Loading cheap rounds for 223 worth it?

[timelinex]

So I made a good load for my Daniel Defense AR15 and now I want to make a plinking load. This is for the times that I use it at close distances in 'tactical' type scenarios. I was planning on using surplus everything to keep costs down, but after calculating actual costs, I'm not even sure if its worth it!

Using the cheapest components I found, I calculated about 17 cents a round, not including the brass. I paid about 9 cents per piece for bulk processed 1x LC 223 brass. After that its 26 cents a round! I realize that If I consider that I will reuse it, that will probably push it closer to 20 cents a round. Even with minimal processing, I will still have to wash, size and prime all the pieces of brass to resuse them, which takes time.

Looking online, wolf ammo can be bought for under 25 cents a round!! Am I missing something?

Unless you really enjoy reloading for the sake of reloading, is it even worth reloading 223 to try and save $$ on plinking rounds?!

 

[*greenhorn*]

Re: Lodaing cheap rounds for 223 worth it?

i just buy PMC in 1k for 389.99 at local gun shop. thats .38 a shot i realize if i reloaded it i could save 60-80 bucks but to prep and reload its not worth it...

but if i had a RCBS trim mate reloading station i would reload because it cuts the time way down!!!

these 2 items would make reloading 223 worth my wild..but its 650.00 ill just buy the PMC


https://shop.rcbs.com/WebConnect/MainSer...p;route=C11J037

https://shop.rcbs.com/WebConnect/MainSer...p;route=C07J028

 

[gmz71]

Re: Lodaing cheap rounds for 223 worth it?

I too buy the PMC for plinking, but have found that the brass was better than I was anticipating. I am reloading (small base) it at least 2 times, mostly 3, before I have to trim. I havent bought a factory hunting round in years, because of this. IMO, if you're buying the PMC for plinking, might as well spend $$ on some powder, bullets and primers and make use of the decent brass.

 

[Niles Coyote]

Re: Lodaing cheap rounds for 223 worth it?

IMO, general purpose spray and pray ammo, no. Now if you are into shooting the tightest groups at 100y or varmint ammo, yes.

 

[turbo54]

Re: Lodaing cheap rounds for 223 worth it?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Niles Coyote</div><div class="ubbcode-body">IMO, general purpose spray and pray ammo, no. Now if you are into shooting the tightest groups at 100y or varmint ammo, yes. </div></div>

Agreed.

I've found 223 on the internet for ~$325 per 1k.

For plain shooting, it's just not worth messing with loading.

A lot of 223 rifles will actually group really well with this cheap ammo.

 

[Genius.]

Re: Lodaing cheap rounds for 223 worth it?

I do, and it is worth it to me.

I've tried wolf and bear stuff which is cheap, and I have had multiple FTF's. when I go to the range I like my gun to go bang.

But I'm also not shooting hundreds upon hundreds of rounds at a time either.

 

[timelinex]

Re: Lodaing cheap rounds for 223 worth it?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cowboy1978</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i just buy PMC in 1k for 389.99 at local gun shop. thats .38 a shot i realize if i reloaded it i could save 60-80 bucks but to prep and reload its not worth it...

but if i had a RCBS trim mate reloading station i would reload because it cuts the time way down!!!

these 2 items would make reloading 223 worth my wild..but its 650.00 ill just buy the PMC


https://shop.rcbs.com/WebConnect/MainSer...p;route=C11J037

https://shop.rcbs.com/WebConnect/MainSer...p;route=C07J028 </div></div>

I am actually receiving my chargemaster tmrw.... and I dont have a prep center, but for bulk ammo there really isn't any prep that needs to happen. Maybe after 2 firings you might need to trim I suppose. I have found all my chambers are super long though. I haven't tested the ar's chamber, but my 308m and 338 are atleast .03" longer than SAAMI maximum trim length.

Either way though, I'm saying though that with the price of surplus components as high as they are right now, it doesn't even seem worth it period!

Are you guys that are reloading it yourself, finding the surplus stuff for extraordinary deals?

 

[gunsnjeeps]

Re: Lodaing cheap rounds for 223 worth it?

I've reloaded PMC brass that I pick up on the range. I have probably picked up 500 or 600 cases through over a season of high power.

Reloading with 77 grain SMK's runs me 33 cents a round, I use BHA brass for these from issued ammo.

