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New Tactical 308

Savage15

Private
Full Member
Minuteman
Sep 24, 2012
64
0
31
New York
I am looking to buy a new 308 rifle for strictly long range tactical use (ringing steal and shooting targets). I have three rifles in mind Remington 700, Savage 10 and Weatherby Vanguard Series 2.

Here's my criteria:
-heavy barrel
-22" or longer

Eventually I'm going to dress it in a nice tactical stock, and but that won't be for a while.

Anybody have any insight on what exact model I should get?
 
Re: New Tactical 308

All of them would be fine guns for what you are looking to do.

The only reason not to use the Weatherby is the limited availability of aftermarket components such as, extended magazines, stocks, triggers, rails.... The threads are metric too. Not all gunsmiths will work on them. They are similar though, as far as actions go in regards to working on them

Cost is similar to work on the Weatherby's but you may find that some gun smiths will charge you about $50 or so extra for set up because they have to change things up a bit to work on a Weatherby.

The information about the Weatherby was provided to me buy my gun smith. I, or my buddy is, in the same situation as you are. I got a hold of my smith and this is what he had to tell us.
 
Re: New Tactical 308

Thanks for the heads up, I'm not sure how much custom work I want done to it. But there definitely aren't as many aftermarket parts for a Weatherby as there are for Remington or Savage. Have you shot any of them?
 
Re: New Tactical 308

Remington 700 SPS. Its cheap and since you are looking at making it into a long range precision rifle, you won't have that much tied up in the gun when you go to adding a aftermarket stock, truing/blue printing the action and barrel, and etc. Although the SPS does have a need for a better stock.

If you wanted to spend a bit more up front, the R700 XCR Tactical Long Range, Sendero II, the Savage 10 FCP McMillan, Savage 10/110 FCP HS Precision, the Kimber 84 Tactical.
 
Re: New Tactical 308

That's what I'm asking, what do you consider tactical, will help some with their advice of they understood what exactly you mean by tactical, I do not consider shooting steel and targets as tactical but that's just me.
 
Re: New Tactical 308

Out of the 3 Remington 700 has the easiest availability of aftermarket accessories. It has a strong durable action. The SPS Varmint probably will cover all of your criteria. If money isn't too much of an issue I would get a Winchester Mod 70. Plenty of aftermarket parts available. Maybe not quite as many as Rem 700s But you can find anything you want for it.
 
Re: New Tactical 308

I think tactical use is being able to make a cold bore shot in tough conditions out in the field. Since its illegal to shoot people I chose steal so I could hear the hits from very far away.
 
Re: New Tactical 308

A few Remington’s I have experience with, follow the links.

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...235#Post3384235

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...150#Post2749150

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...886#Post3031886

As a side note, the varmint model is almost exactly 100fps faster than the tactical with both shooting equal loads in 155 and 175 grain bullets.
Not sure if the R700 5r is within your budget but it’s another to be considered. If I were starting over I would either pick a 5r or go with the 243 varmint. The 243 will require you to reload to get the distance you want and when so loaded will beat the pants off a 308 any day of the week in both the amount of elevation you will need and the amount of wind you will need to hold/dial. It's also good for several hundred yards more of super-sonic flight, having a ballistic advantage that makes it more accurate at extended distances.
 
Re: New Tactical 308

I was looking at Weatherby for the craftsmanship and I think after looking at the 700 SPS Varmint it is exactly what I want. What do you think about the 1-12" twist rate for 308?
 
Re: New Tactical 308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Savage15</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was looking at Weatherby for the craftsmanship and I think after looking at the 700 SPS Varmint it is exactly what I want. What do you think about the 1-12" twist rate for 308? </div></div>

I have several 308's all but one are 1-12, the hold out is a 1-11.27 custom. I have had zero issues with every bullet I have tried from 110 v-max through the long JLK 180 grain VLD and Bergers 190 VLD. Others on here are using 208 A-Max out of factory 12 twists with no issues. Personally I believe 12's are fine in 308 and so does the Marines, last I knew the Army uses a 11.25 in their rifles. No real reason to go with a faster twist unless you want to shoot subsonic loads for use with a suppressor in my opinion.
 
