Suggestions Helping a Young Lady Afraid to Shoot

[76CLE76]

Thanks to all who take the time to read this and reply. I am at my wits end on how to get my daughter to get past a mental block and am open to about anything, aside from punishment.

She is 17 and has been shooting for almost five years. Knows and practices BRM. Is a very good shot. Learned to shoot with a .22LR open sights and progressed up to a .270 with scope w/in a year. Did not used to have a problem with the .270. In case anyone is interested, the rifle is a Tikka T3 Lite. Put about 50 rounds through it stock with absolutely no problem before adding a LimbSaver and muzzle brake. She has put a couple hundred rounds through it since then with no problem. With a good load she can group 1/2 to 3/4 inch at 100 yards (stock barrel.)
However, the past four or so visits to the range she's become increasingly hesitant and now won't shoot.
After practicing with snap caps and then going to live rounds, it's become very apparent she's become afraid of the the live bullet going off. If she thinks she has enough pressure on the trigger she flinches, but she never puts enough pressure on to actually shoot.
She says, "My brain tells my finger to shoot but it doesn't."
She has no problem at all with a .22LR or .22MAG.
The only thing I can think of is to load a reduced load and try to work back up from that.
I just don't get it and would appreciate any help.
Thank you!

 

[wilecoyote]

Re: Suggestions Helping a Young Lady Afraid to Shoot

...absolutely no problem before adding a LimbSaver and MUZZLE BRAKE. She has put a couple hundred rounds through it since then...
She says, "My brain tells my finger to shoot but it doesn't."
She has no problem at all with a .22LR or .22MAG.[/quote] the BLAST of the muzzle brake can be more intimidating than the real recoil without it_ (in my limited experiences,the concussion,not the recoil,is what more disturb me shooting .454Casull or .460S&W revolvers,no matter what hearing protection I can have_) ...only my 2c...and 2 more about a un-braked 7-08,if she can and will try...

 

[wilecoyote]

Re: Suggestions Helping a Young Lady Afraid to Shoot

don't "push" her to shoot any damn'd SCOPED light.270_shooting must be a pleasure,and if this girl enjoy .22s,let her play with them_if you have un-braked rifles (or friend's rifles) under the .308Win. limit,let her try,without "pushing",of course_ aside the recoil,in my opinion for a beginner the only thing more conditioning than the blast of a braked rifle is the fear of a scope goin' rearward to the eye as immediate consequence of the blast_

 

[bassani]

Re: Suggestions Helping a Young Lady Afraid to Shoot


My 2 cents:

I think recoil would be low on the list with the caliber and limb saver unless she is really really petite.

are you wanting her to hunt? im guessing that's why you are moving her up in caliber. If so, she could possibly not want to kill animals and if she cant shoot the higher caliber, then she doesnt have to hunt and kill an animal.

the noise from the muzzle brake could be subconsciously causing the issue. are you having her wear good ear protection? that would eliminate this possibility.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: Suggestions Helping a Young Lady Afraid to Shoot

Take the .22 along, and let her shoot what she wants to shoot. In other words, let her direct or map out her own journey, you need to let go.

 

[WillAdams]

Re: Suggestions Helping a Young Lady Afraid to Shoot

Give her a 10/22 w/ lots of tri-mags or an AR180 and all the ammo she can shoot !! I'd rather have someone comfortable w/ a small arms than scared of any arms. 10 well placed shots of .22 in defense distance can & will ruin attackers day ! Last person I was helping trained had problems with noise & "Recoil". When I took out a 22LR kit on a P220 frame they had a BLAST !!! They were calling their hits on the 100 yd steel. BTW, the young lady is still in HS !

 

[Ledzep]

Re: Suggestions Helping a Young Lady Afraid to Shoot

When I was 10-12 I remember preferring to shoot my big heavy long Turk Mauser instead of my dad's 308 a-bolt because the 308 had a BOSS brake on it that rattled me.

Maybe lose the brake or try something in between like a little 223.

