Fieldcraft mil vs moa
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Re: mil vs moa
Ok thanks that help explain it I have been reading up a lot on it and I am starting to grasp the MOA to Mil concept a little still trying to comprehend it I undrestand 1 MOA = 1 inch @ 100 yards and 1 Mil = 3.375 MOA if I am wrong please correct me now I just need my scope and some tagets to practice ranging and collecting a dope
Ok thanks that help explain it I have been reading up a lot on it and I am starting to grasp the MOA to Mil concept a little still trying to comprehend it I undrestand 1 MOA = 1 inch @ 100 yards and 1 Mil = 3.375 MOA if I am wrong please correct me now I just need my scope and some tagets to practice ranging and collecting a dope
Re: mil vs moa
The main thing to consider when choosing between MOA and MIL is how you estimate best. With MOA you will typically be breaking target size down in 1/4 (.25) increments and with MIL you will be breaking it down in 1/10 (.10) increments. It really is a personal preference.
I recommend the Impact Data Books RETS targets for training: http://www.impactdatabooks.com/Range_Estimation_Training_Set_RETS_p/i-rets.htm
The main thing to consider when choosing between MOA and MIL is how you estimate best. With MOA you will typically be breaking target size down in 1/4 (.25) increments and with MIL you will be breaking it down in 1/10 (.10) increments. It really is a personal preference.
I recommend the Impact Data Books RETS targets for training: http://www.impactdatabooks.com/Range_Estimation_Training_Set_RETS_p/i-rets.htm
Re: mil vs moa
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 432texas</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ok thanks that help explain it I have been reading up a lot on it and I am starting to grasp the MOA to Mil concept a little still trying to comprehend it I undrestand 1 MOA = 1 inch @ 100 yards and 1 Mil = 3.375 MOA if I am wrong please correct me now I just need my scope and some tagets to practice ranging and collecting a dope </div></div>
1 MOA is 1.0472" at 100 yards, 1 MIL is 3.6" at 100 yards. to convert MOA to Mil Divide MOA by 3.438. I started with mils, seems easier with the 1/10 division than 1/4 with moa. I only convert moa to mils because my free balistics calc only tells me drop/wind in moa.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 432texas</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ok thanks that help explain it I have been reading up a lot on it and I am starting to grasp the MOA to Mil concept a little still trying to comprehend it I undrestand 1 MOA = 1 inch @ 100 yards and 1 Mil = 3.375 MOA if I am wrong please correct me now I just need my scope and some tagets to practice ranging and collecting a dope </div></div>
1 MOA is 1.0472" at 100 yards, 1 MIL is 3.6" at 100 yards. to convert MOA to Mil Divide MOA by 3.438. I started with mils, seems easier with the 1/10 division than 1/4 with moa. I only convert moa to mils because my free balistics calc only tells me drop/wind in moa.
Re: mil vs moa
Best way to do it is to pull out some Trig lessons-
The formula behind Milradian is pretty damn simple, once you figure it out, you're golden.
Here's the formula S=R(Theta)
(Theta) is an angle, described in radians
A circle(360 degrees) is 2(Pi) radians, 90 degrees is (Pi)/2, 180 degrees is (Pi).
2X(Pi) (2X 3.14159...) comes out to approximately 6.283
so, on a circle with a radius of one foot, the circumference is 6.283 feet.
Now, we plug this into S=R(Theta)
A Milradian means quite literally a thousandth of a radian, so where we would plug in 2(Pi) for the S of a full circle,
you plug in (.001) for your Theta value
in case I haven't mentioned it, R is the radius of the circle.
so now our equation looks like this:
S=(distance in centimeters)X(Theta)
So, if you're ranging a target at 100 meters, you plug in 10,000
and if the Target is one milradian, plug in .001
result- (10,000 cm) x(.001 milradian)=(Your S value)= 10 cm.
And thats how it works. 200 meters, 20 cm, 300 meters, 30 cm, and so on.
Milradians are easy as hell when you use metric. if you're one of those heathens that still uses the english system, I guess you could use MOA, but the Engrish system is stupid when you want fast and easy notes.
Best way to do it is to pull out some Trig lessons-
The formula behind Milradian is pretty damn simple, once you figure it out, you're golden.
Here's the formula S=R(Theta)
(Theta) is an angle, described in radians
A circle(360 degrees) is 2(Pi) radians, 90 degrees is (Pi)/2, 180 degrees is (Pi).
