What is the most accurate and consistent seater for a 308? 175 SMK's
- Thread starter Highflyer
- Start date
Re: BEST BULLET SEATER?
Redding competition
Redding competition
Re: BEST BULLET SEATER?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Highflyer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What is the most accurate and consistent seater for a 308? 175 SMK's </div></div>
My own testing shows Redding Competition Bullet Seaters are the best with Forster a close second. With a stock Remington 700 action and barrel I don't think anybody will see any difference between these two but you can measure it just not likely on paper. As for the rest not even close.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Highflyer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What is the most accurate and consistent seater for a 308? 175 SMK's </div></div>
My own testing shows Redding Competition Bullet Seaters are the best with Forster a close second. With a stock Remington 700 action and barrel I don't think anybody will see any difference between these two but you can measure it just not likely on paper. As for the rest not even close.
Re: BEST BULLET SEATER?
I use the rcbs gold metal. Works well for me and extremely user friendly.
I use the rcbs gold metal. Works well for me and extremely user friendly.
Re: BEST BULLET SEATER?
Wilson. Lightman
Wilson. Lightman
Re: BEST BULLET SEATER?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YAOG</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Highflyer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What is the most accurate and consistent seater for a 308? 175 SMK's </div></div>
My own testing shows Redding Competition Bullet Seaters are the best with Forster a close second. With a stock Remington 700 action and barrel I don't think anybody will see any difference between these two but you can measure it just not likely on paper. As for the rest not even close.
</div></div>
My results as well.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YAOG</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Highflyer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What is the most accurate and consistent seater for a 308? 175 SMK's </div></div>
My own testing shows Redding Competition Bullet Seaters are the best with Forster a close second. With a stock Remington 700 action and barrel I don't think anybody will see any difference between these two but you can measure it just not likely on paper. As for the rest not even close.
</div></div>
My results as well.
Re: BEST BULLET SEATER?
Hard to beat a Wilson.
Hard to beat a Wilson.
Re: BEST BULLET SEATER?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sledge1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hard to beat a Wilson. </div></div>
Not really. I use a 32oz. ballpeen or a Redding Competition Bullet Seater but a Forster Ultra or Micro seater work just as well and easily beat the Wilson seater.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sledge1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hard to beat a Wilson. </div></div>
Not really. I use a 32oz. ballpeen or a Redding Competition Bullet Seater but a Forster Ultra or Micro seater work just as well and easily beat the Wilson seater.
Re: BEST BULLET SEATER?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mickeyb</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I use the rcbs gold metal. Works well for me and extremely user friendly. </div></div>
How do you use "rcbs gold metal?" Is that some sort of new product I don't know about?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mickeyb</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I use the rcbs gold metal. Works well for me and extremely user friendly. </div></div>
How do you use "rcbs gold metal?" Is that some sort of new product I don't know about?
Re: BEST BULLET SEATER?
Wilson straight line seater is my fav, I've had forester, redding, RCBS, and hornady. All will do the job and my redding comp seater is my fav press die but the wilson really can't be beat. It's always in line and I'm very quick with it. Just don't see how the others are better at all. YOu can do it with a hammer too if need be. Good luck
Wilson straight line seater is my fav, I've had forester, redding, RCBS, and hornady. All will do the job and my redding comp seater is my fav press die but the wilson really can't be beat. It's always in line and I'm very quick with it. Just don't see how the others are better at all. YOu can do it with a hammer too if need be. Good luck
Re: BEST BULLET SEATER?
Wilson is the best, most accurate, least runout, regardless of what fuzzbox thinks. Especially if you are able to have a blank reamed using the same reamer used on your custom barrel. BB
Wilson is the best, most accurate, least runout, regardless of what fuzzbox thinks. Especially if you are able to have a blank reamed using the same reamer used on your custom barrel. BB
Re: BEST BULLET SEATER?
RE: RCBS Gold Medal Seater. I love it. I can't say that it does a better job than any of the others, but it does work better for me.
