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Re: Penn State goes 0-2
I don't.
I do feel empathy for the kids at Penn State though. They are still being ficked: why these players have to pay for what people at the highest levels at PSU did, or more contemptible, did not do is still lost on me.
I don't.
I do feel empathy for the kids at Penn State though. They are still being ficked: why these players have to pay for what people at the highest levels at PSU did, or more contemptible, did not do is still lost on me.
Re: Penn State goes 0-2
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: queequeg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't.
I do feel empathy for the kids at Penn State though. They are still being ficked: why these players have to pay for what people at the highest levels at PSU did, or more contemptible, did not do is still lost on me. </div></div>
JoePa left a mess behind, for sure, and no, the kids didn't have a damned thing to do with it. It's unfortunate, but the penalties were assessed against the program and the university, of which they're a part. At least potential recruits for the near future will steer wide of PSU so as not to share in the situation.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: queequeg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't.
I do feel empathy for the kids at Penn State though. They are still being ficked: why these players have to pay for what people at the highest levels at PSU did, or more contemptible, did not do is still lost on me. </div></div>
JoePa left a mess behind, for sure, and no, the kids didn't have a damned thing to do with it. It's unfortunate, but the penalties were assessed against the program and the university, of which they're a part. At least potential recruits for the near future will steer wide of PSU so as not to share in the situation.
Re: Penn State goes 0-2
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Veer_G</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: queequeg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't.
I do feel empathy for the kids at Penn State though. They are still being ficked: why these players have to pay for what people at the highest levels at PSU did, or more contemptible, did not do is still lost on me. </div></div>
JoePa left a mess behind, for sure, and no, the kids didn't have a damned thing to do with it. It's unfortunate, but the penalties were assessed against the program and the university, of which they're a part. At least potential recruits for the near future will steer wide of PSU so as not to share in the situation. </div></div>
you kidding? it's penn state, they will be back. they have enough boosters to get things back on track. I already know the next chapter.. "It's time to forget, time to forgive, and time to heal"
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Veer_G</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: queequeg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't.
I do feel empathy for the kids at Penn State though. They are still being ficked: why these players have to pay for what people at the highest levels at PSU did, or more contemptible, did not do is still lost on me. </div></div>
JoePa left a mess behind, for sure, and no, the kids didn't have a damned thing to do with it. It's unfortunate, but the penalties were assessed against the program and the university, of which they're a part. At least potential recruits for the near future will steer wide of PSU so as not to share in the situation. </div></div>
you kidding? it's penn state, they will be back. they have enough boosters to get things back on track. I already know the next chapter.. "It's time to forget, time to forgive, and time to heal"
Re: Penn State goes 0-2
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EricCartmann</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Veer_G</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: queequeg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't.
I do feel empathy for the kids at Penn State though. They are still being ficked: why these players have to pay for what people at the highest levels at PSU did, or more contemptible, did not do is still lost on me. </div></div>
JoePa left a mess behind, for sure, and no, the kids didn't have a damned thing to do with it. It's unfortunate, but the penalties were assessed against the program and the university, of which they're a part. At least potential recruits for the near future will steer wide of PSU so as not to share in the situation. </div></div>
you kidding? it's penn state, they will be back. they have enough boosters to get things back on track. I already know the next chapter.. "It's time to forget, time to forgive, and time to heal"</div></div>
That's exactly what they said at SMU and look how they bounced back. Oh wait, they didn't they're has beens that haven't bounced back after 25 years. I don't see Penn State shrugging this off very easily. This is much more serious than a "pay to play" scandal.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EricCartmann</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Veer_G</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: queequeg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't.
I do feel empathy for the kids at Penn State though. They are still being ficked: why these players have to pay for what people at the highest levels at PSU did, or more contemptible, did not do is still lost on me. </div></div>
JoePa left a mess behind, for sure, and no, the kids didn't have a damned thing to do with it. It's unfortunate, but the penalties were assessed against the program and the university, of which they're a part. At least potential recruits for the near future will steer wide of PSU so as not to share in the situation. </div></div>
you kidding? it's penn state, they will be back. they have enough boosters to get things back on track. I already know the next chapter.. "It's time to forget, time to forgive, and time to heal"</div></div>
That's exactly what they said at SMU and look how they bounced back. Oh wait, they didn't they're has beens that haven't bounced back after 25 years. I don't see Penn State shrugging this off very easily. This is much more serious than a "pay to play" scandal.
Re: Penn State goes 0-2
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
That's exactly what they said at SMU and look how they bounced back. Oh wait, they didn't they're has beens that haven't bounced back after 25 years. I don't see Penn State shrugging this off very easily. This is much more serious than a "pay to play" scandal. </div></div>
I can give you 1.7 billion reasons why Penn State is not SMU.
Who said that about SMU? Whoever said that about SMU does not really understand the politics of College Football. SMU is a small time program, with a small student body, and no support system. The reason SMU got in trouble is because they did the same thing as the big boys, and they did it out in the open. SMU was beginning to start recruit Nationally (in the big boys turf).. and when you play with the big boys, you better be ready to play.
Total opposite of SMU you have Penn State, huge student body, huge support system. Penn State gets a couple hundred million a year from their boosters... they also have an endowment worth about $1.7 Billion! Can you figure out the 1.7 billion reasons?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
That's exactly what they said at SMU and look how they bounced back. Oh wait, they didn't they're has beens that haven't bounced back after 25 years. I don't see Penn State shrugging this off very easily. This is much more serious than a "pay to play" scandal. </div></div>
I can give you 1.7 billion reasons why Penn State is not SMU.
Who said that about SMU? Whoever said that about SMU does not really understand the politics of College Football. SMU is a small time program, with a small student body, and no support system. The reason SMU got in trouble is because they did the same thing as the big boys, and they did it out in the open. SMU was beginning to start recruit Nationally (in the big boys turf).. and when you play with the big boys, you better be ready to play.
Total opposite of SMU you have Penn State, huge student body, huge support system. Penn State gets a couple hundred million a year from their boosters... they also have an endowment worth about $1.7 Billion! Can you figure out the 1.7 billion reasons?
Re: Penn State goes 0-2
my bad, it's 1.7 billion, not 7 billion.. can you guys find it in your heart to forgive me?
my bad, it's 1.7 billion, not 7 billion.. can you guys find it in your heart to forgive me?
Re: Penn State goes 0-2
Eric,
I'm going to point out where you're incorrect on your assumptions, and why those 1.7 billion reasons why PSU is not SMU are irrelevant.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EricCartmann</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I can give you 1.7 billion reasons why Penn State is not SMU.
Who said that about SMU?
<span style="font-weight: bold">No one mentioned SMU by name. Why SMU was compared is because it was an extremely successful and historic program that was presummed to bounce back from a scandal. </span>
Whoever said that about SMU does not really understand the politics of College Football. SMU is a small time program, with a small student body, and no support system.
<span style="font-weight: bold"> Sorry Eric, this shows your ignorance. We are not talking about SMU now, we're talking about pre-death penalty SMU. The second most successful program in the SWC behind Texas. SMU posted a record of 45-5-1 from 1980–1984, which was the highest win percentage (0.892) in Division 1-A over that span. That's not a "small time program". It's also one of the "richest" schools with a HUGE alumni support sytem, which was obviously a benefit and its demise. And the size of the student body is irrelevant as well. USC (Southern Cal) only has 17K undergrads. Stanford has only 7K. Are you going to say those aren't successful programs? </span>
The reason SMU got in trouble is because they did the same thing as the big boys, and they did it out in the open. SMU was begining to start recruit Nationally (in the big boys turf).. and when you play with the big boys, you better be ready to play.
<span style="font-weight: bold"> You're right and wrong here. They did get in trouble because their arrogance prevented prudence in doing the exact same thing everyone else was doing however where you're incorrect is they didn't just "start" national recruiting, SMU was recruiting nationally since the mid-70s although at the time there was very little effort to leave Texas. Oh, and SMU had the power and alumni to play, anyone from Texas knows that.</span>
Total opposite of SMU you have Penn State, huge student body, huge support system. Penn State gets a couple hundred million a year from their boosters... they also have an endowment worth about $1.7 Billion! Can you figure out the 1.7 billion reasons?
<span style="font-weight: bold">Nope, I can't. Subtract PSU's money from 1987-2012 and then let's compare them. Again, you have the richest private school in Texas and you want us to believe that they couldn't play on the same turf as PSU? And the student body size matters how?
SMU had/has to overcome their scandal and I don't see them doing so in the near future. PSU has to overcome their scandal as well and unfortunately their scandal has a huge negative stigma associated with it. Now I will give you the fact that SMU's scandal involved the entire program and PSU's scandal involves a handful of personnel. But I, for one, will not hold my breath to see how long it takes PSU to come back.</span></div></div>
Eric,
I'm going to point out where you're incorrect on your assumptions, and why those 1.7 billion reasons why PSU is not SMU are irrelevant.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EricCartmann</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I can give you 1.7 billion reasons why Penn State is not SMU.
Who said that about SMU?
<span style="font-weight: bold">No one mentioned SMU by name. Why SMU was compared is because it was an extremely successful and historic program that was presummed to bounce back from a scandal. </span>
Whoever said that about SMU does not really understand the politics of College Football. SMU is a small time program, with a small student body, and no support system.
<span style="font-weight: bold"> Sorry Eric, this shows your ignorance. We are not talking about SMU now, we're talking about pre-death penalty SMU. The second most successful program in the SWC behind Texas. SMU posted a record of 45-5-1 from 1980–1984, which was the highest win percentage (0.892) in Division 1-A over that span. That's not a "small time program". It's also one of the "richest" schools with a HUGE alumni support sytem, which was obviously a benefit and its demise. And the size of the student body is irrelevant as well. USC (Southern Cal) only has 17K undergrads. Stanford has only 7K. Are you going to say those aren't successful programs? </span>
The reason SMU got in trouble is because they did the same thing as the big boys, and they did it out in the open. SMU was begining to start recruit Nationally (in the big boys turf).. and when you play with the big boys, you better be ready to play.
<span style="font-weight: bold"> You're right and wrong here. They did get in trouble because their arrogance prevented prudence in doing the exact same thing everyone else was doing however where you're incorrect is they didn't just "start" national recruiting, SMU was recruiting nationally since the mid-70s although at the time there was very little effort to leave Texas. Oh, and SMU had the power and alumni to play, anyone from Texas knows that.</span>
Total opposite of SMU you have Penn State, huge student body, huge support system. Penn State gets a couple hundred million a year from their boosters... they also have an endowment worth about $1.7 Billion! Can you figure out the 1.7 billion reasons?
<span style="font-weight: bold">Nope, I can't. Subtract PSU's money from 1987-2012 and then let's compare them. Again, you have the richest private school in Texas and you want us to believe that they couldn't play on the same turf as PSU? And the student body size matters how?
SMU had/has to overcome their scandal and I don't see them doing so in the near future. PSU has to overcome their scandal as well and unfortunately their scandal has a huge negative stigma associated with it. Now I will give you the fact that SMU's scandal involved the entire program and PSU's scandal involves a handful of personnel. But I, for one, will not hold my breath to see how long it takes PSU to come back.</span></div></div>
Re: Penn State goes 0-2
It's Karma coming back around..... I don't feel bad for them
It's Karma coming back around..... I don't feel bad for them
Re: Penn State goes 0-2
The political climate was different back then. The Money is too great now. The NCAA back then did not care if SMU fails. These days the NCAA wants to see Penn State succeed.
The political climate was different back then. The Money is too great now. The NCAA back then did not care if SMU fails. These days the NCAA wants to see Penn State succeed.
