that teach the use of a FFP scope? Or maybe this question. When you arrive at the sniper school can you bring what ever rifle and scope combo you want? Or do you have to use what is issued? If you use what is issued, what is issued?
Rifle Scopes Are there any Military Sniper Schools
- Thread starter phillip61
- Start date
Re: Are there any Military Sniper Schools
Standard military rules - you use what you're given. No questions. There's a reason the rifles are set up the way they are, so learn to use what you're given before you try to 'improve' it.
Standard military rules - you use what you're given. No questions. There's a reason the rifles are set up the way they are, so learn to use what you're given before you try to 'improve' it.
Re: Are there any Military Sniper Schools
Yes the U.S. Army has one and so do the U.S. Marines. It's pretty easy to sign up for just go down to your local recruiting office. I'm sure they would be glad to have you.
LMFAO!!
Yes the U.S. Army has one and so do the U.S. Marines. It's pretty easy to sign up for just go down to your local recruiting office. I'm sure they would be glad to have you.
LMFAO!!
Re: Are there any Military Sniper Schools
sniperschool.com
sniperschool.com
Re: Are there any Military Sniper Schools
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: skkeeter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">sniperschool.com</div></div>
...link must be broken
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: skkeeter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">sniperschool.com</div></div>
...link must be broken
Re: Are there any Military Sniper Schools
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hink</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Standard military rules - you use what you're given. No questions. There's a reason the rifles are set up the way they are, so learn to use what you're given before you try to 'improve' it.</div></div>
Yes, but what are you given? A SFP or a FFP?
When I was in we used what we were issued. I had a M-16 issued to me at my unit. I had other weapons issued to me a different schools I went to. I was just wondering if the military sniper schools were the same, or could you bring your units equipment.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hink</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Standard military rules - you use what you're given. No questions. There's a reason the rifles are set up the way they are, so learn to use what you're given before you try to 'improve' it.</div></div>
Yes, but what are you given? A SFP or a FFP?
When I was in we used what we were issued. I had a M-16 issued to me at my unit. I had other weapons issued to me a different schools I went to. I was just wondering if the military sniper schools were the same, or could you bring your units equipment.
Re: Are there any Military Sniper Schools
I think the standard sniper day optic in the Army currently is a FFP Leupold.
Don't know if you use school weapons or unit weapons, but they should be pretty much the same.
SOTIC if that's still what its called is totally different, and primarily for units with much more freedom of choice so equipment is likely different too.
I think the standard sniper day optic in the Army currently is a FFP Leupold.
Don't know if you use school weapons or unit weapons, but they should be pretty much the same.
SOTIC if that's still what its called is totally different, and primarily for units with much more freedom of choice so equipment is likely different too.
Re: Are there any Military Sniper Schools
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 78steeler</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes the U.S. Army has one and so do the U.S. Marines. It's pretty easy to sign up for just go down to your local recruiting office. I'm sure they would be glad to have you.
LMFAO!! </div></div>
Me too and I'm falling out of my chair!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 78steeler</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes the U.S. Army has one and so do the U.S. Marines. It's pretty easy to sign up for just go down to your local recruiting office. I'm sure they would be glad to have you.
LMFAO!! </div></div>
Me too and I'm falling out of my chair!
Re: Are there any Military Sniper Schools
I earned my B4 ASI through a mobile training team. Fort Benning sent 4 sniper school instructors to Alaska to train 15 students from the 6th ID and 23 from the AKNG cheaper for the Army to send 4 instructors We used our unit issued equipment which was a M24 SWS with fixed 10x scope
I earned my B4 ASI through a mobile training team. Fort Benning sent 4 sniper school instructors to Alaska to train 15 students from the 6th ID and 23 from the AKNG cheaper for the Army to send 4 instructors We used our unit issued equipment which was a M24 SWS with fixed 10x scope
Re: Are there any Military Sniper Schools
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: insight3b</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I earned my B4 ASI through a mobile training team. Fort Benning sent 4 sniper school instructors to Alaska to train 15 students from the 6th ID and 23 from the AKNG cheaper for the Army to send 4 instructors We used our unit issued equipment which was a M24 SWS with fixed 10x scope</div></div>
Thats the kind of answer I was looking for. Thats cool that ya'll got to use your own stuff.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: insight3b</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I earned my B4 ASI through a mobile training team. Fort Benning sent 4 sniper school instructors to Alaska to train 15 students from the 6th ID and 23 from the AKNG cheaper for the Army to send 4 instructors We used our unit issued equipment which was a M24 SWS with fixed 10x scope</div></div>
Thats the kind of answer I was looking for. Thats cool that ya'll got to use your own stuff.
