Rifle Scopes Universal Language for MIL/MIL vs MOA/MOA

[Shredder58]

OK...real world situation I have to deal with, looking for help from others that have had to deal with this and what works best.

I have a new shooting partner for an upcoming Tactical match. Ranges for shots could be anything...I'm planning mentally for 10 to 1000 yards.

My shooting partner for past matches had the exact same scope that I run, a NF 5-22x56 with MOA/MOA and NP-R1 reticle. This worked well as we were both speaking the same language and looking at the same reticle for calling hits and corrections.

So...here's where I need your feedback and help. My new shooting partner has a great scope, a S&B 5-25x56 with MIL/MIL and H2CMR reticle. What have others found works best as a "universal language" (if such a thing exists) to call hits and corrections in a fast paced match environment to keep confusion and error to a minimum. Need to think "KISS" (Keep it Simple Stupid) so don't really want to hear from any armchair quarterbacks...want to hear from others who have been there and done that.

Thanks much!

 

[gebhardt02]

Re: Universal Language for MIL/MIL vs MOA/MOA

I would discuss it with your new partner first before trying to determine for the both of you how you will operate as a team. If he is local, get to the range together and intentionally put shots off target for the other person to give a correction for.

If you are used to operating in MOA, ask him (I'm assuming it is a guy) if he is comfortable in MOA. If not, how comfortable are you in Mils?

Spend some time figuring out the other method and how it relates to your current system. For example, 3.5 MOA times 1.047" equals 1.66" which is damn close to 1 Mil. (I'm talking at 100 yds here). So for most purposes, 1 Mil is damn close to 3.5 MOA. Or you can figure that 1 MOA is pretty close to 0.30 Mils.

OK, so for calling a correction if you see impact in your MOA reticle as 2 MOA to the right, tell your partner to adjust left 0.6 Mil and keep same hold (assuming the wind hasn't changed value or direction).

But the starting point would be to discuss this with your new shooting partner and see who is more comfortable working in the other persons method, either MOA or Mil.

Good luck to ya.

Geb

 

[Temp9]

Re: Universal Language for MIL/MIL vs MOA/MOA

Yup, the two are identical in concept, just offset by a constant factor. 1 mil = 3.6MOA. Knowing that, it's not difficult to do quick and dirty calculations to convert back and forth. To make it simple, multiply the mil value by 4 and take off 10% to get MOA. Or divide the MOA value by 4 and add 10% to get the mil value.

For example, lets assume we have a 5mil hold and your partner wants MOA. 5mil*4=<span style="font-weight: bold">20</span>. 10% of 20 is <span style="font-weight: bold">2.0</span>. 20-2=<span style="font-weight: bold">18MOA</span>.

Similarly, lets assume we have a 17MOA hold and your partner wants mils. 17moa/4=<span style="font-weight: bold">4.3</span>. 10% of 4.3 is <span style="font-weight: bold">.4</span>. 4.3+.4=<span style="font-weight: bold">4.7mils</span>.

 

[427Cobra]

Re: Universal Language for MIL/MIL vs MOA/MOA

MILs are universal across the planet, every single scope maker makes a MilDot based scope and every military sniper on the planet uses a MRAD reticle scope, go MRAD!

 

[1911fan]

Re: Universal Language for MIL/MIL vs MOA/MOA

I've used target size as a correction, i.e., "Come left half a target."
Makes more sense than, say, "Come left 3/8 of a mil."


1911fan

 

[Shredder58]

Re: Universal Language for MIL/MIL vs MOA/MOA

I like 1911's suggestion best so far. Use target size as a frame of reference instead of converting on the fly to either MIL or MOA.

I understand all the math, and I have experience shooting Tactical matches. In my experience it is one thing to sit in your easy chair and say just use this or that formula for conversions, but quite another thing to apply those conversions in the heat of the match. Maybe others can do it, but I find that the more simple your system the quicker you can get off accurate shots and minimize errors.

Thanks for the comments and keep them coming if anyone has ideas for what has worked best (or not) for them.

 

[GBTX01]

Re: Universal Language for MIL/MIL vs MOA/MOA

My partner and I give elevation corrections in Mils. However, we give wind corrections as holds...

Hold center, favor left/right (halfway btwn center and outer edge), left edge, any greater holdovers are given in Mils.

Because of the changing winds we always hold for wind rather than dialing the wind into the turrets.

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: Universal Language for MIL/MIL vs MOA/MOA

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1911fan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've used target size as a correction, i.e., "Come left half a target."</div></div>

This is what I suggest if you are working with mixed units of measure.

However I have found it much easier to say 1/4 mil left, 1/2 mil up....etc. when working with mils.

 

[Boomholzer]

Re: Universal Language for MIL/MIL vs MOA/MOA

If you or shooting partner is not getting steel hits, or pasties, or shooting into black foam and have no reference on miss; you may coordinate into a berm. The question is how to coordinate. As an example.

The reference may be lost or change in gross POI and added detail comes into words. Correction should be as important as fixation and location of object at range. If there is one thing mutual, it is where the bullet should go. Common reference without words.

Is correction to board or target? Is it a dark frame on black target? If two people are building a mutual trust, nothing is gained by "up and left of here". "Here" not being the POI. The shot was called and correction should be of where the shot was called.

If you can instantly mentally convert to different reticle I guess it doesn’t matter.

 

[tylerw02]

Re: Universal Language for MIL/MIL vs MOA/MOA

You could figure what power your scope works such that your increments are approximately 1/2 mil and give him calls based on that. Then, you could dial your elevation in and he can give you calls in mils as well. You can correct misses and windage in mils.