Using Mid South 55 Grain HP's I load the picked up PMC's for 22 cents a round. I've also loaded them in Lake City brass. I could probably cut this price a little if I looked for cheaper powder.

 

[Deadshot2]

Re: Loading cheap rounds for 223 worth it?

Let's just say that reloading "cheap" ammo for my AR's has paid for a Dillon XL650 in just a short year. that was 5 years ago. My cost per round is $0.16 ea. At that cost, the break even on a $1200 investment was 7500 rounds. Hit that mark in month 12 of my first year. Better yet, since I have shot that amount each year since them I'm still saving money.

Even better news, I don't have to shoot crap ammo. I use good powder, good primers, and good bullets. Don't have near the problems as those I come across that shoot Wolf steel case, or some of the questionable "surplus" out there.

For those that can't see the benefit, I'm happy to pick up the brass you leave behind. Haven't had to buy a piece of brass for close to 10 years now

 

[timelinex]

Re: Loading cheap rounds for 223 worth it?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Deadshot2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Let's just say that reloading "cheap" ammo for my AR's has paid for a Dillon XL650 in just a short year. that was 5 years ago. My cost per round is $0.16 ea. At that cost, the break even on a $1200 investment was 7500 rounds. Hit that mark in month 12 of my first year. Better yet, since I have shot that amount each year since them I'm still saving money.

Even better news, I don't have to shoot crap ammo. I use good powder, good primers, and good bullets. Don't have near the problems as those I come across that shoot Wolf steel case, or some of the questionable "surplus" out there.

For those that can't see the benefit, I'm happy to pick up the brass you leave behind. Haven't had to buy a piece of brass for close to 10 years now

</div></div>

Where are you buying 'good' components that equal 16 cents a round? Or are you implying surplus components?

 

[1Sg (ret)]

Re: Loading cheap rounds for 223 worth it?

I have found when i hit what i am shooting at i shoot less ammo.That being said if you are just blasting it dont matter.I have been loading all my ammo for 25 yrs.The cost of the loading equipment has long been gone.The ammo i load is better than i can buy.I have bought surplus pulled bullets and powder for up close tactical matches.Some people make alot more money than i do and just buy ammo.If you are young buy the loading kit and load your ammo unless you time is to valuable.I use my loading time as therapy.

 

[ddavis]

Re: Loading cheap rounds for 223 worth it?

I reload for .223 because it's the only way I can afford to shoot. I use Hornady 55 FMJ-BT bullets. They can be found for about $10/100 on sale pretty regularly. I really don't even worry about the price of powder and primers. I buy 8 lb jugs of TAC and 5000 primers when I need them. Brass is free. I pick it up at the local carbine matches. I reload on a Dillon 550. I highly recommend the Lee Pro Auto Disk powder measure. Unlike traditional "screw" type adjustable dispensers (Dillon) the Lee can never get out of adjustment.

The thing I HATE about reloading .223 is crimped primer pockets. You must resize the cases, then clean the lube off, then run each individual case through the Dillon Super Swager, then run them all through the 550 again for primers/powder/bullets. It is a slow and tedious process.

I had my first malfunction at the last carbine match due to reloading. A primer fell out of the case, causing a failure to fire. Luckily it didn't end up in the trigger and jam up the rifle. That particular piece of brass may have been fired 1x or 20x, I will never know.

 

[50APIT]

Re: Loading cheap rounds for 223 worth it?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: timelinex</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Where are you buying 'good' components that equal 16 cents a round? Or are you implying surplus components? </div></div>

I agree that if you buy components at the retail level in smaller quantities for blasting ammo, your reloading costs will approach or even exceed that of the steel-cased russian ammo.

The one thing I have found out about reloading is that the buy cheap/stack deep mantra definitely applies. I stock up and make a bulk order whenever I find a good deal on components. That is especially important when buying powder & primers due to the hazmat fee.

Getting your C&R FFL will allow you to get dealer accounts at a lot of places, with Grafs and Brownells being the two I use the most.

Surplus components are also usually a good deal when they come up. Case in point were those 175 gr SMK pulls that were available over the summer, I found a seller (from a thread in the reloading section here) that had them for only $.02 more each than standard 150 FMJ bullets and they shoot sub-moa.

 

[MtnCreek]

Re: Loading cheap rounds for 223 worth it?