Re: Are there any Military Sniper Schools
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: insight3b</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I earned my B4 ASI through a mobile training team. Fort Benning sent 4 sniper school instructors to Alaska to train 15 students from the 6th ID and 23 from the AKNG cheaper for the Army to send 4 instructors We used our unit issued equipment which was a M24 SWS with fixed 10x scope </div></div>
Good info for sure. Since the OP seemed interested in optics, I assume current, could you also say what year was this? 6th ID (light) hasn't been around for a while, having become the 172nd in the late 90s and now being the 1st Brigade Combat Team (stryker).
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: insight3b</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I earned my B4 ASI through a mobile training team. Fort Benning sent 4 sniper school instructors to Alaska to train 15 students from the 6th ID and 23 from the AKNG cheaper for the Army to send 4 instructors We used our unit issued equipment which was a M24 SWS with fixed 10x scope </div></div>
Good info for sure. Since the OP seemed interested in optics, I assume current, could you also say what year was this? 6th ID (light) hasn't been around for a while, having become the 172nd in the late 90s and now being the 1st Brigade Combat Team (stryker).
Re: Are there any Military Sniper Schools
Recondo, the school on Benning started around 87 I think, pretty sure the Guard had a school in the 90's as well, not sure if its still around though. The M24 were new kit in 89 with the M3 10x Ultra, not sure if the scopes they are using today are FFP or SFP. As for the 6th Light, they went away in 94 along with a few other divisions.
Recondo, the school on Benning started around 87 I think, pretty sure the Guard had a school in the 90's as well, not sure if its still around though. The M24 were new kit in 89 with the M3 10x Ultra, not sure if the scopes they are using today are FFP or SFP. As for the 6th Light, they went away in 94 along with a few other divisions.
Re: Are there any Military Sniper Schools
The military is using FFP scopes and have been for quite some time now. Why wouldn't they be teaching their use?
The military is using FFP scopes and have been for quite some time now. Why wouldn't they be teaching their use?
Re: Are there any Military Sniper Schools
Why do you think the Marine Corps, Army, or the Navy Seals would allow you to take your own rifle and scope? The instructors wouldn't be able to help the student because his scope is in MOA and they have only been trained to spot and offer corrections in mils. Then, what about caliber? If you shoot a .375 CT for example, then your instructors won't likely be familiar with that. I can't speak for what the other services use but in the Marines they issue you an M40a3 (.308) or a SASR (.50 bmg) And you use what your instructors tell you to use in school that is if being a hog is anything like the rest of the Marine Corps.
Why do you think the Marine Corps, Army, or the Navy Seals would allow you to take your own rifle and scope? The instructors wouldn't be able to help the student because his scope is in MOA and they have only been trained to spot and offer corrections in mils. Then, what about caliber? If you shoot a .375 CT for example, then your instructors won't likely be familiar with that. I can't speak for what the other services use but in the Marines they issue you an M40a3 (.308) or a SASR (.50 bmg) And you use what your instructors tell you to use in school that is if being a hog is anything like the rest of the Marine Corps.
Re: Are there any Military Sniper Schools
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: recondo84</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was just wondering with the popularity that the FFPs are gaining was any of the snipers schools from any branch teaching their use?</div></div>
It is amazing that our snipers would use FFP scopes considering your book told you otherwise. You would THINK that they would want optics that allowed the shooter to make a precision shot.
I am baffled!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: recondo84</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was just wondering with the popularity that the FFPs are gaining was any of the snipers schools from any branch teaching their use?</div></div>
It is amazing that our snipers would use FFP scopes considering your book told you otherwise. You would THINK that they would want optics that allowed the shooter to make a precision shot.
I am baffled!
Re: Are there any Military Sniper Schools
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: matchking</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: recondo84</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was just wondering with the popularity that the FFPs are gaining was any of the snipers schools from any branch teaching their use?</div></div>
It is amazing that our snipers would use FFP scopes considering your book told you otherwise. You would THINK that they would want optics that allowed the shooter to make a precision shot.
I am baffled! </div></div>
You're gonna have to start using the <span style="color: #3333FF"><span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">sarcasm font</span></span></span>.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: matchking</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: recondo84</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was just wondering with the popularity that the FFPs are gaining was any of the snipers schools from any branch teaching their use?</div></div>
It is amazing that our snipers would use FFP scopes considering your book told you otherwise. You would THINK that they would want optics that allowed the shooter to make a precision shot.
I am baffled! </div></div>
You're gonna have to start using the <span style="color: #3333FF"><span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">sarcasm font</span></span></span>.