It has a window above the press where you put the bullet and it is gently held by the die. That means I don't mash my fingers with the press, or have the bullet start crooked. I have one for .223, .270WSM, and 308 - they do a great job. Actually, my .223 is a RCBS Competition - about the same design as the Gold Medal. The .223 needs an extended shell holder - that may be a function of the competition die or the design in general, can't say.
Micrometer adjusting for seating depth. Easy to use. No mashed fingers. Got to love it.
RE: RCBS Gold Medal Seater. I love it. I can't say that it does a better job than any of the others, but it does work better for me.
It has a window above the press where you put the bullet and it is gently held by the die. That means I don't mash my fingers with the press, or have the bullet start crooked. I have one for .223, .270WSM, and 308 - they do a great job. Actually, my .223 is a RCBS Competition - about the same design as the Gold Medal. The .223 needs an extended shell holder - that may be a function of the competition die or the design in general, can't say.
Micrometer adjusting for seating depth. Easy to use. No mashed fingers. Got to love it.
Re: BEST BULLET SEATER?
No question that Wilson's are good and the choice of Bench Resters everywhere.
That said the old Bonanza design that's now incorporated in the Forster Bench Rest Seating Die is considered by Bench Rest Wilson lovers to be the next best thing.
Most BR shooters also prefer the Wilson type dies because they are usually used with an arbor press. Easier to "feel" the seating pressure and notice differences in "neck tension".
For those with standard threaded presses, the Forster BR Seating Die is great, especially if you have a custom seating plug made that fits the specific bullet you are using.
With this die the case is held in the body and both slide up to meet the bullet which is also held in a tight chamber which is aligned with the case/sliding body.
From there on out it's a matter of how straight the case was to begin with.
I won't put down any of the other brands, it's just that if you aren't using a Wilson, the Forster's the next best thing.
No question that Wilson's are good and the choice of Bench Resters everywhere.
That said the old Bonanza design that's now incorporated in the Forster Bench Rest Seating Die is considered by Bench Rest Wilson lovers to be the next best thing.
Most BR shooters also prefer the Wilson type dies because they are usually used with an arbor press. Easier to "feel" the seating pressure and notice differences in "neck tension".
For those with standard threaded presses, the Forster BR Seating Die is great, especially if you have a custom seating plug made that fits the specific bullet you are using.
With this die the case is held in the body and both slide up to meet the bullet which is also held in a tight chamber which is aligned with the case/sliding body.
From there on out it's a matter of how straight the case was to begin with.
I won't put down any of the other brands, it's just that if you aren't using a Wilson, the Forster's the next best thing.
Re: BEST BULLET SEATER?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YAOG</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mickeyb</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I use the rcbs gold metal. Works well for me and extremely user friendly. </div></div>
How do you use "rcbs gold metal?" Is that some sort of new product I don't know about?
</div></div>
your comments are cute....
MEDAL
auto correct....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YAOG</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mickeyb</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I use the rcbs gold metal. Works well for me and extremely user friendly. </div></div>
How do you use "rcbs gold metal?" Is that some sort of new product I don't know about?
</div></div>
your comments are cute....
MEDAL
auto correct....
Re: BEST BULLET SEATER?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KelsonAK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">RE: RCBS Gold Medal Seater. I love it. I can't say that it does a better job than any of the others, but it does work better for me.
It has a window above the press where you put the bullet and it is gently held by the die. That means I don't mash my fingers with the press, or have the bullet start crooked. I have one for .223, .270WSM, and 308 - they do a great job. Actually, my .223 is a RCBS Competition - about the same design as the Gold Medal. The .223 needs an extended shell holder - that may be a function of the competition die or the design in general, can't say.
Micrometer adjusting for seating depth. Easy to use. No mashed fingers. Got to love it.
</div></div>
I have both too. The actual rod in the seater seems a bit larger on the gold.
At any rate, I like the opening for the projectile too. Works like a charm.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KelsonAK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">RE: RCBS Gold Medal Seater. I love it. I can't say that it does a better job than any of the others, but it does work better for me.
It has a window above the press where you put the bullet and it is gently held by the die. That means I don't mash my fingers with the press, or have the bullet start crooked. I have one for .223, .270WSM, and 308 - they do a great job. Actually, my .223 is a RCBS Competition - about the same design as the Gold Medal. The .223 needs an extended shell holder - that may be a function of the competition die or the design in general, can't say.
