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6.5 Grendel

Outlaw45

Outlaw45

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Full Member
Minuteman
Nov 12, 2007
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Iowa, USA
I have a AR15 in 5.56 that I mainly use for coyote hunting. I was thinking of building another upper in another caliber. Something that could have more range and buck the wind better. I've been hearing of the 6.5 Grendel and I like what I hear and think that's the way to go. I don't know much about the cartridge though. Anyone care to share their thoughts on it?

I assume the only thing different needed would be a barrel, bolt, and magazine? Who makes good barrels for it?

Or are there any other 6mm cartridges that are better/easier to use in an AR15?
 
Re: 6.5 Grendel

Satern, JP, and Les Baer all make excellent barrels----Sabre Defense made good barrels for a factory barrel---not sure of their current status though---those above are the ones I have experience with----have heard good things about Lothar Walther barrels----might contact Scott at Specialized Dynamics or Mark at Short Action Customs for expert opinions
 
Re: 6.5 Grendel

The 6.5 Grendel is a fantastic performer. The weak link in the platform is the magazine. I am aware of a couple of magazine PIP's underway and hopefully one of them succeeds in fielding a high reliability magazine.
 
Re: 6.5 Grendel

The 6.5g/.264LBC is a great LR round but I'm going with a 6mmBR for LR comps.
 
Re: 6.5 Grendel

I tried to catch Mark at SAC to put together a Grendel, but he's discontinued work on AR's. Too bad for us, his work looked well detailed and executed. Have Bob Reynolds at Templar building a 20" Bartlein with Race Rail and should be complete in next couple of weeks. Anxious for arrival....yes I am.
 
Re: 6.5 Grendel

How are Alexander Arms barrels? They seem to be the one who started it.
 
Re: 6.5 Grendel

I have an AA 24 in. Grendel, really love the way it shoots. Check out the 6.5 Grendel forum, good info and a great bunch of guys. Shooting 800 to 1000 yds with an AR-15 is the heat.
 
Re: 6.5 Grendel

I have had a number of different Grendels, and am a real fan of the cartridge. I think it is about the perfect blend for practical rifle matches that integrate precision, distance, and rapid fire. The Grendel seems to have about 20% more recoil than the 5.56, yet hits plates with about 75% the energy of the 7.62x51. The best part is that it's wind bucking, and trajectory is much more like a 300 Win Mag than a 123 grain bullet going 2550-2560 fps.

I used to have a 24 inch tube, but have settled on a 18 inch Lothar Walther barrel on one of my Grendels, and an Alexander Arms 19.5 inch Shilen barrel on my other one. Sure, you get a little more velocity from the longer tube, but it becomes pretty unwieldy for rapid movement between multiple close targets. The 20 inch barrels seem to have the best compromise between length and velocity.

My rounds don't go transonic until around 1300 yards, (give or take 150 yards depending on conditions) and that is plenty for a little rifle like that.

If I could get an barrel out there, I would now order one of the newer ones from Alexander Arms that is a light to medium weight, fluted, 20 inch barrel, and put a good comp on the end.

Although I have no commercial connection with Alexander Arms, their customer service is fabulous. Short action customs, JP, Alexander Arms, Les Baer all make great rifles in this caliber. I don't think you would be disappointed in a rifle from any one of those 4 companies.

Keep in mind, that the Alexander Arms brass is made by Lapua, so if you are buying a bunch of brass, Alexander's or Lapua's cases are second to none. I have settled on the 123 grain bullets (Scenar, Amax) as having the best all around performance.
 
Re: 6.5 Grendel

LBC .264 with S&B PM II 4-16 X 50. I took it to Rifles Only for the 6 day Precision Rifle 1 and 2 course. It was the smallest gun there by far, but definitely held its own against the big boys!
 
Re: 6.5 Grendel

I am considering one of the AA GDMRs with a 20" barrel.

What kind of precision and exterior ballistics are you seeing out of the Alexander Arms rifles?

