• Watch Out for Scammers!

    We've now added a color code for all accounts. Orange accounts are new members, Blue are full members, and Green are Supporters. If you get a message about a sale from an orange account, make sure you pay attention before sending any money!

  • The site has been updated!

    If you notice any issues, please let us know below!

    VIEW THREAD

Rifle Scopes Scope to meet my Criteria

R

RiverRatMatt

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Oct 5, 2012
102
0
Boise, ID
Now that I've got a spotting scope squared away, it is time to start saving for a good rifle scope. I've done a bit of reading on the subject, and here are the features I want:

=Not made in China
=Decent optics (don't have to be great)
=MIL-Dot reticle
=Adjustable Parallax
=FFP
=0.1 MIL clicks
=No BDC

I work in metric, so I am going to use MIL as my standard unit, rather than MOA.

What might work?
 
Re: Scope to meet my Criteria

I would suggest looking at a Nightforce F1 with the MLR reticle. Great scope and you won't be disappointed.
 
Re: Scope to meet my Criteria

your choices are a bit contrdicting... FFP scopes are all high quality.. around $1000 + ... vortex probably the least expensive FFP scope. if you take out the FFP option you can get a Super Sniper to fit that bill.. I have a 10x that is a decent scope.
but its not a nighforce.
 
Re: Scope to meet my Criteria

My price range is as much as it takes to get the features I want :p

I'd like to cap it at $1500 but honestly if the value is there I will save my money longer.

I do want FFP because I'm certain in the future when I'm shooting 1km I will want to have it :p
 
Re: Scope to meet my Criteria

Mil dot is a bit out of date unless shooting at large targets in the opinion of many. GAP mil scale etc provides all of the advantages with more precise holds. Suggest looking at NF.
 
Re: Scope to meet my Criteria

Mils are not metric, MOAs are not inches, stop trying to convert angular measurements to whatever, a Mil is a Mil, an MOA is an MOA, but again Mils are not metric.
 
Re: Scope to meet my Criteria

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mils are not metric, MOAs are not inches, stop trying to convert angular measurements to whatever, a Mil is a Mil, an MOA is an MOA, but again Mils are not metric. </div></div>

I understand that, but MIL is easier for me to work with in metric.

It is very easy to remember that 1mil = 10cm @ 100m, 20cm @ 200m ETC. To me, that jives more with the metric system.
 
Re: Scope to meet my Criteria

Your converting again, .1 mil is just that, or 1/10000 of any unit of measurement on the planet, my point to you is don't convert. I know a Vortex Razor is a little out of your 1500 dollar cap but its a great optic that mets all your specs except MilDot reticle, the EBR 2 and 3 are MRAD reticles, Vortex has an over the top warranty so maybe a used one.
 
Re: Scope to meet my Criteria

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Your converting again, .1 mil is just that, or 1/10000 of any unit of measurement on the planet, my point to you is don't convert. I know a Vortex Razor is a little out of your 1500 dollar cap but its a great optic that mets all your specs except MilDot reticle, the EBR 2 and 3 are MRAD reticles, Vortex has an over the top warranty so maybe a used one. </div></div>

The reason it is nice to convert is I know what 1cm (aka .1mil @ 100m) looks like and can adjust accordingly. It just works right in my head for faster shooting. I like to be able to visualize what 1 MIL or .1 MIL actually equates to easily.
 
Re: Scope to meet my Criteria

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RiverRatMatt</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Your converting again, .1 mil is just that, or 1/10000 of any unit of measurement on the planet, my point to you is don't convert. I know a Vortex Razor is a little out of your 1500 dollar cap but its a great optic that mets all your specs except MilDot reticle, the EBR 2 and 3 are MRAD reticles, Vortex has an over the top warranty so maybe a used one. </div></div>

The reason it is nice to convert is I know what 1cm (aka .1mil @ 100m) looks like and can adjust accordingly. It just works right in my head for faster shooting. I like to be able to visualize what 1 MIL or .1 MIL actually equates to easily. </div></div>

You're better off forgetting that and using the reticle to measure and make your adjustment.
 