If you can keep up w/ your brass, it shouldn't run more than $0.01 / loaded rd over the life of 5.56 grass. Buying in Large quantities, ~ $0.08 for Horn 55gr, ~ $0.075 for powder and ~ $0.03 for primer. I'm around $0.20 / rd all in.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have found when i hit what i am shooting at i shoot less ammo.</div></div>
The other day I couldn't hit crap w/ an AR. I started shooing faster. Like THAT was going to help....

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Loading cheap rounds for 223 worth it?

I like trying ideas from outside the box.

The Wolf Steelcase 55gr FMJ is boxer primed. Will look into repriming and reloading a few cases. My main concern is whether or not the fired cases have any tendency toward internal corrosion after firing. I have the Dillon Swage onhand in case the primers are crimped.

Will also try reversing the 55gr FMJ's in the case. The base of the (lockbase-style) bullet shows an exposed lead core, which might give it interesting expansion characteristics. Will test a few for function and accuracy, then compare the frontward vs backward projos on water jugs to see how/if they perform differently on impact.

I'm thinking that with the imminent arrival of the feral hogs to our area, such a modification could have some useful application. The new Mossberg MVP Predator in the stable could have some interesting potential if these rounds work out.

My shooting regimen has been way too serious for the past couple of years, mostly load testing and comp. I need get out and do some plinking/blasting. I picked up a few of those self healing spinner targets for the G-Kids to practice on with their rimfires; might as well use 'em myself, too.

Greg

 

[milo 2.0]

Re: Loading cheap rounds for 223 worth it?

To me, buying loaded ammo wouldn't be feasible.
At $325.00 per K, that's $.33 a round, it's reasonable if you pick the brass to reload it.
My last rounds cost under $.23
I bought a 4600 count box of Hornady 68 HPBT, $100.00/K
8 lb Win 748 @ $140.00, so $17.50 x 3.57= $62.47
CCI small mags, $32.00
Scharch military brass depreciated over 6 loadings at $135.00 total= $22.50
Total $216.97
Even here I'm at a $100.00 savings.
This was my cost when I bought the stuff, not sure about replacement costs.
Most likely I'll have to trim the brass once, uniform the primer pocket once, I don't clean the pockets between firings, so it is not that much work. Once the brass work is done, it is pretty easy to throw and seat 250rds in 30-40 minutes in an evening. It doesn't take all that long to load up 5000 rds, plus I have a progressive if I care to use it.

After spending 3 to 4K on all this reloading gear, I will try save money anywhere I can, if it means a little more elbow grease, so be it.
If you shoot 6k rds a year, that is roughly a $630.00 savings.
That just boought 2 Atlas bipods and a scope level!
And you're not shooting FMJ bullets at someones steel targets either.

 

[milo 2.0]

Re: Loading cheap rounds for 223 worth it?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MtnCreek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The other day I couldn't hit crap w/ an AR. I started shooing faster. Like THAT was going to help....

</div></div>

I sure hope you don't believe you've monopolized this trait, by any means.

 

[RyanMcIntyre]

Re: Loading cheap rounds for 223 worth it?

I reloaded plinking ammo for a while because I got all my brass for nothing, so the actual cash savings was quite good. As well, it served to help me learn how to reload with a large margin for error since my tolerances and standards were still quite loose. I was also shooting it through guns where accuracy was not a prime concern.

Now that I care more about my reloads, my standards for consistency and accuracy have risen, my time is more valuable, and I still squeeze each penny as thin as paper, I do not see the value in reloading my plinking ammo when used in a "fun" gun. As well, I'm OCD so I go berzerk when I lose a case or something. For me it's easier and just as cheap now (especially if you want to start calculating what your time is worth) to buy my plinking ammo and save as much brass as I can for other projects.

If it wasn't for the price of brass, reloading would have few cost benefits. And there's a saying, "Do you have more time than money or more money than time?"

 

[Deadshot2]

Re: Loading cheap rounds for 223 worth it?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: timelinex</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Where are you buying 'good' components that equal 16 cents a round? Or are you implying surplus components? </div></div>

I don't buy my powder one pound at a time or bullets by the box/bag of 100. For primers I've found the Wolf/Tula to be every bit as good, maybe even better, than the CCI "Military Primers" so I use their .223 primer.

I purchase "hazmat" components in quantities large enough to <span style="text-decoration: underline">completely</span> fill the container. I also take advantage of promotions like the one that Powder valley has going through today where they pay the hazmat fee on 32# of powder.

Bullets come from Montana Gold in case lots.

