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.308 out to a mile

Re: .308 out to a mile

Just because it's capable of reaching a mile doesn't make it a good caliber to do it with ballistically speaking. Yes we killed people at 1400 plus with our .308s but I wouldn't choose it for those distances.
 
Re: .308 out to a mile

There is a proper tool for every job.

You can install a roof with hammer and nails but a nail gun works better.
 
Re: .308 out to a mile

Yes the 308 is a very capable gun, maybe not at that distance ideally. Dial it back a bit and the 308 is a fine caliber.

Most people, myself included, underestimate most calibers capabilities that are out there. The modern rifle is more capable than we give it credit. We tend to take for gospel what the some computer software tells us or what some yahoo on Wikipedia says. Real life situations tend to trump Wikipedia and a piece of paper that a computer spits out.
 
Re: .308 out to a mile

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jordan0317</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just because it's capable of reaching a mile doesn't make it a good caliber to do it with ballistically speaking. Yes we killed people at 1400 plus with our .308s but I wouldn't choose it for those distances. </div></div>
who is "we"?
 
Re: .308 out to a mile

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: stalski</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is a proper tool for every job.

You can install a roof with A hammer and nails but a nail gun works better.

</div></div>
 
Re: .308 out to a mile

Not to be smart but I believe 'We' refers to Marine Scout Snipers.

1400m+ with 7.62x51mm is doable and has been done. But as some one said earlier...well looks like you quoted it already.
 
Re: .308 out to a mile

Yes by "we" I mean me and the other hogs in my platoon on our last afghan pump. We just made sure that at lead two of us were engaging said target to boost the odds of actually getting a hit.
 
Re: .308 out to a mile

Its possible if you have a lot of elevation and then some on your reticle. I think they weren't at sea level for sure based on the numbers I heard on the yt video. I am curious what load the gasser was shooting though. I didn't run numbers but at my elevation the velocity would be 2700fps

J
 
Re: .308 out to a mile

308_traj-1.jpg
 
Re: .308 out to a mile

that picture is plain old fantastic
smile.gif


i agree with surgeon regarding the thought that we underestimate most calibers these days. people get too caught up with the newest whiz bang caliber, gun, glass, gadget, etc. people seem to foget what some cailbers are capable of in the hands of a good rifleman.
 
Re: .308 out to a mile

I was speaking with a member last night and we were discussing the 308. Of course there are better calibers out there that can do better at certain things. Any one that shoots the 308 knows that it is a difficult round to shoot in the wind. So to shoot the 308, one must be good or get good at reading and making good wind calls. The 308 does not need to be chased as far as tuning like many other calibers i.e. the 260 or the 6.5's. because the 308 is easier on barrels. Basically what I am saying is there are no free lunches in this sport. You can buy the 308 and get good at making wind calls or buy a 260 or some other rifle that you do not necessarily have to be great a wind calling and continue to chase the gun to keep it tuned.

For me, I'll take the 308. Out to about 1,300 it is good for steel. 700 - 800 yrds it is a good caliber for game. I would rather be good a calling the wind than to have a gun that I had to chase to keep tuned.

The 308 is no slouch. We, myself included, look for the easy road in so many adventures that we take on. Like I said above, there "Are no Free Lunches" in the sport of long range shooting. Either chase the tune or get good a calling the wind, your choice.

I love it when I see people tell a new comer that it is good to begin with a 308, like the 308 is a good caliber for beginners. It is a good caliber to learn on. But what they are getting at is that later they can step up to a caliber that has a higher BC, faster, and so on. What they are not telling the young shooter, is that there are plenty of negatives to those rifles as well, i.e. keeping it tuned up. The 308 is a great caliber to learn on, no doubt. But if you stick with it and really learn how to shoot it, by the end, you'll be good a making those wind calls that always seem to have us pulling our hair out.
 
