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STRAIGHT UP -308 ,or AR10 really worth the money ?

WK&U

WK&U

Private
Minuteman
Feb 18, 2005
0
0
Trying to decide if building an 308 AR style rifle is really a worth while efort on the idea of a accurate rifle. The AR15 works fine the way it was designed for a 223 round,but the 308 round should be able to reach out alot father than the 223 round. I know I'll get barrier pentration, but the AR style platform just does not feel as solid as a bolt gun. So to you guys who own one is the money and effort worth it. I'd like to here some straight up advice last thing I want is a rifle I hate using PS I was planning to build my own rifle trying to use the best parts not buying a cheep off the self rifle I know its risky but money comes in slow
 
Re: STRAIGHT UP -308 ,or AR10 really worth the money ?

I'm not trying to be a dick but you've been here since 2005 and you're asking if an AR-10 is worthwhile as an accurate rifle?
confused.gif


Only YOU can determine if it's "worth the money" or not.

A top tier AR-10 can be nearly as accurate as a bolt gun, while laying down more firepower than a bolt. Furthermore, what are you planning on doing that you need "barrier penetration"?
 
Re: STRAIGHT UP -308 ,or AR10 really worth the money ?

Same caliber and vastly different platforms.
It's America so you can have both.....

IMHO a properly set up bolt gun will run rings around auto loaders for less cost generally speaking. If you want sub MOA go with a bolt gun if you want MOA an auto loader can get you there but the sub MOA in an auto loader the cost goes up rapidly.

Most shooters cant hold sub MOA groups and your need or intent dictates the platform, your wallet seals the deal.

I like them both but the bolt gun is easier on the brass and more flexible for loads and bullet configuration.

One is MOA or better (Armalite AR10 NM).
The other is sub MOA / FN- SPR.

ar10.jpg



DSC_0007_.jpg
 
Re: STRAIGHT UP -308 ,or AR10 really worth the money ?

it would be hard to choose from those two,very nice rigs!
 
Re: STRAIGHT UP -308 ,or AR10 really worth the money ?

just do them both ..less thinking that way
 
Re: STRAIGHT UP -308 ,or AR10 really worth the money ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KillShot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Only YOU can determine if it's "worth the money" or not.

A top tier AR-10 can be nearly as accurate as a bolt gun, while laying down more firepower than a bolt. Furthermore, what are you planning on doing that you need "barrier penetration"? </div></div>Great answer, really!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cal50</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Same caliber and vastly different platforms.
It's America so you can have both.....

...the bolt gun is easier on the brass...</div></div>
Agreed again...


Can an AR10/LR308 hold better than MOA? Without huge expense? I think the threads on 100 and 300 yard groups are showing that even some of the off the shelf, less expensive AR's can do it.

I started doing some long range competition last year. In some ways, I had it in my head that my AR was "less competitive", but that is kind of a give away to the rifle rather than working on individual skills that can be lacking, or not recognizing that an auto and a bolt gun are different and need to be approached a little differently.
 
Re: STRAIGHT UP -308 ,or AR10 really worth the money ?

I sold my GAP 6.5x47 to fund a 6.5x47 built on a Mega MA-10 and I really really hope it was worth it. My GAP was as they say "gnats ass accurate"

Semi's and bolts are different tools for different jobs, I wanted to try out a semi for competition so if this project doesn't work out I will slap a .308 barrel on it and go back to a bolt for my 6.5x47 lust.
 
Re: STRAIGHT UP -308 ,or AR10 really worth the money ?

I have my .338f Ar10 and its as accurate as i can shoot, and will likely do better with a better shooter. I use it for hunting and love not coming off scope, to chamber another round; or like with my .300 winmag being knocked out of the scope. Follow up shots are more than three times faster, by maintaining cheek weld and staying in the scope.

More subjectively, its a platform Im much more familiar with, and thusly more comfortable with. Also being a gas gun, the recoil is significantly less, meaning range days where im just putting accurate rounds out are far more comfortable.
 
Re: STRAIGHT UP -308 ,or AR10 really worth the money ?

You only live once. How can you not want to own a quality semi 308 in your life...
 
Re: STRAIGHT UP -308 ,or AR10 really worth the money ?

If cost is a primary factor I would stay with the bolt gun. I have both and the semi's require much more practice to get consistent sub moa accuracy out of. Ammo also goes quicker with the semi. A Bolt gun is just more forgiving and easy to get sub moa with.

That being said I invested big in my JP and couldn't be happier with my semi 308.
 