Re: Penn State goes 0-2
Please don't hang Cartmann because he does not give the news you sheep want to hear.. it is what it is, I have no control in any of this.
Please don't hang Cartmann because he does not give the news you sheep want to hear.. it is what it is, I have no control in any of this.
Re: Penn State goes 0-2
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EricCartmann</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Please don't hang Cartmann because he does not give the news you sheep want to hear.. it is what it is, I have no control in any of this.</div></div>
Personally, I am far from a sheep and have first hand knowledge of this.
Your cynicism betrays your ignorance. Please enlighten us as to what makes you an expert in this category?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EricCartmann</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Please don't hang Cartmann because he does not give the news you sheep want to hear.. it is what it is, I have no control in any of this.</div></div>
Personally, I am far from a sheep and have first hand knowledge of this.
Your cynicism betrays your ignorance. Please enlighten us as to what makes you an expert in this category?
Re: Penn State goes 0-2
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EricCartmann</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Please don't hang Cartmann because he does not give the news you sheep want to hear.. it is what it is, I have no control in any of this.</div></div>
Personally, I am far from a sheep and have first hand knowledge of this.
Your cynicism betrays your ignorance. Please enlighten us as to what makes you an expert in this category? </div></div>
You have first hand knowledge of what? You can see the future?
Are you really blind? Reality is what is is.
1) Penn State has some of the best coaches can buy, not one coach left.
2) If you look at the 2013 Commit list, you will see there are already 4 4-star recruits that committed to Penn State for 2013. Keep in mind, National Signing Day is not till Feb 2013. So guys are already committing early.
http://rivals.yahoo.com/footballrecruiting/football/recruiting/commitments/2013/bwi-34
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EricCartmann</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Please don't hang Cartmann because he does not give the news you sheep want to hear.. it is what it is, I have no control in any of this.</div></div>
Personally, I am far from a sheep and have first hand knowledge of this.
Your cynicism betrays your ignorance. Please enlighten us as to what makes you an expert in this category? </div></div>
You have first hand knowledge of what? You can see the future?
Are you really blind? Reality is what is is.
1) Penn State has some of the best coaches can buy, not one coach left.
2) If you look at the 2013 Commit list, you will see there are already 4 4-star recruits that committed to Penn State for 2013. Keep in mind, National Signing Day is not till Feb 2013. So guys are already committing early.
http://rivals.yahoo.com/footballrecruiting/football/recruiting/commitments/2013/bwi-34
Re: Penn State goes 0-2
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EricCartmann</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Reality is what is is.
</div></div>
Dude, I just had a Bill Clinton flashback.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EricCartmann</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Reality is what is is.
</div></div>
Dude, I just had a Bill Clinton flashback.
Re: Penn State goes 0-2
You have first hand knowledge of what? You can see the future?
<span style="font-weight: bold">No, I have a friend that works for the NCAA. So I don't have knowledge of the future, I have knowledge of the corporate culture and mentality of the NCAA.</span>
Are you really blind? Reality is what is is.
<span style="font-weight: bold">I've got some bad news; your delusional world is not reality. </span>
1) Penn State has some of the best coaches can buy, not one coach left.
<span style="font-weight: bold">I guffawed at this. "Best coaches"? But whose standards and definition? Coaches that are glad to have a job is about it. </span>
2) If you look at the 2013 Commit list, you will see there are already 4 4-star recruits that committed to Penn State for 2013. Keep in mind, National Signing Day is not till Feb 2013. So guys are already committing early.
http://rivals.yahoo.com/footballrecruiting/football/recruiting/commitments/2013/bwi-34
<span style="font-weight: bold">Again, I laughed at your ignorance. 4-4 star recruits? I'm supposed to get chub over that? That's mediocre. Just about every team in the top three conferences can lay claim to that statistic. In fact, in the SEC they go by 5-star recruits, not 4-star. Second, "committing" to PSU doesn't mean squat. Come talk to me AFTER national signing day and tell me who went where. You'll get some local home town boys that wont want to leave Pennsylvania but any kid wanting a shot at a national title or even a winning season will put State College in their rear view mirror.
Thanks for being entertaining though. </span>
You have first hand knowledge of what? You can see the future?
<span style="font-weight: bold">No, I have a friend that works for the NCAA. So I don't have knowledge of the future, I have knowledge of the corporate culture and mentality of the NCAA.</span>
Are you really blind? Reality is what is is.
<span style="font-weight: bold">I've got some bad news; your delusional world is not reality. </span>
1) Penn State has some of the best coaches can buy, not one coach left.
<span style="font-weight: bold">I guffawed at this. "Best coaches"? But whose standards and definition? Coaches that are glad to have a job is about it. </span>
2) If you look at the 2013 Commit list, you will see there are already 4 4-star recruits that committed to Penn State for 2013. Keep in mind, National Signing Day is not till Feb 2013. So guys are already committing early.
http://rivals.yahoo.com/footballrecruiting/football/recruiting/commitments/2013/bwi-34
<span style="font-weight: bold">Again, I laughed at your ignorance. 4-4 star recruits? I'm supposed to get chub over that? That's mediocre. Just about every team in the top three conferences can lay claim to that statistic. In fact, in the SEC they go by 5-star recruits, not 4-star. Second, "committing" to PSU doesn't mean squat. Come talk to me AFTER national signing day and tell me who went where. You'll get some local home town boys that wont want to leave Pennsylvania but any kid wanting a shot at a national title or even a winning season will put State College in their rear view mirror.
Thanks for being entertaining though. </span>
Re: Penn State goes 0-2
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="font-weight: bold">No, I have a friend that works for the NCAA. So I don't have knowledge of the future, I have knowledge of the corporate culture and mentality of the NCAA.</span>
</div></div>
and she does not think Penn State will fully recover? What does she do for the NCAA may I ask?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="font-weight: bold">No, I have a friend that works for the NCAA. So I don't have knowledge of the future, I have knowledge of the corporate culture and mentality of the NCAA.</span>
</div></div>
and she does not think Penn State will fully recover? What does she do for the NCAA may I ask?
Re: Penn State goes 0-2
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="font-weight: bold">I've got some bad news; your delusional world is not reality. </span>
</div></div>
Delusional because I think Penn State will come out of this? Penn State Football is big time, I don't think I am going out on a limb or delusional because I think they will make a full recovery. Huge Student Body with a huge booster support. I say in 4 years they will be right in the thick of things.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="font-weight: bold">I've got some bad news; your delusional world is not reality. </span>
</div></div>
Delusional because I think Penn State will come out of this? Penn State Football is big time, I don't think I am going out on a limb or delusional because I think they will make a full recovery. Huge Student Body with a huge booster support. I say in 4 years they will be right in the thick of things.
Re: Penn State goes 0-2
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="font-weight: bold">Again, I laughed at your ignorance. 4-4 star recruits? I'm supposed to get chub over that? That's mediocre. Just about every team in the top three conferences can lay claim to that statistic. In fact, in the SEC they go by 5-star recruits, not 4-star. Second, "committing" to PSU doesn't mean squat. Come talk to me AFTER national signing day and tell me who went where. You'll get some local home town boys that wont want to leave Pennsylvania but any kid wanting a shot at a national title or even a winning season will put State College in their rear view mirror.
Thanks for being entertaining though. </span> </div></div>
OK Smart Guy, please discuss...
Ignorant because Penn State has just as much 4-star recruits as say Stanford, Nebraska, and Michigan State?
SEC gets all the 5 star recruits you say? Given any year, there are only like 25 5-star recruits each year, and doubt all of them go to the SEC. As a matter of fact, we can actually go back and look. Should we start?
History has shown being a 5-star recruit is over-rated. Just go back and look at say the class of 2007, and you will see few big names. http://rivals.yahoo.com/footballrecruiting/football/recruiting/rankings/rank-rivals100/2007
There is enough talent to go around for everyone, guys like Urban Meyers built solid programs around a base of 3 star recruits with a few 4 mixed in.
Penn State has the support system to get back on track. 4 years to be a top 15 program again is very likely.
Please Discuss
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="font-weight: bold">Again, I laughed at your ignorance. 4-4 star recruits? I'm supposed to get chub over that? That's mediocre. Just about every team in the top three conferences can lay claim to that statistic. In fact, in the SEC they go by 5-star recruits, not 4-star. Second, "committing" to PSU doesn't mean squat. Come talk to me AFTER national signing day and tell me who went where. You'll get some local home town boys that wont want to leave Pennsylvania but any kid wanting a shot at a national title or even a winning season will put State College in their rear view mirror.
Thanks for being entertaining though. </span> </div></div>
OK Smart Guy, please discuss...
Ignorant because Penn State has just as much 4-star recruits as say Stanford, Nebraska, and Michigan State?
SEC gets all the 5 star recruits you say? Given any year, there are only like 25 5-star recruits each year, and doubt all of them go to the SEC. As a matter of fact, we can actually go back and look. Should we start?
History has shown being a 5-star recruit is over-rated. Just go back and look at say the class of 2007, and you will see few big names. http://rivals.yahoo.com/footballrecruiting/football/recruiting/rankings/rank-rivals100/2007
There is enough talent to go around for everyone, guys like Urban Meyers built solid programs around a base of 3 star recruits with a few 4 mixed in.
Penn State has the support system to get back on track. 4 years to be a top 15 program again is very likely.
Please Discuss
Re: Penn State goes 0-2
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EricCartmann</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="font-weight: bold">No, I have a friend that works for the NCAA. So I don't have knowledge of the future, I have knowledge of the corporate culture and mentality of the NCAA.</span>
</div></div>
and she does not think Penn State will fully recover? What does she do for the NCAA may I ask?</div></div>
Why do you say "she"?
No one has a crystal ball and can guarantee a recovery, which was my original point. Your original definitive statement of "you kidding? it's penn state, they will be back" cannot be guaranteed or promised. Will they make it back, very likely. Is it possible they don't make it back or it take a few classes to recover? That's a possibility as well. There are many contributing factors and no one can guarantee what will happen. You forget Jo Pa was Penn State Football. Now that he's gone they will struggle to build another, different, identity.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EricCartmann</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="font-weight: bold">I've got some bad news; your delusional world is not reality. </span>
</div></div>
Delusional because I think Penn State will come out of this? Penn State Football is big time, I don't think I am going out on a limb or delusional because I think they will make a full recovery. Huge Student Body with a huge booster support. I say in 4 years they will be right in the thick of things.</div></div>
No, delusional because you referred to us who disagreed with you as "sheep" as if ESPN was our only source of college football information. Also because your brash statements of PSU having the best coaches and a few 4 star recruits "committing" equated to a guaranteed comeback.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EricCartmann</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="font-weight: bold">No, I have a friend that works for the NCAA. So I don't have knowledge of the future, I have knowledge of the corporate culture and mentality of the NCAA.</span>
</div></div>
and she does not think Penn State will fully recover? What does she do for the NCAA may I ask?</div></div>
Why do you say "she"?
No one has a crystal ball and can guarantee a recovery, which was my original point. Your original definitive statement of "you kidding? it's penn state, they will be back" cannot be guaranteed or promised. Will they make it back, very likely. Is it possible they don't make it back or it take a few classes to recover? That's a possibility as well. There are many contributing factors and no one can guarantee what will happen. You forget Jo Pa was Penn State Football. Now that he's gone they will struggle to build another, different, identity.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EricCartmann</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="font-weight: bold">I've got some bad news; your delusional world is not reality. </span>
</div></div>
Delusional because I think Penn State will come out of this? Penn State Football is big time, I don't think I am going out on a limb or delusional because I think they will make a full recovery. Huge Student Body with a huge booster support. I say in 4 years they will be right in the thick of things.</div></div>
No, delusional because you referred to us who disagreed with you as "sheep" as if ESPN was our only source of college football information. Also because your brash statements of PSU having the best coaches and a few 4 star recruits "committing" equated to a guaranteed comeback.