 

[wilecoyote]

Re: Suggestions Helping a Young Lady Afraid to Shoot

please,forgive me one plain thinking,more:given that at 17 the eyesight is far better than at 50,,being the young eyes more sensible and responsive to the light, no reason to underestimate the hearing sensibility of a really young girl, even if some of us,unfortunately,are more deafened,or as I prefer say, accustomed to the blast...

 

[Killer Spade 13]

Re: Suggestions Helping a Young Lady Afraid to Shoot

Get one of those inexpensive .17's and slowly move upwards in caliber.

 

[stranded]

Re: Suggestions Helping a Young Lady Afraid to Shoot

Did her body "mature"causing the stock to not fit or butt placement to change? Small changes can cause felt recoil to increase. Just another thought.

 

[fargo007]

Re: Suggestions Helping a Young Lady Afraid to Shoot

I agree it's gotta be fun or she will avoid it.

I would say stick with the .22's also until she is ready to try something else.

Next move up for longer distance you might consider a .223, like an M4/AR15. A collapsible buttstock will let her fit it to herself comfortably, and you can justifiably point out that the recoil is not so different than a .22.

This is what I did with my wife and it worked great. We hit a hard stop line at .308 class guns, but you know what? that's fine. She can shoot whatever she likes.

--Fargo007

 

[76CLE76]

Re: Suggestions Helping a Young Lady Afraid to Shoot

Thank you all for your replies.
I know not to push her. Have made a conscious effort to avoid that. Yes, she wants to hunt. Has been with me hunting several times, enjoys it ans wants to herself.
It appears from some of the replies that some may have missed that she has put a couple hundred rounds through the rifle in its current configuration with no problem. She used to give me shit whenever we went to the range and she grouped better than I.
Appreciate the insight from a couple folks on two things:
Her body has changed (whose doesn't?) going from 13 to 17, so that may have to do somewhat with comfort.
Hadn't though of the blast being more of a problem than the recoil. We always wear good hearing protection but earplugs under the ear muffs may help.
Thanks again for the replies.

 

[dbateman]

Re: Suggestions Helping a Young Lady Afraid to Shoot

One more for the muzzle blast.

Maybe get her a 223

By the sounds of it you're doing the right thing just let her have fun.

 

[76CLE76]

Re: Suggestions Helping a Young Lady Afraid to Shoot

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dbateman™</div><div class="ubbcode-body">One more for the muzzle blast.
Maybe get her a 223
By the sounds of it you're doing the right thing just let her have fun. </div></div>
The more I think about it, it may be the muzzle blast. So thanks again to those who brought that up. She does not like being at the range when others are shooting. Although it still befuckles me why it's a problem now but not before. We're going out again (early) this Sunday w/ reduced recoil loads and will have her use earplugs under the earmuffs.
.223 would be good for the range and small game, but illegal to use for large game in Colorado.
And, even if she ultimately decides she wants to avoid the high-powered rifles, she'll still come hunting with me. She's a good partner. She planned the stalk and was my spotter first time I took an elk.

 

[wilecoyote]