Re: New Tactical 308

As others have said:

Remington SPS Varmint.

Best starting platform and allows you to build WHATEVER rig you want just by switching stocks, accessories, cutting barrel, etc.

'nuff said.
 
Re: New Tactical 308

Then the 1:12 will be fine. What ever stock you end up with, factory or custom, it will stand a bedding job. Not necessary, but the rifle & you will benefit from it. The 175's are going to work better for you past 600 yards, due to the higher BC. The 168's and 155's will work fine to about 600 yards, further depending on conditions. All around though, the 175's.
 
Re: New Tactical 308

I would pick the Savage, that may just be me. But I like the idea of being able to do the work myself and not have expensive machinery. I would prefer the Savage 10 FCP McMillan. Plus your username is Savage15 might be kind of odd if you are shooting a remington
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In all honesty they are both great guns. I just prefer the Savage. Good luck and happy shooting!
 
Re: New Tactical 308

I already have a couple savage hunting rifles and love them so that's why my user name is what it is. That Savage 10 FCP McMillan is what I wanted its just out of price range right now, and savage doesn't make that same action and barrel in a "regular" stock.
 
Re: New Tactical 308

If you already have Savages it may be another reason to get another Savage as you can hopefully move parts around. Savage did make a 5R 11.25" barreled version of the 10FCP if you're looking for something like that. I've only got a few hundred rounds through mine and the one thing I've noticed about the 5R barrel is it doesn't seem to get dirty. I'm reloading 175 SMKs for it as it just seemed like the obvious choice, though apparently I'm the oddball for using RE-15 instead of Varget for my .308 loads.
 
Re: New Tactical 308

Why not start with the savage 10fcp 5r? they can be had at buds guns for $725 with free shipping. comes with accu stock and trigger. Fyi in search at buds type in 19055. I have one and it will out shoot me all day long.
 
Re: New Tactical 308

That savage seems perfect too. How come they don't have it on savagearms.com ? And what does you guys think about breaking in a barrel? Do you think it's a bunch of bull? I understand the theory behind it that you want to remove the burrs and polish the bore but wont that just come from shooting it any way?
 
Re: New Tactical 308

The 10FCP 5R was discontinued by Savage, I think it was only out for a year or two a few years back. I remember seeing it on the Savage site but when it disappeared I kept an eye on prices and stock. Seems distributors still have some around. I got mine from Bud's, but I think I paid less than $700 in the spring. I'm sure as supplies dwindle they'll bump the price up.

I didn't bother break mine in, it started shooting sub-minute with cheap American Eagle FMJ right out of the box (which I had bought to break it in). Got some surprising data on subsonic loads for it on my last trip to the range (it's going to be a suppressor host).
 
Re: New Tactical 308

There are plenty of options besides .308, especially when you reload, but ammo scarcity can still be an issue. You still need to get brass, meaning you either buy it new, used, or fireform your own from factory ammo. .30 caliber is more ubiquitous so you'd be able to use some of that reloading gear for .30-06, .300 WM, 30-30, etc. The 7mm would also apply since there are quite a few bigger 7mm platforms to expand to, though probably not as many as .30.
 
Re: New Tactical 308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ProImaging</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the savage in the Mcmillan will need the stock bedded. </div></div>

Mine shoots perfectly fine without bedding
 
Re: New Tactical 308

Funny thing is, I already have a Remington 700 in 7mm 08 with a 20 inch sporter barrel. I use it as my deer gun and occasionally to shoot mid long range. And how will the 243 fair at a mile?
 
Re: New Tactical 308

Play way

http://www.jbmballistics.com/ballistics/calculators/calculators.shtml

The bullets that work well in mine are 105 amax and the new 105 bthp both Hornady, also Berger’s 105 VLD. I am getting between 2950 and 3000fps with H1000 plug that into jbm with your weather altitude data for your area. Bullets will shoot good as long as they stay supersonic, after that they "MAY" continue to shoot good... but I can tell you that you will have better luck shooting a 243 at a mile than a 308.