Re: Penn State goes 0-2
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="font-weight: bold">Again, I laughed at your ignorance. 4-4 star recruits? I'm supposed to get chub over that? That's mediocre. Just about every team in the top three conferences can lay claim to that statistic. In fact, in the SEC they go by 5-star recruits, not 4-star. Second, "committing" to PSU doesn't mean squat. Come talk to me AFTER national signing day and tell me who went where. You'll get some local home town boys that wont want to leave Pennsylvania but any kid wanting a shot at a national title or even a winning season will put State College in their rear view mirror.
Thanks for being entertaining though. </span> </div></div>
OK Smart Guy, please discuss...
Ignorant because Penn State has just as much 4-star recruits as say Stanford, Nebraska, and Michigan State?
<span style="font-weight: bold">No, but you've answered your own question. Ignorant because PSU's four star recruits are no better than everyone else's four star recruits. Therefore PSU's four stars are nothing special. </span>
SEC gets all the 5 star recruits you say? Given any year, there are only like 25 5-star recruits each year, and doubt all of them go to the SEC. As a matter of fact, we can actually go back and look. Should we start?
<span style="font-weight: bold">Please read what I wrote. I did not say the SEC gets all the five star recruits. I said "in the SEC they go by 5-star recruits" meaning no one gets real excited about the four star recruits as they are the norm rather than the exceptioin.</span>
History has shown being a 5-star recruit is over-rated. Just go back and look at say the class of 2007, and you will see few big names. http://rivals.yahoo.com/footballrecruiting/football/recruiting/rankings/rank-rivals100/2007
<span style="font-weight: bold">So if five star recruits are overrated we're supposed to believe the assessment of all four star recruits is dead-nuts accurate? If five star recruits can be overrated so can four stars. That includes PSU's and everyone elses. And why do you need to go back five years ago to 2007? Let's see where the top recruits went for the last three years. </span>
There is enough talent to go around for everyone, guys like Urban Meyers built solid programs around a base of 3 star recruits with a few 4 mixed in.
<span style="font-weight: bold">Exactly, so again, what makes PSU's four star recruits so special? What about them ensures PSU's come back? </span>
Penn State has the support system to get back on track. 4 years to be a top 15 program again is very likely.
<span style="font-weight: bold">Absolutely agree. But here's the difference. In this last statement you said "very likely", in your original statement you acted as if it was a done deal. And although I will readily agree they will eventually make it back (although I'll say more than 4 years) there is a distinct possibilty this stigma stays with them for much longer. </span>
Please Discuss
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="font-weight: bold">Again, I laughed at your ignorance. 4-4 star recruits? I'm supposed to get chub over that? That's mediocre. Just about every team in the top three conferences can lay claim to that statistic. In fact, in the SEC they go by 5-star recruits, not 4-star. Second, "committing" to PSU doesn't mean squat. Come talk to me AFTER national signing day and tell me who went where. You'll get some local home town boys that wont want to leave Pennsylvania but any kid wanting a shot at a national title or even a winning season will put State College in their rear view mirror.
Thanks for being entertaining though. </span> </div></div>
OK Smart Guy, please discuss...
Ignorant because Penn State has just as much 4-star recruits as say Stanford, Nebraska, and Michigan State?
<span style="font-weight: bold">No, but you've answered your own question. Ignorant because PSU's four star recruits are no better than everyone else's four star recruits. Therefore PSU's four stars are nothing special. </span>
SEC gets all the 5 star recruits you say? Given any year, there are only like 25 5-star recruits each year, and doubt all of them go to the SEC. As a matter of fact, we can actually go back and look. Should we start?
<span style="font-weight: bold">Please read what I wrote. I did not say the SEC gets all the five star recruits. I said "in the SEC they go by 5-star recruits" meaning no one gets real excited about the four star recruits as they are the norm rather than the exceptioin.</span>
History has shown being a 5-star recruit is over-rated. Just go back and look at say the class of 2007, and you will see few big names. http://rivals.yahoo.com/footballrecruiting/football/recruiting/rankings/rank-rivals100/2007
<span style="font-weight: bold">So if five star recruits are overrated we're supposed to believe the assessment of all four star recruits is dead-nuts accurate? If five star recruits can be overrated so can four stars. That includes PSU's and everyone elses. And why do you need to go back five years ago to 2007? Let's see where the top recruits went for the last three years. </span>
There is enough talent to go around for everyone, guys like Urban Meyers built solid programs around a base of 3 star recruits with a few 4 mixed in.
<span style="font-weight: bold">Exactly, so again, what makes PSU's four star recruits so special? What about them ensures PSU's come back? </span>
Penn State has the support system to get back on track. 4 years to be a top 15 program again is very likely.
<span style="font-weight: bold">Absolutely agree. But here's the difference. In this last statement you said "very likely", in your original statement you acted as if it was a done deal. And although I will readily agree they will eventually make it back (although I'll say more than 4 years) there is a distinct possibilty this stigma stays with them for much longer. </span>
Please Discuss
Re: Penn State goes 0-2
Penn State could still beat Auburn this year
Penn State could still beat Auburn this year
Re: Penn State goes 0-2
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="font-weight: bold">No, but you've answered your own question. Ignorant because PSU's four star recruits are no better than everyone else's four star recruits. Therefore PSU's four stars are nothing special. </span>
</div></div>
So for a program on the down, and under suspension, they are getting solid recruits to commit, recruits just as good as Stanford and Michigan State. Michigan State never gets the jaw dropping recruiting class, bu yet they are a top 15 program this year.
So the comeback might be even faster than I thought. yeah I am the idiot! hahaha.
I love talking to smart guys like yourself with friends.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="font-weight: bold">No, but you've answered your own question. Ignorant because PSU's four star recruits are no better than everyone else's four star recruits. Therefore PSU's four stars are nothing special. </span>
</div></div>
So for a program on the down, and under suspension, they are getting solid recruits to commit, recruits just as good as Stanford and Michigan State. Michigan State never gets the jaw dropping recruiting class, bu yet they are a top 15 program this year.
So the comeback might be even faster than I thought. yeah I am the idiot! hahaha.
I love talking to smart guys like yourself with friends.
Re: Penn State goes 0-2
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="font-weight: bold">Please read what I wrote. I did not say the SEC gets all the five star recruits. I said "in the SEC they go by 5-star recruits" meaning no one gets real excited about the four star recruits as they are the norm rather than the exceptioin.</span>
</div></div>
Smartguy,
I think everyone gets excited for 5 star recruits, and not just SEC teams.
I would also beg to differ about no one getting real excited by 4 star recruits. There are only about 300 recruits each year that is 4 star and above. Considering each school is allowed 30 scholarships, that means if 10 of the Big Boy teams filled their slots.. that there is 300. You do know there are 120 FCS teams right? If a team lands say 10 4-star recruits, well that there is an outstanding class and may go places. Considering Penn State has 4 4-star commits already (it's only Sept).. I would have to say recruiting wise they are not doing too bad. That is right now.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="font-weight: bold">Please read what I wrote. I did not say the SEC gets all the five star recruits. I said "in the SEC they go by 5-star recruits" meaning no one gets real excited about the four star recruits as they are the norm rather than the exceptioin.</span>
</div></div>
Smartguy,
I think everyone gets excited for 5 star recruits, and not just SEC teams.
I would also beg to differ about no one getting real excited by 4 star recruits. There are only about 300 recruits each year that is 4 star and above. Considering each school is allowed 30 scholarships, that means if 10 of the Big Boy teams filled their slots.. that there is 300. You do know there are 120 FCS teams right? If a team lands say 10 4-star recruits, well that there is an outstanding class and may go places. Considering Penn State has 4 4-star commits already (it's only Sept).. I would have to say recruiting wise they are not doing too bad. That is right now.
Re: Penn State goes 0-2
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="font-weight: bold">So if five star recruits are overrated we're supposed to believe the assessment of all four star recruits is dead-nuts accurate? If five star recruits can be overrated so can four stars. That includes PSU's and everyone elses. And why do you need to go back five years ago to 2007? Let's see where the top recruits went for the last three years. </span>
</div></div>
Smartguy,
It's a numbers game. I myself thing that 10 4-star recruits are just as good as 5 5star recruits + 5 3star recruits.
Very few 3 star recruits rise up to National prominence, but plenty of 4 star recruits have.
I chose 2007 at random, I will let you pick a year, any year.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="font-weight: bold">So if five star recruits are overrated we're supposed to believe the assessment of all four star recruits is dead-nuts accurate? If five star recruits can be overrated so can four stars. That includes PSU's and everyone elses. And why do you need to go back five years ago to 2007? Let's see where the top recruits went for the last three years. </span>
</div></div>
Smartguy,
It's a numbers game. I myself thing that 10 4-star recruits are just as good as 5 5star recruits + 5 3star recruits.
Very few 3 star recruits rise up to National prominence, but plenty of 4 star recruits have.
I chose 2007 at random, I will let you pick a year, any year.
Re: Penn State goes 0-2
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="font-weight: bold">Exactly, so again, what makes PSU's four star recruits so special? What about them ensures PSU's come back? </span>
<span style="font-weight: bold">Absolutely agree. But here's the difference. In this last statement you said "very likely", in your original statement you acted as if it was a done deal. And although I will readily agree they will eventually make it back (although I'll say more than 4 years) there is a distinct possibilty this stigma stays with them for much longer. </span>
</div></div>
Smartguy,
Penn State will get theirs, and they have the funds to get a good coach. The current guy, O'Brian might even be the guy, if not, they have the funds to get a quality HC and coaching staff.
Also Smartguy, I think you are reading stuff from me that is not there. If you want me to clarify: Top 5 is a remote possibility, but a top 15 is very likely. I never said a top 5 program was a done deal, they will were not that good before the scandal. I always saw Penn State as a top 20 program, and they will at the very least get back to that... maybe sooner than later.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="font-weight: bold">Exactly, so again, what makes PSU's four star recruits so special? What about them ensures PSU's come back? </span>
<span style="font-weight: bold">Absolutely agree. But here's the difference. In this last statement you said "very likely", in your original statement you acted as if it was a done deal. And although I will readily agree they will eventually make it back (although I'll say more than 4 years) there is a distinct possibilty this stigma stays with them for much longer. </span>
</div></div>
Smartguy,
Penn State will get theirs, and they have the funds to get a good coach. The current guy, O'Brian might even be the guy, if not, they have the funds to get a quality HC and coaching staff.
Also Smartguy, I think you are reading stuff from me that is not there. If you want me to clarify: Top 5 is a remote possibility, but a top 15 is very likely. I never said a top 5 program was a done deal, they will were not that good before the scandal. I always saw Penn State as a top 20 program, and they will at the very least get back to that... maybe sooner than later.
Re: Penn State goes 0-2
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EricCartmann</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="font-weight: bold">No, but you've answered your own question. Ignorant because PSU's four star recruits are no better than everyone else's four star recruits. Therefore PSU's four stars are nothing special. </span>
</div></div>
So for a program on the down, and under suspension, they are getting solid recruits to commit, recruits just as good as Stanford and Michigan State. Michigan State never gets the jaw dropping recruiting class, bu yet they are a top 15 program this year.
I love talking to smart guys like yourself with friends.</div></div>
Dumbguy,
Michigan State? Who are they. A consistent also-ran? They barely squeezed by Boise State and beat a powerhouse (sarcasm) Central Michigan. Come talk to me about MS in about 6 weeks.
