Berger 185 LRBT or 185 Hybrid

[l115a3]

Last week I have a chance for first test both bullet @ 800 yards.

I don't have a time for ladder test. So just load both of them with the same detail;

Lapua Brass
CCI BR-2
41.0 of Varget
COAL 2.810

Berger recommend their quick guide load with COAL 2.810
Minimum 37.5 of Varget with MV 2,306 fps.
Maximum 41.6 of Varget with MV 2,535 fps. (Ratio with case 101.6 %)

I design to load with 41.0 grains of Varget and expected MV around 2,500 fps.


I shoot steel plate (8" Diameter) at 800 yards with my LB Tactical Recon Bolt Rifle in .308 win (24" barrel with 1:10 tw). Both bullets still capable to hit all 10 shots each within 8" steel plate. (1 MOA)

 

[l115a3]

Re: Berger 185 LRBT or 185 Hybrid

The test show that POI of 185 LRBT was lower than 185 Hybrid around 12" and I can feel the less recoil with 185 Hybrid.



This just my roughly test with steel plate at 800
Yards. Next week I plan to have a ladder test with .5 grain increase to 44.0 grain or stop When notice a pressure sign to find the accuracy load for them.

 

[l115a3]

Re: Berger 185 LRBT or 185 Hybrid

The main problem for long range testing was My buddy can't see the bullet hole from Spotting Scope. Just only called out when saw a dust. This make me to first test with Steel plate which can called out when hit the target.

Shooting 5 shots group with 1 MOA at 800 yards was not enough to win the match.

So, I expected to shoot 5 shot group within half MOA at 800 yards thus will tight enough to competition.


Do anyone have an experienced for choosing different bullets design for competition?

Which one should I develop for competition at 800 yards. There are many detail waiting me to find like Accuracy weight charged and Seat Depth.

I read forum wrote about Bryan Litz won his FTR with 185 LRBT + Varget.

Just wondering, why he do not use 185 Hybrid which have a better BC and also design by him?


Reference ;
Temperature 34 Celcius
Humudity 65 %
Altitude 40 ft (above sea level)
Wind 5-6 mph (from 3 O'clock)

 

[clmayfield]

Re: Berger 185 LRBT or 185 Hybrid

Not much of a contest for me. The Hybrid has a higher BC and groups much better up close than the 185 LRBT.

 

[Down South]

Re: Berger 185 LRBT or 185 Hybrid

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Carter Mayfield</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not much of a contest for me. The Hybrid has a higher BC and groups much better up close than the 185 LRBT.</div></div>

I shoot the 185 hybrids and juggernauts in my match gun and I also give the edge to the hybrids in accuracy.

 

[l115a3]

Re: Berger 185 LRBT or 185 Hybrid

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Down South</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Carter Mayfield</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not much of a contest for me. The Hybrid has a higher BC and groups much better up close than the 185 LRBT.</div></div>

I shoot the 185 hybrids and juggernauts in my match gun and I also give the edge to the hybrids in accuracy. </div></div>



Could you please share about your bullet seat Depth for 185 Hybrid?

Does it sensitive with seat Depth as VLD style?

 

[Down South]

Re: Berger 185 LRBT or 185 Hybrid

Seating depth in my rifle for the 185 hybrid is 2.210 base to ogive. I single feed em.

 

[l115a3]

Re: Berger 185 LRBT or 185 Hybrid

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Down South</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Seating depth in my rifle for the 185 hybrid is 2.210 base to ogive. I single feed em. </div></div>

Have you test seat 185 Hybrid to touch the land?


Could you please share some reloading component and info?

 

[Heman]

Re: Berger 185 LRBT or 185 Hybrid

Up at Lodi Wisconsin this year during the MW Palma regional I was talking to Bryan about the hybrids and I knew he'd shot the LRBT (now Juggernaught) for some time. He was saying that they all are easier to tune than VLD's but some of the Hybrids are more forgiving than others the 105gr 6mm and the 180gr 7mm being the most forgiving. He said the bigger 30's are less forgiving. So with this in mind I'm guessing that could possibly be a reason why he shoots the LRBT than the Hybrid. As either he told me or I read that his load he sets up and then doesn't change teh seating depth as the throat goes out becasue the LRBT is VERY VERY forgiving.

