Beard Hearing

[HajjWhisperer]

Saw this on Yahoo, can't believe that they had to have a hearing on whether or not he can grow a beard and that the decision to forcibly shave this piece of shit can be appealed. This crap has been going on for months, no telling how much money is being wasted.

Plus if he wants to plead guilty, let him. Should have discharged him and let Texas have him. He'd probably already be on death row. I've experienced how slow the military can be at times, but you'd think in this case justice would be pretty swift.

 

[shankster..]

Re: Beard Hearing

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hajjwhisperer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Saw this on Yahoo, can't believe that they had to have a hearing on whether or not he can grow a beard and that the decision to forcibly shave this piece of shit can be appealed. This crap has been going on for months, no telling how much money is being wasted.

Plus if he wants to plead guilty, let him. Should have discharged him and let Texas have him. He'd probably already be on death row. I've experienced how slow the military can be at times, but you'd think in this case justice would be pretty swift. </div></div>

 

[KYpatriot]

Re: Beard Hearing

More political correctness destroying our military and making a mockery of our country.
We have uniform standards. Military members are required to follow them under the UCMJ. A courtroom is an official function requiring wear of the uniform.

If he refuses to wear the uniform, charge him with that too and put it on him. If he refuses to shave, tack that on his sentence and do it for him.

What have the armed forces become?

 

[Veer_G]

Re: Beard Hearing

We're required to have an unshorn beard. My take on Islam is that the fist-length beard is a sign of piety, but I think he blew that. I'd just by-pass the issue by trying him as-is and throw the book at him for everything they can ... consecutively if they can't just fry him outright.

 

[Queequeg]

Re: Beard Hearing

Too bad it's not a frenzied beard of bees. Workplace violence my ass.

 

[dbsinh2o]

Re: Beard Hearing

Beards in the Army? Hopefully, the Secretary of <span style="text-decoration: line-through">Diversity</span> Defense doesn't weigh in on this one.


"In a Dec. 19 letter (to an unindicted co-conspirator in a terrorism case)..., Deputy Assistant Secretary of the Army Larry Stubblefield wrote:

”I have been asked to respond on behalf of the Secretary of Defense Leon E. Panetta to your October 13, 2011 letter concerning... request to wear a religious head covering (hijab)...

“Based on your concerns, the Army has reviewed its JROTC uniform policy and will develop appropriate procedures to provide Cadets the opportunity to request the wear of religious head dress, such as the... hijab. This change will allow... students the chance to fully participate in the JROTC program...

“The Army prides itself in being a diverse organization, comprised of individuals from many faiths and religions. We appreciate you bringing this matter to our attention.”

 

[Veer_G]

Re: Beard Hearing

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dbsinh20</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Beards in the Army? Hopefully, the Secretary of <span style="text-decoration: line-through">Diversity</span> Defense doesn't weigh in on this one.


"In a Dec. 19 letter (to an unindicted co-conspirator in a terrorism case)..., Deputy Assistant Secretary of the Army Larry Stubblefield wrote:

”I have been asked to respond on behalf of the Secretary of Defense Leon E. Panetta to your October 13, 2011 letter concerning... request to wear a religious head covering (hijab)...

“Based on your concerns, the Army has reviewed its JROTC uniform policy and will develop appropriate procedures to provide Cadets the opportunity to request the wear of religious head dress, such as the... hijab. This change will allow... students the chance to fully participate in the JROTC program...

“The Army prides itself in being a diverse organization, comprised of individuals from many faiths and religions. We appreciate you bringing this matter to our attention.”

</div></div>

You could do a lot worse than fielding a regiment of bearded men ...

 

[klf]

Re: Beard Hearing

A side arm grinder would remove it nicely. With some hot pepper sauce for aftershave.

 

[klf]

Re: Beard Hearing

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Veer_G</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dbsinh20</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Beards in the Army? Hopefully, the Secretary of <span style="text-decoration: line-through">Diversity</span> Defense doesn't weigh in on this one.