Again, a "commitment" by a recruit doesn't mean a thing. You know, recruits are allowed to change their mind and nothing matters until signing day. Do you also realize that if these 4 star recruits are so awesome every other school will be going after them? Their "commitment" does not preclude other schools from trying to recruit them.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EricCartmann</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="font-weight: bold">No, but you've answered your own question. Ignorant because PSU's four star recruits are no better than everyone else's four star recruits. Therefore PSU's four stars are nothing special. </span>
</div></div>
So for a program on the down, and under suspension, they are getting solid recruits to commit, recruits just as good as Stanford and Michigan State. Michigan State never gets the jaw dropping recruiting class, bu yet they are a top 15 program this year.
I love talking to smart guys like yourself with friends.</div></div>
Dumbguy,
Michigan State? Who are they. A consistent also-ran? They barely squeezed by Boise State and beat a powerhouse (sarcasm) Central Michigan. Come talk to me about MS in about 6 weeks.
Again, a "commitment" by a recruit doesn't mean a thing. You know, recruits are allowed to change their mind and nothing matters until signing day. Do you also realize that if these 4 star recruits are so awesome every other school will be going after them? Their "commitment" does not preclude other schools from trying to recruit them.
Re: Penn State goes 0-2
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EricCartmann</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="font-weight: bold">Please read what I wrote. I did not say the SEC gets all the five star recruits. I said "in the SEC they go by 5-star recruits" meaning no one gets real excited about the four star recruits as they are the norm rather than the exceptioin.</span>
</div></div>
Smartguy,
I think everyone gets excited for 5 star recruits, and not just SEC teams.
I would also beg to differ about no one getting real excited by 4 star recruits. There are only about 300 recruits each year that is 4 star and above. Considering each school is allowed 30 scholarships, that means if 10 of the Big Boy teams filled their slots.. that there is 300. You do know there are 120 FCS teams right? If a team lands say 10 4-star recruits, well that there is an outstanding class and may go places. Considering Penn State has 4 4-star commits already (it's only Sept).. I would have to say recruiting wise they are not doing too bad. That is right now.</div></div>
Dumbguy,
Everyone gets excited about 5 star recruits, but only the top echelon, i.e. the SEC, have a realistic chance at getting these recruits consistently. Please post a link showing who the 5 star recruits from 2010-2011-2012's recruiting class signed with.
120 FCS teams? Seriously? With the very few exceptions do you honestly feel that a 4 and 5 star recruit are going to even consider a non-BCS school? There are 6 BCS conferences of which 2 (ACC, Big East) are a joke. So that leaves 46 schools that have a realistic chance of getting those recruits.
And where do you get 30 scholarships? Div. 1 schools are allowed up to 85 scholarships per team. So the wealth isn't going to be as spread as you predict.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EricCartmann</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="font-weight: bold">Please read what I wrote. I did not say the SEC gets all the five star recruits. I said "in the SEC they go by 5-star recruits" meaning no one gets real excited about the four star recruits as they are the norm rather than the exceptioin.</span>
</div></div>
Smartguy,
I think everyone gets excited for 5 star recruits, and not just SEC teams.
I would also beg to differ about no one getting real excited by 4 star recruits. There are only about 300 recruits each year that is 4 star and above. Considering each school is allowed 30 scholarships, that means if 10 of the Big Boy teams filled their slots.. that there is 300. You do know there are 120 FCS teams right? If a team lands say 10 4-star recruits, well that there is an outstanding class and may go places. Considering Penn State has 4 4-star commits already (it's only Sept).. I would have to say recruiting wise they are not doing too bad. That is right now.</div></div>
Dumbguy,
Everyone gets excited about 5 star recruits, but only the top echelon, i.e. the SEC, have a realistic chance at getting these recruits consistently. Please post a link showing who the 5 star recruits from 2010-2011-2012's recruiting class signed with.
120 FCS teams? Seriously? With the very few exceptions do you honestly feel that a 4 and 5 star recruit are going to even consider a non-BCS school? There are 6 BCS conferences of which 2 (ACC, Big East) are a joke. So that leaves 46 schools that have a realistic chance of getting those recruits.
And where do you get 30 scholarships? Div. 1 schools are allowed up to 85 scholarships per team. So the wealth isn't going to be as spread as you predict.
Re: Penn State goes 0-2
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EricCartmann</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="font-weight: bold">So if five star recruits are overrated we're supposed to believe the assessment of all four star recruits is dead-nuts accurate? If five star recruits can be overrated so can four stars. That includes PSU's and everyone elses. And why do you need to go back five years ago to 2007? Let's see where the top recruits went for the last three years. </span>
</div></div>
Smartguy,
It's a numbers game. I myself thing that 10 4-star recruits are just as good as 5 5star recruits + 5 3star recruits.
Very few 3 star recruits rise up to National prominence, but plenty of 4 star recruits have.
I chose 2007 at random, I will let you pick a year, any year.</div></div>
Dumbguy,
So we finally come down to the crux of the matter, your opinion. You can "think" that 10 4 stars are just as good a 5 + 3 stars but until you are a college recruiter, I don't think either of our opinions matter. Very few three stars rise to national prominence? What defines national prominence? The NFL? Playing for a top school? Can you be more specific? Because I know that every successful top-tier college player was not necessarily a four+ star recruit.
I pick 2010-2012 for my year span. Please pick from there.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EricCartmann</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="font-weight: bold">So if five star recruits are overrated we're supposed to believe the assessment of all four star recruits is dead-nuts accurate? If five star recruits can be overrated so can four stars. That includes PSU's and everyone elses. And why do you need to go back five years ago to 2007? Let's see where the top recruits went for the last three years. </span>
</div></div>
Smartguy,
It's a numbers game. I myself thing that 10 4-star recruits are just as good as 5 5star recruits + 5 3star recruits.
Very few 3 star recruits rise up to National prominence, but plenty of 4 star recruits have.
I chose 2007 at random, I will let you pick a year, any year.</div></div>
Dumbguy,
So we finally come down to the crux of the matter, your opinion. You can "think" that 10 4 stars are just as good a 5 + 3 stars but until you are a college recruiter, I don't think either of our opinions matter. Very few three stars rise to national prominence? What defines national prominence? The NFL? Playing for a top school? Can you be more specific? Because I know that every successful top-tier college player was not necessarily a four+ star recruit.
I pick 2010-2012 for my year span. Please pick from there.
Re: Penn State goes 0-2
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EricCartmann</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="font-weight: bold">Exactly, so again, what makes PSU's four star recruits so special? What about them ensures PSU's come back? </span>
<span style="font-weight: bold">Absolutely agree. But here's the difference. In this last statement you said "very likely", in your original statement you acted as if it was a done deal. And although I will readily agree they will eventually make it back (although I'll say more than 4 years) there is a distinct possibilty this stigma stays with them for much longer. </span>
</div></div>
Smartguy,
Penn State will get theirs, and they have the funds to get a good coach. The current guy, O'Brian might even be the guy, if not, they have the funds to get a quality HC and coaching staff.
Also Smartguy, I think you are reading stuff from me that is not there. If you want me to clarify: Top 5 is a remote possibility, but a top 15 is very likely. I never said a top 5 program was a done deal, they will were not that good before the scandal. I always saw Penn State as a top 20 program, and they will at the very least get back to that... maybe sooner than later.</div></div>
I'm not reading anything into what you're saying. You basically guaranteed a PSU comeback. I basically said don't be so quick to guarantee that. Your "clarification" here should have been your stated position from the beginning and it would have been a different story. And given the fact that of the 46 BCS teams, half are usually mediocre, top 25 isn't really that impressive to me.
Personally, I hope PSU bounces back. I wanted them to be more of a powerhouse before the scandal as it is a storied program. But I think that despite their alumni, and a decent coaching staff and their deep pockets, they are going to have a hard time climbing back from this scandal. This is more than a booster buying a car or a house, this is a scandal whose subject is repulsive and a horrible stigma. That may be their biggest challenge in overcoming that.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EricCartmann</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="font-weight: bold">Exactly, so again, what makes PSU's four star recruits so special? What about them ensures PSU's come back? </span>
<span style="font-weight: bold">Absolutely agree. But here's the difference. In this last statement you said "very likely", in your original statement you acted as if it was a done deal. And although I will readily agree they will eventually make it back (although I'll say more than 4 years) there is a distinct possibilty this stigma stays with them for much longer. </span>
</div></div>
Smartguy,
Penn State will get theirs, and they have the funds to get a good coach. The current guy, O'Brian might even be the guy, if not, they have the funds to get a quality HC and coaching staff.
Also Smartguy, I think you are reading stuff from me that is not there. If you want me to clarify: Top 5 is a remote possibility, but a top 15 is very likely. I never said a top 5 program was a done deal, they will were not that good before the scandal. I always saw Penn State as a top 20 program, and they will at the very least get back to that... maybe sooner than later.</div></div>
I'm not reading anything into what you're saying. You basically guaranteed a PSU comeback. I basically said don't be so quick to guarantee that. Your "clarification" here should have been your stated position from the beginning and it would have been a different story. And given the fact that of the 46 BCS teams, half are usually mediocre, top 25 isn't really that impressive to me.
Personally, I hope PSU bounces back. I wanted them to be more of a powerhouse before the scandal as it is a storied program. But I think that despite their alumni, and a decent coaching staff and their deep pockets, they are going to have a hard time climbing back from this scandal. This is more than a booster buying a car or a house, this is a scandal whose subject is repulsive and a horrible stigma. That may be their biggest challenge in overcoming that.
Re: Penn State goes 0-2
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Dumbguy,
Michigan State? Who are they. A consistent also-ran? They barely squeezed by Boise State and beat a powerhouse (sarcasm) Central Michigan. Come talk to me about MS in about 6 weeks.
Again, a "commitment" by a recruit doesn't mean a thing. You know, recruits are allowed to change their mind and nothing matters until signing day. Do you also realize that if these 4 star recruits are so awesome every other school will be going after them? Their "commitment" does not preclude other schools from trying to recruit them. </div></div>
Smartguy,
A recruit does change his mind at the last second and commits some place else, but even a dumb guy knows this is the exception and not the norm. Even dumb guys know that we should never make exceptions the normal case.
Also smartguy, Quality of recruits does not guarantee wins. What major program has not struggled even with the best recruits? Look at Texas, they are among the top 3 recruiters each and every year, but yet they had a losing record last year!
I think what we have here, is you just personally want to see Penn State go into oblivion, which is all fine and dandy with dumb guys like me, I understand, we all have our hated cartoon character that we don't like and want to see fail... but reality is what it is, the signs are there for them to be a top 20 program again, even during suspension.
I will say again, they have the money to get good coaches, and good coaches will get good recruits... they will have tools and they will come back.
Oh wait, I forgot you have a friend that works for the NCAA that can predict the future.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Dumbguy,
Michigan State? Who are they. A consistent also-ran? They barely squeezed by Boise State and beat a powerhouse (sarcasm) Central Michigan. Come talk to me about MS in about 6 weeks.
Again, a "commitment" by a recruit doesn't mean a thing. You know, recruits are allowed to change their mind and nothing matters until signing day. Do you also realize that if these 4 star recruits are so awesome every other school will be going after them? Their "commitment" does not preclude other schools from trying to recruit them. </div></div>
Smartguy,
A recruit does change his mind at the last second and commits some place else, but even a dumb guy knows this is the exception and not the norm. Even dumb guys know that we should never make exceptions the normal case.
Also smartguy, Quality of recruits does not guarantee wins. What major program has not struggled even with the best recruits? Look at Texas, they are among the top 3 recruiters each and every year, but yet they had a losing record last year!
I think what we have here, is you just personally want to see Penn State go into oblivion, which is all fine and dandy with dumb guys like me, I understand, we all have our hated cartoon character that we don't like and want to see fail... but reality is what it is, the signs are there for them to be a top 20 program again, even during suspension.