Micrometer adjusting for seating depth. Easy to use. No mashed fingers. Got to love it.
</div></div>
I have both too. The actual rod in the seater seems a bit larger on the gold.
At any rate, I like the opening for the projectile too. Works like a charm.
Re: BEST BULLET SEATER?
Buzzsaw: <span style="font-style: italic">"Wilson is the best, most accurate, least runout, regardless of what fuzzbox thinks."</span>
Not that it matters but somehow I just don't think you even <span style="font-style: italic">read</span> what fuzzbox said!
Buzzsaw: <span style="font-style: italic">"Wilson is the best, most accurate, least runout, regardless of what fuzzbox thinks."</span>
Not that it matters but somehow I just don't think you even <span style="font-style: italic">read</span> what fuzzbox said!
Re: BEST BULLET SEATER?
I currently use stock Wilson and Forster,in stock .308chambers_ My stock Wilson is overall extremely finnicky about the radial diameter of the inferior portion of the case,without outperforming the Foster about the measured runout from full-prepped brass,nor about my targets,inside 300meters_ Maybe am I,or my 700_
I currently use stock Wilson and Forster,in stock .308chambers_ My stock Wilson is overall extremely finnicky about the radial diameter of the inferior portion of the case,without outperforming the Foster about the measured runout from full-prepped brass,nor about my targets,inside 300meters_ Maybe am I,or my 700_
Re: BEST BULLET SEATER?
i like my rcbs comp seating die.
i like my rcbs comp seating die.
Re: BEST BULLET SEATER?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Buzzsaw: "Wilson is the best, most accurate, least runout, regardless of what fuzzbox thinks."
Not that it matters but somehow I just don't think you even read what fuzzbox said! </div></div>
Depends; if my JERK meter goes off, I may lose interest. Why do you ask?
(not that it matters)
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Buzzsaw: "Wilson is the best, most accurate, least runout, regardless of what fuzzbox thinks."
Not that it matters but somehow I just don't think you even read what fuzzbox said! </div></div>
Depends; if my JERK meter goes off, I may lose interest. Why do you ask?
(not that it matters)
Re: BEST BULLET SEATER?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Highflyer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What is the most accurate and consistent seater for a 308? 175 SMK's </div></div>
I think it's smarter for one to find equipment that works best for them, rather than to be searching for the "best."
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Highflyer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What is the most accurate and consistent seater for a 308? 175 SMK's </div></div>
I think it's smarter for one to find equipment that works best for them, rather than to be searching for the "best."
Re: BEST BULLET SEATER?
I use a Redding Competition die set, its the first I got, never found a need for anything better with runout down in the 0.002 range.
I use a Redding Competition die set, its the first I got, never found a need for anything better with runout down in the 0.002 range.
Re: BEST BULLET SEATER?
can someone explain the meaning of runout to me. i very new to reloading.
can someone explain the meaning of runout to me. i very new to reloading.
Re: BEST BULLET SEATER?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ProImaging</div><div class="ubbcode-body">can someone explain the meaning of runout to me. i very new to reloading. </div></div>
check out this vid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=4oN0J0hFpU8&NR=1
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ProImaging</div><div class="ubbcode-body">can someone explain the meaning of runout to me. i very new to reloading. </div></div>
check out this vid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=4oN0J0hFpU8&NR=1
Re: BEST BULLET SEATER?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ProImaging</div><div class="ubbcode-body">can someone explain the meaning of runout to me. i very new to reloading. </div></div>
You wont see it much if you top off with a fresh mag.
Think of looking down a pool cue . You want the straightest one ,it has the least "runout"
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ProImaging</div><div class="ubbcode-body">can someone explain the meaning of runout to me. i very new to reloading. </div></div>
You wont see it much if you top off with a fresh mag.