Re: Are there any Military Sniper Schools
I don't even know what the last few post were about. Sounds like a few of you have some personal issues you need to work out, and I wish you would not try working them out here.
Anyhow, maybe my question was not clear. I do not know what the Army, Marines, or Navy Seals train with at their prospective sniper schools. But it would seem kind of weird to go to sniper school and train on a particular weapon system, graduate the course and be given a different weapon system when you get back to your unit, if you are given the same weapon system then thats great. I do not know how that works and was wanting to know. I also wanted to know that with the popularity that the FFPs are gaining was any of the above mentioned schools either swaping from a SFP to a FFP or at least giving some instruction on their use........that is all. nothing more, nothing less. just that simple question.
I don't even know what the last few post were about. Sounds like a few of you have some personal issues you need to work out, and I wish you would not try working them out here.
Anyhow, maybe my question was not clear. I do not know what the Army, Marines, or Navy Seals train with at their prospective sniper schools. But it would seem kind of weird to go to sniper school and train on a particular weapon system, graduate the course and be given a different weapon system when you get back to your unit, if you are given the same weapon system then thats great. I do not know how that works and was wanting to know. I also wanted to know that with the popularity that the FFPs are gaining was any of the above mentioned schools either swaping from a SFP to a FFP or at least giving some instruction on their use........that is all. nothing more, nothing less. just that simple question.
Re: Are there any Military Sniper Schools
In the 80s (before the Army got its present sniper school up and running the 172nd (out of Ft Richardson) sent their sniper students to the AK NG Sniper School. I was the OIC/Chief Instructor.
Then they used M21s. The Guard was still using M1C/Ds w/the M84 scopes. We got the M21s in the later 80s.
I retired in 92, then the Guard started sending the guys to Camp Robinson and the Army started using the Benning school.
I made the students use issue equipment.
Ft Richardson KD Range. We then moved to the MG range next to Range Central
In the 80s (before the Army got its present sniper school up and running the 172nd (out of Ft Richardson) sent their sniper students to the AK NG Sniper School. I was the OIC/Chief Instructor.
Then they used M21s. The Guard was still using M1C/Ds w/the M84 scopes. We got the M21s in the later 80s.
I retired in 92, then the Guard started sending the guys to Camp Robinson and the Army started using the Benning school.
I made the students use issue equipment.
Ft Richardson KD Range. We then moved to the MG range next to Range Central
Re: Are there any Military Sniper Schools
The service schools will teach students to use what they will draw at their units -- based on standardization of training, as you would know from your signature line as a BRM instructor (I'm not sure you would teach a guy on the line to shoot something he bought at WalMart).
I can't speak for the "Leg" Army School, nor for the Guard or other services.
If you go to a long-range course at the AMU or the All-Army the rifle you get has a First Focal Plain Leupold M3LR. If you go to the Special Forces Sniper School you will learn on what is mounted on the M24 (Leupold M3), M110 (Leupold M3LR), or M2010 (Leupold 6.5–20×50mm M5), or one of the newest SOCOM Schmidt-Bender PM IIs. With the exception of the fixed-power M3 all are First Focal Plain.
The service schools will teach students to use what they will draw at their units -- based on standardization of training, as you would know from your signature line as a BRM instructor (I'm not sure you would teach a guy on the line to shoot something he bought at WalMart).
I can't speak for the "Leg" Army School, nor for the Guard or other services.
If you go to a long-range course at the AMU or the All-Army the rifle you get has a First Focal Plain Leupold M3LR. If you go to the Special Forces Sniper School you will learn on what is mounted on the M24 (Leupold M3), M110 (Leupold M3LR), or M2010 (Leupold 6.5–20×50mm M5), or one of the newest SOCOM Schmidt-Bender PM IIs. With the exception of the fixed-power M3 all are First Focal Plain.
Re: Are there any Military Sniper Schools
The last 15 years I was in I was stationed at Camp Robinson. There are Army Reserve units there also. I had the opportunity sevrial times to go visit the sniper school there because we shot on some of the same ranges, but I don't remember what equipment they used. I always heard good things about the school. But as to my question, I was wondering if the school at any sniper school was teaching the use of the FFP scopes. As fast as they seem to be gaining popularity I would think if they are not it probably won't be long before they do. But that brings up the question if you go to sniper school and get taught the ins and outs of a FFP scope then will you be issued the same when you get back to your home unit? Or do they still train everyone on the traditional SFP?
