Does Schmidt and Bender still offer the 5-25 PMII with the Gen 2 XR reticle? Looked at Europtic but didn't see it listed.
Rifle Scopes S&B 5-25 PMII Gen 2 XR?
- Thread starter Gray
- Start date
Re: S&B 5-25 PMII Gen 2 XR?
You might call EuroOptic.
The S&B website is NOT up to date.
When EuroOptic had PMII's with Horus H59 reticles in hand four months ago, the S&B website did not show that option—and <span style="font-style: italic">still</span> do not show that option:
http://www.schmidtundbender.de/en/products/police-and-military-forces/5-25x56-pm-iilp.html
You might call EuroOptic.
The S&B website is NOT up to date.
When EuroOptic had PMII's with Horus H59 reticles in hand four months ago, the S&B website did not show that option—and <span style="font-style: italic">still</span> do not show that option:
http://www.schmidtundbender.de/en/products/police-and-military-forces/5-25x56-pm-iilp.html
Re: S&B 5-25 PMII Gen 2 XR?
No they don't. Your best bet is to probably wait for one to pop up on here.
No they don't. Your best bet is to probably wait for one to pop up on here.
Re: S&B 5-25 PMII Gen 2 XR?
Just curious, but is this the same reticle as the S&B PMII Gen 2 XR?
http://premierreticles.com/pdfs/2009-5-25xxGen2XR.pdf
Just curious, but is this the same reticle as the S&B PMII Gen 2 XR?
http://premierreticles.com/pdfs/2009-5-25xxGen2XR.pdf
Re: S&B 5-25 PMII Gen 2 XR?
Yes.
Yes.
Re: S&B 5-25 PMII Gen 2 XR?
Been looking for one also, but no luck...
Been looking for one also, but no luck...
Re: S&B 5-25 PMII Gen 2 XR?
Damn, after seeing one this weekend I'm dead set on it, guess ill have to look around. Thanks for the input guys!
Damn, after seeing one this weekend I'm dead set on it, guess ill have to look around. Thanks for the input guys!
Re: S&B 5-25 PMII Gen 2 XR?
<span style="text-decoration: line-through">For those of you who are on the market for a PMII - Gen II XR...
There are those that were produced by S&B and then there are those that were retrofitted by Premier.
If you do find one you are interested in, clarify which of the two it is, as it has an effect on what you should be paying.
(Either GenII XR listed on the box it came in or maybe a serial number and a call to S&B?)
I'm not sure that one having been retrofitted by Premier carries the same manufacturers warranty as one produced by S&B either...
Not that I've had any problems out of mine, which was retrofitted by Premier.
Just food for thought!</span>
See Below
<span style="text-decoration: line-through">For those of you who are on the market for a PMII - Gen II XR...
There are those that were produced by S&B and then there are those that were retrofitted by Premier.
If you do find one you are interested in, clarify which of the two it is, as it has an effect on what you should be paying.
(Either GenII XR listed on the box it came in or maybe a serial number and a call to S&B?)
I'm not sure that one having been retrofitted by Premier carries the same manufacturers warranty as one produced by S&B either...
Not that I've had any problems out of mine, which was retrofitted by Premier.
Just food for thought!</span>
See Below
Re: S&B 5-25 PMII Gen 2 XR?
Premier built 5-25's with Gen II XR's in them at their facility in Winchester, in addition to retrofitting customer scopes that were sent in. S&B in Germany also built 5-25's with Gen II XR's from what they had remaining after the split between PR and S&B. The warranty is still good whether the S&B was built by PR in Winchester or S&B in Germany.
Premier built 5-25's with Gen II XR's in them at their facility in Winchester, in addition to retrofitting customer scopes that were sent in. S&B in Germany also built 5-25's with Gen II XR's from what they had remaining after the split between PR and S&B. The warranty is still good whether the S&B was built by PR in Winchester or S&B in Germany.
Re: S&B 5-25 PMII Gen 2 XR?
Sorry but I don't know why anyone would want that reticle. Had one in a Premier 5-25 and the tiny dots don't draw the eye like the half mil hash marks. I have talked to more than one person who had made mil hold mistakes with it. Also I found the lines very thin and tough to see.
Sorry but I don't know why anyone would want that reticle. Had one in a Premier 5-25 and the tiny dots don't draw the eye like the half mil hash marks. I have talked to more than one person who had made mil hold mistakes with it. Also I found the lines very thin and tough to see.
Re: S&B 5-25 PMII Gen 2 XR?
I will second not liking the reticle.
I will second not liking the reticle.
Re: S&B 5-25 PMII Gen 2 XR?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sorry but I don't know why anyone would want that reticle. Had one in a Premier 5-25 and the tiny dots don't draw the eye like the half mil hash marks. I have talked to more than one person who had made mil hold mistakes with it. Also I found the lines very thin and tough to see. </div></div>
Absolutely agree.