Think of looking down a pool cue . You want the straightest one ,it has the least "runout"
Re: BEST BULLET SEATER?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ProImaging</div><div class="ubbcode-body">can someone explain the meaning of runout to me. i very new to reloading. </div></div>
Good video with Sinclair concentricity gauge. Sinclair Concentricity Gauge link.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ProImaging</div><div class="ubbcode-body">can someone explain the meaning of runout to me. i very new to reloading. </div></div>
Good video with Sinclair concentricity gauge. Sinclair Concentricity Gauge link.
Re: BEST BULLET SEATER?
This is a very acurate Seater
http://www.6mmbr.com/catalog/item/1433308/892435.htm
This is a very acurate Seater
http://www.6mmbr.com/catalog/item/1433308/892435.htm
Re: BEST BULLET SEATER?
Cannot go wrong with a Forster Micro Seating Die or Redding Micro Seating die. Both are outstanding.
Cannot go wrong with a Forster Micro Seating Die or Redding Micro Seating die. Both are outstanding.
Re: BEST BULLET SEATER?
thanks, just trying to learn as much as possible
thanks, just trying to learn as much as possible
Re: BEST BULLET SEATER?
Well, in plain english; runout is when the bullet is not in perfect alignment in the case neck. When spun, it wobbles very slightly, oscillates a few thousandths that can be seen on a dial indicator. The theory is that if the bullet enters the bore slightly off center, accuracy is affected. BB
Well, in plain english; runout is when the bullet is not in perfect alignment in the case neck. When spun, it wobbles very slightly, oscillates a few thousandths that can be seen on a dial indicator. The theory is that if the bullet enters the bore slightly off center, accuracy is affected. BB
Re: BEST BULLET SEATER?
Runout can be measured in more than one way. I would want to get my runout numbers as low as possible as measured on the axis of the rifle bore. Ideally the bore axis would be found using an empty full length sized case. Using this axis would show me where the bullet should be lined up.
oops, BuzzBoss this is not directed at your comment!
Runout can be measured in more than one way. I would want to get my runout numbers as low as possible as measured on the axis of the rifle bore. Ideally the bore axis would be found using an empty full length sized case. Using this axis would show me where the bullet should be lined up.
oops, BuzzBoss this is not directed at your comment!
Re: BEST BULLET SEATER?
No seater can put bullets straight into cases with bad necks and that's the main cause of runout, not the seater.
Everyone wanting the 'best' dies should know that just because any two dies are "identical" doesn't mean they are identical. Everything manufactored has a tolerance and, with dies, that's a range specificed by SAAMI. Anything inside that range is as 'precise' as it's required to be so dies usually vary as much within a brand as between brands.
What makes Forster/Redding threaded seaters 'better' than others, on average, isn't the tolerances, it's the design. They both have a spring loaded full length body and bullet sleeve that align things quite well before seating begins. (NO other threaded dies do that.) Only they basically duplicate what Wilson type straight-line seaters do and few rifles - or shooters - could ever see any difference between the three brands on target. The occasional really good seater of common design will, if used correctly, seat as straight as the more costly ones but that's just luck and it's rare.
Staight ammo IS helpful. No one can tell much about his runout without a concentricity gauge with a precision dial indicator. There's a difference between 'runout' and the 'total indicated runout' we see on a concentricity gauge; the gauge will measure runout 180 degrees apart as we rotate the cartridge so the dial actually indicates twice what the real runout is, which isn't all that big a deal.
What we are seeking is "0" runout on the gauge but that's rarely going to happen so each of us has to determine what level of runout we're willing to accept. Doing that intelligently requires some shooting experiments to see what different amounts of runout actually does to us. The effects are influenced and limited a good deal by how snug our chamber's leade is.
Costly micrometer seater heads are nice user aids but they don't do a thing for the ammo.
No seater can put bullets straight into cases with bad necks and that's the main cause of runout, not the seater.
Everyone wanting the 'best' dies should know that just because any two dies are "identical" doesn't mean they are identical. Everything manufactored has a tolerance and, with dies, that's a range specificed by SAAMI. Anything inside that range is as 'precise' as it's required to be so dies usually vary as much within a brand as between brands.