The last 15 years I was in I was stationed at Camp Robinson. There are Army Reserve units there also. I had the opportunity sevrial times to go visit the sniper school there because we shot on some of the same ranges, but I don't remember what equipment they used. I always heard good things about the school. But as to my question, I was wondering if the school at any sniper school was teaching the use of the FFP scopes. As fast as they seem to be gaining popularity I would think if they are not it probably won't be long before they do. But that brings up the question if you go to sniper school and get taught the ins and outs of a FFP scope then will you be issued the same when you get back to your home unit? Or do they still train everyone on the traditional SFP?
Re: Are there any Military Sniper Schools
The Marine Corps teaches and uses FFP but you are also taught about SFP. The only time I used a SFP in the Corps was a NF scope on an XM3 which never became issued. Other than that, pretty much every scope you are going to use in the Marines on a SWS is FFP that I know of.
The Marine Corps teaches and uses FFP but you are also taught about SFP. The only time I used a SFP in the Corps was a NF scope on an XM3 which never became issued. Other than that, pretty much every scope you are going to use in the Marines on a SWS is FFP that I know of.
Re: Are there any Military Sniper Schools
As far as I know, Marine Corps M40's have never been issued with a SFP scope. The Unertls were fixed 10x, the S&B 3-12x are FFP and the Premier 3-15x are also FFP. The only SFP scopes in USMC inventory that I can think of would be the Leupolds and Nightforces issued with MK12 SPR's and the old M14 DMR's.
But to answer your question, Scout Sniper School students would be shooting with FFP scopes because FFP is what they'll be issued in the fleet. Whether they're taught SFP as well, I do not know.
As far as I know, Marine Corps M40's have never been issued with a SFP scope. The Unertls were fixed 10x, the S&B 3-12x are FFP and the Premier 3-15x are also FFP. The only SFP scopes in USMC inventory that I can think of would be the Leupolds and Nightforces issued with MK12 SPR's and the old M14 DMR's.
But to answer your question, Scout Sniper School students would be shooting with FFP scopes because FFP is what they'll be issued in the fleet. Whether they're taught SFP as well, I do not know.
Re: Are there any Military Sniper Schools
I read the book "American Sniper". about the guy that has more confirmed kills than anyone. He said several times in the book he had several weapons to choose from on a daily basis. It got me to thinking was he taught how to use all of them at the sniper school he went through?
I read the book "American Sniper". about the guy that has more confirmed kills than anyone. He said several times in the book he had several weapons to choose from on a daily basis. It got me to thinking was he taught how to use all of them at the sniper school he went through?
Re: Are there any Military Sniper Schools
No, but there is a big big difference in Big Army/USMC and the Tier 2 and Tier 1 Special Operations groups as to what they can and cannot do weapon wise.
No, but there is a big big difference in Big Army/USMC and the Tier 2 and Tier 1 Special Operations groups as to what they can and cannot do weapon wise.
Re: Are there any Military Sniper Schools
Yeah, the main thing is training someone on the milliradian system, once you've got that down, FFP really isn't a big deal. You said you read 'American Sniper', do you really think the Navy handed Chris a .300 Win Mag that he'd never fired before with a scope mounted that he was unfamiliar with & said "You can figure it out on the fly"? Do you really think he'd have how ever many confirmed kills if they didn't invest a bunch of money into training him along with all the other snipers? What do you think these guys do when they're not deployed? Answer: TRAIN!!!
Yeah, the main thing is training someone on the milliradian system, once you've got that down, FFP really isn't a big deal. You said you read 'American Sniper', do you really think the Navy handed Chris a .300 Win Mag that he'd never fired before with a scope mounted that he was unfamiliar with & said "You can figure it out on the fly"? Do you really think he'd have how ever many confirmed kills if they didn't invest a bunch of money into training him along with all the other snipers? What do you think these guys do when they're not deployed? Answer: TRAIN!!!
Re: Are there any Military Sniper Schools
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: J-Ham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yeah, the main thing is training someone on the milliradian system, once you've got that down, FFP really isn't a big deal. You said you read 'American Sniper', do you really think the Navy handed Chris a .300 Win Mag that he'd never fired before with a scope mounted that he was unfamiliar with & said "You can figure it out on the fly"? Do you really think he'd have how ever many confirmed kills if they didn't invest a bunch of money into training him along with all the other snipers? What do you think these guys do when they're not deployed? Answer: TRAIN!!! </div></div>
Sometimes things are so obvious assuming they are understood often leads to mistakes. It hasn't been said here specifically, but it should be stated that as far as "snipers" are concerned, they take their rifles with them. Build dope, etc, etc. People don't generally move around in that billet and get handed strange gear.
It's also been my understanding that fixed and FFP are the common formats.