"In a Dec. 19 letter (to an unindicted co-conspirator in a terrorism case)..., Deputy Assistant Secretary of the Army Larry Stubblefield wrote:

”I have been asked to respond on behalf of the Secretary of Defense Leon E. Panetta to your October 13, 2011 letter concerning... request to wear a religious head covering (hijab)...

“Based on your concerns, the Army has reviewed its JROTC uniform policy and will develop appropriate procedures to provide Cadets the opportunity to request the wear of religious head dress, such as the... hijab. This change will allow... students the chance to fully participate in the JROTC program...

“The Army prides itself in being a diverse organization, comprised of individuals from many faiths and religions. We appreciate you bringing this matter to our attention.”

</div></div>

You could do a lot worse than fielding a regiment of bearded men ... </div></div>

I agree but not for this fucker!

 

[dbsinh2o]

Re: Beard Hearing

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Veer_G</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You could do a lot worse than fielding a regiment of bearded men ... </div></div>

Perhaps, but you'd have a lot of dead soldiers following a chemical/biological attack.

The Navy used to allow beards, until someone figured out they rendered a gas mask ineffective.


Edit: Perhaps they could schedule the good Major for daily chemical warfare training. Nothing like a good whiff of CS to prompt someone to break out that Norelco!

 

[Tough Guy]

Re: Beard Hearing

Our court system in general:

It's not about right or wrong, it's not about truth or justice, it's about the law and how many ways you can twist it to your advantage.

 

[Veer_G]

Re: Beard Hearing

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dbsinh20</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Veer_G</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You could do a lot worse than fielding a regiment of bearded men ... </div></div>

Perhaps, but you'd have a lot of dead soldiers following a chemical/biological attack.

The Navy used to allow beards, until someone figured out they rendered a gas mask ineffective.


Edit: Perhaps they could schedule the good Major for daily chemical warfare training. Nothing like a good whiff of CS to prompt someone to break out that Norelco!

</div></div>

Evidence to the contrary indicates that recent bearded personnel have managed to effect sufficient seals against gas:

http://www.army.mil/article/36339/

 

[dbsinh2o]

Re: Beard Hearing

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Veer_G</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dbsinh20</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Veer_G</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You could do a lot worse than fielding a regiment of bearded men ... </div></div>

Perhaps, but you'd have a lot of dead soldiers following a chemical/biological attack.

The Navy used to allow beards, until someone figured out they rendered a gas mask ineffective.


Edit: Perhaps they could schedule the good Major for daily chemical warfare training. Nothing like a good whiff of CS to prompt someone to break out that Norelco!

</div></div>

Evidence to the contrary indicates that recent bearded personnel have managed to effect sufficient seals against gas:

http://www.army.mil/article/36339/ </div></div>


That's a classic. Photographic evidence of no seal whatsoever - if you knew what to look for, you'd be laughing at that picture.

But in reality, it's no laughing matter. This type of mask is not designed to seal with a beard or tactical turban. A hood type mask is the only viable option. Hopefully they've hooked him up with the proper equipment, and this picture is just a PR shot. Even with the rest of a CW suit, he wouldn't make it with a standard issue mask, a beard, and headgear.

 

[shankster..]

Re: Beard Hearing

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Veer_G</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dbsinh20</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Veer_G</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You could do a lot worse than fielding a regiment of bearded men ... </div></div>

Perhaps, but you'd have a lot of dead soldiers following a chemical/biological attack.

The Navy used to allow beards, until someone figured out they rendered a gas mask ineffective.


Edit: Perhaps they could schedule the good Major for daily chemical warfare training. Nothing like a good whiff of CS to prompt someone to break out that Norelco!

</div></div>

Evidence to the contrary indicates that recent bearded personnel have managed to effect sufficient seals against gas:

http://www.army.mil/article/36339/ </div></div>

That article is a piece of propaganda bullshit.

Veer,
You obviously have never had to wear respiratory protection for real or you wouldn't even type this stupid shit. You can't grow your man-beard and get a decent seal on anything but but a full hood PAPR. Even with a PAPR, you don't get a seal, the hood is just positively pressured. PAPRs are rechargeable battery powered. No good for defense forces in the field. Stick to stating "facts" about stuff you actually know about.