I will say again, they have the money to get good coaches, and good coaches will get good recruits... they will have tools and they will come back.
Oh wait, I forgot you have a friend that works for the NCAA that can predict the future.
Re: Penn State goes 0-2
My sources close to the pulse and a PSU alumni believes when everything shakes out and all the lawsuits and fines are paid, Penn State won't have a pot to piss in for quite some time.
Just sayin!!
Got no dog in this fight other than I have long admired the tradition of Penn State and Joe Paterno. I still admire the Penn State tradition ( one of the few programs that folks who looked like me dominated their roster)
I however have changed my admiration for Joe Pa. He succeeded in ruining so many years of his good efforts in a horrible career ending mistake. Shame on him and all the others who could have made a difference and stopped what took place. For that the primarily innocent Penn State nation will suffer for a very long time.
My sources close to the pulse and a PSU alumni believes when everything shakes out and all the lawsuits and fines are paid, Penn State won't have a pot to piss in for quite some time.
Just sayin!!
Got no dog in this fight other than I have long admired the tradition of Penn State and Joe Paterno. I still admire the Penn State tradition ( one of the few programs that folks who looked like me dominated their roster)
I however have changed my admiration for Joe Pa. He succeeded in ruining so many years of his good efforts in a horrible career ending mistake. Shame on him and all the others who could have made a difference and stopped what took place. For that the primarily innocent Penn State nation will suffer for a very long time.
Re: Penn State goes 0-2
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Dumbguy,
Everyone gets excited about 5 star recruits, but only the top echelon, i.e. the SEC, have a realistic chance at getting these recruits consistently. Please post a link showing who the 5 star recruits from 2010-2011-2012's recruiting class signed with.
120 FCS teams? Seriously? With the very few exceptions do you honestly feel that a 4 and 5 star recruit are going to even consider a non-BCS school? There are 6 BCS conferences of which 2 (ACC, Big East) are a joke. So that leaves 46 schools that have a realistic chance of getting those recruits.
And where do you get 30 scholarships? Div. 1 schools are allowed up to 85 scholarships per team. So the wealth isn't going to be as spread as you predict. </div></div>
Smartguy.. looking at the Rivals Top 100, I see a whole lot of teams other than SEC teams landing 5 star recruits. So how are these non-SEC teams that has no chance of landing a 5 star recruit... actually landing 5 star recruits? Is this what your NCAA friend told you? That no teams other than SEC teams have a chance of landing 5 star recruits? ... but yet other teams are getting 5 star recruits?
Also smartguy, why do you need me to show you a post of wehre recruits go where? You are the smartguy after all! If you can't figure it out and want a dumb guy like me to show you, I will be more than happy to. I just need you to confirm if you still need me to show you though.
As for scholarships, yes it's 85 total scholarship players per team. However, you are allowed to add up 25 per year (use to be 30), as long as you do not exceed 85 total. So using those numbers, my original statement still stands. 25 x 10 (teams) = 250, which is the number of 4 star recruits in any given year (about 250-300 4 star recruits a year)
Even if you do not count all 120 and only count the 46 BCS conference teams that = 3910 scholarship players... If you do the dumb guy math, you will see that there not enough 4 star recruits to fill the rosters, because according to dumb guy math, there is an average of only about 6 4-star recruits per team per year. Considering that on average each team has about 21 scholarships available... Any team that gets 8-10 4 star recruits I would say is doing pretty good!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Dumbguy,
Everyone gets excited about 5 star recruits, but only the top echelon, i.e. the SEC, have a realistic chance at getting these recruits consistently. Please post a link showing who the 5 star recruits from 2010-2011-2012's recruiting class signed with.
120 FCS teams? Seriously? With the very few exceptions do you honestly feel that a 4 and 5 star recruit are going to even consider a non-BCS school? There are 6 BCS conferences of which 2 (ACC, Big East) are a joke. So that leaves 46 schools that have a realistic chance of getting those recruits.
And where do you get 30 scholarships? Div. 1 schools are allowed up to 85 scholarships per team. So the wealth isn't going to be as spread as you predict. </div></div>
Smartguy.. looking at the Rivals Top 100, I see a whole lot of teams other than SEC teams landing 5 star recruits. So how are these non-SEC teams that has no chance of landing a 5 star recruit... actually landing 5 star recruits? Is this what your NCAA friend told you? That no teams other than SEC teams have a chance of landing 5 star recruits? ... but yet other teams are getting 5 star recruits?
Also smartguy, why do you need me to show you a post of wehre recruits go where? You are the smartguy after all! If you can't figure it out and want a dumb guy like me to show you, I will be more than happy to. I just need you to confirm if you still need me to show you though.
As for scholarships, yes it's 85 total scholarship players per team. However, you are allowed to add up 25 per year (use to be 30), as long as you do not exceed 85 total. So using those numbers, my original statement still stands. 25 x 10 (teams) = 250, which is the number of 4 star recruits in any given year (about 250-300 4 star recruits a year)
Even if you do not count all 120 and only count the 46 BCS conference teams that = 3910 scholarship players... If you do the dumb guy math, you will see that there not enough 4 star recruits to fill the rosters, because according to dumb guy math, there is an average of only about 6 4-star recruits per team per year. Considering that on average each team has about 21 scholarships available... Any team that gets 8-10 4 star recruits I would say is doing pretty good!
Re: Penn State goes 0-2
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Dumbguy,
So we finally come down to the crux of the matter, your opinion. You can "think" that 10 4 stars are just as good a 5 + 3 stars but until you are a college recruiter, I don't think either of our opinions matter. Very few three stars rise to national prominence? What defines national prominence? The NFL? Playing for a top school? Can you be more specific? Because I know that every successful top-tier college player was not necessarily a four+ star recruit.
I pick 2010-2012 for my year span. Please pick from there. </div></div>
Smartguy,
It's a lot more complicated than just stars. You need to recruit good players regardless of stars, that fits your teams personality, and your teams offensive or defensive system. Urban Meyer built a program with only 3 star recruits, and he was able to take down Pitt in a BCS Bowl... and in 2009, a non Meyer Utah team filled with 3 star recruits took down Alabama.
Now to get things back on track.. I would say, yeah, any team should get excited when they land a 4 star recruit that fits the teams system. Getting 4 4-star recruits to commit at this point in time, I would say you are not doing too bad, and ahead of the curve. Do you not agree? What does your friend who works for the NCAA have to say about this? Since he knows everything about the NCAA maybe we should ask him?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Dumbguy,
So we finally come down to the crux of the matter, your opinion. You can "think" that 10 4 stars are just as good a 5 + 3 stars but until you are a college recruiter, I don't think either of our opinions matter. Very few three stars rise to national prominence? What defines national prominence? The NFL? Playing for a top school? Can you be more specific? Because I know that every successful top-tier college player was not necessarily a four+ star recruit.
I pick 2010-2012 for my year span. Please pick from there. </div></div>
Smartguy,
It's a lot more complicated than just stars. You need to recruit good players regardless of stars, that fits your teams personality, and your teams offensive or defensive system. Urban Meyer built a program with only 3 star recruits, and he was able to take down Pitt in a BCS Bowl... and in 2009, a non Meyer Utah team filled with 3 star recruits took down Alabama.
Now to get things back on track.. I would say, yeah, any team should get excited when they land a 4 star recruit that fits the teams system. Getting 4 4-star recruits to commit at this point in time, I would say you are not doing too bad, and ahead of the curve. Do you not agree? What does your friend who works for the NCAA have to say about this? Since he knows everything about the NCAA maybe we should ask him?
Re: Penn State goes 0-2
I will give you this Eric, your responses have me completely entertained and put a smile on my face. Thanks for that.
But back to the discussion.
Smartguy,
A recruit does change his mind at the last second and commits some place else, but even a dumb guy knows this is the exception and not the norm. Even dumb guys know that we should never make exceptions the normal case.
<span style="font-weight: bold">But what a dumb guy apparently doesn't know is that we are not dealing with a "norm" here. We are dealing with an exception to the norm and that exception is a school plagued with an extremely negative stigma. We are all aware that every other recruiter vying for these players is going to incessantly remind them that they will have no chance at a national championship playing for PSU(in the next 4 years) and that PSU will be losing program for at least 3-4 years, and even you admitted to this. So under normal circumstances we would not be discussing the probability of recruits changing their mind, under these <span style="font-style: italic">exceptional</span> circumstances the odds are much higher they will.</span>
Also smartguy, Quality of recruits does not guarantee wins. What major program has not struggled even with the best recruits? Look at Texas, they are among the top 3 recruiters each and every year, but yet they had a losing record last year!
<span style="font-weight: bold">How do you not recognize you are making my point?? You say quality of recruits do not guarantee wins so then why does PSU's four star recruits guarantee their comeback? Which is it? You can't have it both ways.</span>
I think what we have here, is you just personally want to see Penn State go into oblivion, which is all fine and dandy with dumb guys like me, I understand, we all have our hated cartoon character that we don't like and want to see fail... but reality is what it is, the signs are there for them to be a top 20 program again, even during suspension.
<span style="font-weight: bold">Again, here is proof that you have no agenda other than to strictly argue. I never said I wanted to see PSU fail, in fact, I said the opposite here "Personally, I hope PSU bounces back. I wanted them to be more of a powerhouse before the scandal as it is a storied program." Also, I have a personal friend, Kyle Brady, who is a famous NFL tight end and PSU alum. So why would I want to see PSU fail? I said there is no guarantee they will come back and no guarantee how long it will take. You're incessant assumptions cannot see past that.</span>
I will say again, they have the money to get good coaches, and good coaches will get good recruits... they will have tools and they will come back.
Oh wait, I forgot you have a friend that works for the NCAA that can predict the future.
<span style="font-weight: bold">We sarcastically chastise us for, in your words, "trying" to predict the future and yet you're the one guaranteeing their come back. You're the one guaranteeing their immediate return to a top 20 program in four years. Yet you want to be a sarcastic hypocrite and argue with a pragmatist with knowledge of how college football works. Well, keep it coming. We're going to be following PSU football here for the next four years. Here's my new homepage just for you Eric
http://www.gopsusports.com/sports/m-footbl/psu-m-footbl-body.html
We will see what the future holds. </span>
I will give you this Eric, your responses have me completely entertained and put a smile on my face. Thanks for that.
But back to the discussion.
Smartguy,
A recruit does change his mind at the last second and commits some place else, but even a dumb guy knows this is the exception and not the norm. Even dumb guys know that we should never make exceptions the normal case.
<span style="font-weight: bold">But what a dumb guy apparently doesn't know is that we are not dealing with a "norm" here. We are dealing with an exception to the norm and that exception is a school plagued with an extremely negative stigma. We are all aware that every other recruiter vying for these players is going to incessantly remind them that they will have no chance at a national championship playing for PSU(in the next 4 years) and that PSU will be losing program for at least 3-4 years, and even you admitted to this. So under normal circumstances we would not be discussing the probability of recruits changing their mind, under these <span style="font-style: italic">exceptional</span> circumstances the odds are much higher they will.</span>
Also smartguy, Quality of recruits does not guarantee wins. What major program has not struggled even with the best recruits? Look at Texas, they are among the top 3 recruiters each and every year, but yet they had a losing record last year!
<span style="font-weight: bold">How do you not recognize you are making my point?? You say quality of recruits do not guarantee wins so then why does PSU's four star recruits guarantee their comeback? Which is it? You can't have it both ways.</span>
I think what we have here, is you just personally want to see Penn State go into oblivion, which is all fine and dandy with dumb guys like me, I understand, we all have our hated cartoon character that we don't like and want to see fail... but reality is what it is, the signs are there for them to be a top 20 program again, even during suspension.