BUT

Since You already have a 7mm-08 you may want to have a rifle smith rebarrel that with a quality replacement barrel set up to shoot 162’s or 168/175 bullets or go with a host of calibers other calibers that will out distance the 308 with better ballistics.
 
Re: New Tactical 308

Get a Remington 5R. It has all the features you need. Cheap and most are real accurate. Also, here is my argument for .308. 7mm-08, all the creedmore rounds, wild cat this wild cat that. They all have the same thing in common. They're fast and accurate but dont have the versatility of .308. They require (for the most part) super long barrels. The .308 can be shot from 16.5" barrels all the way to 32" palma. You get a savage with a 24 or remmy in 22 and if dont like it, you can cut the bastard down to 18" and it will still shoot well. Hell, you can buy an SPS barrel for $90. Also, you can shoot anything from 130 grain all the way to 220 grain. Subsonic suppressed or not. It may be a vintage round thats bested ballistically by everything but you can do anything to it and hand loads, nothing is easier to load for as they all shoot well. Doesnt get any better for a truck rifle either. Folding stock and 18" barrel is a perfect backpack/behind the seat rifle and will still drop a deer at 1000+ yards. Also, you can buy ammo for a .308 even at gas stations and general stores. I have wildcat cartridge rifles but I make sure I keep a .308 at all times, just in case.

Just saying. You can treat your .308 like your sister and it will always love you
 
Re: New Tactical 308

I agree I like the versatility of the 308 more than anything. It fits my needs perfectly and I just ordered the SPS Varmint in 308 so my mind is made. Thanks for the input.
 
Re: New Tactical 308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Savage15</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Funny thing is, I already have a Remington 700 in 7mm 08 with a 20 inch sporter barrel. I use it as my deer gun and occasionally to shoot mid long range. And how will the 243 fair at a mile? </div></div>


at a mile ekkk. that's a lot of restate for a 243
 
Re: New Tactical 308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SavageMOA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Get a Remington 5R. It has all the features you need. Cheap and most are real accurate. Also, here is my argument for .308. 7mm-08, all the creedmore rounds, wild cat this wild cat that. They all have the same thing in common. They're fast and accurate but dont have the versatility of .308. They require (for the most part) super long barrels. The .308 can be shot from 16.5" barrels all the way to 32" palma. You get a savage with a 24 or remmy in 22 and if dont like it, you can cut the bastard down to 18" and it will still shoot well. Hell, you can buy an SPS barrel for $90. Also, you can shoot anything from 130 grain all the way to 220 grain. Subsonic suppressed or not. It may be a vintage round thats bested ballistically by everything but you can do anything to it and hand loads, nothing is easier to load for as they all shoot well. Doesnt get any better for a truck rifle either. Folding stock and 18" barrel is a perfect backpack/behind the seat rifle and will still drop a deer at 1000+ yards. Also, you can buy ammo for a .308 even at gas stations and general stores. I have wildcat cartridge rifles but I make sure I keep a .308 at all times, just in case.

Just saying. You can treat your .308 like your sister and it will always love you </div></div>

I'll also add this. You do not have to worry about chasing a tune on the 308 like that of the 6.5 and other barrel burners.
 
Re: New Tactical 308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cowboy1978</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Savage15</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Funny thing is, I already have a Remington 700 in 7mm 08 with a 20 inch sporter barrel. I use it as my deer gun and occasionally to shoot mid long range. And how will the 243 fair at a mile? </div></div>


at a mile ekkk. that's a lot of restate for a 243 </div></div>

Have to agree with Cowboy.

It will not fair very well at all.
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The angle of impact would be so severe, accuracy would be horrible. I seen a video of a guy taking a 308 out to a mile once. There were 3 shooters, one with a 300 WM, another with a 338, and the guy with the 308. The bigger rifles got on target pretty darn quick. The 308 on the other hand, it took him several shots, 12+ the video showed. Truth be know, I wouldn't be surprised if it took more. When the 308 did hit, it sounded a bit like hitting a tin barn with a peanut. The 243 would be even less. Definitely not the ideal caliber for 1700+ yards. May need to look at the 300's or bigger if this is what you are looking to do with it.