Re: Suggestions Helping a Young Lady Afraid to Shoot

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 76CLE76</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dbateman™</div><div class="ubbcode-body">One more for the muzzle blast.
Maybe get her a 223
By the sounds of it you're doing the right thing just let her have fun. </div></div>
The more I think about it, it may be the muzzle blast. So thanks again to those who brought that up. She does not like being at the range when others are shooting. Although it still befuckles me why it's a problem now but not before. We're going out again (early) this Sunday w/ reduced recoil loads and will have her use earplugs under the earmuffs.
.223 would be good for the range and small game, but illegal to use for large game in Colorado.
And, even if she ultimately decides she wants to avoid the high-powered rifles, she'll still come hunting with me. She's a good partner. She planned the stalk and was my spotter first time I took an elk. </div></div>The problem is now and not before because she's a shooting enthusiast lady,perhaps utterly concerned,given the age,to please his father,too_generally speaking,the effects of the any blast are of interest not only of the hearing apparatus,because the shock wave can produce a concussive effect on the entire body,brain box included_concussion intended as trauma (g.e.:a "silent" faceslap)_the conscious will can overcome the effects of a light trauma,at first,repeating this an indefinite number of times_BUT: the deepest body self-defense system,if solicitated an unbearable number of times,now or later will provide to overcome the same coscient will,"flickin'the switch"_when,even if super-hearmuffed,I flinch after the third .454casull drum,that's the reason:I'm not deafened,ok,but my head is aching by the blast_ when ol'timers says that, on average willing but untrained males,the only recoil of a 300WM can develop bad shootin'habits, the reason behind their words is that the body will try to escape to an unnatural solicitation,undependently from the newcomer's (adult)will_ _when I have finded my left leg "unwillingly" refuse to kickstart my same old bike,after one zillion of kickstarts and two zillion of knee-painful failures,that's the reason behind it (god bless the button option..)_if you add to my silly examples the very "special" age of this young lady,I think the mistery can be easily explained,as I'm sure that can bein' infinite legal caliber options ,for a HAPPY,and ACCURATE shooter,to down any deer she WILL hunt_ I hope can help_

 

[76CLE76]

Re: Suggestions Helping a Young Lady Afraid to Shoot

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wilecoyote</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The problem is now and not before because she's a shooting enthusiast lady,perhaps utterly concerned,given the age,to please his father,too_generally speaking,the effects of the any blast are of interest not only of the hearing apparatus,because the shock wave can produce a concussive effect on the entire body,brain box included_concussion intended as trauma (g.e.:a "silent" faceslap)_the conscious will can overcome the effects of a light trauma,at first,repeating this an indefinite number of times_BUT: the deepest body self-defense system,if solicitated an unbearable number of times,now or later will provide to overcome the same coscient will,"flickin'the switch"_when,even if super-hearmuffed,I flinch after the third .454casull drum,that's the reason:I'm not deafened,ok,but my head is aching by the blast_ when ol'timers says that, on average willing but untrained males,the only recoil of a 300WM can develop bad shootin'habits, the reason behind their words is that the body will try to escape to an unnatural solicitation,undependently from the newcomer's (adult)will_ _when I have finded my left leg "unwillingly" refuse to kickstart my same old bike,after one zillion of kickstarts and two zillion of knee-painful failures,that's the reason behind it (god bless the button option..)_if you add to my silly examples the very "special" age of this young lady,I think the mistery can be easily explained,as I'm sure that can bein' infinite legal caliber options ,for a HAPPY,and ACCURATE shooter,to down any deer she WILL hunt_ I hope can help_ </div></div>
So I think what you're saying is that if the blast bothers you, after a while you just get sick of it and your brain and body refuse to subject you to it(?)

 

[a220stw]

Re: Suggestions Helping a Young Lady Afraid to Shoot

i also think it could be the muzzle blast.
i know i hate shooting anything with a break.
i agree with what has been said, stay with .22 and work up from there if she will.

 

[ddavis]

Re: Suggestions Helping a Young Lady Afraid to Shoot

My wife loves to shoot .22's, but won't shoot anything bigger. She HATES the concussion of the muzzle blast, braked or not. Find something with less recoil that does not require a brake, such as a .223, and once she gets comfortable with that, maybe get her started on the 270 again with a light load and NO brake.

 

[wilecoyote]

Re: Suggestions Helping a Young Lady Afraid to Shoot

So I think what you're saying is that if the blast bothers you, after a while you just get sick of it and your brain and body refuse to subject you to it(?) [/quote]_
Yes,I say that,even if,unfortunately,I'm well over my adolescence years _

 

[GaryOlson]

Re: Suggestions Helping a Young Lady Afraid to Shoot

" She does not like being at the range when others are shooting. Although it still befuckles me why it's a problem now but not before." Young women all become socially self-conscious at different times and in different ways. Over the next 5 years as she progresses thru the college years, I expect this reluctance may become more progressive. It just means she is identifying herself in this world in a different way. Sounds like you have a great relationship; don't worry about it. Just work with the changes.
I expect some day she will tell you about the great time she had hunting with some young man; and will be embarrassed to tell you. She's growning up.

