I'm needing some help. I have a heavy bull 24" Criterion .308 barrel 1:10 twist on a Savage Action and a Manners stock. Our matches start at 300 yds and progress out to 1400yds. I've tried mostly 175 SMKs with between 44.0gr and 46.0gr of Varget and occasionally I get a 1/2 group at 100 but mostly am closer to 1" range. I've tried some Nosler 168gr competition and Hornady 178gr Amax but with about the same results (maybe a 1" group at 100 is ok?). As you can imagine, I've spent quite a bit on reloading components and would like to know what others are using with best results. A 1:10 barrel might shoot better with a heavier bullets but I had to spend another $40-50 bucks on a box of Bergers or whatever to see. Anyone out there shooting Criterion barrel with that twist?
Range Report Criterion .308 barrel
- Thread starter kansas
- Start date
Re: Criterion .308 barrel
last one I had, same bbl as your's, liked my M118LR clone load...
LC LR 08 brass, win primer, 43.1gr RL15, 175SMK, @ 2.82" C.O.A.L.
last one I had, same bbl as your's, liked my M118LR clone load...
LC LR 08 brass, win primer, 43.1gr RL15, 175SMK, @ 2.82" C.O.A.L.
Re: Criterion .308 barrel
Just curious, correct if im wrong but wouldnt 1-10 favor lighter rounds? Try a handfull of 155's with 43-44 varget and work your way up.
Just curious, correct if im wrong but wouldnt 1-10 favor lighter rounds? Try a handfull of 155's with 43-44 varget and work your way up.
Re: Criterion .308 barrel
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SavageMOA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just curious, correct if im wrong but wouldnt 1-10 favor lighter rounds? Try a handfull of 155's with 43-44 varget and work your way up. </div></div>
1:10 is a faster twist than say a 1:12... Thus providing more stability (spin) for a heavier bullet.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SavageMOA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just curious, correct if im wrong but wouldnt 1-10 favor lighter rounds? Try a handfull of 155's with 43-44 varget and work your way up. </div></div>
1:10 is a faster twist than say a 1:12... Thus providing more stability (spin) for a heavier bullet.
Re: Criterion .308 barrel
chose the .308 before doing enough homework. Most people I shoot with are shooting the .308 because it is easy to find components and rifles for it however after doing more research it appears that there are better choices. Our matches require that we limit it to .300 mag but some of the shooters I know are going to the .260. I've got to try to find something that shoots better through my rifle than what I have now. The 175 SMKs shoot ok but I'd like to find that "great" bullet and powder load.
chose the .308 before doing enough homework. Most people I shoot with are shooting the .308 because it is easy to find components and rifles for it however after doing more research it appears that there are better choices. Our matches require that we limit it to .300 mag but some of the shooters I know are going to the .260. I've got to try to find something that shoots better through my rifle than what I have now. The 175 SMKs shoot ok but I'd like to find that "great" bullet and powder load.
Re: Criterion .308 barrel
Someone reminded me that 1:10 doesn't actually mean it will stabilize heavy bullets better, it should stabilize longer bullets better. Which means longer bearing surface. From my reading I've found that this twist should work ok with bullets ranging from 155 gr to 200 gr. I think I'm going to order a box of Berger 185 BTHPLR bullets and give them a spin. I like the BC on these bullets better than the 155 SMKs however they may not fit in my magazine once seated where they need to be. One of the reasons I was axing this question is I don't want to keep buying boxes of bullets that don't work. I've got Nosler 168 gr competition, SMKs 175 gr, and Hornady 178 gr. Amax. All shoot about the same, 1" or just a little less.
Someone reminded me that 1:10 doesn't actually mean it will stabilize heavy bullets better, it should stabilize longer bullets better. Which means longer bearing surface. From my reading I've found that this twist should work ok with bullets ranging from 155 gr to 200 gr. I think I'm going to order a box of Berger 185 BTHPLR bullets and give them a spin. I like the BC on these bullets better than the 155 SMKs however they may not fit in my magazine once seated where they need to be. One of the reasons I was axing this question is I don't want to keep buying boxes of bullets that don't work. I've got Nosler 168 gr competition, SMKs 175 gr, and Hornady 178 gr. Amax. All shoot about the same, 1" or just a little less.