Pros and cons of 1-in-8" versus 1-in-8.5" twist barrels? Pros and cons of the other high quality manufacturers?

Best brakes? Brakes that mate to suppressors?

Other thoughts?
 
Re: 6.5 Grendel

I've got an AR15 in 6.5 grendel. Great round, as was already said it shines with ammo in the 120gr area. Mine has a 1:8 twist 20" lilja with the grendel chamber and it shoots great. For 120gr ammo any 6.5 barrel around 1:9 to 1:8 twist will work great.
A few good barrel brands,
Kreiger
Lilja
Lothar Walther
Satern
 
Re: 6.5 Grendel

Glock and roll, let us know how the M1S works out for you. I am back and forth between a used AA upper, or a new JT or M1S.


Unknown, if you had to choose the 18 or the 20" for a hunter, which would you choose?
 
Re: 6.5 Grendel

I've had nothing but luck w/their SS .223 rem bbls, and I've ordered 3 - granted that was in a different caliber. I'll be sure to post a review if I get one. So far I've bought everything to keep as I'm not aware of them sending anything out on T&E.
 
Re: 6.5 Grendel

I have a 24" LW barrel shooting .5 moa and better at 100 and have shot 1.5" groups at 300 with Hornady 123 AMax's. Bout the only hunting I do with this is for Hogs so I don't mind the barrel length and extra weight. Definitely a fun round with a variety of uses.
 
Re: 6.5 Grendel

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: m_gale</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 6.5 Grendel is a fantastic performer. The weak link in the platform is the magazine. I am aware of a couple of magazine PIP's underway and hopefully one of them succeeds in fielding a high reliability magazine. </div></div>

ive used cproduct magazines for all my grendel builds and haven't any issues with them.
 
Re: 6.5 Grendel

Can anyone explain the "compound chamber" of the 6.5 Grendel?

Has anyone compared it to the similar variants, .264 LBC, 6.5 CSS, etc.?

Does any one of these have a significant edge?
 
Re: 6.5 Grendel

I coyote hunt ALOT and I run a 16" 6.8SPC In a short barrel the grendel takes the back seat to the 6.8 Do your research before you decide and buy a rifle to fits your hunting style. I call yotes and most of my shots are around 50-150 and I want a light, fast handling rifle and for that role the 6.8 shines.....
 
Re: 6.5 Grendel

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kino</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I coyote hunt ALOT and I run a 16" 6.8SPC In a short barrel the grendel takes the back seat to the 6.8 Do your research before you decide and buy a rifle to fits your hunting style. I call yotes and most of my shots are around 50-150 and I want a light, fast handling rifle and for that role the 6.8 shines.....</div></div>

If you don't mind my asking, how does the 6.5 fail to compare to the 6.8?

I get 300blk as it's great for both super and subsonic, I just never saw the fascination with 6.8. You can hunt with 5.56, many dead hog/deer/gooks/vermin are proof of it - and at much farther ranges with the good 77grn'ers. This whole "if you hunt you need a 6.8" is the result of a bunch of marketing as far as I'm concerned.
 
Re: 6.5 Grendel

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GlockandRoll</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nukes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Can anyone explain the "compound chamber" of the 6.5 Grendel?

Has anyone compared it to the similar variants, .264 LBC, 6.5 CSS, etc.?

Does any one of these have a significant edge?</div></div>

http://www.rifleshootermag.com/2011/11/02/6-5-grendel-evolution/

</div></div>

Thank you.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...The next task was getting the new cartridge to shoot. The first throat designs were found wanting, so Alexander took a page from the Swedish Mauser book.

“The 6.5x55mm Swede is peculiar among all the other 6.5mms in that it has a half-degree throat,” he says. “This commences right at the end of the chamber neck. The proof is the Swede will shoot just about anything you stuff in it while maintaining a military chamber.