TTR
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: J-Ham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yeah, the main thing is training someone on the milliradian system, once you've got that down, FFP really isn't a big deal. You said you read 'American Sniper', do you really think the Navy handed Chris a .300 Win Mag that he'd never fired before with a scope mounted that he was unfamiliar with & said "You can figure it out on the fly"? Do you really think he'd have how ever many confirmed kills if they didn't invest a bunch of money into training him along with all the other snipers? What do you think these guys do when they're not deployed? Answer: TRAIN!!! </div></div>
Sometimes things are so obvious assuming they are understood often leads to mistakes. It hasn't been said here specifically, but it should be stated that as far as "snipers" are concerned, they take their rifles with them. Build dope, etc, etc. People don't generally move around in that billet and get handed strange gear.
It's also been my understanding that fixed and FFP are the common formats.
TTR
Re: Are there any Military Sniper Schools
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
</div></div>
I've man-loved on this pic in the past. Just the fact there is an ACTUAL Photograph of military using M1D/C's in the 80s is amazing to me. I half-expect to zoom in certain places and see Bigfoot in the trees as well.
Just as amazing.
TTR
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I've man-loved on this pic in the past. Just the fact there is an ACTUAL Photograph of military using M1D/C's in the 80s is amazing to me. I half-expect to zoom in certain places and see Bigfoot in the trees as well.
Just as amazing.
TTR
Re: Are there any Military Sniper Schools
I am not going to comment on what unit uses what but I was fairly impressed the the army sniper team finished first with a 10x M3 on a M-24 in a sniper competition recently. A lot of the other competing countries were using FFP and they were engaging targets to 1000 meters and still lost to the team with the 10xM3
I have FFP and SPf scopes and most of the time I leave mine on 10x to engage targets to 800yds with no issue.
I am not going to comment on what unit uses what but I was fairly impressed the the army sniper team finished first with a 10x M3 on a M-24 in a sniper competition recently. A lot of the other competing countries were using FFP and they were engaging targets to 1000 meters and still lost to the team with the 10xM3
I have FFP and SPf scopes and most of the time I leave mine on 10x to engage targets to 800yds with no issue.
Re: Are there any Military Sniper Schools
Vapor trail in Kinston, NC
They will teach you how to range with your FFP
or anything else you bring.
Theres another in Va. Cant remember the name but
it has a 1500yrd range. The NC has 1000
Not a sniper school but more long range shooting
Vapor trail in Kinston, NC
They will teach you how to range with your FFP
or anything else you bring.
Theres another in Va. Cant remember the name but
it has a 1500yrd range. The NC has 1000
Not a sniper school but more long range shooting
Re: Are there any Military Sniper Schools
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MECH1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am not going to comment on what unit uses what but I was fairly impressed the the army sniper team finished first with a 10x M3 on a M-24 in a sniper competition recently. A lot of the other competing countries were using FFP and they were engaging targets to 1000 meters and still lost to the team with the 10xM3
I have FFP and SPf scopes and most of the time I leave mine on 10x to engage targets to 800yds with no issue. </div></div>
If you have a fixed power scope, it doesn't matter where the reticle is located (FFP o SFP), because the dots/marks always substends the same
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MECH1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am not going to comment on what unit uses what but I was fairly impressed the the army sniper team finished first with a 10x M3 on a M-24 in a sniper competition recently. A lot of the other competing countries were using FFP and they were engaging targets to 1000 meters and still lost to the team with the 10xM3
I have FFP and SPf scopes and most of the time I leave mine on 10x to engage targets to 800yds with no issue. </div></div>
If you have a fixed power scope, it doesn't matter where the reticle is located (FFP o SFP), because the dots/marks always substends the same
Re: Are there any Military Sniper Schools
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TiroFijo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MECH1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am not going to comment on what unit uses what but I was fairly impressed the the army sniper team finished first with a 10x M3 on a M-24 in a sniper competition recently. A lot of the other competing countries were using FFP and they were engaging targets to 1000 meters and still lost to the team with the 10xM3
I have FFP and SPf scopes and most of the time I leave mine on 10x to engage targets to 800yds with no issue. </div></div>
I watch the sniper compititions on the military channel when they have them on, last year I was watching one and the Army sniper team did very well in that one also.
And this post kind of goes along with my original question, The Army has used the above mentioned rifle scope combo for quite awhile now, and was wondering if they had started training with the FFp,s yet? and if not how long will they hold out? I'm a "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" kind of guy anyway. But if they are not already it is just a matter of time before they start.
