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Rifle of the future

M

MagnumSecurity

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Full Member
Minuteman
Aug 21, 2012
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Michigan/Florida
I know a guy from another forum who is friends with a person at Tracking Point. They make an awesome rifle that anyone can shoot out to a 1000 yards with repeatable hits. The ammo is custom made by Barnes. I talked with Barnes to verify that they make the ammo. This is cool. Check it out. Here is a link.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvbyAcYjzlc&feature=youtu.be

BTW I have no interest in this company and am not trying to sell this system, so hopefully I am not violating forum rules. It is not even commercially available at this time. However, if you have an interest in it you can contact:

Allen McKee
[email protected]
 
Re: Rifle of the future

Interesting for sure, but kinda takes the fun out of it. Also why do I feel like I know the guy in the video?
 
Re: Rifle of the future

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jbell</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Interesting for sure, but kinda takes the fun out of it. Also why do I feel like I know the guy in the video? </div></div>

I don't know anyone with the company, so can't answer why you you feel like you know him. I just heard about this rifle a week ago, so I can't answer any questions. I just think it is awesome.
 
Re: Rifle of the future

Smart Scope

How about this one....."The Meslas, made by Pulse Inteco Systems Ltd., features a laser rangefinder that’s effective out to 2,000 meters and a ballistic computer that provides the sniper with a red dot showing where the bullet will strike the target. The Meslas features a data port so the shooter can upload ballistic tables, wind tables and other sniper tools for the mission, PI Systems officials maintain. In other words, Meslas doesn’t do it all; you need sniper skills to make it effective."
 
Re: Rifle of the future

Now isn't that special...

So now any dumb dumb can make hits. No need to know ballistic tables for your rig, how to properly pull a trigger, how to range a target. Alls they got to do is snuggle up behind her press a button and pull the trigger

Look what I can do ma!
 
Re: Rifle of the future

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RedGoat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Now isn't that special...

So now any dumb dumb can make hits. No need to know ballistic tables for your rig, how to properly pull a trigger, how to range a target. Alls they got to do is snuggle up behind her press a button and pull the trigger

Look what I can do ma! </div></div>

I think new technology and innovation is a good thing. Especially if it's made in the USA. Also, it is my understanding that they may be selling the technology to the Military.
 
Re: Rifle of the future

You don't have to have any experience or fire 1000's of rounds to make first round hits........

I have been wasting my time all these years perfecting trigger control and follow through.
 
Re: Rifle of the future

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RedGoat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Now isn't that special...

So now any dumb dumb can make hits. No need to know ballistic tables for your rig, how to properly pull a trigger, how to range a target. Alls they got to do is snuggle up behind her press a button and pull the trigger

Look what I can do ma! </div></div>

My take away from the video was the trigger pull didn't actually fire the rifle, only told the "system" you were ready to take a shot. The "system" would automatically fire the rifle, after the trigger was pulled, ONLY once the rifle is properly aligned. Maybe I misunderstood?

Anyway, things like this remind me of semi-truck drivers pissing and moaning about automatic transmissions for big rigs... No matter how good the automatic trans is, the drivers will always bitch because they have spent a lot of time mastering a skill that is difficult to do very well.

It sucks to feel "obsoleted".
 
Re: Rifle of the future

One of my teachers said...

"Novices worry about drop. Professionals worry about wind."
 
Re: Rifle of the future

Interesting for the military, but would take the art out of the sport. There are still great matches using obsolete weapons-i.e. black powder and old military hardware. Why would you think all the fancy custom rifles and new scopes we have now have would not be obsolete some day ? Technology has been exponential in recent years.

Good shooting whatever you use. Sling shot? Bow ?
 
Re: Rifle of the future

this is nice and all but the shooter still has to read the wind, no smart scope has been inveted yet that can do that.
 
Re: Rifle of the future

Obviously the rifle is not magic and does not have smart bullets, so someone still has to read and input the wind.

I don't like the fact that today's black powder rifles can have their own hunting season when they are not much different than a center fire rifle. However I am all for the new technology. The same for bows and compound bows and crossbows. Who wants to go back to the old musket type of weapons? How about the bullets we have today that we didn't have years ago? Innovation is going to happen. At least I hope it does.
 