 

[Defcon424]

Re: Suggestions Helping a Young Lady Afraid to Shoot

maybe her interests are changing ? Thats what happens to teenagers and she doesnt know how to tell you

 

[MK75]

Re: Suggestions Helping a Young Lady Afraid to Shoot

Be happy that your daughter enjoys shooting at all. If she isn't feeling the .270 anymore, it sounds to me like you get to shoot it more now. If you push it on her, she will push it away. I learned that the hard way.

 

[skep_tic1]

Re: Suggestions Helping a Young Lady Afraid to Shoot

My suggestion....
Let her read this and let her tell you. If you have the relationship you describe she'll tell you what the deal is no matter what. And NO MATTER WHAT love that princess and let her know that it will be ok!

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Suggestions Helping a Young Lady Afraid to Shoot

Do you leave her alone and let her do her own thing? What are her ideas on the cause and the solution?

Greg

 

[10generation]

Re: Suggestions Helping a Young Lady Afraid to Shoot

Go down in caliber, help her find the fun again. Find some fun things to shoot - fruit, shaken soda cans, anything the moves and reacts. Take all the pressure off.

 

[JamieD]

Re: Suggestions Helping a Young Lady Afraid to Shoot

Noise and caliber. My doughter moved to a .223 that was suppressed from her 22lr and had no problems and a great time shooting. If I remove the suppressor she starts to flinch. I think noise itself can play a big part or it.
That said, nobody likes recoil, bump down a couple notches in caliber and let her learn the art of marksmenship and enjoy shooting while doing so.

Good Luck,

JamieD

 

[Dagsta]

Re: Suggestions Helping a Young Lady Afraid to Shoot

I remember some time ago a great instructor telling me that the human mind is in no way programmed to ignore an explosion going off in your face. Flinch is a natural reaction that takes a lot of time and practice to overcome.

I had never thought of it that way before but makes perfectly good sense. My daughters had issues with flinching when they were 13 or so. I continued to have them dry fire. Then I would have them look away and I would load the weapon alternating live with dummy rounds. Took some time but it worked through the flinching.

Time and patience is required especially with girls. When it clicks in their minds that they are really flinching, they tend to start focusing with the drills and the results improve. As the results improve it imbeds in their minds the cause and action that produced good results.

Be patient and take it slow. It works!!

 

[nervous]

Re: Suggestions Helping a Young Lady Afraid to Shoot

A Remington LTR in 223rem is what moved my daughter up too after the 22lr, and she is 20 years old.

Nervous

 

[SCUBA Steve]

Re: Suggestions Helping a Young Lady Afraid to Shoot

I'm going to have to agree with many of the posts above and say that the pressure from the brake may be causing a bit of the problem, possibly even the noise too. If you think the sound may be the issue you could get her some ear plugs to wear under a pair of ear muffs. I would have gone at the recoil but you had stated that she hadn't had any problems prior with that rifle. If it's at all an option maybe a suppressor would help, will reduce recoil, the pressure coming back at you, and the noise. Just my two cents.... Or maybe try getting her a .223 rifle, they don't have much/any real recoil, or at least it's not as sharp of a recoil, not much barometric pressure in your face even with a brake, but it's just as loud.

 

[mis-guided child2]

Re: Suggestions Helping a Young Lady Afraid to Shoot

I'm saying its the brake as well. I experienced a very similar response from my daughter.
I even double ear pro'd her (plugs and muffs) to no avail. She conveyed to me that she could actually feel the "boom" in her chest. While this was several years ago and on a braked 308, she could go straight to her unbraked 243 and be just fine. To this date, if she's around a braked rifle being shot she puts her hand in the center of her chest as if she's blocking the "boom". I think it's certainly plausible that some people, and probably even more so with the ladies, are more sensitive to the different impulses perceived from muzzle blast.