I'm not a sniper, I don't pretend to be a sniper, I never was almost a sniper, but I was a 11B in the army for 23 years so I feel like I know a few things about a few things but in my opinion looking back at the traditional role of the army sniper. I see no need for a FFP. Snipers have spotters to range their targets and give all corrections. So I don't get it, but I understand that things change and in 10-15 years from now a FFP will most likely be out dated.
If you have a fixed power scope, it doesn't matter where the reticle is located (FFP o SFP), because the dots/marks always substends the same </div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TiroFijo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MECH1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am not going to comment on what unit uses what but I was fairly impressed the the army sniper team finished first with a 10x M3 on a M-24 in a sniper competition recently. A lot of the other competing countries were using FFP and they were engaging targets to 1000 meters and still lost to the team with the 10xM3
I have FFP and SPf scopes and most of the time I leave mine on 10x to engage targets to 800yds with no issue. </div></div>
I watch the sniper compititions on the military channel when they have them on, last year I was watching one and the Army sniper team did very well in that one also.
And this post kind of goes along with my original question, The Army has used the above mentioned rifle scope combo for quite awhile now, and was wondering if they had started training with the FFp,s yet? and if not how long will they hold out? I'm a "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" kind of guy anyway. But if they are not already it is just a matter of time before they start.
I'm not a sniper, I don't pretend to be a sniper, I never was almost a sniper, but I was a 11B in the army for 23 years so I feel like I know a few things about a few things but in my opinion looking back at the traditional role of the army sniper. I see no need for a FFP. Snipers have spotters to range their targets and give all corrections. So I don't get it, but I understand that things change and in 10-15 years from now a FFP will most likely be out dated.
If you have a fixed power scope, it doesn't matter where the reticle is located (FFP o SFP), because the dots/marks always substends the same
Re: Are there any Military Sniper Schools
I am sure the army has FFP scopes and uses them but locally I see more 10x fixed than anything. In my opinion the FFP scopes has little uses on low-power. And I am not sure what sort of training really goes in to using a scope. It's basic math fundamentals and if it is FFP it ranges the same no matter what power. So I am not sure what the OP is looking for. Buy a scope learn the math computations that go with the scope and go practice ranging stuff. I don't think "SNIPER" school will teach you some hidden scope secret about using math to range with a scope. They may teach you shooting techniques that are different than you can learn from a book but not much use to you unless that is your job. Goodluck
I am sure the army has FFP scopes and uses them but locally I see more 10x fixed than anything. In my opinion the FFP scopes has little uses on low-power. And I am not sure what sort of training really goes in to using a scope. It's basic math fundamentals and if it is FFP it ranges the same no matter what power. So I am not sure what the OP is looking for. Buy a scope learn the math computations that go with the scope and go practice ranging stuff. I don't think "SNIPER" school will teach you some hidden scope secret about using math to range with a scope. They may teach you shooting techniques that are different than you can learn from a book but not much use to you unless that is your job. Goodluck
Re: Are there any Military Sniper Schools
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: recondo84</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MECH1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am not going to comment on what unit uses what but I was fairly impressed the the army sniper team finished first with a 10x M3 on a M-24 in a sniper competition recently. A lot of the other competing countries were using FFP and they were engaging targets to 1000 meters and still lost to the team with the 10xM3
I have FFP and SPf scopes and most of the time I leave mine on 10x to engage targets to 800yds with no issue. </div></div>
I watch the sniper compititions on the military channel when they have them on, last year I was watching one and the Army sniper team did very well in that one also.
And this post kind of goes along with my original question, The Army has used the above mentioned rifle scope combo for quite awhile now, and was wondering if they had started training with the FFp,s yet? and if not how long will they hold out? I'm a "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" kind of guy anyway. But if they are not already it is just a matter of time before they start.
I'm not a sniper, I don't pretend to be a sniper, I never was almost a sniper, but I was a 11B in the army for 23 years so I feel like I know a few things about a few things but in my opinion looking back at the traditional role of the army sniper. I see no need for a FFP. Snipers have spotters to range their targets and give all corrections. So I don't get it, but I understand that things change and in 10-15 years from now a FFP will most likely be out dated. </div></div>
OK, now I see a bit where you're going with. The Marine Corps uses two different FFP scopes as the primary sights for the M40Ax rifles. The Army is using a FFP scope on the XM2010 rifles. The shift from a fixed 10x to variable power optics was one that was greatly needed and something that was the number one request in the Scout Sniper community followed by suppressors (my own opinion). Urban environments where the need for more FOV at closer ranges was the biggest driving force in that move. Going FFP was the only way to go in my opinion and I was still an active duty sniper when the shift started happening. Too much happens on the battlefield to have to worry about if your magnification is set on a specific setting, hence the need for FFP optics.
