Do you guys use the expander ball when resizing your brass?
Or do you remove it and just let the bushing do the work?
Or do you remove it and just let the bushing do the work?
- Thread starter SONIC SAAMI
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Re: Use the expander ball or no???
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Temp9</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If it's a bushing die, I don't use it. Kind of ruins half the point of a bushing die.
If it's a standard die, the I do use the expander. </div></div>
Pretty much what he says.
I use bushing dies for most of my ammo, but use the expander ball for dinged in brass I get from my semi-autos, or from the range.
Chris
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Temp9</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If it's a bushing die, I don't use it. Kind of ruins half the point of a bushing die.
If it's a standard die, the I do use the expander. </div></div>
Pretty much what he says.
I use bushing dies for most of my ammo, but use the expander ball for dinged in brass I get from my semi-autos, or from the range.
Chris
Re: Use the expander ball or no???
I do use an expander ball (slightly modified carbide type) with my bushing dies, but it's a world of difference between what most expect to see/feel when you mention "expander balls." I use a bushing that sizes the neck to a dimension that allows the expander to pass back through the now-resized neck with only the faintest touch. Just about enough that I can tell when it passes through the neck, nothing more. If there's any real resistance, you need a slightly larger neck bushing, to the point where that "faint passage" is felt. I use these since any variance in neck wall thickness is transfered to the inside of the case neck when a case is sized without an expander ball. This, in extreme cases, can give varying degrees of neck tension, which is precisely what I'm trying to avoid. The expander ball simply transfers whatever variance there may be back to the outside of the case neck, and gives somewhat more uniform neck tension.
Different strokes, and just throwing this one out for you to consider.
I do use an expander ball (slightly modified carbide type) with my bushing dies, but it's a world of difference between what most expect to see/feel when you mention "expander balls." I use a bushing that sizes the neck to a dimension that allows the expander to pass back through the now-resized neck with only the faintest touch. Just about enough that I can tell when it passes through the neck, nothing more. If there's any real resistance, you need a slightly larger neck bushing, to the point where that "faint passage" is felt. I use these since any variance in neck wall thickness is transfered to the inside of the case neck when a case is sized without an expander ball. This, in extreme cases, can give varying degrees of neck tension, which is precisely what I'm trying to avoid. The expander ball simply transfers whatever variance there may be back to the outside of the case neck, and gives somewhat more uniform neck tension.
Different strokes, and just throwing this one out for you to consider.
Re: Use the expander ball or no???
Brass exhibits springback from whatever its last working process was. If it was an expansion, that springback will result in contraction, and vice-versa.
Neck sizing is a simplified effort to reestablish clearance and tension relationships that are not simple.
All neck resizing begins with contraction from the final diameter that springback produced following firing, regardless of whether that resizing is done by a bushing die or a fixed neck diameter resizing die.
Once the brass springs back from that contraction, a baseline diameter exists.
If that diameter is adequate to provide both a reasonable degree of neck tension, and a neck expansion clearance that allows free bullet release withing the confines of the chamber neck, no further working is needed.
If neck tension/seating force is too great, an expender ball can be useful; but the overall diameter with the bullet seated must still allow for sufficient neck expansion within the chamber neck to release the bullet without generating overpressures.
As with other stages in the handloading cycle, excessive force required to either expand the neck or seat the bullet are warning signs that something excessive is going on as part of the process.
Greg
Brass exhibits springback from whatever its last working process was. If it was an expansion, that springback will result in contraction, and vice-versa.
Neck sizing is a simplified effort to reestablish clearance and tension relationships that are not simple.
All neck resizing begins with contraction from the final diameter that springback produced following firing, regardless of whether that resizing is done by a bushing die or a fixed neck diameter resizing die.
Once the brass springs back from that contraction, a baseline diameter exists.
If that diameter is adequate to provide both a reasonable degree of neck tension, and a neck expansion clearance that allows free bullet release withing the confines of the chamber neck, no further working is needed.
If neck tension/seating force is too great, an expender ball can be useful; but the overall diameter with the bullet seated must still allow for sufficient neck expansion within the chamber neck to release the bullet without generating overpressures.
As with other stages in the handloading cycle, excessive force required to either expand the neck or seat the bullet are warning signs that something excessive is going on as part of the process.
Greg
Re: Use the expander ball or no???
I neck size with a Lee collet die. No expanding or lube required.
For brass I F/L size I use the F/L die with the ball removed and expand with a Mandrel type die. Lots straighter results than pulling a ball back through the neck.
That said, for my volume loaded .223, it gets sized/trimmed with the Dillon RT and then expanded with a mandrel die in Sta 1 when I change the press to "reload mode" from "process mode".
In short, expander balls can be OK at best. They follow the weakest part of the case neck when withdrawn and can yield some awful crooked cases compared with the no ball methods of sizing cases.
I neck size with a Lee collet die. No expanding or lube required.
For brass I F/L size I use the F/L die with the ball removed and expand with a Mandrel type die. Lots straighter results than pulling a ball back through the neck.
That said, for my volume loaded .223, it gets sized/trimmed with the Dillon RT and then expanded with a mandrel die in Sta 1 when I change the press to "reload mode" from "process mode".