Re: Scope to meet my Criteria

I'm a little rusty on html so I'm not sure if this can be done on a website or not, but having a weighted decision matrix where the metrics of each scope, like optical quality, durability, mil/moa,zero stop etc, could be adjusted by fact or member rating averages and the weighting of each category applied by the prospective buyer.This would go a long way towards helping people understand what is best for their needs without having emotional attachments to a certain brand get in the way. For instance, I would have never considered a Bushnell because of the brand recognition from 15 years ago and I was also enamored with the thought of an illuminated reticule. When I put actual numbers on the different qualities it led me to a scope I never even considered early in the search.
 
Re: Scope to meet my Criteria

Matt I'm just trying to help, and not talking down to you at all, things I'm saying will make perfect sense once you have a Mil Mil scope, and have sent rounds downrange, part of the problem is Europeans are lazy too, and because of the math which you correctly stated companies like S&B will sometimes mark there knobs 1cm @ 100m, it must be human nature to assign a hard value to a unit of measurement that has no stated value, I could tell you what my 1000 yard come ups are in Mils, but I have no idea nor do I care what the inches feet centimeters meters drop is, I turn my elevation knob to 8.1ish and send it, if I miss and I do a lot I use my reticle to measure my correction, apply that correction and send another, my second round hits are pretty high.
 
Re: Scope to meet my Criteria

SWFA 5-20 HD has all your features asked for and goes for $1500 of their website or you can find some NIB or slightly used on here for $200-300 less. Excellent optic for the money.
 
Re: Scope to meet my Criteria

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Matt I'm just trying to help, and not talking down to you at all, things I'm saying will make perfect sense once you have a Mil Mil scope, and have sent rounds downrange, part of the problem is Europeans are lazy too, and because of the math which you correctly stated companies like S&B will sometimes mark there knobs 1cm @ 100m, it must be human nature to assign a hard value to a unit of measurement that has no stated value, I could tell you what my 1000 yard come ups are in Mils, but I have no idea nor do I care what the inches feet centimeters meters drop is, I turn my elevation knob to 8.1ish and send it, if I miss and I do a lot I use my reticle to measure my correction, apply that correction and send another, my second round hits are pretty high. </div></div>

I'm sure Matt doesn't get your point which is correct, but once he starts shooting, his initial thoughts will fade and he'll learn to do exactly as you do and become a better shooter in time. I think only a few understand all the math behind MOA and mils, but many become excellent shooters and hit where they aim. Isn't that the point anyway ?
 
Re: Scope to meet my Criteria

As far as scopes on a reasonable budget goes, the Weaver 3-15x comes very close to your requirements.

They can be had for about 750, they are made in Japan and are of very high quality.

The biggest deal breaker I see, is the 1 turn. There are not too many of those, IOR makes several excellent scopes that meet all of your requirements, including 10 mil's per revolution.
There are others, but IOR is the one I am familiar with.

Even so, 1 turn of 10 mils will only get you to around 1000 yards, depending on cartridge, bullet selection and velocity.
 
Re: Scope to meet my Criteria

Thanks for your replies guys, I'll take a look at the SWFA and Weaver scopes you mentioned
smile.gif


Good point about the 1-turn, it isn't really necessary per-se so I'll remove that from my OP.
 
Re: Scope to meet my Criteria

The one feature you left out was zero stop, I will never own another scope without.
 
Re: Scope to meet my Criteria

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mjh</div><div class="ubbcode-body">RiverRatMatt, why do think you need FFP for shooting 1KM? </div></div>

The way I see it, there's no point in having a MIL based reticle if it is only accurate at one magnification.
 
Re: Scope to meet my Criteria

I wouldn't rule out a quality SFP scope such as the NXS 3-15, because foe the most part at longer distances you are going to have her cranked to 15 anyways, some of the higher power variables SFP is a distinct disadvantage but in lower powered variables is not so much.
 
Re: Scope to meet my Criteria

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RiverRatMatt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I work in metric, so I am going to use MIL as my standard unit, rather than MOA.
</div></div>

What does metric have to do with milrads and MOA?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RiverRatMatt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It is very easy to remember that 1mil = 10cm @ 100m, 20cm @ 200m ETC. To me, that jives more with the metric system. </div></div>

Why would you need to convert? Converting serves what purpose? You make adjustments on linear amounts somehow? So you spot and say, "I missed by .8 mils, that's 32 cm, now what is 32 cm in mils so I can make a correction?"
 