If you wish to disagree with me, try it. Get a full face respirator, stuff your face and your uncut man-beard in it, go in a garage, set of a GS canister and begin to do a full work out. Let me know how it goes.

I get your religious "man beard" agenda bias. You're just trying too hard to rationalize it.

Next you're going to tell us your turban offers more protection under a kevlar helmet.

I can't believe our military lets personnel wear a turban for "religous" reasons. Where will it end? Hasidic Jews get keep their curls in basic training? Punker Nihilists get to keep their face piercings? Rastafarians keep their dread locks?

I hang a full-sized fleshlight off my belt for my religion. It's kind of like a sexual light saber for those who have achieved a spiritual level of sexual awareness.

 

[Veer_G]

Re: Beard Hearing

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dbsinh20</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That's a classic. Photographic evidence of no seal whatsoever - if you knew what to look for, you'd be laughing at that picture.

But in reality, it's no laughing matter. This type of mask is not designed to seal with a beard or tactical turban. A hood type mask is the only viable option. Hopefully they've hooked him up with the proper equipment, and this picture is just a PR shot. Even with the rest of a CW suit, he wouldn't make it with a standard issue mask, a beard, and headgear.</div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shankster</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Veer_G</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dbsinh20</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Veer_G</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You could do a lot worse than fielding a regiment of bearded men ... </div></div>

Perhaps, but you'd have a lot of dead soldiers following a chemical/biological attack.

The Navy used to allow beards, until someone figured out they rendered a gas mask ineffective.


Edit: Perhaps they could schedule the good Major for daily chemical warfare training. Nothing like a good whiff of CS to prompt someone to break out that Norelco!

</div></div>

Evidence to the contrary indicates that recent bearded personnel have managed to effect sufficient seals against gas:

http://usarmy.vo.llnwd.net/e2/-images/2010/03/25/67879/size0-army.mil-67879-2010-03-25-170350.jpg

http://usarmy.vo.llnwd.net/e2/-images/2010/03/25/67876/size0-army.mil-67876-2010-03-25-170351.jpg

http://www.army.mil/article/36339/ </div></div>

Veer,
You obviously have never had to wear respiratory protection for real or you wouldn't even type this stupid shit. You can't grow your man beard and get a decent seal on anything but but a full hood PAPR. Even with a PAPR, you don't get a seal, the hood is just positively pressured. PAPRs are rechargeable battery powered. No good for defense forces in the field. Stick to stating "facts" about stuff you actually know about.

<span style="font-weight: bold">I get your religious "man beard" agenda bias. You're just trying too hard to rationalize it.

Next you're going to tell us your turban offers more protection under a kevlar helmet.

I can't believe our military lets personnel wear a turban for "religous" reasons. Where will it end? I hang a fleshlight off my belt for my religion.</span></div></div>

I would think that a family pack of Ho-Hos on a chain would be more appropriate to your practices, actually. But, whatever, I'm not going to stoop all the way down to the level of your well-documented biases.

What we have here is a matter of truth, or fiction. Either Rattan and others have managed it, and you are wrong, or the government has perpetrated an enormous lie. And if the government has perpetrated a lie, and they have participated in it, they're knowingly going in harm's way without benefit of protection. Is there really an issue here, aside from the fact that some people whose appearance and practices you clearly don't approve of might just have a pair?

 

[shankster..]

Re: Beard Hearing

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Veer_G</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[

Is there really an issue here, aside from <span style="font-weight: bold">the fact that some people whose appearance and practices you clearly don't approve of </span>might just have a pair? </div></div>

<span style="font-weight: bold">It's not that I don't approve of these "appearances, it's that they want to have exceptions made for them is every aspect of our society. Including the military.</span>

 

[Jedi]

Re: Beard Hearing

I,m so glad i no longer have to put up with what the mil has become, it sickens me

Funny how the news channels refer to him "as the alleged shooter"
WTF

How much $$ will be wasted on this sak o crap, feed him to the hogs

 

[wilecoyote]

Re: Beard Hearing

no enforcing needed: a mandatory SCUBA course will suffit: it's interesting learn what religion can do against the water filtering inside the mask_

 

[klf]

Re: Beard Hearing

Veer,

As long as you are willing to fight for me and you realize it may compromise your survival than you and anyone else are good with me.