“However the 6.5x55mm is a large case designed for single-base extruded powder. The smaller Grendel has a propensity for double-base ball type propellants. The difference is the double-base propellants are more pressure sensitive.

“Due to this the half degree throat pirated from the Mauser was not building pressure. This worried me regarding secondary detonation in extreme cold conditions, such as Alaska. So we solved this problem by designing the chamber with the back of the throat like a Swedish Mauser and the front like a stock SAMMI design. It was then dubbed a ‘compound angle’ throat because it has two angles, three if you count the transition from the neck to the throat.”

The new chamber design proved not only very accurate but also very forgiving. This latter point is important due to the diverse weight, length and shape of available .264 inch projectiles. All production Alexander Arms 6.5mm Grendel rifles have utilized this compound angle chamber design. Delivery began in late 2004....



Read more: http://www.rifleshootermag.com/2011/11/02/6-5-grendel-evolution/#ixzz25ekc3ZZ4</div></div>

I tried to find a schematic online for a more precise understanding, but failed.
 
Re: 6.5 Grendel

I'm at a point where I have a few 223 AR's and I thought about getting something different. I wanted something with more downrange knockdown power and less wind drift. To be used mostly on coyotes. Range to maybe 500-600.

I hear a lot about the 300blk and it seems to be catching on like wildfire. I don't think it has the range though.

What's the goods on the 6.8?
 
Re: 6.5 Grendel

5-600 yards on coyotes I'd get a 6mmAR, not the 40 Turbo version just a plain ol' 6mmAR.

21" barreled AR in 6.5 Grendel I'm pushing a 95 V-max at 2960 fps. Pretty easy to keep hits on a 1/2 sized IPSC steel target at 600.
 
Re: 6.5 Grendel

95 grns is a small pill for the grendel..the 123A-max seems to be producing the best results.
 
Re: 6.5 Grendel

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GlockandRoll</div><div class="ubbcode-body">95 grns is a small pill for the grendel..the 123A-max seems to be producing the best results. </div></div>

It depends on what you want to do with it. I shot the 123amax and they work good, but best performance yet has come from the 123smk's with IMR 8208 powder.

Some folks like to get up to the 2700fps range and use the 107 or 108's, I've actually thumped several coyotes at 200+ yards with the 85gr hollow point as well.
 
Re: 6.5 Grendel

My latest Grendel runs the 108's at 2820 with a 20" and with CFE. I am not sticking with CFE because of the temperature sensitivity problems I am currently encountering. We get 2780 woth 8208 out of hornady brass.

I also agree with Mccourt on the 6mm class in the ar.
 
Re: 6.5 Grendel

the next best thing out of the grendel case is necking it down to 6MM, I have a grendel for three more years that my 6mmAR and it was my go to rifle, not it is relegated to plinker status and the 6MM is a fantastic long range rig only bettered by my 260 remi bolt gun.
all three make great hunting rifles and a couple of them are good for matches also.
hope this helps.
 
Re: 6.5 Grendel

Since we're talking about 6mm, i think the 6woa is even better than necking down a grendel.
The WOA uses a 6.8spc case, necks it down to 6mm. I've been hunting with mine, using a 75gr vmax shooting it just over 3000fps and a few buddies are shooting thiers at 3400fps with a 65gr bullet.

Im not sure what bullets and velocities people are getting out of their 6mmRAT and super fat rat, but with more case capacity its hard to go wrong with the 6WOA.
 
Re: 6.5 Grendel

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nukes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What is CFE? </div></div>
COPPER FOULING ERASER

AZPRC if you are having temp problems you should try IMR 8208XBR
 
Re: 6.5 Grendel

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: attherange</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the next best thing out of the grendel case is necking it down to 6MM, I have a grendel for three more years that my 6mmAR and it was my go to rifle, not it is relegated to plinker status and the 6MM is a fantastic long range rig only bettered by my 260 remi bolt gun.
all three make great hunting rifles and a couple of them are good for matches also.
hope this helps. </div></div>

It is no secret the 6mm wildcats kick the g's ass for target shooting. I was after a .264 build until I read up on the 6mmBR, now I'm waiting on a 6BR barrel to start a long range build...
 