Why go against the world and almost every reticle in existence and make the <span style="font-size: 20pt">SMALLER value bigger (0,5 MIL hashmarks)</span> and the <span style="font-size: 8pt">larger value smaller (1 MIL dots). </span>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sorry but I don't know why anyone would want that reticle. Had one in a Premier 5-25 and the tiny dots don't draw the eye like the half mil hash marks. I have talked to more than one person who had made mil hold mistakes with it. Also I found the lines very thin and tough to see. </div></div>
Absolutely agree.
Why go against the world and almost every reticle in existence and make the <span style="font-size: 20pt">SMALLER value bigger (0,5 MIL hashmarks)</span> and the <span style="font-size: 8pt">larger value smaller (1 MIL dots). </span>
Re: S&B 5-25 PMII Gen 2 XR?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Special Delivery</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Does Schmidt and Bender still offer the 5-25 PMII with the Gen 2 XR reticle? Looked at Europtic but didn't see it listed. </div></div>
As <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">bward</span></span> stated, Schmidt & Bender no longer offers the Gen 2 XR as an option. This is due to the rift between Schmidt & Bender and Premier Reticles that <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Trigger Monkey</span></span> alluded to, and which developed several years ago. The rift has caused the pool of existing Gen 2 XR-equipped PMIIs' to become prized and highly sought-after scopes (also commanding a price premium).
I don't know if Alex (at <span style="font-style: italic">EuroOptic</span>) has any more Gen XR-equipped PMIIs' left - I know he had some 5-25X[56] Gen 2 XR CW (Clockwise turrets) on consignment for a while, but I'm pretty he sold the last two he had ($3,900.00+ each). They were listed for a couple of years or so (S & B "List" on PMII 5-25X[56] LP/DTs' was still $3,199.00) and no one would touch them. But as scopes prices have increased, the price differential between the readily-available reticles and the Gen 2 XR reticle has decreased. The gentleman who bought the last two 5-25X[56] Gen 2 XR needed them for builds in progress. As <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Nukes</span></span> said you can call, or email Alex just to be sure he doesn't have any more but if I were you I wouldn't hold my breath.
Also, <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Rob01</span></span>, <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">bward</span></span>, and <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">THLR</span></span> have said they don't like the Gen 2 XR. Since you've seen it and like it, if you think that it will work for you I wouldn't let that discourage you. While the dots representing MILs are small (0.1 MIL/ 1/10th MIL) and harder to see than the 1/2 MIL hashes I never confuse the two because I know that a dot represents a MIL. And as far as the fine lines go, depending upon the type of shooting one does the fine lines may or may not appeal to that shooter. I like them because they allow an extremely precise POA (and POI when I'm doing everything right).
Keith
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Special Delivery</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Does Schmidt and Bender still offer the 5-25 PMII with the Gen 2 XR reticle? Looked at Europtic but didn't see it listed. </div></div>
As <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">bward</span></span> stated, Schmidt & Bender no longer offers the Gen 2 XR as an option. This is due to the rift between Schmidt & Bender and Premier Reticles that <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Trigger Monkey</span></span> alluded to, and which developed several years ago. The rift has caused the pool of existing Gen 2 XR-equipped PMIIs' to become prized and highly sought-after scopes (also commanding a price premium).
I don't know if Alex (at <span style="font-style: italic">EuroOptic</span>) has any more Gen XR-equipped PMIIs' left - I know he had some 5-25X[56] Gen 2 XR CW (Clockwise turrets) on consignment for a while, but I'm pretty he sold the last two he had ($3,900.00+ each). They were listed for a couple of years or so (S & B "List" on PMII 5-25X[56] LP/DTs' was still $3,199.00) and no one would touch them. But as scopes prices have increased, the price differential between the readily-available reticles and the Gen 2 XR reticle has decreased. The gentleman who bought the last two 5-25X[56] Gen 2 XR needed them for builds in progress. As <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Nukes</span></span> said you can call, or email Alex just to be sure he doesn't have any more but if I were you I wouldn't hold my breath.
Also, <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Rob01</span></span>, <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">bward</span></span>, and <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">THLR</span></span> have said they don't like the Gen 2 XR. Since you've seen it and like it, if you think that it will work for you I wouldn't let that discourage you. While the dots representing MILs are small (0.1 MIL/ 1/10th MIL) and harder to see than the 1/2 MIL hashes I never confuse the two because I know that a dot represents a MIL. And as far as the fine lines go, depending upon the type of shooting one does the fine lines may or may not appeal to that shooter. I like them because they allow an extremely precise POA (and POI when I'm doing everything right).
Keith
Re: S&B 5-25 PMII Gen 2 XR?
Talked to Alex yesterday, going to get 5-25 S&B H2CMR and not looking back!!
Talked to Alex yesterday, going to get 5-25 S&B H2CMR and not looking back!!