Re: STRAIGHT UP -308 ,or AR10 really worth the money ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jim Buck</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I prefer an AR in 223 and Bolt in .308. </div></div>

Same here. I own a dozen AR 15 platforms from a Colt 6920, 6724 Elite, POF 415, LMT CQB, Noveske N4 Afghan and a few others. All a pretty good shooters and most are more accurate than any of my 3 308's. In 308 I own an LMT MWS, Armalite AR 10A4 and a DPMS SASS. The best of my AR 15's shoots on good days 0.5" 100 yard 5 shoot groups. My most accurate 308, the DPMS SASS on a good day will shoot 0.7" 100 yard 5 shoot groups. By comparison my Remy PSS in 223 will shoot consistently less than 0.5" groups and my 308 TRG 22 will consistently less than than 0.4" 100 yard groups. While I am content with all of the accuracy of the 223's and 308's if I was on a limited budget I would choose to stay with both of my bolt actions if accuracy was my prime concern. Every one has to decide for themselves if the difference in accuracy is worth the additional cost of the more costly top of the line 308's, OBR's, Gap's or Knight's etc, which have close to the same accuracy as the AIAW's or the TRG's.
 
Re: STRAIGHT UP -308 ,or AR10 really worth the money ?

Sir check out the thread on the semi at 100 yrds. Lot of different rifles represented there and the spread is so close that moon alignment could have made the difference. Those are 30 round targets, do you know how hard 30 rds without a flier is?
You have to honestly ask yourself,"Can I shoot well enough that those gas guns are holding me back"? Then decide for yourself.
 
Re: STRAIGHT UP -308 ,or AR10 really worth the money ?

apples to oranges, that hard hitting long range power can only be obtained by not losing gases to cycle a bcg, bolt gun all the way. volume its the ar10
 
Re: STRAIGHT UP -308 ,or AR10 really worth the money ?

you are HIGH if you think modern Gas guns can't run with the bolts. I would put my 6cm gap 10 against just about any bolt gun.

unless you load long, honestly these days you can get a gas gun that will do all but .1 percent of what a bolt gun can and you'll gain faster follow up shots, more mag capacity and the guns are usually cheaper.

only down side is they are harder to drive well and will show your bad habits much more then a bolt gun can. And people have a habit of chasing rounds due to how easy it is to send the next round. its not the guns inability to hit its your inability to shoot well.
 
Re: STRAIGHT UP -308 ,or AR10 really worth the money ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would put my 6cm gap 10 against just about any bolt gun.
</div></div>

For a second there, I was wondering 'When did GAP start making anti-tank guns. . . '

As for the rest of what Joe said, +1. The only place bolt guns hae an advantage over gassers is when it comes to longer/magnum rounds (.300 Win Mag, .338 Lapua, etc.) mostly because noone's really developed a reliable, accurate, and successful gasser in those calibers.
 
Re: STRAIGHT UP -308 ,or AR10 really worth the money ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: njnicky</div><div class="ubbcode-body">that hard hitting long range power can only be obtained by not losing gases to cycle a bcg </div></div>

Actually that's a myth given equal quality barrels velocity will be a tossup between bolt and semi. As far as volume at distance you'll find a bolt and semi are pretty close since most of the time is spent finding/aiming at your targets. How fast you are able to physically yank the trigger doesn't have as much to do with it.
 
Re: STRAIGHT UP -308 ,or AR10 really worth the money ?

Recently ran 20 5 shot groups through my 6 Creed while running the 6 groups challenge and only 4 went over 1 MOA. not sure I am giving up a lot.
 
Re: STRAIGHT UP -308 ,or AR10 really worth the money ?

sold all my bolt guns.... +1 to BigJoe's comment. I don't feel like I'm loosing anything from my decision.

Gas guns are here to stay.
 
Re: STRAIGHT UP -308 ,or AR10 really worth the money ?

only thing i've noticed is a bolt gun can have a lot lighter trigger than a gas gun
 
Re: STRAIGHT UP -308 ,or AR10 really worth the money ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: longrange223</div><div class="ubbcode-body">only thing i've noticed is a bolt gun can have a lot lighter trigger than a gas gun </div></div>

Get a different trigger, my Geissele is sub 3lbs of pure smooth, with a sharp break.

link

This is another area the 10's excel over bolts. Massive parts inventory. Don't like your trigger theirs about 100 more you could try. Stocks, foregrips, pistol grips, muzzle devices all the way down to extractor springs can be replaced and tuned to the users liking.
 