Re: 6.5 Grendel

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Outlaw45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm at a point where I have a few 223 AR's and I thought about getting something different. I wanted something with more downrange knockdown power and less wind drift. To be used mostly on coyotes. Range to maybe 500-600.

I hear a lot about the 300blk and it seems to be catching on like wildfire. I don't think it has the range though.

What's the goods on the 6.8? </div></div>

The 6.8 or 6.5g/.264 would be a great choice if moving away from the .223. The 6.8 will cover anything out to around 400yds with a wide range of factory ammo and bullets for reloading. A 110gr bullet going 2700fps out of a 16" bbl is impressive. The g/.264 doesn't have as much support but it is a good choice for past 400yds target shooting. Both are pretty damn close to each other within 400yds, the better 6.5 target bullets will give the g the edge past that.

Think of the 300blk as another 7.62X39 with the X39 having slighty better numbers. For supersonic use it has a nice 110gr Barnes black tip that works well on game, you are limited on range though. You will see the 300 come into its own when short barrels, heavy subsonic bullets and cans are used. It can make a awesome sub gun.
 
Re: 6.5 Grendel

Lets talk about the 6.5, 6.8, 300blk, etc..

Each comes into their own game.

6.8spc thumps hard on animals(and people i suppose)out to 300-400yds.
6.5 Grendel has the capapbilities of going to 1000+( i shot an 1135 target last year in OK using one of my grendel builds)
6mm wildcats are pretty much a 243short in my opinion, has the speed to get out far, but doesn't have the thump on animals at distance like the 6.5 or the 6.8 does.

Hunting in the south or east under 200yds(supersonic) 6.8spc hands down
Hunting hogs and anything deer size and smaller under 300yds(subsonic) 300blk out
Hunting in the west or open areas and have the occasional 300-500yd shot, 6.5 or the 6mm wildcats
Hunting AND shooting precision long range, 123gr Grendel is the way to go.

Everyone has their favorites and talk smack about other cartridges, i have them all, build them all and this is just my opinion....and because its the season.......I approve this message!! LOL
 
Re: 6.5 Grendel

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scottmilk9</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Lets talk about the 6.5, 6.8, 300blk, etc..

Each comes into their own game.

6.8spc thumps hard on animals(and people i suppose)out to 300-400yds.
6.5 Grendel has the capapbilities of going to 1000+( i shot an 1135 target last year in OK using one of my grendel builds)
6mm wildcats are pretty much a 243short in my opinion, has the speed to get out far, but doesn't have the thump on animals at distance like the 6.5 or the 6.8 does.

Hunting in the south or east under 200yds(supersonic) 6.8spc hands down
Hunting hogs and anything deer size and smaller under 300yds(subsonic) 300blk out
Hunting in the west or open areas and have the occasional 300-500yd shot, 6.5 or the 6mm wildcats
Hunting AND shooting precision long range, 123gr Grendel is the way to go.

Everyone has their favorites and talk smack about other cartridges, i have them all, build them all and this is just my opinion....and because its the season.......I approve this message!! LOL </div></div>

Thanks Scott you just saved me a long post!!! I agree with everything you say. I hunt in the east and my calling rifle is short and light. The grendel cannot match the velocity or energy in a short barrel that the 6.8 produces. Feel free to run the numbers, just make sure you are comparing the same barrel length and bullet weight. Likewise the 6.8 cannot match the BC of the grendel at long range. There have been MANY MANY deer and hogs taken with the 6.8 to prove its performance as a close to medium range killing round, and with ALOT more choices of ammo and the choice of a small primer pocket in the SSA brass, its a no brainer for hunting in the east (which is where I live.).
Add to the fact all of AA's and crazy bills hooplah with the "Grendel" copyright and its one more reason to choose something else!!
 