<span style="font-weight: bold">Again, here is proof that you have no agenda other than to strictly argue. I never said I wanted to see PSU fail, in fact, I said the opposite here "Personally, I hope PSU bounces back. I wanted them to be more of a powerhouse before the scandal as it is a storied program." Also, I have a personal friend, Kyle Brady, who is a famous NFL tight end and PSU alum. So why would I want to see PSU fail? I said there is no guarantee they will come back and no guarantee how long it will take. You're incessant assumptions cannot see past that.</span>
I will say again, they have the money to get good coaches, and good coaches will get good recruits... they will have tools and they will come back.
Oh wait, I forgot you have a friend that works for the NCAA that can predict the future.
<span style="font-weight: bold">We sarcastically chastise us for, in your words, "trying" to predict the future and yet you're the one guaranteeing their come back. You're the one guaranteeing their immediate return to a top 20 program in four years. Yet you want to be a sarcastic hypocrite and argue with a pragmatist with knowledge of how college football works. Well, keep it coming. We're going to be following PSU football here for the next four years. Here's my new homepage just for you Eric
http://www.gopsusports.com/sports/m-footbl/psu-m-footbl-body.html
We will see what the future holds. </span>
Re: Penn State goes 0-2
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I'm not reading anything into what you're saying. You basically guaranteed a PSU comeback. I basically said don't be so quick to guarantee that. Your "clarification" here should have been your stated position from the beginning and it would have been a different story. And given the fact that of the 46 BCS teams, half are usually mediocre, top 25 isn't really that impressive to me.
Personally, I hope PSU bounces back. I wanted them to be more of a powerhouse before the scandal as it is a storied program. But I think that despite their alumni, and a decent coaching staff and their deep pockets, they are going to have a hard time climbing back from this scandal. This is more than a booster buying a car or a house, this is a scandal whose subject is repulsive and a horrible stigma. That may be their biggest challenge in overcoming that. </div></div>
Smartguy,
I am guaranteeing a PSU Comeback. I guess it depends on what you mean by "coming back". Even before the scandal broke, PSU was not very good, not even top 25. So at the very least, PSU will comeback to that.
So if PSU comes back to top 25, that is even better than what they were before the scandal broke. I see Top 15 to be very likely.. and maybe even a top-5 4-6 years down the line, or maybe even sooner.
With good players and good coaches, that is all you need for a good Football team. You act as if Sandusky's Ghost is going to haunt Penn State and cause fumbles and INTs.
I will say again, Penn State is not SMU. Or maybe you can ask your friend again, you know the one that works for the NCAA and that can predict the future.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I'm not reading anything into what you're saying. You basically guaranteed a PSU comeback. I basically said don't be so quick to guarantee that. Your "clarification" here should have been your stated position from the beginning and it would have been a different story. And given the fact that of the 46 BCS teams, half are usually mediocre, top 25 isn't really that impressive to me.
Personally, I hope PSU bounces back. I wanted them to be more of a powerhouse before the scandal as it is a storied program. But I think that despite their alumni, and a decent coaching staff and their deep pockets, they are going to have a hard time climbing back from this scandal. This is more than a booster buying a car or a house, this is a scandal whose subject is repulsive and a horrible stigma. That may be their biggest challenge in overcoming that. </div></div>
Smartguy,
I am guaranteeing a PSU Comeback. I guess it depends on what you mean by "coming back". Even before the scandal broke, PSU was not very good, not even top 25. So at the very least, PSU will comeback to that.
So if PSU comes back to top 25, that is even better than what they were before the scandal broke. I see Top 15 to be very likely.. and maybe even a top-5 4-6 years down the line, or maybe even sooner.
With good players and good coaches, that is all you need for a good Football team. You act as if Sandusky's Ghost is going to haunt Penn State and cause fumbles and INTs.
I will say again, Penn State is not SMU. Or maybe you can ask your friend again, you know the one that works for the NCAA and that can predict the future.
Re: Penn State goes 0-2
Smartguy.. looking at the Rivals Top 100, I see a whole lot of teams other than SEC teams landing 5 star recruits. So how are these non-SEC teams that has no chance of landing a 5 star recruit... actually landing 5 star recruits? Is this what your NCAA friend told you? That no teams other than SEC teams have a chance of landing 5 star recruits? ... but yet other teams are getting 5 star recruits?
<span style="font-weight: bold">Funny, I just looked at the 2013 Rivals 100 commitment list and three SEC schools have a combined 34 4+ star recruits. Two of the teams have 12 each. Kind of throws your numbers off doesn't it? Your fallacious arguments are not holding water.</span>
Also smartguy, why do you need me to show you a post of wehre recruits go where? You are the smartguy after all! If you can't figure it out and want a dumb guy like me to show you, I will be more than happy to. I just need you to confirm if you still need me to show you though.
<span style="font-weight: bold">Here you go. I wanted YOU to show me because you're such a dumb guy I didn't think you have the knowledge to back up your statistics.
http://footballrecruiting.rivals.com/teamlanding.asp?type=commit&sid=880
Let's look at conference by conference and see where all the 4+ star recruits are going.</span>
As for scholarships, yes it's 85 total scholarship players per team. However, you are allowed to add up 25 per year (use to be 30), as long as you do not exceed 85 total. So using those numbers, my original statement still stands. 25 x 10 (teams) = 250, which is the number of 4 star recruits in any given year (about 250-300 4 star recruits a year)
<span style="font-weight: bold">The math doesn't quite work that way. You don't automatically have 25 every year. It fluctuates due to graduation rate, drop out, and leaving early for the NFL. So as long as you don't exceed 85, you can have any number available in any given year. </span>
Even if you do not count all 120 and only count the 46 BCS conference teams that = 3910 scholarship players... If you do the dumb guy math, you will see that there not enough 4 star recruits to fill the rosters, because according to dumb guy math, there is an average of only about 6 4-star recruits per team per year. Considering that on average each team has about 21 scholarships available... Any team that gets 8-10 4 star recruits I would say is doing pretty good!
<span style="font-weight: bold">Again, let me show you where you're talking out of both sides of your mouth. Not every scholarship player has to be a ranked recruit. So to say that all 3910 players under BCS team scholarship MUST be star ranked is ignorant. You cannot rank every BCS eligible player, and according to you, one doesn't have to be a "star'd" player to play well. So to assume as you are doing that all 3910 scholarship players are star ranked is ignorant. But here's to your point. Any team that does get 8-10 four star ranked players are doing well. 4- four star ranked players i.e. PSU isn't doing that well.</span>
Smartguy.. looking at the Rivals Top 100, I see a whole lot of teams other than SEC teams landing 5 star recruits. So how are these non-SEC teams that has no chance of landing a 5 star recruit... actually landing 5 star recruits? Is this what your NCAA friend told you? That no teams other than SEC teams have a chance of landing 5 star recruits? ... but yet other teams are getting 5 star recruits?
<span style="font-weight: bold">Funny, I just looked at the 2013 Rivals 100 commitment list and three SEC schools have a combined 34 4+ star recruits. Two of the teams have 12 each. Kind of throws your numbers off doesn't it? Your fallacious arguments are not holding water.</span>
Also smartguy, why do you need me to show you a post of wehre recruits go where? You are the smartguy after all! If you can't figure it out and want a dumb guy like me to show you, I will be more than happy to. I just need you to confirm if you still need me to show you though.
<span style="font-weight: bold">Here you go. I wanted YOU to show me because you're such a dumb guy I didn't think you have the knowledge to back up your statistics.
http://footballrecruiting.rivals.com/teamlanding.asp?type=commit&sid=880
Let's look at conference by conference and see where all the 4+ star recruits are going.</span>
As for scholarships, yes it's 85 total scholarship players per team. However, you are allowed to add up 25 per year (use to be 30), as long as you do not exceed 85 total. So using those numbers, my original statement still stands. 25 x 10 (teams) = 250, which is the number of 4 star recruits in any given year (about 250-300 4 star recruits a year)
<span style="font-weight: bold">The math doesn't quite work that way. You don't automatically have 25 every year. It fluctuates due to graduation rate, drop out, and leaving early for the NFL. So as long as you don't exceed 85, you can have any number available in any given year. </span>
Even if you do not count all 120 and only count the 46 BCS conference teams that = 3910 scholarship players... If you do the dumb guy math, you will see that there not enough 4 star recruits to fill the rosters, because according to dumb guy math, there is an average of only about 6 4-star recruits per team per year. Considering that on average each team has about 21 scholarships available... Any team that gets 8-10 4 star recruits I would say is doing pretty good!
<span style="font-weight: bold">Again, let me show you where you're talking out of both sides of your mouth. Not every scholarship player has to be a ranked recruit. So to say that all 3910 players under BCS team scholarship MUST be star ranked is ignorant. You cannot rank every BCS eligible player, and according to you, one doesn't have to be a "star'd" player to play well. So to assume as you are doing that all 3910 scholarship players are star ranked is ignorant. But here's to your point. Any team that does get 8-10 four star ranked players are doing well. 4- four star ranked players i.e. PSU isn't doing that well.</span>
Re: Penn State goes 0-2
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="font-weight: bold">But what a dumb guy apparently doesn't know is that we are not dealing with a "norm" here. We are dealing with an exception to the norm and that exception is a school plagued with an extremely negative stigma. We are all aware that every other recruiter vying for these players is going to incessantly remind them that they will have no chance at a national championship playing for PSU(in the next 4 years) and that PSU will be losing program for at least 3-4 years, and even you admitted to this. So under normal circumstances we would not be discussing the probability of recruits changing their mind, under these <span style="font-style: italic">exceptional</span> circumstances the odds are much higher they will.</span>
</div></div>
Smartguy, I hate to break the news to you but these guys committed after the scandal. So I would say things are normal again from a Recruiting perspective.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="font-weight: bold">But what a dumb guy apparently doesn't know is that we are not dealing with a "norm" here. We are dealing with an exception to the norm and that exception is a school plagued with an extremely negative stigma. We are all aware that every other recruiter vying for these players is going to incessantly remind them that they will have no chance at a national championship playing for PSU(in the next 4 years) and that PSU will be losing program for at least 3-4 years, and even you admitted to this. So under normal circumstances we would not be discussing the probability of recruits changing their mind, under these <span style="font-style: italic">exceptional</span> circumstances the odds are much higher they will.</span>
</div></div>
Smartguy, I hate to break the news to you but these guys committed after the scandal. So I would say things are normal again from a Recruiting perspective.
Re: Penn State goes 0-2
Smartguy,
It's a lot more complicated than just stars. You need to recruit good players regardless of stars, that fits your teams personality, and your teams offensive or defensive system. Urban Meyer built a program with only 3 star recruits, and he was able to take down Pitt in a BCS Bowl... and in 2009, a non Meyer Utah team filled with 3 star recruits took down Alabama.
<span style="font-weight: bold">Again, you're making my point. There are many factors that come into play and star ranking is no guarantee of success, although it does play into the odds' favor. Urban Meyer didn't necessarily "build" a successful program at Florida, he really took a successful program over. Besides, he had his share of problems too with over 30 players arrested in his tenure there. Also, he took down Pitt? Am I supposed to be impressed with that? Because I'm not. Pitt is not even a top 25 program. And Utah taking down Alabama proves what point? The only point it proves is teams get lucky some times. ULA-Monroe beat Arkansas this last week. Are you going to argue they can do it consistently? Consistency is the key and a team full of 3 stars is not going to <span style="font-style: italic">consistently</span> beat a stacked team.</span>
Now to get things back on track.. I would say, yeah, any team should get excited when they land a 4 star recruit that fits the teams system. Getting 4 4-star recruits to commit at this point in time, I would say you are not doing too bad, and ahead of the curve. Do you not agree? What does your friend who works for the NCAA have to say about this? Since he knows everything about the NCAA maybe we should ask him?