Re: Criterion .308 barrel
I think you're following a well worn path, starting with the .308 and finding temptation toward the .260. IMHO the .308 is attractive to newer shooters for exactly the reasons you chose it, and eventually provides incentive towerd a less marginal chambering. There will be bullets that seem more productive than the 175's but the chambering's limited case capacity doesn't really permit driving them at their more effective velocities. The .300 can help, but does so by expending more energy, when a better answer is a more efficient bullet; hence the popularity of the .260.
Some will suggest the .260 also has restrictive energy limits, and I could agree, but the next logical step, the 6.5-284, IMHO goes as far too far as the .260 is to little.
I'm currently looking at the .280 Rem as a more properly effective/efficient upgrade from the .260. The more common 1:9" twist will handle bullets up to 168gr and that's plenty for the chambering, and I would employ as much barrel length as possible (28" even?), to get the most out of the additional case capacity. I'm still in the initial phases of load development using a 24" 1:9" barrel, and have reached 150gr bullet weights, having also tried 120 and 140 weights (all Nosler Ballistic Tips). H-4350 and H-4831SC appear to be ideal propellents. It this stage, the 150's appear capable of arriving supersonic at 1Kyd, and do not appear to generate as much subjectively noticed recoil as the 175's in a .308. Also, the .280 is LOUD (with 150gr handloads and 150gr Rem Core-Lokd Hunting loads) out of a 22" and 24" barrel! This indicates to me a higher than ideal muzzle pressure, and could support the case for a longer barrel.
Greg
I think you're following a well worn path, starting with the .308 and finding temptation toward the .260. IMHO the .308 is attractive to newer shooters for exactly the reasons you chose it, and eventually provides incentive towerd a less marginal chambering. There will be bullets that seem more productive than the 175's but the chambering's limited case capacity doesn't really permit driving them at their more effective velocities. The .300 can help, but does so by expending more energy, when a better answer is a more efficient bullet; hence the popularity of the .260.
Some will suggest the .260 also has restrictive energy limits, and I could agree, but the next logical step, the 6.5-284, IMHO goes as far too far as the .260 is to little.
I'm currently looking at the .280 Rem as a more properly effective/efficient upgrade from the .260. The more common 1:9" twist will handle bullets up to 168gr and that's plenty for the chambering, and I would employ as much barrel length as possible (28" even?), to get the most out of the additional case capacity. I'm still in the initial phases of load development using a 24" 1:9" barrel, and have reached 150gr bullet weights, having also tried 120 and 140 weights (all Nosler Ballistic Tips). H-4350 and H-4831SC appear to be ideal propellents. It this stage, the 150's appear capable of arriving supersonic at 1Kyd, and do not appear to generate as much subjectively noticed recoil as the 175's in a .308. Also, the .280 is LOUD (with 150gr handloads and 150gr Rem Core-Lokd Hunting loads) out of a 22" and 24" barrel! This indicates to me a higher than ideal muzzle pressure, and could support the case for a longer barrel.
