially if the cutter is dull. I've found that some of the cases I neck turn will actually stretch when turning which lets me know the cutter is dull (tool steel not carbide). When dull it pushes the brass more than cuts it and I find some of my 510 whisper brass actually grows by 10 to 20 thousandths.

I anneal my brass by looking for the color change in the flame. When it turns green you quench. This was taught to me by a Kiwi metal fabricator I used to work with. Its consistent and works well.
If you read up on the characteristics of brass and other copper based metals you will find that quenching sets the grain size you created by annealing. If you air cool the grains can grow to the larger size you annealed to get rid of. On other metals like aluminum quenching and air cooling have a different effect. As we know on steel quick quenching hardens the material. It varies with the material and quick quenching brass in water won't harden it but will give a consistant hardness to the brass that air cooling won't.


Frank
 
Re: Annealing?

I anneal, and do pretty much exactly what steve123 said. I use dummy cases for the 700 degree tempilaq. to set up my torches before I run my real brass. I toss the Tempilaq mule cases into the tumbler to clean the tempilaq off of them. These cases would have been recycled a long time ago but for their job of helping with annealing.

For turned brass I have some Temilaq mule cases for those cases too. Thinner necks need less time to anneal.

I do not quench, I let them drop roughly 4-5 inches from my gizmo into a cardboard box. They are a bit toasty at that point in time, but the box does not seem to care.

too much heat too long and you kill the brass; too little and you did nothing.

JeffVN
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

J
Dumb Question (Heated Brass in Oven)
Replies
7
Views
731
Badfinger
Badfinger
J
Annealing/Sizing Advise
Replies
23
Views
1K
elfster1234
elfster1234
G
AMP or Annie?
Replies
28
Views
2K
BadSquirrel
B
iceng
Annealing - flame vs induction
Replies
17
Views
2K
rmfield
rmfield
P
Annealing Help Needed.
Replies
31
Views
1K
secondofangle2
secondofangle2
Top Bottom
Back