<span style="font-weight: bold">Good for PSU getting 4 commitments this early. Again, though, I say lets look at what everyone else is doing. Michigan State has 2 four stars already and they're not a powerhouse. The Ohio State University has 11 already. What does that mean?</span>
Smartguy,
It's a lot more complicated than just stars. You need to recruit good players regardless of stars, that fits your teams personality, and your teams offensive or defensive system. Urban Meyer built a program with only 3 star recruits, and he was able to take down Pitt in a BCS Bowl... and in 2009, a non Meyer Utah team filled with 3 star recruits took down Alabama.
<span style="font-weight: bold">Again, you're making my point. There are many factors that come into play and star ranking is no guarantee of success, although it does play into the odds' favor. Urban Meyer didn't necessarily "build" a successful program at Florida, he really took a successful program over. Besides, he had his share of problems too with over 30 players arrested in his tenure there. Also, he took down Pitt? Am I supposed to be impressed with that? Because I'm not. Pitt is not even a top 25 program. And Utah taking down Alabama proves what point? The only point it proves is teams get lucky some times. ULA-Monroe beat Arkansas this last week. Are you going to argue they can do it consistently? Consistency is the key and a team full of 3 stars is not going to <span style="font-style: italic">consistently</span> beat a stacked team.</span>
Now to get things back on track.. I would say, yeah, any team should get excited when they land a 4 star recruit that fits the teams system. Getting 4 4-star recruits to commit at this point in time, I would say you are not doing too bad, and ahead of the curve. Do you not agree? What does your friend who works for the NCAA have to say about this? Since he knows everything about the NCAA maybe we should ask him?
<span style="font-weight: bold">Good for PSU getting 4 commitments this early. Again, though, I say lets look at what everyone else is doing. Michigan State has 2 four stars already and they're not a powerhouse. The Ohio State University has 11 already. What does that mean?</span>
Re: Penn State goes 0-2
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="font-weight: bold">How do you not recognize you are making my point?? You say quality of recruits do not guarantee wins so then why does PSU's four star recruits guarantee their comeback? Which is it? You can't have it both ways.</span>
</div></div>
Smartguy,
But it does work both ways. Quality recruits will help in "getting" wins, but they do not "guarantee" wins.
To get back on track, Penn State has their man (coaching wise), and they are still getting the recruits. 4 4-star recruits at this point in time is doing pretty good.
History has shown that a quality HC can almost guarantee wins. A quality headcoach can recruit, he can build a staff, and he can get money for the program.
What the important question here is.. does Penn State have the resources to hire a good coach? and they do! They believe they have their man already, he is not the guy, then they will have no problems paying big bucks for another coach.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="font-weight: bold">How do you not recognize you are making my point?? You say quality of recruits do not guarantee wins so then why does PSU's four star recruits guarantee their comeback? Which is it? You can't have it both ways.</span>
</div></div>
Smartguy,
But it does work both ways. Quality recruits will help in "getting" wins, but they do not "guarantee" wins.
To get back on track, Penn State has their man (coaching wise), and they are still getting the recruits. 4 4-star recruits at this point in time is doing pretty good.
History has shown that a quality HC can almost guarantee wins. A quality headcoach can recruit, he can build a staff, and he can get money for the program.
What the important question here is.. does Penn State have the resources to hire a good coach? and they do! They believe they have their man already, he is not the guy, then they will have no problems paying big bucks for another coach.
Re: Penn State goes 0-2
Smartguy,
I am guaranteeing a PSU Comeback. I guess it depends on what you mean by "coming back". Even before the scandal broke, PSU was not very good, not even top 25. So at the very least, PSU will comeback to that.
<span style="font-weight: bold">Well if, by your definition, a comeback precludes not even being in the top 25 then I guess you're right, PSU will make a comeback. That's kind of sad though isn't it?</span>
So if PSU comes back to top 25, that is even better than what they were before the scandal broke. I see Top 15 to be very likely.. and maybe even a top-5 4-6 years down the line, or maybe even sooner.
<span style="font-weight: bold">Sure, top 25 is better than what they were. Top 15, a long shot but doable. Top 10? Not going to happen in the next 4-5 years. Again though, we will monitor their progress here in this thread and we will see.</span>
With good players and good coaches, that is all you need for a good Football team. You act as if Sandusky's Ghost is going to haunt Penn State and cause fumbles and INTs.
<span style="font-weight: bold">Well, not quite. There are a number of contributing factors besides putting good coaches and good players together. There has to be cohesion, loyalty, dedication, etc. Now good players and good coaches are the beginning recipe for success but just because you put a nice filet and fresh ingredients in front of me doesn't mean I'm going to make a gourmet meal.</span>
I will say again, Penn State is not SMU. Or maybe you can ask your friend again, you know the one that works for the NCAA and that can predict the future.
<span style="font-weight: bold">We shall see.</span>
Smartguy,
I am guaranteeing a PSU Comeback. I guess it depends on what you mean by "coming back". Even before the scandal broke, PSU was not very good, not even top 25. So at the very least, PSU will comeback to that.
<span style="font-weight: bold">Well if, by your definition, a comeback precludes not even being in the top 25 then I guess you're right, PSU will make a comeback. That's kind of sad though isn't it?</span>
So if PSU comes back to top 25, that is even better than what they were before the scandal broke. I see Top 15 to be very likely.. and maybe even a top-5 4-6 years down the line, or maybe even sooner.
<span style="font-weight: bold">Sure, top 25 is better than what they were. Top 15, a long shot but doable. Top 10? Not going to happen in the next 4-5 years. Again though, we will monitor their progress here in this thread and we will see.</span>
With good players and good coaches, that is all you need for a good Football team. You act as if Sandusky's Ghost is going to haunt Penn State and cause fumbles and INTs.
<span style="font-weight: bold">Well, not quite. There are a number of contributing factors besides putting good coaches and good players together. There has to be cohesion, loyalty, dedication, etc. Now good players and good coaches are the beginning recipe for success but just because you put a nice filet and fresh ingredients in front of me doesn't mean I'm going to make a gourmet meal.</span>
I will say again, Penn State is not SMU. Or maybe you can ask your friend again, you know the one that works for the NCAA and that can predict the future.
<span style="font-weight: bold">We shall see.</span>
Re: Penn State goes 0-2
Smartguy,
But it does work both ways. Quality recruits will help in "getting" wins, but they do not "guarantee" wins.
To get back on track, Penn State has their man (coaching wise), and they are still getting the recruits. 4 4-star recruits at this point in time is doing pretty good.
History has shown that a quality HC can almost guarantee wins. A quality headcoach can recruit, he can build a staff, and he can get money for the program.
What the important question here is.. does Penn State have the resources to hire a good coach? and they do! They believe they have their man already, he is not the guy, then they will have no problems paying big bucks for another coach.
<span style="font-weight: bold">The bottom line is this: We will see what Penn State does over teh next four years. Then we can continue are discussion and see which one of us is wrong. </span>
Smartguy,
But it does work both ways. Quality recruits will help in "getting" wins, but they do not "guarantee" wins.
To get back on track, Penn State has their man (coaching wise), and they are still getting the recruits. 4 4-star recruits at this point in time is doing pretty good.
History has shown that a quality HC can almost guarantee wins. A quality headcoach can recruit, he can build a staff, and he can get money for the program.
What the important question here is.. does Penn State have the resources to hire a good coach? and they do! They believe they have their man already, he is not the guy, then they will have no problems paying big bucks for another coach.
<span style="font-weight: bold">The bottom line is this: We will see what Penn State does over teh next four years. Then we can continue are discussion and see which one of us is wrong. </span>
Re: Penn State goes 0-2
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="font-weight: bold">Funny, I just looked at the 2013 Rivals 100 commitment list and three SEC schools have a combined 34 4+ star recruits. Two of the teams have 12 each. Kind of throws your numbers off doesn't it? Your fallacious arguments are not holding water.</span>
</div></div>
Smartguy,
We were talking about 5 star recruits, you seem to think they only go to the SEC. I see 5 star recruits going to other teams. Now if you want to talk 4-stars, I dumb guy can talk about that too. If you look at the the Rivals top-250, I see many players going to school others than the SEC.
What fallacies are you talking about? USC, Texas, and Ohio State are not in the SEC and they already have 10+ 4 star commits.
These schools are not the norm though, and if you take UTexas alone, you will see they had a losing record last year in conference despite having some of the best recruiting classes.
Now to get back to the point, Penn State is right where they should be. 4 4-star recruits at this point in time is ahead of the curve. Penn State was not good before the scandal broke, so at the very least they will get back to 2010 levels.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="font-weight: bold">Funny, I just looked at the 2013 Rivals 100 commitment list and three SEC schools have a combined 34 4+ star recruits. Two of the teams have 12 each. Kind of throws your numbers off doesn't it? Your fallacious arguments are not holding water.</span>
</div></div>
Smartguy,
We were talking about 5 star recruits, you seem to think they only go to the SEC. I see 5 star recruits going to other teams. Now if you want to talk 4-stars, I dumb guy can talk about that too. If you look at the the Rivals top-250, I see many players going to school others than the SEC.
What fallacies are you talking about? USC, Texas, and Ohio State are not in the SEC and they already have 10+ 4 star commits.
These schools are not the norm though, and if you take UTexas alone, you will see they had a losing record last year in conference despite having some of the best recruiting classes.
Now to get back to the point, Penn State is right where they should be. 4 4-star recruits at this point in time is ahead of the curve. Penn State was not good before the scandal broke, so at the very least they will get back to 2010 levels.
Re: Penn State goes 0-2
This coming week Penn State has Navy. It's a double edged sword because if Penn State wins, it's just against Navy. If Penn State Loses, well....
This coming week Penn State has Navy. It's a double edged sword because if Penn State wins, it's just against Navy. If Penn State Loses, well....
Re: Penn State goes 0-2
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="font-weight: bold">The math doesn't quite work that way. You don't automatically have 25 every year. It fluctuates due to graduation rate, drop out, and leaving early for the NFL. So as long as you don't exceed 85, you can have any number available in any given year. </span>
</div></div>
smartguy,
You can use whatever number you want.. use 20 instead of 25, you will see my original statement does not change. That is there are not enough 4 star athletes to go around. On average (just 46 BCS teams), each team will only get 6 4-star recruits, regardless of the numbers of scholarships available per year.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="font-weight: bold">The math doesn't quite work that way. You don't automatically have 25 every year. It fluctuates due to graduation rate, drop out, and leaving early for the NFL. So as long as you don't exceed 85, you can have any number available in any given year. </span>
</div></div>
smartguy,
You can use whatever number you want.. use 20 instead of 25, you will see my original statement does not change. That is there are not enough 4 star athletes to go around. On average (just 46 BCS teams), each team will only get 6 4-star recruits, regardless of the numbers of scholarships available per year.
Re: Penn State goes 0-2
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="font-weight: bold">Again, let me show you where you're talking out of both sides of your mouth. Not every scholarship player has to be a ranked recruit. So to say that all 3910 players under BCS team scholarship MUST be star ranked is ignorant. You cannot rank every BCS eligible player, and according to you, one doesn't have to be a "star'd" player to play well. So to assume as you are doing that all 3910 scholarship players are star ranked is ignorant. But here's to your point. Any team that does get 8-10 four star ranked players are doing well. 4- four star ranked players i.e. PSU isn't doing that well.</span> </div></div>
Smartguy,
I have no problems repeating myself, I actually like it because I know what I am going to say already. This is important for a dumbguy like me... now if I may continue
Every team should get excited when they land a 4-star recruit, which you seem to think is not a big deal.