Powder at $132.50 per 8# Jug
Primers at $20.50 per thousand
And bullets at $295 per case of 3500.

I just ordered another "shipment" yesterday from Powder Valley and Montana Gold. The freight on my Powder Valley Hazmat box amounted to a whopping $0.433/lb. and the Montana Gold Bullets ship for no extra charge.

When you enter all those numbers into the Handloads.com "cost calculator it comes out at exactly $0.165/per round, using "free brass".

I make orders like this every time my "supply" gets low. Yesterday's order was for 32# of powder, 12,000 primers, and over 100# of bullets. The two cases I ordered from Montana Gold will be just under 100# alone and I ordered another 2100 .30 cal bullets from Powder Valley.

I saved $260 on powder alone based on local prices. Another $120 on primer vs the local prices. But best of all, I saved another $175 on local Sales Tax that based on where I live would just go to the local Indian Tribe as the Cabela's is located on their Reservation. Total savings on the product that is now on it's way to me is around $550 which is about what the average cost of 1500 rounds of "good deal" factory ammo.

A side benefit, all the product will be delivered right to my door, no money wasted on gasoline trying to chase better deals from Dealers 50 miles away.

Now, all I have to do is dust off the XL-650, make a pot of Tea, and retire to the reloading room for a day.

I quit long ago just buying a pound of of powder here and a bag of bulk bullets there. Chasing around to Gun Shows looking for "deals" that were far and few between, wasting not only gas but having to pay admission to.

I don't spend a dime more in a year by buying in bulk like this. Another bonus, when everyone hollers "There's a shortage", I check my 'stash' and say "What shortage"

 

[JoeBUtah]

Re: Loading cheap rounds for 223 worth it?

If my calculations are correct, I'm at about $00.18 per round; I use range brass, or whatever I pick up when we have a get together in the desert; get about 300 rnds per 1lb of A2230, and my last 1k of bullets cost $88.00; Winchester SRP.

I haven't had a factory bullet in my AR in two years or so; yes, it's worth it to me.

Last weekend me and my buddies were out shooting, and one of them had steel cased Wolf or Tula. His ejector kept tearing off a chunk of the case rim, and he spent a lot of time dicking around pushing cases out of his rifle. Now, that is NOT worth it to me....

 

[gunnut223]

Re: Loading cheap rounds for 223 worth it?

Im at about $0.18 a rd too. Thats with shipping included(buying brass, gas to go to gunshop for powder and primers) but all my costs get offset because i reload 15 different calibers, so everything is in bulk at rock bottom prices for me.

 

[rg1911]

Re: Loading cheap rounds for 223 worth it?

I've been reloading .223 on my Dillon 650 for so long that I no longer keep track of the savings. I do buy in bulk, especially if I spot a good sale.

I have two loads, both using Winchester brass: one using the Hornady 60-grain V-Max for varmint hunting, and one using the Sierra 77-grain MK for matches. Because I shoot a lot of it, the Hornady gets loaded on the Dillon and will consistently group sub-MOA at 425 yards. (My AR does have a custom Mark Chanlynn barrel, which helps. I now have right at 3000 rounds through it.)

Because I don't shoot as much of it, I reload the Sierras on my Rock Chucker.

I've also lost track of how often I've reloaded the WW brass, but I've been using the same cases for 15+ years and know that many have been reloaded more than 7 times. I've never had to trim. When I feel a primer pocket getting loose, I mark the case and dispose of it after shooting.

Here's why I think it's worth while to reload even "plinking" rounds. A couple weeks ago at the range, I had just fired a series of 5 5-shot groups, all MOA or sub-MOA, to test the tracking of a repaired scope. I happened to have some inexpensive commercial ammo and some military green-tip with me, so I sent them downrange, too. The "groups" wouldn't have made good shotgun patterns as they were on the order of 12 inches; possibly more. When they're that bad, I don't bother to get out a micrometer.

So, if you buy cheap ammo, did you miss because of the ammo or because of an error you made? When I miss, I know it's because of an error on my part. Cuts down on the variables.

As always, YMMV.

Cheers,
Richard

 

[Deadshot2]

Re: Loading cheap rounds for 223 worth it?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RG1911</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Here's why I think it's worth while to reload even "plinking" rounds.



Cheers,
Richard
</div></div>

I'm with you. Plinking is just a less formal form of practice. If one "plinks" with the attitude of "oh what the hell, I'm only plinkin" then that's when the bad habits work their way in.