Re: Rifle of the future

Wow. I think someone took I, sniper alittle to seriously. All kidding aside I dont think this right. I mean come on. They are taking the sniper out of sniping. The shooter doesnt even fire the gun the scope does. One big problem I have is, can the rifle still work if the batteries die or the scope breaks, they never say. I dont know, maybe I am wrong and this will be the best thing to happen to guns since smokeless powder, we will see.
 
Re: Rifle of the future

well that sure is cool, but not as cool as being able to make hits on target after working the tables yourself
 
Re: Rifle of the future

I had the opportunity to look at the optics system and rifle first hand last week in Austin, TX where the company is located. I also talked for some time with one of their Sales Reps and he assured me that they were not trying to take sniping out of the hands of snipers. They are working on an optics and rifle system that uses advanced integrated technologies to aid the shooter and increase 1st round hit capabilities as well as providing enhanced image resolution and real-time data for intel and analysis. There were some features on the optics system that I didn't like, and the Rep I spoke with was very interested in hearing what I had to say and was receptive to input. Typically that's a good sign, and if Tracking Point can stay focused on providing a rugged, reliable, and repeatable system they may be the next big thing to hit the sniping community. I will also say that I was quite impressed with the rifle platform by itself, so obviously these guys recognize quality and are striving to deliver it. If they get the kinks ironed out of their optical system I think we will all be seeing some interesting changes soon.
 
Re: Rifle of the future

I believe they also make it in a tactical 300 wm and a hunting version in 300 wm.

Now if they would just make some smart bullets ...
 
Re: Rifle of the future

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gme</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What happens when the battery dies?
</div></div>

User wears a solar panel on his back to keep batteries recharged.
smile.gif
RG
 
Re: Rifle of the future

I shoot at 1k at least once a week and I can always range my target get a ballistics solution then spend the bulk of my time reading the wind. Range and drop is easy and attainable with today's technology that has been proven, calculating the windage effects is where the trouble lies.

LM's OneShot and similar technology being created does make pretty good wind calls, I know I worked on LM's program. Just ranging and developing a drop is easy and was only a very small part of that program.

Just my 2 cents,
 
Re: Rifle of the future

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: VJJPunisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sniper no sniping sniper no sniping </div></div>

doraswiperfoxohman_zps33edeaa0.png
 
Re: Rifle of the future

Unless they fix the range problem(only being able to fire the .338 lapua magnum to 1200 yards) on that system it will never sell.
 
Re: Rifle of the future

automatic for the people
or
fast food
nobody complains anymore it took over the planet
 
Re: Rifle of the future

I don't understand all the negative comments here. Yes, one should be able to range using subtended reticles, know drops, etc. as backup. But when new technology presents itself, it is generally appreciated. Rangefinders, Kestrels, Ballistic Calculators... nobody complains about those. It was only a matter of time until somebody put all the pieces together.

Think outside the box. How about a gun that is not even held by the shooter... that uses an electronic trigger and a remote display and that rides on a robotic bipod or some-such. Follow-up shots and multiple targets would probably suck, but first round hits could be hit with a higher %.

It is not hard to imagine a computer algorithm that could read mirage. A quick scan might indicate precise windage as a computer looks at mirage across all parallax adjustments.

I'm not saying somebody doesn't need those core skills for when things go bad, but why not use available technology for an edge?
 
Re: Rifle of the future

Exactly! Who is shooting/hunting open sights? Almost nobody, almost, we got optics.
 
Re: Rifle of the future

Personally seems as though it takes the point of precision shooting. IMO it's the sense of accomplishment a person gets when it's them that is the cause of putting a first round hit on target at a distance. Rather than some system doing everything for you.
 
Re: Rifle of the future

The game just changed. "Taking the fun/satistfaction out of it", well a lot more people are going to be joining the ranks of Cowboy Action Shooters and transistor radio enthusiasts looking for fun, you can get out your dope books and recall the good ole days.
 