 

[shankster..]

Re: Beard Hearing

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: klf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Veer,

As long as you are willing to fight for me and you realize it may compromise your survival than you and anyone else are good with me.
</div></div>

Except it may compromise the safety of the people around him while he's break dancing on the ground since his mask didn't seal.

 

[KYpatriot]

Re: Beard Hearing

Look...its not about disrespecting religion. Nothing personal Veer, I respect your posts and generally agree with your opinions. However, the military has no requirement whatsoever to accomodate anyones religious preferences in particular during military service, including mine, its just that mine does not require a beard. It has no requirement to admit beards, turbans, temple underwear, or anything else that it has a legitimate reason to exclude based on uniformity, safety, or efficiency. We have an all volunteer service...that means no one is being forced to join or serve. During a draft anyone who has a conscientious objection to anything required of a military member can apply to be an objector, but serving in the military is a privilege not a right. Believe you me, I dont agree with all the rules, and I am an ardent defender of Constitutional liberty... but the military does not have to make these exceptions. It does so for political correctness, which is a sign of weakness of leadership that should be criticized, not celebrated. Now the turban is one thing...it can be removed in a chemical attack for instance...but a beard cannot.
No one is allowed to waive the rules for their own protection in the military...it is of no consequence that the soldier is willing to endure the risk of a faulty seal on the mask. The fact is, the military should not be willing to allow you to take that risk because you have responsibilities and are a military asset - you don't "own" yourself in the same way that a civilian does.
Not even civilian airlines allow beards for their pilots because of poor seals.
It is what it is...we must bend a little to operate as a coherent unit sometimes. If our individual convictions don't allow that, then we should follow those principles if we place them above military service. But the military has standards, and should not be in the business of exempting everyone for personal reasons in my opinion.
I view Hassan totally different...this jihadist decided it was okay to shave for years while he was undercover, and therefor deserves zero consideration for his beard conviction whatsoever. It is an embarrassment to the nation we are even having hearings on the subject, and an insult to people like you with honest convictions.

 

[shankster..]

Re: Beard Hearing

I completely agree KYPatriot. At the AFB near me, servicemen are required to wear a fluorescent safety vest anytime they ride a motorcycle on or off base. on or off duty. The reason? You are a military asset and they own your ass.

 

[yelton66]

Re: Beard Hearing



I hang a full-sized fleshlight off my belt for my religion. It's kind of like a sexual light saber for those who have achieved a spiritual level of sexual awareness. [/quote]


That's awesome

Him having the beard is but a small problem compared to the much larger PC feelings bullshit that is going down. Why do I have to be PC, why did the Army need to change, just because society changes does not mean the Military has to change.

It isn't even just my current unit, everywhere I go all I hear is whining and crying and words like fair. You want fairness go live with your mom, well I started ranting

 

[Switchblade]

Re: Beard Hearing

To refocus this back to the OP and the intended execution of the devil himself...
This asshole did this in time of war. He should have been placed against a wall and summarially shot within 30 days of his highly witnessed shooting of real American Troops. He is nothing more than a douchbag piece of shit Islamic Jihadist. Whether or not he is bearded or clean shaven is only one more reason to place him against that wall. Or maybe just cut his head off with a long dull knife...yeah, much better, I'll even do it if ya ask real nice

 

[mission_fail]

Re: Beard Hearing

If we let IED emplacers go in Afghanistan, of course there is going to be a pony show for an American citizen gone muslim extremist. As toughguy said, it's about twisting the law to your advantage, no matter how clear cut the case is. He should of been killed during his shooting spree but things don't always turn out for the better.

 

[UNREAL HENRY]

Re: Beard Hearing

Somebody send Chris Costa a gas mask so we can get to the bottum of this!