Oh, the 1:12 is fine depending on one thing. What length of bullet do you plan to run? I realize I asked you about weight earlier. Actually it has more to do with length. Then it would depend on weather or not your gun liked the bullet. Seen some 1:12's run the longer bullets and then I have seen others, with that same bullet, that would not.
 
Re: New Tactical 308

Have you seen the Magpul Dynamics video? They took a 18" gas gun in 7.62 out to a mile. The majority of my shots will be between 500 and 1000 yards I just wanted to take it out to a mile at least once. It won't be easy but I'm accepting the challenge.

The bullets I will be using are the 175 SMK, 168 SMK, 185 VLD and possibly the 205 A-Max. What ever prints the best groups really.
 
Re: New Tactical 308

I've hit at 350 yards with a 22 revolver shooting cb shorts, but that doesn't mean it's the right choice for shooting that far. Will a 243 get to a mile, yes. Is a good choice for shooting a mile, probably not.
 
Re: New Tactical 308

At my conditions, altitude and velocity data on my rifles:

260 w/ 140 Berger VLD 2830fps = 23.2 mil drop from my 100 yard zero, 4.1 mil drift in a 10mph 90* cross wind with 308 ft lbs of energy at 1760 yards, time of flight 3.32 seconds.

243 w/ 105 Berger VLD 2950fps= 24.7 mil drop from my 100 yard zero, 4.6 mil drift in a 10mph 90* cross wind with 210 ft lbs of energy at 1760 yards, time of flight 3.46 seconds.

308 w/175 SMK at 2650fps= 35.8 mil drop from my 100 yard zero, 5.8 mil drift in a 10mph 90* cross wind with 284 ft lbs of energy at 1760 yards, time of flight 4.08 seconds.

308 w/ 155 Lapua Scenar at 2850fps = 31.8 mil drop from my 100 yard zero, 5.7 mil drift in a 10mph 90* cross wind with 260 ft lbs of energy at 1760 yards, time of flight 3.89 seconds.

What does this mean? Significantly less drop/drift with both my 243 and 260 and a shorter amount of time for the bullet to be effected while energy on target is more or less a wash. Now how about the best bullet a 308 can launch and yet still be mag friendly while maintaining a reasonable muzzle velocity.

308 w/ 180 JLK long boattail VLD at 2625fps=29.5 mil drop from my 100 yard zero, 4.7 mil drift in a 10mph 90* cross wind with 350 ft lbs of energy at 1760 yards, time of flight 3.71 seconds.

So it does depend on what bullet you shoot as the 180 grain JLK LB-VLD improves the 308’s performance immensely, but I’d still have an advantage with the 260 or 243 if I were to ever shoot one mile compared to my 308’s. But let’s face it, one mile is well beyond the effective range for any of the above as all are well into subsonic territory. You really need a purpose built rifle to shoot that distance for true consistency along with a good spotter, both the man and the optic to make it easier.

Don’t get the wrong idea, I love my 308’s! Every time I shoot them I am reminded of that. They are very easy to load for and live very well inside 800 yards, teaching you just how much you don’t know for the remaining 200 to get to a full 1000. At least at the conditions I shoot in... But if I am serious about hitting the steel targets at 1000 it just isn’t my first choice. After purchasing the factory varmint 243 and loading it with Berger’s and A-Max bullets it just felt like cheating compared to the 308’s and 223’s I had been using up to that point.
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If you want a 308 get a 308.

The varmint, pss and 5r are all good choices and the tactical is a great hunting rifle and great compromise for someone not wanting to shoot 1000 yard targets all the time while being better balanced, lighter in weight and quick in tight cover. The varmint and tactical will require stock replacement to get the most out of them while the pss (think it’s just called the police now) and 5r come with a decent stock from the factory. I know little about Savage and nothing about Weatherby other than you used to be able to send them three grand years ago and a few years later they would send you money back to you and let you keep the rifle, might be dating myself there...
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