In short, expander balls can be OK at best. They follow the weakest part of the case neck when withdrawn and can yield some awful crooked cases compared with the no ball methods of sizing cases.
Re: Use the expander ball or no???
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kevin Thomas</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I do use an expander ball (slightly modified carbide type) with my bushing dies, but it's a world of difference between what most expect to see/feel when you mention "expander balls." I use a bushing that sizes the neck to a dimension that allows the expander to pass back through the now-resized neck with only the faintest touch. Just about enough that I can tell when it passes through the neck, nothing more. If there's any real resistance, you need a slightly larger neck bushing, to the point where that "faint passage" is felt. I use these since any variance in neck wall thickness is transfered to the inside of the case neck when a case is sized without an expander ball. This, in extreme cases, can give varying degrees of neck tension, which is precisely what I'm trying to avoid. The expander ball simply transfers whatever variance there may be back to the outside of the case neck, and gives somewhat more uniform neck tension.
Different strokes, and just throwing this one out for you to consider. </div></div>
What Kevin describes is what Zediker describes in his reloading book "Handloading for Competition". If you uniform the case necks and don't ding them up, you can and should go the bushing only route. Some will also resize in two steps as it is supposed to result in more concentric ammo.
When reloading .308, I use Lapua brass and the carbide expander just barely touches the inside of the necks with a .336 bushing. By comparison, when reloading Winchester brass I really notice the variations in case neck thickness by the varying resistance on the expander. In that case, it's better to use an expander or else your bullet will serve that purpose which doesn't help accuracy.
Zediker does an excellent job discussing the pros and cons of each approach.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kevin Thomas</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I do use an expander ball (slightly modified carbide type) with my bushing dies, but it's a world of difference between what most expect to see/feel when you mention "expander balls." I use a bushing that sizes the neck to a dimension that allows the expander to pass back through the now-resized neck with only the faintest touch. Just about enough that I can tell when it passes through the neck, nothing more. If there's any real resistance, you need a slightly larger neck bushing, to the point where that "faint passage" is felt. I use these since any variance in neck wall thickness is transfered to the inside of the case neck when a case is sized without an expander ball. This, in extreme cases, can give varying degrees of neck tension, which is precisely what I'm trying to avoid. The expander ball simply transfers whatever variance there may be back to the outside of the case neck, and gives somewhat more uniform neck tension.
Different strokes, and just throwing this one out for you to consider. </div></div>
What Kevin describes is what Zediker describes in his reloading book "Handloading for Competition". If you uniform the case necks and don't ding them up, you can and should go the bushing only route. Some will also resize in two steps as it is supposed to result in more concentric ammo.
When reloading .308, I use Lapua brass and the carbide expander just barely touches the inside of the necks with a .336 bushing. By comparison, when reloading Winchester brass I really notice the variations in case neck thickness by the varying resistance on the expander. In that case, it's better to use an expander or else your bullet will serve that purpose which doesn't help accuracy.
Zediker does an excellent job discussing the pros and cons of each approach.
Re: Use the expander ball or no???
I've had good luck with the floating carbide expander ball on my redding dies.
I've had good luck with the floating carbide expander ball on my redding dies.
Re: Use the expander ball or no???
I do use Reddings excellent floating carbide expander with my Type S dies, my Surgeon Action dents every single case on ejection, the expander barely touches on the way out, thank you Monte for enlightening me.
I do use Reddings excellent floating carbide expander with my Type S dies, my Surgeon Action dents every single case on ejection, the expander barely touches on the way out, thank you Monte for enlightening me.
Re: Use the expander ball or no???
if for obscure reasons I can't avoid it,redding w.tapered sizing button_if I can have a choice,far better a separate step with a real Sinclair mandrel expander die_
if for obscure reasons I can't avoid it,redding w.tapered sizing button_if I can have a choice,far better a separate step with a real Sinclair mandrel expander die_
Re: Use the expander ball or no???
Been doing it the way Mr. Thomas describes for years... I keep trying other things, but keep coming back to what works with the least number of extra steps.
Been doing it the way Mr. Thomas describes for years... I keep trying other things, but keep coming back to what works with the least number of extra steps.
Re: Use the expander ball or no???
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: distantfoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I've had good luck with the floating carbide expander ball on my redding dies.
</div></div>
I also using the same process as you.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: distantfoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I've had good luck with the floating carbide expander ball on my redding dies.
</div></div>
I also using the same process as you.
Re: Use the expander ball or no???
I have a hybrid view of this. I take a fired case with no dings in case mouth,use bushing dies with no expander and size to propper neck tension. Then i take an extra stem with regular expander on it,place it in drill press and using sandpaper followed by steel wool polish it till it slips through sized neck with no resistence. This method allows me to get the dings out of the brass that gets a lil jacked up at matches without blowin my neck tension back out on withdrawl.
I have a hybrid view of this. I take a fired case with no dings in case mouth,use bushing dies with no expander and size to propper neck tension. Then i take an extra stem with regular expander on it,place it in drill press and using sandpaper followed by steel wool polish it till it slips through sized neck with no resistence. This method allows me to get the dings out of the brass that gets a lil jacked up at matches without blowin my neck tension back out on withdrawl.
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