Re: STRAIGHT UP -308 ,or AR10 really worth the money ?

Thanks Guys, judging from the replys posted I'd say you feel (its worth the money spent!) One more straight up question; Which is the best the Armalight, or DPMS style Parts for accuracy,funtion and durablity.
 
Re: STRAIGHT UP -308 ,or AR10 really worth the money ?

they both work but most major makers now use DPMS pattern parts and mags. building you own is easy and can lend to good results just don't go cheap on parts.

I have built a TON of ar's but my comp gun is a GAP 10 if that tells you anything. i also have a MWS coming as well. just easier to rely on a warranty sometimes.
 
Re: STRAIGHT UP -308 ,or AR10 really worth the money ?

I had the same concern when I bought my dpms sass, but I have never regretted it. It is an awesome shooting gun, capable of atleast 3/4 moa all day every day. I fortunately do not have any "driving" problems that I am aware of in respect to what i have read here about people firing semi-autos...... I guess I have better form that I thought?

Anyways buy a DPMS SASS, it has all of or "most" of the upgrades already in the package and have yet to hear anyone complain of theirs!
 
Re: STRAIGHT UP -308 ,or AR10 really worth the money ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WK&U</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks Guys, judging from the replys posted I'd say you feel (its worth the money spent!) One more straight up question; Which is the best the Armalight, or DPMS style Parts for accuracy,funtion and durablity. </div></div>

For just off the shelf parts I think it would be hard to beat a rainier ultra match barrel, mega ma-ten receiver set, PRI or DDefense handguards and a geisselle or timney trigger and whatever stock you want.
 
Re: STRAIGHT UP -308 ,or AR10 really worth the money ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">you are HIGH if you think modern Gas guns can't run with the bolts. I would put my 6cm gap 10 against just about any bolt gun.

unless you load long, honestly these days you can get a gas gun that will do all but .1 percent of what a bolt gun can and you'll gain faster follow up shots, more mag capacity and the guns are usually cheaper.

only down side is they are harder to drive well and will show your bad habits much more then a bolt gun can. And people have a habit of chasing rounds due to how easy it is to send the next round. its not the guns inability to hit its your inability to shoot well. </div></div>

This pretty much sums it up. A bad guy won't know if it's a 0.41" bolt rifle that sends the bullet, or a 0.72" semi-auto.
A dedicated target rifle, sure a bolt is a better choice. But, like Big Joe said, 99.9% can be done better with a GAP/OBR/LMT/KAC that have another 15+ rounds ready to go.
 
Re: STRAIGHT UP -308 ,or AR10 really worth the money ?

.308's are useless, get a sword man!

The .308 Cartmann Family.
IMG_1406-vi.jpg
 
Re: STRAIGHT UP -308 ,or AR10 really worth the money ?

Has anyone been able to see sub-moa or even 1 moa from any FAL platform guns?
 
Re: STRAIGHT UP -308 ,or AR10 really worth the money ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nukes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Has anyone been able to see sub-moa or even 1 moa from any FAL platform guns? </div></div>

I can consistently do 3 MOA (5 shot) with FGMM Match ammo through both of my FALs.
 
Re: STRAIGHT UP -308 ,or AR10 really worth the money ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EricCartmann</div><div class="ubbcode-body">.308's are useless, get a sword man!

The .308 Cartmann Family.
IMG_1406-vi.jpg
</div></div>

Show off! Sorry just jealous.

If ya had to go to war with just one of those which would it be?

Sorry for the brief hijack OP.
 
Re: STRAIGHT UP -308 ,or AR10 really worth the money ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 78steeler</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Show off! Sorry just jealous.

If ya had to go to war with just one of those which would it be?

Sorry for the brief hijack OP. </div></div>


If I had just one choice it would be my 16" AR10 light profile barrel with a 3.5x ACOG... With a spare BCG and field repair kit.. Not that I never needed spares on my AR10s.. But you never know.
 
Re: STRAIGHT UP -308 ,or AR10 really worth the money ?

Speaking personally, not for or about anyone else or the law, I just have no need for the AR 10. I had a GAP and an SR 25. They are big, heavy and accurate. Sold them both. Suppressed, they get dirty fast and are not fun to clean.
I like the AR 15 in .204 and .223. and use them all the time. If you are not in the mil why would you want to carry all that weight around? If you just go to the range, take whatever you want. I think that is what most people do with them. I have no idea why anyone would want to hunt with one. Fine if they do, but who needs to shoot large heards of elk?
 