Re: .308 out to a mile

Back to shooting taliban @ 1400. I wasnevr aware the recored for a cnfirmed kill was the shot taken bi Shadow team in Ramadi I think. Do not remember the name of the shooter was around 1200 meters. They were in the 3rd INF Division
 
Re: .308 out to a mile

That got surpassed a long time ago. The record is actually a Brit that was in musa qaleh afghan in November 2009, 2.47 km by a corporal Craig Harrison. He actually killed two guys that day at that distance. So no, 1200 is chump change.
 
Re: .308 out to a mile

Chump change in regards to records as was brought up in a previous post but not really all that challenging with good data and a grasp of wind calls
 
Re: .308 out to a mile

67.jpg


BTW, BEFORE YOU:

1) were a twinkle in your Dad's eye

2) were fussing at your Mom for the remote, that you misplaced in the basement, so that you could
rub one out to the Disney Channel hotties

'76-'86

Taught '85-'86 Stone Bay... Old School 8541

PA020074.jpg


You sound like a snot-nosed PIG, not someone that has earned their Hog's Tooth.



<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jordan0317</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Chump change in regards to records as was brought up in a previous post but not really all that challenging with good data and a grasp of wind calls </div></div>

 
Re: .308 out to a mile

I earned my tooth man and I wasn't tryin to offend anyone so I don't really see the need for a post like that. That's good shit you were an instructor there, itswhere I went through but it's at Geiger now. All the old school class pics were in the back in a storage closet cuz most had the big ass ss in em, pretty cool seein all those old pics
 
Re: .308 out to a mile

I agree with Surgeon. I've never served, and my only little
claim to fame is that I used to be a small town policeman.
But Lord have mercy fellas, any high powered rifle will do the
job. Especially so, at under 500 yrds. Which "I" consider
500 yrds one hell of a long way. Im pretty much a firm
believer in bullet placement. But, then again fellas I really
dont know much at all about long range sniping.
I just really believe any high powered rifle is dangerous and deadly as hell.
 
Re: .308 out to a mile

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jordan0317</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That got surpassed a long time ago. The record is actually a Brit that was in musa qaleh afghan in November 2009, 2.47 km by a corporal Craig Harrison. He actually killed two guys that day at that distance. So no, 1200 is chump change. </div></div>

I believe para1505 was referring to the longest confirmed with 7.62x51mm. I believe Staff Sergeant Jim Gilliland as publicly held this for some time. However both those records have in fact been surpassed in the past years. To my knowledge and understanding many units have chosen not to release this information in an attempt to avoid any drama that inevitably will surround this topic. Other than publicity the units and troops stand to gain little from releasing that info. I think in the coming years it will surface but for the most part the men who are in this line of work are fairly low key when it comes down to it.

As far as the comment that 1200 is "chump change" I don't know is that's the right phrase. Killing guys at +1000m isn't easy for sure, but it is certainly not uncommon. I'll certainly agree that the type of warfare in Afghanistan has completely changed the art and science of militarily sniping in the last 10 years. The training, technology and the unique terrain of Afghanistan has lead things to evolved at amazing rate. Shots that would have been considered near impossible a decade ago are now relativity common, the snipers we are producing now are smarter and better equipped than any rifleman in history.
 
Re: .308 out to a mile

When I responded, I was full of Merlot on Doc's Orders {I'm an old man, turned 55 on the 21st). If a little bit is good for me, well hell, what about a little bit MOAR?
icon_smile_wink.gif
.

I don't take lightly with anyone that makes flippant, casual, sea story, yada yada remarks about 7.62/.308 beyond 800yds. Even if they have access to a Haliburton Weather/Ballistics Machine. A .308 projectile starting out at less than 2700fps from a bolt gun is a piece of artillery. It is easily fucked with by fizaks, human error, just plain life or the Lord... oh, Wind is nevar a Mistress of Favor regardless of skill.