What makes Forster/Redding threaded seaters 'better' than others, on average, isn't the tolerances, it's the design. They both have a spring loaded full length body and bullet sleeve that align things quite well before seating begins. (NO other threaded dies do that.) Only they basically duplicate what Wilson type straight-line seaters do and few rifles - or shooters - could ever see any difference between the three brands on target. The occasional really good seater of common design will, if used correctly, seat as straight as the more costly ones but that's just luck and it's rare.
Staight ammo IS helpful. No one can tell much about his runout without a concentricity gauge with a precision dial indicator. There's a difference between 'runout' and the 'total indicated runout' we see on a concentricity gauge; the gauge will measure runout 180 degrees apart as we rotate the cartridge so the dial actually indicates twice what the real runout is, which isn't all that big a deal.
What we are seeking is "0" runout on the gauge but that's rarely going to happen so each of us has to determine what level of runout we're willing to accept. Doing that intelligently requires some shooting experiments to see what different amounts of runout actually does to us. The effects are influenced and limited a good deal by how snug our chamber's leade is.
Costly micrometer seater heads are nice user aids but they don't do a thing for the ammo.
Re: BEST BULLET SEATER?
I always feel humble after reading fuzzbox or Krauthammer.
Has anybody done anything attempting to straighten runout on assembled cartridges? Just wondering, like arrow shaft straightening, only different? Probably a waste of time? BB
I always feel humble after reading fuzzbox or Krauthammer.
Has anybody done anything attempting to straighten runout on assembled cartridges? Just wondering, like arrow shaft straightening, only different? Probably a waste of time? BB
Re: BEST BULLET SEATER?
The Hornady concentricity gauge will correct runout by adding presure to the bullet while in the gauge if needed.
Seems to work!
BnC
The Hornady concentricity gauge will correct runout by adding presure to the bullet while in the gauge if needed.
Seems to work!
BnC
Re: BEST BULLET SEATER?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bangnclang</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Hornady concentricity gauge will correct runout by adding presure to the bullet while in the gauge if needed.
Seems to work!
BnC </div></div>
It is better to assemble straight rounds to start with than to straighten out every finished round. Finding and correcting the core cause of your runout is the best way to build precision ammunition.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bangnclang</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Hornady concentricity gauge will correct runout by adding presure to the bullet while in the gauge if needed.
Seems to work!
BnC </div></div>
It is better to assemble straight rounds to start with than to straighten out every finished round. Finding and correcting the core cause of your runout is the best way to build precision ammunition.
Re: BEST BULLET SEATER?
Yeah, okay. So, if you have a 29 dollar set of dies producing significant runout, just buy a hundred dollar concentricity gauge from Hornady. One more step. <sigh>
This stuff is always peeling back layers and in truth, it's only when there is an awareness, one step at a time because much is not necessary. Be realistic. You have to figure out if your gear will benefit from precision techniques and very expensive tools, or if it won't make any difference, on paper. Practical. Depends what you are trying to do.
When I first started, I spent considerable time at the range testing all sorts of different bullets and powder and seating depths and (of course) the primers. It didn't occur to me that my Model 77 Ruger was only capable of so much, and after that, I was just wasting money, when consistant half inch accuracy wasn't in the cards.
On the other hand, many feel that the confidence is worth the effort; it's all in your head. BB
Yeah, okay. So, if you have a 29 dollar set of dies producing significant runout, just buy a hundred dollar concentricity gauge from Hornady. One more step. <sigh>
This stuff is always peeling back layers and in truth, it's only when there is an awareness, one step at a time because much is not necessary. Be realistic. You have to figure out if your gear will benefit from precision techniques and very expensive tools, or if it won't make any difference, on paper. Practical. Depends what you are trying to do.
When I first started, I spent considerable time at the range testing all sorts of different bullets and powder and seating depths and (of course) the primers. It didn't occur to me that my Model 77 Ruger was only capable of so much, and after that, I was just wasting money, when consistant half inch accuracy wasn't in the cards.
On the other hand, many feel that the confidence is worth the effort; it's all in your head. BB
Similar threads
Reloading Equipment Forster Bench Rest Ultra Micrometer Seater Die 308 Win