 

[stranded]

Re: Suggestions Helping a Young Lady Afraid to Shoot

76CLE76, I see sometime has passed ,did you find an answer to your daughters problem? I'm thinking if you did it might help others who run into the same problem. I know I'm curious.

 

[Merc8541]

Re: Suggestions Helping a Young Lady Afraid to Shoot

Just ride out all the small calibers 22,22mag, 17HMR, and eventually move her up to a 223. Crawl, Walk, Run. She will get it. Make sure when she is ready to move up to the bigger guns that you set them up for her so scope bite doesn't get her.

 

[Flying Goose]

Re: Suggestions Helping a Young Lady Afraid to Shoot

Great advice heres another good one that I've found with Nephews that I've taught to shoot as young as 6, use the metal targets something as simple as this the link below, I found that not only where they not as worried about the kick they loved hearing the auditory feedback when they hit it. I know a 17 year old is not a 7 year old but at 30 I too appreciate the feel of hitting metal over plinking on paper. Just two more cents for you.

(http://www.cabelas.com/product/Shooting/Shooting-Accessories/Targets-Chronographs|/pc/104792580/c/104769180/sc/104625180/Birchwood-Casey-Shooting-Targets/733523.uts?destination=%2Fcatalog%2Fbrowse%2Fshooting-shooting-accessories-targets-chronographs%2F_%2FN-1100227%3FWT.srch%3D1%26WT.tsrc%3DPPC%26WT.mc_id%3Dgoogle|sho_Shooting%2BAccessories_Targets%2BChronograph|USA%26WT.z_mc_id1%3Ds5PwJ4eun%26rid%3D20%26pcrid%3D8700077697&WTz_l=PPC%3Bcat104625180)

 

[WinXD]

Re: Suggestions Helping a Young Lady Afraid to Shoot

It took my girlfriend nearly two years of shooting .22lr to finally be able to shoot .223. It was the noise that bothered her so much. She wouldn't shoot at the bench next to me if i was using my .223.

She finally gave in and shot my Rem 700 and actually enjoyed it. Now she'll ask to take a few shots when we go to the range but always defaults to her .22.

I think its important to allow someone to move at their own pace. She may never like anything more than .22 and that's ok.

 

[Jhnmdahl]

Re: Suggestions Helping a Young Lady Afraid to Shoot

A .270 with a brake is a lot of muzzle blast, and a huge jump from a .22. Maybe consider a .223 as others here have suggested, or a .243 if she ever intends to hunt with you. A lot of people love the new 6.5mm calibers (6.5 Creedmoor, .260), either of which would be a good do-anything round.

But, avoid the muzzle brake since you know she's sensitive to that, and don't go too light on whatever rifle you end up with.

 

[creids98292]

Try lots of dry fire to improve muscle memory and then move to snap caps. Then go hot on her terms, hopefully with a heavy 12+lb 223. Let her shoot something that reacts (steel, eggs, balloons, oranges, prairie dogs). The biggest thing is not to scare or overwelm her, if you think its partially muzzle blast try a can. Im sure someone on the hide lives close to you and has access to one.
I went through this with an ex.

 

[Jay5oh]

Thank you all for your replies.
I know not to push her. Have made a conscious effort to avoid that. Yes, she wants to hunt. Has been with me hunting several times, enjoys it ans wants to herself.
It appears from some of the replies that some may have missed that she has put a couple hundred rounds through the rifle in its current configuration with no problem. She used to give me shit whenever we went to the range and she grouped better than I.
Appreciate the insight from a couple folks on two things:
Her body has changed (whose doesn't?) going from 13 to 17, so that may have to do somewhat with comfort.
Hadn't though of the blast being more of a problem than the recoil. We always wear good hearing protection but earplugs under the ear muffs may help.
Thanks again for the replies.

That was going to be my suggestion

 

[steveptr]

22lr or 17hmr bolt gun.

 

[cmh2007]

go to a .223 from the .22lr...baby steps

 

[seanh]

take the muzzle brake off since she didn't have a problem with it before, then add weight to the rifle