Re: Rifle of the future

I am brand new here and this system is very interesting to me. I have hunted all my life and have had an illness that causes me to buy new toys. I am going to look into it and I would like to own one. I completly understand and respect that long range shooting is an art and very few will master it without military training. That will not deter me from wanting to do it. Technology has revolutionized long range shooting and there will always be doubters. Henry Ford told a story of when the automobile first came on the scene and a rancher told him it would never work because it couldnt jump a fence. If you are a conventional shooter that understands the art of shooting long distance, I envy you. I will get there but I will do it the easy way first.
smile.gif
Desert Tactical has a very nice set up. I want one of those also....
 
Re: Rifle of the future

making first round impacts on targets at 1000k or longer is only a very small percentage of what needs to be mastered to be a scout sniper. i dont see how this changes anything , am i for it no becuase i am under the belief that by using this device you are short changing yourself from learning and understanding proper marksmanship but that aside this device does not compensate for the other 90% of the skills you will need to master to become a scout sniper or millitary sniper so as far as im concerned it changes nothing in the field.
 
Re: Rifle of the future

It is a cool concept and I am sure that it looks good on paper. My question is. When the scope comes into alignment with the painted target and the rifle fires, will the lock time and bore time be fast enough to get the bullet out before you have over swept the target?

Without having smart ammunition that actually guides into the target I don't see how it could work.
 
Re: Rifle of the future

I like the concept too,but it's just another expensive gadget to bolt onto your rifle.The shooter still needs to do their part and that means it's not 100% foolproof.
 
Re: Rifle of the future

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Carter Mayfield</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't understand all the negative comments here. Yes, one should be able to range using subtended reticles, know drops, etc. as backup. But when new technology presents itself, it is generally appreciated. Rangefinders, Kestrels, Ballistic Calculators... nobody complains about those. It was only a matter of time until somebody put all the pieces together.

Think outside the box. How about a gun that is not even held by the shooter... that uses an electronic trigger and a remote display and that rides on a robotic bipod or some-such. Follow-up shots and multiple targets would probably suck, but first round hits could be hit with a higher %.

It is not hard to imagine a computer algorithm that could read mirage. A quick scan might indicate precise windage as a computer looks at mirage across all parallax adjustments.

I'm not saying somebody doesn't need those core skills for when things go bad, but why not use available technology for an edge?</div></div>

This.

The Airborne Laser for intercepting theater ballistic missiles relies on using a preliminary aiming laser that is used to calibrate any refraction error in the atmosphere and correct for it using an algorithm to correct the aim before firing the kill shot with the main beam. I have no doubt that in a similar way we could account for aiming error due to mirage. The holy grail though would be a system that actually measures the total wind component somehow an instant before the shot and automatically applies the instantaneous wind correction.

There was similar talk and complaints about this kind of stuff when fighters went from visual offset aiming techniques for CAS bomb deliveries to the new computed deliveries. Not a single pilot I know would prefer to go back to the non-computed deliveries during combat. We have systems now where for some deliveries you hold the pickle button (the bomb trigger) down, and the bomb comes off when the solution is right. I'm sure we would have something like that for rifles right now if we could accurately and near instantaneously measure the wind.

 
Re: Rifle of the future

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Blackops_2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Personally seems as though it takes the point of precision shooting. IMO it's the sense of accomplishment a person gets when it's them that is the cause of putting a first round hit on target at a distance. Rather than some system doing everything for you.
</div></div>

It depends on what the "point" is. If the "point" is to have a competition, yes, this takes the fun out of it. If the "point" is to successfully accomplish a mission as opposed to feeling a sense of personal accomplishment, then I would think technology would be invited.

Many hunters get tired of pulling the triggers on deer, finding it too easy. They move on to bow-hunting. The military doesn't really work that way.

And BTW... I am not a sniper, but I find RedGoat's comment amusing about any dumb dumb making hits. I think there is a LOT more to it than getting hits. If that is lower on the criteria list, I can start selecting people who are better at reconnaissance and fieldcraft / tactics.

Again, I know nothing about being a sniper, but based on all that I have read here and elsewhere, it seems marksmanship alone does not make a sniper.
 
Re: Rifle of the future

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gme</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What happens when the battery dies?
</div></div>

Same thing you would do when your range finder, flash light, eotech, night vision, or thermal imaging batteries die. Replace them. The scope can be turned off and a normal retical comes up and the rifle can be shot as normal. Snipers that I have known, that have been in combat situations, have a dot sight system and even open sight systems on their rifles. They will not be caught without a way to aim their rifle.
 