2X(Pi) (2X 3.14159...) comes out to approximately 6.283
so, on a circle with a radius of one foot, the circumference is 6.283 feet.
Now, we plug this into S=R(Theta)
A Milradian means quite literally a thousandth of a radian, so where we would plug in 2(Pi) for the S of a full circle,
you plug in (.001) for your Theta value
in case I haven't mentioned it, R is the radius of the circle.
so now our equation looks like this:
S=(distance in centimeters)X(Theta)
So, if you're ranging a target at 100 meters, you plug in 10,000
and if the Target is one milradian, plug in .001
result- (10,000 cm) x(.001 milradian)=(Your S value)= 10 cm.
And thats how it works. 200 meters, 20 cm, 300 meters, 30 cm, and so on.
Milradians are easy as hell when you use metric. if you're one of those heathens that still uses the english system, I guess you could use MOA, but the Engrish system is stupid when you want fast and easy notes.
Re: mil vs moa
Thanks dfoosking that clarified it for me I have been looking at some online stuff but even they have discrepensies in what each says should you round up or use the actual moa it seems at longer distance that rounding up would start to put you way off the target?
Thanks dfoosking that clarified it for me I have been looking at some online stuff but even they have discrepensies in what each says should you round up or use the actual moa it seems at longer distance that rounding up would start to put you way off the target?
Re: mil vs moa
If you chose a scope with matching reticle and turrets (i.e. MIL/MIL or MOA/MOA) you will have very little reason (if any) to convert MIL to MOA and vice versa.
If you chose a scope with matching reticle and turrets (i.e. MIL/MIL or MOA/MOA) you will have very little reason (if any) to convert MIL to MOA and vice versa.
Re: mil vs moa
go to www.shooterready.com its a little online "game" but it will give you a free chance to practice with MIL or MOA scopes...its kind of fun too...
go to www.shooterready.com its a little online "game" but it will give you a free chance to practice with MIL or MOA scopes...its kind of fun too...
Re: mil vs moa
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CEL317</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you chose a scope with matching reticle and turrets (i.e. MIL/MIL or MOA/MOA) you will have very little reason (if any) to convert MIL to MOA and vice versa. </div></div>
Hell yeah, is it a mistake that Horus' Mil-Mil scopes are a buttload more than their normal stuff? I think not.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CEL317</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you chose a scope with matching reticle and turrets (i.e. MIL/MIL or MOA/MOA) you will have very little reason (if any) to convert MIL to MOA and vice versa. </div></div>
Hell yeah, is it a mistake that Horus' Mil-Mil scopes are a buttload more than their normal stuff? I think not.
Re: mil vs moa
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DFOOSKING</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Anvil Xray</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Best way to do it is to pull out some Trig lessons-
The formula behind Milradian is pretty damn simple, once you figure it out, you're golden.
Here's the formula S=R(Theta)
(Theta) is an angle, described in radians
A circle(360 degrees) is 2(Pi) radians, 90 degrees is (Pi)/2, 180 degrees is (Pi).
2X(Pi) (2X 3.14159...) comes out to approximately 6.283
so, on a circle with a radius of one foot, the circumference is 6.283 feet.
Now, we plug this into S=R(Theta)
A Milradian means quite literally a thousandth of a radian, so where we would plug in 2(Pi) for the S of a full circle,
you plug in (.001) for your Theta value
in case I haven't mentioned it, R is the radius of the circle.
so now our equation looks like this:
S=(distance in centimeters)X(Theta)
So, if you're ranging a target at 100 meters, you plug in 10,000
and if the Target is one milradian, plug in .001
result- (10,000 cm) x(.001 milradian)=(Your S value)= 10 cm.
And thats how it works. 200 meters, 20 cm, 300 meters, 30 cm, and so on.
Milradians are easy as hell when you use metric. if you're one of those heathens that still uses the english system, I guess you could use MOA, but the Engrish system is stupid when you want fast and easy notes. </div></div>
WOW!
Congrats...that's some serious math bullshit there.
Serves absolutely no purpose other than to confuse....but I guess it worked.
And although I speak perfect Engrish and use Mil based scopes...I have no clue how to use the metric system effectively. Good thing since Mils have nothing to do with the metric system.
A mil is 1/1000 of something...anything.