Now, having given a half-assed apology for a grape induced response on the interwebs...
If you are ever in the NW Metro-Atlanta area, please stop on by. I do great tri-tip, Boston Butt, London Broil, seafood AND
take your pick of any one of these or the other 33% that ain't shown:

P1010020.jpg


P1010022.jpg


P1010023.jpg


P1010024.jpg


P1010040.jpg


P1010042.jpg


I do taste tests with my last & middle brother as an excuse to get together ever
since we lost our oldest brother: http://www.arlingtoncemetery.net/glsnyder.htm


All of those have been drank and replaced with atleast one bottle. The favored ones have two or more bottles to replace them.
If there's an A.H. Hirsch or a few other esoterics in the pics, sorry, you'll have to pick something else like a 20yr old Pappy Van Winkle or sumpin.

Best to you.







<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jordan0317</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I earned my tooth man and I wasn't tryin to offend anyone so I don't really see the need for a post like that. That's good shit you were an instructor there, itswhere I went through but it's at Geiger now. All the old school class pics were in the back in a storage closet cuz most had the big ass ss in em, pretty cool seein all those old pics </div></div>
 
Re: .308 out to a mile

Sorry for your loss.


On a better note.

Damn! That is some fine sippin whiskey right there!

If I am down in that area, I'll be stopping buy, mind if I bring a friend or two, or three? LOL

Time to get the guns out, tell some good stories, call up the women, and sip on some fine drink.
 
Re: .308 out to a mile

West Texas, about 2700 feet.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CanPopper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm curious at what elevation were they doing it. </div></div>
 
Re: .308 out to a mile

David, sorry to read that about you brother. One hell of a man would be an understatement of him it looks. What is your favorite pick of bourbon you have there. I see quite a few I have tried, several I have not tried. Any of them really stand out to you.
 
Re: .308 out to a mile

Sorry bout your brother. And I might add dayum that's alot of fine spirits. A London broil and some knob creek would be amazing, if I'm ever in the area I'll hold ya to it haha.
 
Re: .308 out to a mile

I thought that shot by the brit was taken with a 300wm or 338lm.. did I hear wrong?
 
Re: .308 out to a mile

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: scythefwd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I thought that shot by the brit was taken with a 300wm or 338lm.. did I hear wrong?
</div></div>

338 AI I believe.
 
Re: .308 out to a mile

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The_Surgeon</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: scythefwd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I thought that shot by the brit was taken with a 300wm or 338lm.. did I hear wrong?
</div></div>

338 AI I believe.</div></div>

As I read it, that is correct.

David, that is a better collection of libations than I have of firearms...damn I wish I had the time and inclination for both.

Regarding the video, I think it's pretty awesome some guys get out and attempt to shoot that far. Especially with .308's. It would be good to get the low down on some issues though, rather than just take it at face value. One of the biggest detractors from being able to shoot that far with a 175 gr. out of a .308 was Crane Naval Surface Warfare Center. Those were the guys who actually said the 175 and the 190 weren't cutting it. In steps Berger and then Sierra with 210's, they didn't cut it. Sierra ends up with the big contract for .300 WM's with a .220 SMK stuffed in them. The reason? Lower BC, therefore more drop, but the bullet remains stable through the transonic range <span style="font-style: italic">AT STANDARD ATMOSPHERIC CONDITIONS.</span> We were shooting .308 175's at 4000 ft. elevation on a cold day and they would not hold close to the target to save our life. Out to 1400m they were really good. Then accuracy dropped off. I always laugh too when I see the 800 yd. line and .308 fall out of the air. It depends on what air they are in.

Stability is very affected by twist (rotational inertia) and altitude. Temperature is one cause of altitude change. The air thickens, it has a lot more effect on the bullet. Rotational inertia is the only way to overcome that.
 
Re: .308 out to a mile

I shot my 6.5 Creedmoor alongside my friend's 308win out to a mile. It is doable but definitely not ideal. Yes, lob it but very inconsistent and no comparison to other calibers with higher BC faster bullets.
 
Re: .308 out to a mile

The other thing to note, is that the 1st guy to hit the steel was the guy with the 300 win mag.
 
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