Rifle Scopes Movin' on up to a 1-4x optic in the citaaaaay

[Trigger Hippie]

So I use a Noveske 18" Rogue Hunter 5.56 as a kind of do-it-all rifle - I shoot handload 77 SMKs with a scope for general target shooting with an eye towards long-range competition (something I haven't managed to get into), and I shoot M193 or M855 for closer-range multi-gun (which I've gotten into, hard).

As a result, I've had a kind of schizophrenic scope setup for a while - an Eotech EXPS 3-4 with a Vortex VMX3 on a Larue flipmount for tactical classes and 3-gun, and a rather high-powered 4-16x Horus Raptor for ballistics work and long-range.

Lately I've been thinking it would be wiser to trade away all the sights and just get one nice do-it-all scope.

After a bit of research and reading some SH reviews as well as ARFCOM's huge 1-4x optics review, I think I've narrowed it down to four candidates in the ~$1k range. Initially, I was considering an AccuPoint in this range, but I just couldn't stand the German #4 reticle.

Any thoughts as to which might be the best option? 3-gun targets don't get much further out than 200 yds where I shoot; it's also usually very bright outside where I shoot. I prefer calculating my own holdovers in mRads, but I suppose it wouldn't kill me to learn to use a BDC with holdover/under points.

Leupold Mark 4 CQ/T CM-R2 reticle - $1100 when on sale:

Leupold VX-6 1-6 multigun - $950 (when available):

Vortex PST 1-4, TMCQ reticle - $600:

Nightforce NXS 1-4x24, illuminated mil-dot reticle - approx. $1000 used -

 

[Mile High Shooting]

Re: Movin' on up to a 1-4x optic in the citaaaaay

The FC-2 in a 1-4x would be a much better option than a Mil-Dot with the Nightforce. It's a pretty small Mil-Dot to be calibrated at 4x.

I'm a little biased, but the Nightforce is the most bomb proof option of the group, and with the capped adjustments it's a very streamlined scope. It should have the nicest glass of the group as well.

-Sean

 

[Outdoorsman9]

Re: Movin' on up to a 1-4x optic in the citaaaaay

you could easily find a PST for less than $600

 

[NoFail]

Re: Movin' on up to a 1-4x optic in the citaaaaay

Out of those four examples I'm leaning towards the VX-6 for you. Just because of more power. The reticle is okay, maybe I don't want the little circle around the center dot idk. I guess any one of those 3 variables would be great if all you are going is 200 yards.

 

[Trigger Hippie]

Re: Movin' on up to a 1-4x optic in the citaaaaay

Interesting. Looks like the Nightforce NXS 1-4 or Leupold VX-6 is the ticket.

A used Nightforce might be actually possible to find. I see a lot of NXS 1-4s with the FC-2 reticle up, actually. I find it a little... simple. (This is the reticle, btw

I think the idea is that you can use the bottom of the circle, the top of the triangle, and the bottom of the triangle as holdover points. The overall design seems to be to "lead" the eye towards the center point, which I suppose could work for fast acquisition of the center dot.

The problem I find with that is that there's no telling what range those are with my ammo and atmospherics. I guess the argument could be made that it's close enough for 3-gun work. It's just... hard to let go of the precision and ease of use that I can get with mil-dot or Horus reticle vice transposing and holding over/under a BDC ladder. "2.4 mils down" is easier than "0.2 above the 2.6 down mark".

I wonder if anyone has experience using the illuminated mil-dot in daylight? The only problem that occurs to me is that the NXS 1-4's illumination lines could be too fine to pick up.

I'm used to the big honking five-dots and a circle of the EXPS3-4 so the Vortex's illuminated circle makes me feel right at home. It's also the same reason I'm kind of ambivalent about the Leupold FireDot system - I've seen it in a VX-R Patrol 1.5-4x SPR FireDot that I just wasn't impressed with, it wasn't visually salient enough against a bright background.

The alternative besides the FC-2 is the NP-1 - which looks distracting to me:

Here perhaps they're trying to create a big visually salient crosshairs? Somehow it seems busy to me without having relevant ballistic information like most busy reticles have. It's like... if you're going to have a cluttered visual field... it better be cluttered with some effin' relevant information. The mil-dot illum seems the best compromise between "look at me" visual importance for speed acquisition and interpolable (interpolatable?) mil-dots for deriving a longer-range ballistic solution.

edit: and then there's always the argument of "get the Vortex and $400 in classes"

edit2: also, I have yet to see a ballistic solution for my 77s that goes lower than 4 mils inside 500 or so yards, another argument for the VX-6 or NXS illum mil dot -

 

[BobD]

Re: Movin' on up to a 1-4x optic in the citaaaaay

Have you given any consideration to SWFA's 1-4 or upcoming 1-6? Both look well designed for speed and usability on 1x where the reticle gets really small. Appear to be both be very well thought out, specifically with their circle and post models (illuminated donut with mil scale I believe they call it). Also, in line (price wise) with the other models you're looking at is Vortex's Razor 1-4, should be a step up from the PST.
I believe these are all exposed turret models though. I don't know if that disqualifies them for you but all have proven to be highly regarded.

Good luck with your search

 

[Boxerglocker]

Re: Movin' on up to a 1-4x optic in the citaaaaay

I have an older Vortex 1-4PST with a MOA reticle on my 16 inch DDM4V2 carbine. It's a great optic and primarily used for multi-gun matches and training classes. I have used it with a good 55g SP hand load I have for prairie dog hunting all the way out to 300 yards in dog towns out in Montana.
For the money it IMO cannot be beat clarity is good, tracks well, the illumination is it's weak point though. The range is weak at low setting and tends to wash out in bright sunlight. Not an issue for my uses. I like the exposed turrets as opposed to the newer versions that are capped.
Regardless of which optic you chose, depending on your rifle be aware off issues with mount issues with certain types of mounts. For example the Vortex has issues with clearance on a Bobro if installing a switchview. I had the Bobro extended initially and came across the problem myself. Switched to a Larue on a trade and resolved my issues.

 

[oldrifleman]

Re: Movin' on up to a 1-4x optic in the citaaaaay

I have the VX-6 1-6 with the luminated german on my Ar. I like the scope, it is in a bobro mount and is bright and clear. Steven

 

[glock24]

Re: Movin' on up to a 1-4x optic in the citaaaaay

I've been through many, many 1-4x optics, and always felt underpowered at ranges beyond 300 meters. Any type of ranging reticle calibrated at 4x is just too small.

My advice, skip the 1-4x, and yourself at least a 1-6x. Or keep a traditional powered scope and add an offset-mounted Aimpoint micro.

 

[Bedlam]

Re: Movin' on up to a 1-4x optic in the citaaaaay

I agree with glock24. 4x is pretty low power for the longer ranges I assume you are shooting at with your 77gr handloads. Try using your Horus set to 4x at your longer distance targets and ask yourself if that is acceptable.

A do-it-all scope is by definition going to be a compromise. Maybe you could get by with a 1-10x, but that's going to a completely different budget.