1 mile at a 1000 miles
1 yard at a 1000 yards
1 inch at a 1000 inches
Take 1 yard at 1000yds.....thats 36".
Moving the decimal place over you can see how that becomes 3.6" at 100yds.
3.6" equals 3.43 MOA....since MOA is an angular adjustment. 1 mil equals 3.43 MOA at <span style="text-decoration: underline">any</span> range.
Hard to understand? Here's a visual...
A mil is the center of a dot to the center of another dot....at <span style="text-decoration: underline">any</span> range! You spot your miss 1 mil low dial up 1 mil regardless of distance.
The "rough moa value" shown is just rounding the MOA value to 3.5 because our turrets that subtend in MOA are often in 1/4 MOA increments....you can dial dial 3.25 or 3.5 but not 3.43. </div></div>
Dude, it would have been a lot easier on a blackboard because of those damn greek letters these mathematicians love using, but either way, if you're into serious shooting, or adjusting fire, or anything that has to do with messing things up in the most awesome manner possible, Trigonometry rocks.
Hell, we learned this formula the first week, then last month we spent doing the math for polar fire missions. this week, we're working on the math behind wind drift and bullet drop. It should be called "Math for Badasses" in the course catalog.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DFOOSKING</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Anvil Xray</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Best way to do it is to pull out some Trig lessons-
The formula behind Milradian is pretty damn simple, once you figure it out, you're golden.
Here's the formula S=R(Theta)
(Theta) is an angle, described in radians
A circle(360 degrees) is 2(Pi) radians, 90 degrees is (Pi)/2, 180 degrees is (Pi).
2X(Pi) (2X 3.14159...) comes out to approximately 6.283
so, on a circle with a radius of one foot, the circumference is 6.283 feet.
Now, we plug this into S=R(Theta)
A Milradian means quite literally a thousandth of a radian, so where we would plug in 2(Pi) for the S of a full circle,
you plug in (.001) for your Theta value
in case I haven't mentioned it, R is the radius of the circle.
so now our equation looks like this:
S=(distance in centimeters)X(Theta)
So, if you're ranging a target at 100 meters, you plug in 10,000
and if the Target is one milradian, plug in .001
result- (10,000 cm) x(.001 milradian)=(Your S value)= 10 cm.
And thats how it works. 200 meters, 20 cm, 300 meters, 30 cm, and so on.
Milradians are easy as hell when you use metric. if you're one of those heathens that still uses the english system, I guess you could use MOA, but the Engrish system is stupid when you want fast and easy notes. </div></div>
WOW!
Congrats...that's some serious math bullshit there.
Serves absolutely no purpose other than to confuse....but I guess it worked.
And although I speak perfect Engrish and use Mil based scopes...I have no clue how to use the metric system effectively. Good thing since Mils have nothing to do with the metric system.
A mil is 1/1000 of something...anything.
1 mile at a 1000 miles
1 yard at a 1000 yards
1 inch at a 1000 inches
Take 1 yard at 1000yds.....thats 36".
Moving the decimal place over you can see how that becomes 3.6" at 100yds.
3.6" equals 3.43 MOA....since MOA is an angular adjustment. 1 mil equals 3.43 MOA at <span style="text-decoration: underline">any</span> range.
Hard to understand? Here's a visual...
A mil is the center of a dot to the center of another dot....at <span style="text-decoration: underline">any</span> range! You spot your miss 1 mil low dial up 1 mil regardless of distance.
The "rough moa value" shown is just rounding the MOA value to 3.5 because our turrets that subtend in MOA are often in 1/4 MOA increments....you can dial dial 3.25 or 3.5 but not 3.43. </div></div>
Dude, it would have been a lot easier on a blackboard because of those damn greek letters these mathematicians love using, but either way, if you're into serious shooting, or adjusting fire, or anything that has to do with messing things up in the most awesome manner possible, Trigonometry rocks.
Hell, we learned this formula the first week, then last month we spent doing the math for polar fire missions. this week, we're working on the math behind wind drift and bullet drop. It should be called "Math for Badasses" in the course catalog.