As for the spotter giving ranges, well yes, rarely are teams ever milling out a target for range but what they are doing is using the mil reticle for wind and elevation holds. You said it yourself that the spotter is giving corrections, well the majority of the time those corrections aren't being dialed, they're being held. FFP is the only way to ensure those are applied correctly every single time no matter what the conditions and situation is.
I hope this better answers your questions.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: recondo84</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MECH1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am not going to comment on what unit uses what but I was fairly impressed the the army sniper team finished first with a 10x M3 on a M-24 in a sniper competition recently. A lot of the other competing countries were using FFP and they were engaging targets to 1000 meters and still lost to the team with the 10xM3
I have FFP and SPf scopes and most of the time I leave mine on 10x to engage targets to 800yds with no issue. </div></div>
I watch the sniper compititions on the military channel when they have them on, last year I was watching one and the Army sniper team did very well in that one also.
And this post kind of goes along with my original question, The Army has used the above mentioned rifle scope combo for quite awhile now, and was wondering if they had started training with the FFp,s yet? and if not how long will they hold out? I'm a "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" kind of guy anyway. But if they are not already it is just a matter of time before they start.
I'm not a sniper, I don't pretend to be a sniper, I never was almost a sniper, but I was a 11B in the army for 23 years so I feel like I know a few things about a few things but in my opinion looking back at the traditional role of the army sniper. I see no need for a FFP. Snipers have spotters to range their targets and give all corrections. So I don't get it, but I understand that things change and in 10-15 years from now a FFP will most likely be out dated. </div></div>
OK, now I see a bit where you're going with. The Marine Corps uses two different FFP scopes as the primary sights for the M40Ax rifles. The Army is using a FFP scope on the XM2010 rifles. The shift from a fixed 10x to variable power optics was one that was greatly needed and something that was the number one request in the Scout Sniper community followed by suppressors (my own opinion). Urban environments where the need for more FOV at closer ranges was the biggest driving force in that move. Going FFP was the only way to go in my opinion and I was still an active duty sniper when the shift started happening. Too much happens on the battlefield to have to worry about if your magnification is set on a specific setting, hence the need for FFP optics.
As for the spotter giving ranges, well yes, rarely are teams ever milling out a target for range but what they are doing is using the mil reticle for wind and elevation holds. You said it yourself that the spotter is giving corrections, well the majority of the time those corrections aren't being dialed, they're being held. FFP is the only way to ensure those are applied correctly every single time no matter what the conditions and situation is.
I hope this better answers your questions.
Re: Are there any Military Sniper Schools
That was a very cool answer, Thanks for the info. I knew sooner or later someone that had actually been through the school would pony up a answer. I broke a ankle back in 85 in Honduras. It bothered me through out my career so I never could go to any more "high speed" schools after that. I went to Air Assault in 83 and Recondo in 84. I did not shoot expert in basic, Back when I went through in 81 (Ft. Benning) we shot 20 from the foxhole and 20 from the prone. You had to hit 36 or more for expert I shot 34. But I qualified expert the majority of the time afterwards. Went to a school called "Battle Skills" in 83 or 84 and won a plaque for best shooter in the class. I hit 18-20 from 300yds with a M-16. The last year I was in (2005) I was the only person to qualify expert so the Sargent Major gave me a coin. Those are my two claims to shooting fame.
But was just wondering with the popularity that the FFp's are gaining what was going on with them in our sniper schools and I will except your answer as being correct and current. Thanks for the input and thanks for your service.
That was a very cool answer, Thanks for the info. I knew sooner or later someone that had actually been through the school would pony up a answer. I broke a ankle back in 85 in Honduras. It bothered me through out my career so I never could go to any more "high speed" schools after that. I went to Air Assault in 83 and Recondo in 84. I did not shoot expert in basic, Back when I went through in 81 (Ft. Benning) we shot 20 from the foxhole and 20 from the prone. You had to hit 36 or more for expert I shot 34. But I qualified expert the majority of the time afterwards. Went to a school called "Battle Skills" in 83 or 84 and won a plaque for best shooter in the class. I hit 18-20 from 300yds with a M-16. The last year I was in (2005) I was the only person to qualify expert so the Sargent Major gave me a coin. Those are my two claims to shooting fame.
But was just wondering with the popularity that the FFp's are gaining what was going on with them in our sniper schools and I will except your answer as being correct and current. Thanks for the input and thanks for your service.
Re: Are there any Military Sniper Schools
No worries, glad to help and thanks for yours too!
No worries, glad to help and thanks for yours too!