Re: Scope to meet my Criteria

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">part of the problem is Europeans are lazy too, and because of the math which you correctly stated companies like S&B will sometimes mark there knobs 1cm @ 100m </div></div>

I believe they mark their CW scopes this way and their CCW scopes are marked mRad. This is much like the companies here mark 1/4"@100. I suppose this appeals to casual shooters that zero at 100 yards/meters and shoot one round downrange after that during hunting. I suppose even Bender has to market to the lowest common denominator.
 
Re: Scope to meet my Criteria

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tylerw02</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RiverRatMatt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I work in metric, so I am going to use MIL as my standard unit, rather than MOA.
</div></div>

What does metric have to do with milrads and MOA?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RiverRatMatt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It is very easy to remember that 1mil = 10cm @ 100m, 20cm @ 200m ETC. To me, that jives more with the metric system. </div></div>

Why would you need to convert? Converting serves what purpose? You make adjustments on linear amounts somehow? So you spot and say, "I missed by .8 mils, that's 32 cm, now what is 32 cm in mils so I can make a correction?" </div></div>

It'd be handy for accurately measuring objects at distance and for hold-over.
 
Re: Scope to meet my Criteria

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RiverRatMatt</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tylerw02</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RiverRatMatt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I work in metric, so I am going to use MIL as my standard unit, rather than MOA.
</div></div>

What does metric have to do with milrads and MOA?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RiverRatMatt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It is very easy to remember that 1mil = 10cm @ 100m, 20cm @ 200m ETC. To me, that jives more with the metric system. </div></div>

Why would you need to convert? Converting serves what purpose? You make adjustments on linear amounts somehow? So you spot and say, "I missed by .8 mils, that's 32 cm, now what is 32 cm in mils so I can make a correction?" </div></div>

It'd be handy for accurately measuring objects at distance and for hold-over. </div></div>

You're kinda missing the point of a FFP scope, whether it be MOA or Mil based.
 
Re: Scope to meet my Criteria

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: the_fng</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RiverRatMatt</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tylerw02</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RiverRatMatt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I work in metric, so I am going to use MIL as my standard unit, rather than MOA.
</div></div>

What does metric have to do with milrads and MOA?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RiverRatMatt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It is very easy to remember that 1mil = 10cm @ 100m, 20cm @ 200m ETC. To me, that jives more with the metric system. </div></div>

Why would you need to convert? Converting serves what purpose? You make adjustments on linear amounts somehow? So you spot and say, "I missed by .8 mils, that's 32 cm, now what is 32 cm in mils so I can make a correction?" </div></div>

It'd be handy for accurately measuring objects at distance and for hold-over. </div></div>

You're kinda missing the point of a FFP scope, whether it be MOA or Mil based. </div></div>

That's all I could think up at 0300 ]:
 
Re: Scope to meet my Criteria

Why would you measure objects at range? That's backwards thinking. You measure objects of known size WITH your reticle to determine range....the way you're thinking you're wanting to measure an object of unknown size at a known range because you perceive it to be "easier to convert". What good does that do the shooter?

You'll find you'll never use your reticle to range unless shooting in a match that requires it. Most people have range finders these days. The advantage of a FFP reticle is that you can use it for holds at any power. You miss, you see how far you miss within your reticle....which hopefully matches the increments your data is in.

You really need to step back, forget what you think you know, and take a new approach. It will work to your advantage.
 
Re: Scope to meet my Criteria

I use my 10 yard focus, FFP, high mag scope for fine carpentry work. I set up exactly 10 yards from the lumber and use the reticle for measuring my cuts. I just yell at my son to "move the pencil over .3 mils to the left -- no! not your left, my left." It works well.


FFP is insanely useful for followup shots when the turrets match the reticle. A scope would have to be really special - like seeing into the middle of next week special - before I ever bought another one that didn't have a matching turret/reticle system.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

A
Nightforce scope upgrade - Worth it???
Replies
37
Views
3K
346ci
346ci
H
Rifle Scopes Tract TORIC UHD Hunting Rifle Scope Review
Replies
16
Views
8K
Hondo64d
H
tactic-als
Rifle Scopes Meopta Optika6 -Hands On....Good/Bad?
Replies
15
Views
7K
JMcQ
J
K
10x scopes
Replies
30
Views
2K
koshkin
koshkin
gr8fuldoug
Rifle Scopes Winners Chosen - Next Drawing is July 6th for Leica Amplus Riflescopes
Replies
11
Views
1K
gr8fuldoug
gr8fuldoug
Top Bottom
Back