Penn State is on pace to get 8-10 4 star recruits. National signing day is not until Feb, and most guys don't make their Commitment till Dec.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="font-weight: bold">Again, let me show you where you're talking out of both sides of your mouth. Not every scholarship player has to be a ranked recruit. So to say that all 3910 players under BCS team scholarship MUST be star ranked is ignorant. You cannot rank every BCS eligible player, and according to you, one doesn't have to be a "star'd" player to play well. So to assume as you are doing that all 3910 scholarship players are star ranked is ignorant. But here's to your point. Any team that does get 8-10 four star ranked players are doing well. 4- four star ranked players i.e. PSU isn't doing that well.</span> </div></div>
Smartguy,
I have no problems repeating myself, I actually like it because I know what I am going to say already. This is important for a dumbguy like me... now if I may continue
Every team should get excited when they land a 4-star recruit, which you seem to think is not a big deal.
Penn State is on pace to get 8-10 4 star recruits. National signing day is not until Feb, and most guys don't make their Commitment till Dec.
Re: Penn State goes 0-2
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="font-weight: bold">Again, you're making my point. There are many factors that come into play and star ranking is no guarantee of success, although it does play into the odds' favor. Urban Meyer didn't necessarily "build" a successful program at Florida, he really took a successful program over. Besides, he had his share of problems too with over 30 players arrested in his tenure there. Also, he took down Pitt? Am I supposed to be impressed with that? Because I'm not. Pitt is not even a top 25 program. And Utah taking down Alabama proves what point? The only point it proves is teams get lucky some times. ULA-Monroe beat Arkansas this last week. Are you going to argue they can do it consistently? Consistency is the key and a team full of 3 stars is not going to <span style="font-style: italic">consistently</span> beat a stacked team.</span>
</div></div>
Smartguy, Urban Meyer won wherever he went. He took Bowling Green and Utah to greener pastures, and he took Florida to a level that matched Spurrier (which no one thought was possible).
You do not think it's a big deal when a team like Utah, a team filled with 2-3 star recruits, beats up on a BCS Conference Champ like Pitt? A Pitt team filled with 4-star recruits? Or a Utah team (filled with 3 star recruits) that beat SEC runner up Alabama (a team filled with 4 and 5 star recruits)? Did you ask your friend that worked for the NCAA?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="font-weight: bold">Again, you're making my point. There are many factors that come into play and star ranking is no guarantee of success, although it does play into the odds' favor. Urban Meyer didn't necessarily "build" a successful program at Florida, he really took a successful program over. Besides, he had his share of problems too with over 30 players arrested in his tenure there. Also, he took down Pitt? Am I supposed to be impressed with that? Because I'm not. Pitt is not even a top 25 program. And Utah taking down Alabama proves what point? The only point it proves is teams get lucky some times. ULA-Monroe beat Arkansas this last week. Are you going to argue they can do it consistently? Consistency is the key and a team full of 3 stars is not going to <span style="font-style: italic">consistently</span> beat a stacked team.</span>
</div></div>
Smartguy, Urban Meyer won wherever he went. He took Bowling Green and Utah to greener pastures, and he took Florida to a level that matched Spurrier (which no one thought was possible).
You do not think it's a big deal when a team like Utah, a team filled with 2-3 star recruits, beats up on a BCS Conference Champ like Pitt? A Pitt team filled with 4-star recruits? Or a Utah team (filled with 3 star recruits) that beat SEC runner up Alabama (a team filled with 4 and 5 star recruits)? Did you ask your friend that worked for the NCAA?
Re: Penn State goes 0-2
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="font-weight: bold">We sarcastically chastise us for, in your words, "trying" to predict the future and yet you're the one guaranteeing their come back. You're the one guaranteeing their immediate return to a top 20 program in four years. Yet you want to be a sarcastic hypocrite and argue with a pragmatist with knowledge of how college football works. Well, keep it coming. We're going to be following PSU football here for the next four years. Here's my new homepage just for you Eric
http://www.gopsusports.com/sports/m-footbl/psu-m-footbl-body.html
We will see what the future holds. </span> </div></div>
Like I said, I have no problems repeating myself because it makes it easier, I already know what I am going to say.. her it depends on what you mean by "coming back". Penn State was not that good even before the scandal broke. I am guaranteeing they will be back to at the very least 2010 levels... in 4-6, I see a very likely top 15 team again, and even a top 5 is quite possible (though not very likely).
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="font-weight: bold">We sarcastically chastise us for, in your words, "trying" to predict the future and yet you're the one guaranteeing their come back. You're the one guaranteeing their immediate return to a top 20 program in four years. Yet you want to be a sarcastic hypocrite and argue with a pragmatist with knowledge of how college football works. Well, keep it coming. We're going to be following PSU football here for the next four years. Here's my new homepage just for you Eric
http://www.gopsusports.com/sports/m-footbl/psu-m-footbl-body.html
We will see what the future holds. </span> </div></div>
Like I said, I have no problems repeating myself because it makes it easier, I already know what I am going to say.. her it depends on what you mean by "coming back". Penn State was not that good even before the scandal broke. I am guaranteeing they will be back to at the very least 2010 levels... in 4-6, I see a very likely top 15 team again, and even a top 5 is quite possible (though not very likely).
Re: Penn State goes 0-2
smartguy,
You can use whatever number you want.. use 20 instead of 25, you will see my original statement does not change. That is there are not enough 4 star athletes to go around. On average (just 46 BCS teams), each team will only get 6 4-star recruits, regardless of the numbers of scholarships available per year.
<span style="font-weight: bold">So each team will only get 6-4 star recruits? So all of the teams I've quoted so far getting 10+ commitments will have to give their commitments to someone else? NO. Some teams will get more than others. BTW, 30% of the 2013 recruiting class has already committed to the SEC. Let's go back and see what happens after signing day. Doesn't leave a lot to go around to the others. </span>
smartguy,
You can use whatever number you want.. use 20 instead of 25, you will see my original statement does not change. That is there are not enough 4 star athletes to go around. On average (just 46 BCS teams), each team will only get 6 4-star recruits, regardless of the numbers of scholarships available per year.
<span style="font-weight: bold">So each team will only get 6-4 star recruits? So all of the teams I've quoted so far getting 10+ commitments will have to give their commitments to someone else? NO. Some teams will get more than others. BTW, 30% of the 2013 recruiting class has already committed to the SEC. Let's go back and see what happens after signing day. Doesn't leave a lot to go around to the others. </span>
Re: Penn State goes 0-2
Smartguy,
I have no problems repeating myself, I actually like it because I know what I am going to say already. This is important for a dumbguy like me... now if I may continue
Every team should get excited when they land a 4-star recruit, which you seem to think is not a big deal.
Penn State is on pace to get 8-10 4 star recruits. National signing day is not until Feb, and most guys don't make their Commitment till Dec.
<span style="font-weight: bold">I don't think you mind repeating yourself as much as you like to hear yourself talk. For a top tier, i.e. consistent top 10 team, a four star recruit is the norm rather than the exception. (remember you talked about norms vs. exceptions earlier?) So for a non-top tier team like PSU to get 4, it's not impressive. Now just because they have four now does not mean they are "on pace" to get 8-10. Again, we will both see after signing day.</span>
Smartguy,
I have no problems repeating myself, I actually like it because I know what I am going to say already. This is important for a dumbguy like me... now if I may continue
Every team should get excited when they land a 4-star recruit, which you seem to think is not a big deal.
Penn State is on pace to get 8-10 4 star recruits. National signing day is not until Feb, and most guys don't make their Commitment till Dec.
<span style="font-weight: bold">I don't think you mind repeating yourself as much as you like to hear yourself talk. For a top tier, i.e. consistent top 10 team, a four star recruit is the norm rather than the exception. (remember you talked about norms vs. exceptions earlier?) So for a non-top tier team like PSU to get 4, it's not impressive. Now just because they have four now does not mean they are "on pace" to get 8-10. Again, we will both see after signing day.</span>
Re: Penn State goes 0-2
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Smartguy,
I am guaranteeing a PSU Comeback. I guess it depends on what you mean by "coming back". Even before the scandal broke, PSU was not very good, not even top 25. So at the very least, PSU will comeback to that.
<span style="font-weight: bold">Well if, by your definition, a comeback precludes not even being in the top 25 then I guess you're right, PSU will make a comeback. That's kind of sad though isn't it?</span>
So if PSU comes back to top 25, that is even better than what they were before the scandal broke. I see Top 15 to be very likely.. and maybe even a top-5 4-6 years down the line, or maybe even sooner.
<span style="font-weight: bold">Sure, top 25 is better than what they were. Top 15, a long shot but doable. Top 10? Not going to happen in the next 4-5 years. Again though, we will monitor their progress here in this thread and we will see.</span>
With good players and good coaches, that is all you need for a good Football team. You act as if Sandusky's Ghost is going to haunt Penn State and cause fumbles and INTs.
<span style="font-weight: bold">Well, not quite. There are a number of contributing factors besides putting good coaches and good players together. There has to be cohesion, loyalty, dedication, etc. Now good players and good coaches are the beginning recipe for success but just because you put a nice filet and fresh ingredients in front of me doesn't mean I'm going to make a gourmet meal.</span>
I will say again, Penn State is not SMU. Or maybe you can ask your friend again, you know the one that works for the NCAA and that can predict the future.
<span style="font-weight: bold">We shall see.</span> </div></div>
Smartguy, I do not mind going in circles, because at least I have been there before and have experience saying it already hahhaah. now.....
Do you really believe Penn State will go the way of SMU? You know SMU, a program that has not recovered since it received it's death Penalty almost 30 years ago? By my calculations, Penn State should be a top 25 program again in 3 years... or maybe even sooner. When was the last time SMU saw the top 25?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Smartguy,
I am guaranteeing a PSU Comeback. I guess it depends on what you mean by "coming back". Even before the scandal broke, PSU was not very good, not even top 25. So at the very least, PSU will comeback to that.
<span style="font-weight: bold">Well if, by your definition, a comeback precludes not even being in the top 25 then I guess you're right, PSU will make a comeback. That's kind of sad though isn't it?</span>
So if PSU comes back to top 25, that is even better than what they were before the scandal broke. I see Top 15 to be very likely.. and maybe even a top-5 4-6 years down the line, or maybe even sooner.
<span style="font-weight: bold">Sure, top 25 is better than what they were. Top 15, a long shot but doable. Top 10? Not going to happen in the next 4-5 years. Again though, we will monitor their progress here in this thread and we will see.</span>
With good players and good coaches, that is all you need for a good Football team. You act as if Sandusky's Ghost is going to haunt Penn State and cause fumbles and INTs.
<span style="font-weight: bold">Well, not quite. There are a number of contributing factors besides putting good coaches and good players together. There has to be cohesion, loyalty, dedication, etc. Now good players and good coaches are the beginning recipe for success but just because you put a nice filet and fresh ingredients in front of me doesn't mean I'm going to make a gourmet meal.</span>
I will say again, Penn State is not SMU. Or maybe you can ask your friend again, you know the one that works for the NCAA and that can predict the future.
<span style="font-weight: bold">We shall see.</span> </div></div>
Smartguy, I do not mind going in circles, because at least I have been there before and have experience saying it already hahhaah. now.....
Do you really believe Penn State will go the way of SMU? You know SMU, a program that has not recovered since it received it's death Penalty almost 30 years ago? By my calculations, Penn State should be a top 25 program again in 3 years... or maybe even sooner. When was the last time SMU saw the top 25?
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