Re: 6.5 Grendel

Last I checked, a spec II 6.8 is capable of being effective on game out to 500 yards and is supersonic out to 1000 yards. It has a wide variety of bullets, and performs just as well with heavier bullets as the 6.5, of not better. I've seen people get the same speed with a 130gr. 6.8 that people with the 6.5 get out of a 120gr. round, which would make them pretty even, except the 6.8 will have more energy.

Nothing wrong with the 6.5 though, only reason I don't like it is because you can't get it in lefty, no one makes the bolt for it, so I'll stick with the 6.8.
 
Re: 6.5 Grendel

cfe is a great powder for the grendel. i am able to reach 2724 ftps with a 123 grain amax safely. confirmed by dope at 600 and 1k.
on the grendel forum they are reaching 2600 ftps with the 130 grain bullets.
 
Re: 6.5 Grendel

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kino</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Add to the fact all of AA's and crazy bills hooplah with the "Grendel" copyright and its one more reason to choose something else!! </div></div>

The 6.5gARP would be my choice. That would be a .264LBC from AR15 Performance.
grin.gif


Well said on the 6.8 stuff!
 
Re: 6.5 Grendel

Scott,
you summed it up pretty nice for me.

I'm thinking a light weight 18" barrel for an AR in the 6.5G over the 6.8spc. Then also get a 300blk just to cover it all.

Is the AAC300, AAC300BLK, 300Blackout, and 300 Whisper the same thing?
 
Re: 6.5 Grendel

I find it hard to beat the grendel for all around performance. You have short & long range performance. I use the 95 gn vmax for short range plinking & ground hog hunting out to 400 yards. The 123 gn amax for long range targets. I like my blackout for short range fun!
 
Re: 6.5 Grendel

Ok what's the difference between 6.5 Grendel and 264LBC? I've heard they're compatible? Is it like a 223 will work in a 556?
 
Re: 6.5 Grendel

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Outlaw45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ok what's the difference between 6.5 Grendel and 264LBC? I've heard they're compatible? Is it like a 223 will work in a 556? </div></div>
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2010/03/26/264-lbc-ar-a-grendel-clone/

The LBC-AR differs slightly from the Grendel in that it has a .295 neck (as used by the 6.5mm CSS) and a 1 degree throat angle (as used by the 6.5mm PPCX).
 
Re: 6.5 Grendel

What all is needed to convert the standard AR-15, 223/5.56, to the 6.5G?

I know the barrel, bolt, and lower can be used, but can you use the same upper? Basically unthread the 5.56/223 barrel and thread the 6.5G on the same upper with the same barrel nut?

Sorry for my ignorance, and I'm sure this has been answered somewhere, but I just don't know. I'm a bolt man new to the AR world. I purchased a unique Upper,lower, and tube from RWgunsmithing this week and I want to use an exotic caliber.

Thanks in advance.
 
Re: 6.5 Grendel

Snyper. Only parts needed to convert to 6.5grendel are barrel, bolt, and magazines.
 
Re: 6.5 Grendel

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WildBill3/75</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Snyper. Only parts needed to convert to 6.5grendel are barrel, bolt, and magazines. </div></div>

Thanks wild bill. Just the info I needed.
 
Re: 6.5 Grendel

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GlockandRoll</div><div class="ubbcode-body">95 grns is a small pill for the grendel..the 123A-max seems to be producing the best results. </div></div>

Inside of 500 yards, 95 isn't giving up much to the 123. If you are shooting coyotes past 500, 6.5 Grendel wouldn't be my first choice. I'd be reaching for a 260 pushing 140 VLDs.

123 doesn't really start to surpass the 95 until you are past 600 yards. If you are shooting coyotes past 600, then I agree with you and would suggest 123s out of the 6.5 G. Actually, I'd suggest a 260 bolt rifle at that point but I digress.
 
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