Re: S&B 5-25 PMII Gen 2 XR?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sorry but I don't know why anyone would want that reticle. Had one in a Premier 5-25 and the tiny dots don't draw the eye like the half mil hash marks. I have talked to more than one person who had made mil hold mistakes with it. Also I found the lines very thin and tough to see. </div></div>
Can you clarify your thinking on this? Elsewhere you have posted that you like the much more complex H2CMR reticle with not only different marks vertically & horizontally but with different spacing of marks vertically & horizontally.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sorry but I don't know why anyone would want that reticle. Had one in a Premier 5-25 and the tiny dots don't draw the eye like the half mil hash marks. I have talked to more than one person who had made mil hold mistakes with it. Also I found the lines very thin and tough to see. </div></div>
Can you clarify your thinking on this? Elsewhere you have posted that you like the much more complex H2CMR reticle with not only different marks vertically & horizontally but with different spacing of marks vertically & horizontally.
Re: S&B 5-25 PMII Gen 2 XR?
I love the GenII-XR...
The only thing I wish it had was windage substension at 3, 5 & 7 Mils.
I love the GenII-XR...
The only thing I wish it had was windage substension at 3, 5 & 7 Mils.
Re: S&B 5-25 PMII Gen 2 XR?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YAOG</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sorry but I don't know why anyone would want that reticle. Had one in a Premier 5-25 and the tiny dots don't draw the eye like the half mil hash marks. I have talked to more than one person who had made mil hold mistakes with it. Also I found the lines very thin and tough to see. </div></div>
Can you clarify your thinking on this? Elsewhere you have posted that you like the much more complex H2CMR reticle with not only different marks vertically & horizontally but with different spacing of marks vertically & horizontally.
</div></div>
The H2CMR isn't more complex. It's actually an easy reticle to use. The .2 mil hollow dots draw the eye and you know easily where the 1 mil marks are. The lines are also a good width so they don't blend into background.
The marks between them are also easy as the windage is .2 mil and the .5 mil marks on the vertical are easy to use. The .1 mil marks between 2 and 3 mils aid in ranging but don't get in the way for holds and they actually made it easier not to get confued by making the .5 mil mark in that area a little larger. But again even though it's larger the larger dots still allow you to know where the mil marks are.
At first it looks difficult but it's not. I have been using it over a year now and it's never given me any problems and I have never mistaken the .5 mil marks for mil marks are some have with the Gen II XR. The original Gen II reticle was a very good reticle and they should have left the Gen II XR like it but adding the Christmas tree.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YAOG</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sorry but I don't know why anyone would want that reticle. Had one in a Premier 5-25 and the tiny dots don't draw the eye like the half mil hash marks. I have talked to more than one person who had made mil hold mistakes with it. Also I found the lines very thin and tough to see. </div></div>
Can you clarify your thinking on this? Elsewhere you have posted that you like the much more complex H2CMR reticle with not only different marks vertically & horizontally but with different spacing of marks vertically & horizontally.
</div></div>
The H2CMR isn't more complex. It's actually an easy reticle to use. The .2 mil hollow dots draw the eye and you know easily where the 1 mil marks are. The lines are also a good width so they don't blend into background.
The marks between them are also easy as the windage is .2 mil and the .5 mil marks on the vertical are easy to use. The .1 mil marks between 2 and 3 mils aid in ranging but don't get in the way for holds and they actually made it easier not to get confued by making the .5 mil mark in that area a little larger. But again even though it's larger the larger dots still allow you to know where the mil marks are.
At first it looks difficult but it's not. I have been using it over a year now and it's never given me any problems and I have never mistaken the .5 mil marks for mil marks are some have with the Gen II XR. The original Gen II reticle was a very good reticle and they should have left the Gen II XR like it but adding the Christmas tree.
Re: S&B 5-25 PMII Gen 2 XR?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: THLR</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sorry but I don't know why anyone would want that reticle. Had one in a Premier 5-25 and the tiny dots don't draw the eye like the half mil hash marks. I have talked to more than one person who had made mil hold mistakes with it. Also I found the lines very thin and tough to see. </div></div>
Absolutely agree.
Why go against the world and almost every reticle in existence and make the <span style="font-size: 20pt">SMALLER value bigger (0,5 MIL hashmarks)</span> and the <span style="font-size: 8pt">larger value smaller (1 MIL dots). </span>
</div></div>
Criticism on target (pun intended). 0.5mil larger than 1.0 mil? Upside down.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: THLR</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sorry but I don't know why anyone would want that reticle. Had one in a Premier 5-25 and the tiny dots don't draw the eye like the half mil hash marks. I have talked to more than one person who had made mil hold mistakes with it. Also I found the lines very thin and tough to see. </div></div>
Absolutely agree.
Why go against the world and almost every reticle in existence and make the <span style="font-size: 20pt">SMALLER value bigger (0,5 MIL hashmarks)</span> and the <span style="font-size: 8pt">larger value smaller (1 MIL dots). </span>
</div></div>
Criticism on target (pun intended). 0.5mil larger than 1.0 mil? Upside down.
Similar threads