Greg
Re: Criterion .308 barrel
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kansas</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm needing some help. I have a heavy bull 24" Criterion .308 barrel 1:10 twist on a Savage Action and a Manners stock. Our matches start at 300 yds and progress out to 1400yds. </div></div>
Here is the basic problem. The 308 basically runs out of gas by 1300 yards. It starts runing out of gas about 800 yards, and most 308 shooting done beyond 1000 yards is done more more and more carefully selected components.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've tried mostly 175 SMKs with between 44.0gr and 46.0gr of Varget and occasionally I get a 1/2 group at 100 but mostly am closer to 1" range.</div></div>
{The below is under the assumption of sea level pressures}
The 175 is a fine bullet out to 1000 yards, and with really carefully selected barrel lengths, powders, and bit a pushing the pressure envelope, you can get 1150-1200 yards, but it really does not want to go much farther. The 155s can extend this towards 1200-1250, the 208s might get to 1250-1300. But 1400 yards is just a big distance for the chargeweight capacity of the 308 case. 30-06 a bit of pressure pushing is needed, 300WM not a problem.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kansas</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm needing some help. I have a heavy bull 24" Criterion .308 barrel 1:10 twist on a Savage Action and a Manners stock. Our matches start at 300 yds and progress out to 1400yds. </div></div>
Here is the basic problem. The 308 basically runs out of gas by 1300 yards. It starts runing out of gas about 800 yards, and most 308 shooting done beyond 1000 yards is done more more and more carefully selected components.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've tried mostly 175 SMKs with between 44.0gr and 46.0gr of Varget and occasionally I get a 1/2 group at 100 but mostly am closer to 1" range.</div></div>
{The below is under the assumption of sea level pressures}
The 175 is a fine bullet out to 1000 yards, and with really carefully selected barrel lengths, powders, and bit a pushing the pressure envelope, you can get 1150-1200 yards, but it really does not want to go much farther. The 155s can extend this towards 1200-1250, the 208s might get to 1250-1300. But 1400 yards is just a big distance for the chargeweight capacity of the 308 case. 30-06 a bit of pressure pushing is needed, 300WM not a problem.
Re: Criterion .308 barrel
Yep, the .308 does run out of gas around 800 yards. I'd be happy if I could consistently hit everything out to 800 with an occasional hit on 900-1400. Actually I'd like to hit everything out to 1000 but...I'm probably not the guy to get that done.
I found a dealer that sells sample packages of bullets Bulletsample.com and so I'm happy. I've ordered some SMK 155 gr Palmas and some Berger 185 gr BTHP long range bullets. Both ends of the weight spectrum...kinda. I'm happy that I can try several loads and see if they are worth buying a whole box.
Yep, the .308 does run out of gas around 800 yards. I'd be happy if I could consistently hit everything out to 800 with an occasional hit on 900-1400. Actually I'd like to hit everything out to 1000 but...I'm probably not the guy to get that done.
I found a dealer that sells sample packages of bullets Bulletsample.com and so I'm happy. I've ordered some SMK 155 gr Palmas and some Berger 185 gr BTHP long range bullets. Both ends of the weight spectrum...kinda. I'm happy that I can try several loads and see if they are worth buying a whole box.
Re: Criterion .308 barrel
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kansas</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yep, the .308 does run out of gas around 800 yards. I'd be happy if I could consistently hit everything out to 800 with an occasional hit on 900-1400. Actually I'd like to hit everything out to 1000 but...I'm probably not the guy to get that done.
I found a dealer that sells sample packages of bullets Bulletsample.com and so I'm happy. I've ordered some SMK 155 gr Palmas and some Berger 185 gr BTHP long range bullets. Both ends of the weight spectrum...kinda. I'm happy that I can try several loads and see if they are worth buying a whole box.</div></div>
There are probably more .308 rnds. shot at 800-1000yds,than any other cartridge in the world.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kansas</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yep, the .308 does run out of gas around 800 yards. I'd be happy if I could consistently hit everything out to 800 with an occasional hit on 900-1400. Actually I'd like to hit everything out to 1000 but...I'm probably not the guy to get that done.
I found a dealer that sells sample packages of bullets Bulletsample.com and so I'm happy. I've ordered some SMK 155 gr Palmas and some Berger 185 gr BTHP long range bullets. Both ends of the weight spectrum...kinda. I'm happy that I can try several loads and see if they are worth buying a whole box.</div></div>
There are probably more .308 rnds. shot at 800-1000yds,than any other cartridge in the world.
Re: Criterion .308 barrel
46.5 Varget with 155 Lapua Scenar shoot great in my 10-twist Criterion barreled Savage
46.5 Varget with 155 Lapua Scenar shoot great in my 10-twist Criterion barreled Savage
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