Other reason is if you look at the G7 BC's you are only talking about a 0.01 difference in BC which isn't gonig to be really noticeable. And since his palma load (same as his FT/R load) works really well for him I don't think he feels he has to change.

The above is just my guessing as to his logic as I shoot the same identical load as he does for Palma and don't see a need to try the hybrids.

 

[l115a3]

Re: Berger 185 LRBT or 185 Hybrid

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Heman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Up at Lodi Wisconsin this year during the MW Palma regional I was talking to Bryan about the hybrids and I knew he'd shot the LRBT (now Juggernaught) for some time. He was saying that they all are easier to tune than VLD's but some of the Hybrids are more forgiving than others the 105gr 6mm and the 180gr 7mm being the most forgiving. He said the bigger 30's are less forgiving. So with this in mind I'm guessing that could possibly be a reason why he shoots the LRBT than the Hybrid. As either he told me or I read that his load he sets up and then doesn't change teh seating depth as the throat goes out becasue the LRBT is VERY VERY forgiving.

Other reason is if you look at the G7 BC's you are only talking about a 0.01 difference in BC which isn't gonig to be really noticeable. And since his palma load (same as his FT/R load) works really well for him I don't think he feels he has to change.

The above is just my guessing as to his logic as I shoot the same identical load as he does for Palma and don't see a need to try the hybrids. </div></div>



In case of have to order a new batch of bullet for F-TR, which one will you recommend to choose?


Could you share some loading guide of your handload for Berger .30 185 LRBT

 

[Heman]

Re: Berger 185 LRBT or 185 Hybrid

Personally I would go with the LRBT. I just ordered more bullets for my palma rifle and I stayed with the LRBT. The bullet has shot very well for me and is very forgiving as far as jump and there weren't enough benefits in BC gain to mess with switching bullets to the hybrid for me.

As far as my load development it was VERY easy. Shooting buddy of mine Dan Pohlabel (who is on the national Ft/R team) shot the 185gr LRBT two seasons ago. His load was 44gr of Varget and the LRBT. My reamer was set up for the LRBT with 0.01" jump so I just made 3 sets of 5 rounds at 44, 44.5, and 45gr and went out and shot them at 300. 44, was good, 44.5 was better, 45 wasn't any better. So I went with 44.5. When I started mollying I just added .5 and tried 45gr and all worked well.

As a side note Dan actually went to the 200 hybrids this year and pushes them around 2700fps. But I didn't want to go there personally with my rifle.

 

[clmayfield]

Re: Berger 185 LRBT or 185 Hybrid

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Golfy Sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Could you please share about your bullet seat Depth for 185 Hybrid?

Does it sensitive with seat Depth as VLD style?</div></div>

The whole reason Berger/Litz developed the hybrids was because they wanted a bullet that was less sensitive to jump than a VLD. The higher BC was just an added bonus. I jam about .007", but Bryan Litz recommends setting them for a short jump and then forgetting about it because then you don't have to worry about chasing the lands to keep your load consistent.

 

[l115a3]

Re: Berger 185 LRBT or 185 Hybrid

I just measure my chamber and the result with touch the land was here ;


.30 Berger 175 LRBT

COAL 2.935"
BOG 2.275"

----------

.30 Berger 185 LRBT

COAL 2.923"
BOG 2.283"


What seat depth should I start for develop powder charge?

I plan to start with BOG 2.250" to find the accuracy node. Is it ok?

 

[Heman]

Re: Berger 185 LRBT or 185 Hybrid

Jump the 185's 0.01" If using Varget your load will probably be around 44gr I am guessing.

 

[l115a3]

Re: Berger 185 LRBT or 185 Hybrid

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Heman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Jump the 185's 0.01" If using Varget your load will probably be around 44gr I am guessing. </div></div>

You mean jump 0.010" right?

 

[TannerGun]

Re: Berger 185 LRBT or 185 Hybrid

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Golfy Sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Heman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Jump the 185's 0.01" If using Varget your load will probably be around 44gr I am guessing. </div></div>

You mean jump 0.010" right?

</div></div> They're the same value...