Re: Rifle of the future

price point will keep these from being widely fielded even if the other obvious flaws don't. you MIGHT have a few rich guys/gals shooting them but most of us will still be doing it the way we are now for a LONG time.
 
Re: Rifle of the future

auto trans in those big rigs aren't very efficient compared to a person who knows how to drive a manual. same goes with small cars too. I went through 2 mustangs when i was younger. both were the same year and model but the last one was a stick shift. i had better gas mileage out of it and it lasted longer than the automatic. i have an automatic in my truck now and i hate it but my wife wouldn't be able to drive my truck if it was a stick so I'm going to keep it.

as far as shooting goes this thing is pretty damn cool. not very practical for combat though. technology like the leads to complacency in some ways and if the system failed they would have to use the skills anyway so why carry the extra weight with this and the batteries (ounces equal pounds, pounds equal pain).

might be good for a swat team or something. i see very few practical application for this system and the ones i do see aren't being used on the sniper sections bolt gun but instead on a semi auto for the observer or security element.

thats just my mindset though. I'm sure others could find a use for it
 
Re: Rifle of the future

That trigger thing makes me wonder.

No way to cancel the shot after the "set the trigger tracking point lock magical sillyness" is pulled but shot isn't lined up?

Risky idea to make the gun fire itself whenever the scope "thinks" it's aligned.

That's a lawsuit waiting to happen...
 
Re: Rifle of the future

yea i didn't understand that either. maybe if you let go of the trigger it will cancel the shot.

what i don't understand is if you align the shot but your posture it all screwed up and your not holding the rifle stead and its swaying back and forth wouldn't that alone throw your shot off?


it didn't look like he had to hold it on target for long in order for it to release the shot. you think they would want to insure your steady and then release the shot.

the more i watch the video the less i like it actually. maybe this is for the young video game generation lol
 
Re: Rifle of the future

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: .264</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gme</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What happens when the battery dies?
</div></div>

Same thing you would do when your range finder, flash light, eotech, night vision, or thermal imaging batteries die. Replace them. The scope can be turned off and a normal retical comes up and the rifle can be shot as normal. Snipers that I have known, that have been in combat situations, have a dot sight system and even open sight systems on their rifles. They will not be caught without a way to aim their rifle. </div></div>

Does it lock on and calculate lead on a moving target?
 
Re: Rifle of the future

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gme</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: .264</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gme</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What happens when the battery dies?
</div></div>

Same thing you would do when your range finder, flash light, eotech, night vision, or thermal imaging batteries die. Replace them. The scope can be turned off and a normal retical comes up and the rifle can be shot as normal. Snipers that I have known, that have been in combat situations, have a dot sight system and even open sight systems on their rifles. They will not be caught without a way to aim their rifle. </div></div>

Does it lock on and calculate lead on a moving target? </div></div>

I have shot the rifle and it is truly amazing and almost unreal. The tracking softwart will track a target up to 15mph and calculate the ballistics at 60 times a second. It has a digital display that displays the wind you dial in and the range. When you dial in your wind in miles per hour, it calculates that as well. To test the tagging system, I tagged the target I wanted to shoot. I moved to another target and the gun would not fire. If I moved the the crosshairs to far from my tag, the tag was canceled. If I changed my mind of which target I wanted to shoot, simply retagged the target I chose to shoot and it canceled the first tag instantly. Long story long. I tagged the first target, moved to the second target, tagged it and shot and hit within 5 - 10 seconds. I didnt hold the crosshairs steady, I swept them across the tag and it HIT!!! Calculated my movement and allowed the trigger to funtion at the right time. I will own one! It is going to be a miserable wait until mine is ready. They are taking orders now and they will ship the first batch in Febuary. They are selling them and production is filling up. Call Allen Mckee at 512-657-1525. He is helping them develop their civilian market if you have any question... You will not be sorry you looked into this.
 
Re: Rifle of the future

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lostcoyote</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ya... now let's see it's true performance with a non-homogenous cross wind blowing.</div></div>

Measurement and correction of wind at varying distances can be already done with LIDAR techniques.
 
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