Re: mil vs moa
cel317 can you explain how if I am using a mil/mil scope how I wont have to mess with moa is it because the scope turrents are set up in mil adjustments? If so how do you range with known higth object? Sorry but I am such a newb all my shooting has been red dot
cel317 can you explain how if I am using a mil/mil scope how I wont have to mess with moa is it because the scope turrents are set up in mil adjustments? If so how do you range with known higth object? Sorry but I am such a newb all my shooting has been red dot
Re: mil vs moa
Check out LoneWolfUSMC's video Mildot Range Estimation, Mil Relation Formula - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mhRia0UraI
I would also recommend watching all of his videos.
Check out LoneWolfUSMC's video Mildot Range Estimation, Mil Relation Formula - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mhRia0UraI
I would also recommend watching all of his videos.
Re: mil vs moa
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jedi</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Know your dope
use a mildot master
Dial whatever correction you see in scope, FFP works best
really there is no need for all that math
Use tools available and skip the math class </div></div>
ok yeah, there's no need for it, but a deeper understanding of the mechanics behind something never hurt anyone....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jedi</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Know your dope
use a mildot master
Dial whatever correction you see in scope, FFP works best
really there is no need for all that math
Use tools available and skip the math class </div></div>
ok yeah, there's no need for it, but a deeper understanding of the mechanics behind something never hurt anyone....
Re: mil vs moa
Here's a good article on MILS and MOA
http://www.mil-dot.com/media/1027/the_derivation_of_the_range_estimation_equations.pdf
And here's a good ballistic calculator to play and learn
http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmtraj-5.1.cgi
Here's a good article on MILS and MOA
http://www.mil-dot.com/media/1027/the_derivation_of_the_range_estimation_equations.pdf
And here's a good ballistic calculator to play and learn
http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmtraj-5.1.cgi
Re: mil vs moa
Never understood why the USA stuck with imperial measurments. Post revolution throwing off the british yoke and all.... Mils are THAT much easier to udnerstand and apply with metric distances. Yes, milradian isnt a metric unit of measure but it damn well makes my brain hurt reading mils in reference to yards and inches (my own fault and upbrining).
1 mil = 10cm @ 100m
1 mil = 1m @ 1000m
1 click (.1mrad) = 1cm @ 100m
Ahhh, refreshingly simple to dial and use.
I use Ballistic AE (powered by JBM) for making up data cards, but yeah, still range in 100m at a time back to 600m for real data. Can use truing function on the newest updates.
Never understood why the USA stuck with imperial measurments. Post revolution throwing off the british yoke and all.... Mils are THAT much easier to udnerstand and apply with metric distances. Yes, milradian isnt a metric unit of measure but it damn well makes my brain hurt reading mils in reference to yards and inches (my own fault and upbrining).
1 mil = 10cm @ 100m
1 mil = 1m @ 1000m
1 click (.1mrad) = 1cm @ 100m
Ahhh, refreshingly simple to dial and use.
I use Ballistic AE (powered by JBM) for making up data cards, but yeah, still range in 100m at a time back to 600m for real data. Can use truing function on the newest updates.
Re: mil vs moa
The biggest mistake most folks make is trying to convert mils to moa.
There is no reason to do this.
As long as the reticle matches the adjustments, you are good to go (mil/mil, moa/moa)
As far as the mil relation formula goes, it is fairly simple.
Height of item in inches x 27.8 (25.4)/Mils read = Distance to target in yards (meters)
A typical measurement for a whitetail deer is 18" from brisket to top of back
18x27.8=500.4
Divide that by the mils read, let's say 4.5
500.4/4.5=111.2 yards
The formula for MOA is very similar, only the multiplier is differnt
height in inches x 100/moa
so 18x100=1800
1800/16= 112.5
The biggest mistake most folks make is trying to convert mils to moa.
There is no reason to do this.
As long as the reticle matches the adjustments, you are good to go (mil/mil, moa/moa)
As far as the mil relation formula goes, it is fairly simple.
Height of item in inches x 27.8 (25.4)/Mils read = Distance to target in yards (meters)
A typical measurement for a whitetail deer is 18" from brisket to top of back
18x27.8=500.4
Divide that by the mils read, let's say 4.5
500.4/4.5=111.2 yards
The formula for MOA is very similar, only the multiplier is differnt
height in inches x 100/moa
so 18x100=1800
1800/16= 112.5
Re: mil vs moa
I should have clarified.
I was speaking to those that have a mil/mil scope and still insist on converting.
I should have clarified.
I was speaking to those that have a mil/mil scope and still insist on converting.
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