Re: STRAIGHT UP -308 ,or AR10 really worth the money ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rth1800</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Suppressed, they get dirty fast and are not fun to clean. </div></div>

I can't speak for all gas piston rifles but the POF easily wipes clean. But, yeah, they get filthy.
 
Re: STRAIGHT UP -308 ,or AR10 really worth the money ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: njnicky</div><div class="ubbcode-body">apples to oranges, that hard hitting long range power can only be obtained by not losing gases to cycle a bcg, bolt gun all the way. volume its the ar10 </div></div>

Bullet's long gone before the carrier ever starts to move.

okie
 
Re: STRAIGHT UP -308 ,or AR10 really worth the money ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rth1800</div><div class="ubbcode-body">They are big, heavy and accurate... I have no idea why anyone would want to hunt with one. Fine if they do, but who needs to shoot large heards of elk?</div></div>

My Ar10 weighs less than one of my hunting partners Rem 700. Also not necessarily Elk, sometimes theirs lots of pigs in one group. Coyotes are another sometimes found in close proximity, and dont always spook on the first shot. It has its purposes, but like you said "speaking personally".
 
Re: STRAIGHT UP -308 ,or AR10 really worth the money ?

Realistically, I have close to zero "need" for most of the guns I own. I do, however really like my JP LRP-07. Heavy? Yes, but very accurate and minimal recoil. I have no plans to hunt with it, but enjoy shooting it very much.
 
Re: STRAIGHT UP -308 ,or AR10 really worth the money ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WK&U</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The AR15 works fine the way it was designed for a 223 round,but the 308 round should be able to reach out alot father than the 223 round. I know I'll get barrier pentration, but the AR style platform just does not feel as solid as a bolt gun... </div></div>

So, what purpose will this rifle be put to? Why do you need barrier penetration and increased firepower? Do you need this tool for your professional job, e.g. are you in law enforcement? Or are you just preparing for the zompocolpse and want to look bad ass whilst doing it (not that there is anything wrong with that BTW)?

I'm not trying to be a smart ass, really just curious if it's a legitimate need.

If you're just ringing steel and like to shoot a long way, a fast twist barrel can send an 80 gr. .223 round out to 1000 yds accurately and for cheaper than .308.

In terms of ruggedness, the AR platform has stood up well against all that the US Armed Forces have thrown at it...I doubt you'll be able to break it any faster than a bolt gun. If it's just the ergonomics you don't like, then I'd say go with a bolt gun and save a lot of money.

Most shoot better with bolt guns anyway.
 
Re: STRAIGHT UP -308 ,or AR10 really worth the money ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rth1800</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Speaking personally, not for or about anyone else or the law, I just have no need for the AR 10. I had a GAP and an SR 25. They are big, heavy and accurate. Sold them both. Suppressed, they get dirty fast and are not fun to clean.
I like the AR 15 in .204 and .223. and use them all the time. If you are not in the mil why would you want to carry all that weight around? If you just go to the range, take whatever you want. I think that is what most people do with them. I have no idea why anyone would want to hunt with one. Fine if they do, but who needs to shoot large heards of elk? </div></div>

My 16" AR10 with Light Barrel and ACOG weighs almost the same as my AR15 with ACOG. The light barrel makes the rifle handle like an SBR. As for cleaning, I just wipe the gun down and liberally clean the gun with Mobil-1. I have not really "cleaned" the action in over a year now.

I don't shoot this gun suppressed much, makes the gun too front heavy.
IMG_1355-vi.jpg
 
Re: STRAIGHT UP -308 ,or AR10 really worth the money ?

You don't have to spend a fortune to get a MOA or sub MOA gas gun. Here's my DPMS LR 308 Oracle after a few mods, all cosmetic, except for a 4lb Timney trigger, The lower, receiver, bcg, and barrel are all stock. Is it worth it? I'd say yes and I'm having a blast with my LR 308.

LR308aftermods-1.jpg


Here's a couple of targets with factory ammo at 100 yards. I'm not the greatest shot anymore, 64 years old with arthritis. But the rifle does much better than I am capable of. These were 4 shot groups and you can see where I pulled some shots. The 4 shots in the bullseye on the Tap FPD target measure .655" center to center with my calipers. The two 3 shot groups on the target with AMAX bullets measure .655" and .757" center to center with my calipers. The red bullseye is 1.5" in diameter. The rifle is capable of sub MOA with factory ammo. If I can do this well, how well do you think a good shooter could do?

TAP168gr100yrd-1.jpg
100yrdAMAX168gr.jpg
 
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