Re: Are there any Military Sniper Schools
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Redmanss</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: recondo84</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MECH1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am not going to comment on what unit uses what but I was fairly impressed the the army sniper team finished first with a 10x M3 on a M-24 in a sniper competition recently. A lot of the other competing countries were using FFP and they were engaging targets to 1000 meters and still lost to the team with the 10xM3
I have FFP and SPf scopes and most of the time I leave mine on 10x to engage targets to 800yds with no issue. </div></div>
I watch the sniper compititions on the military channel when they have them on, last year I was watching one and the Army sniper team did very well in that one also.
And this post kind of goes along with my original question, The Army has used the above mentioned rifle scope combo for quite awhile now, and was wondering if they had started training with the FFp,s yet? and if not how long will they hold out? I'm a "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" kind of guy anyway. But if they are not already it is just a matter of time before they start.
I'm not a sniper, I don't pretend to be a sniper, I never was almost a sniper, but I was a 11B in the army for 23 years so I feel like I know a few things about a few things but in my opinion looking back at the traditional role of the army sniper. I see no need for a FFP. Snipers have spotters to range their targets and give all corrections. So I don't get it, but I understand that things change and in 10-15 years from now a FFP will most likely be out dated. </div></div>
OK, now I see a bit where you're going with. The Marine Corps uses two different FFP scopes as the primary sights for the M40Ax rifles. The Army is using a FFP scope on the XM2010 rifles. The shift from a fixed 10x to variable power optics was one that was greatly needed and something that was the number one request in the Scout Sniper community followed by suppressors (my own opinion). Urban environments where the need for more FOV at closer ranges was the biggest driving force in that move. Going FFP was the only way to go in my opinion and I was still an active duty sniper when the shift started happening. Too much happens on the battlefield to have to worry about if your magnification is set on a specific setting, hence the need for FFP optics.
As for the spotter giving ranges, well yes, rarely are teams ever milling out a target for range but what they are doing is using the mil reticle for wind and elevation holds. You said it yourself that the spotter is giving corrections, well the majority of the time those corrections aren't being dialed, they're being held. FFP is the only way to ensure those are applied correctly every single time no matter what the conditions and situation is.
I hope this better answers your questions. </div></div>
Additionally, the "hold over" is FASTER and in a dynamic environment...it's really essential; really, it’s the only way to operate and be able to keep up with moving "targets."
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Redmanss</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: recondo84</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MECH1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am not going to comment on what unit uses what but I was fairly impressed the the army sniper team finished first with a 10x M3 on a M-24 in a sniper competition recently. A lot of the other competing countries were using FFP and they were engaging targets to 1000 meters and still lost to the team with the 10xM3
I have FFP and SPf scopes and most of the time I leave mine on 10x to engage targets to 800yds with no issue. </div></div>
I watch the sniper compititions on the military channel when they have them on, last year I was watching one and the Army sniper team did very well in that one also.
And this post kind of goes along with my original question, The Army has used the above mentioned rifle scope combo for quite awhile now, and was wondering if they had started training with the FFp,s yet? and if not how long will they hold out? I'm a "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" kind of guy anyway. But if they are not already it is just a matter of time before they start.
I'm not a sniper, I don't pretend to be a sniper, I never was almost a sniper, but I was a 11B in the army for 23 years so I feel like I know a few things about a few things but in my opinion looking back at the traditional role of the army sniper. I see no need for a FFP. Snipers have spotters to range their targets and give all corrections. So I don't get it, but I understand that things change and in 10-15 years from now a FFP will most likely be out dated. </div></div>
OK, now I see a bit where you're going with. The Marine Corps uses two different FFP scopes as the primary sights for the M40Ax rifles. The Army is using a FFP scope on the XM2010 rifles. The shift from a fixed 10x to variable power optics was one that was greatly needed and something that was the number one request in the Scout Sniper community followed by suppressors (my own opinion). Urban environments where the need for more FOV at closer ranges was the biggest driving force in that move. Going FFP was the only way to go in my opinion and I was still an active duty sniper when the shift started happening. Too much happens on the battlefield to have to worry about if your magnification is set on a specific setting, hence the need for FFP optics.
As for the spotter giving ranges, well yes, rarely are teams ever milling out a target for range but what they are doing is using the mil reticle for wind and elevation holds. You said it yourself that the spotter is giving corrections, well the majority of the time those corrections aren't being dialed, they're being held. FFP is the only way to ensure those are applied correctly every single time no matter what the conditions and situation is.
I hope this better answers your questions. </div></div>
Additionally, the "hold over" is FASTER and in a dynamic environment...it's really essential; really, it’s the only way to operate and be able to keep up with moving "targets."
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