Suppressors Expected life of a Suppressor

[KACstealth]

I am just curious what the expected round count a suppressor can be expected to handle?
I love shooting with them, and typically leave them on while at the range, however if there is a chance that I will outshoot the Can I will start using them less.
I currently have an m4-2000, Gemtech g5T, and Gemtech outback II

Thanks

 

[KACstealth]

Re: Expected life of a Suppressor

 

[KACstealth]

Re: Expected life of a Suppressor

picture to help with answers

 

[Alric]

Re: Expected life of a Suppressor

As I understand it, rifle suppressors wear out via the high pressures/temperatures actually wearing away baffles. This depends on firing schedule, load, barrel length and suppressor materials. You can probably look at the baffle erosion yourself and make some sort of reasonable determination about whether the wear you are seeing is acceptable for your uses.

Rimfire cans wear out by filling up with crap, assuming they aren't user serviceable. Centerfire pistols and rifles have enough pressure to make that a non-issue.

 

[KACstealth]

Re: Expected life of a Suppressor

Sweet, thanks for the response. That makes sense. I am trying to find a rough round count so I have an idea. I try to log what I Put through them all

 

[m1garand30064]

Re: Expected life of a Suppressor

My dealer has an M4-2000 that he has used for demos. He's run it hard on short barrel AR's and M-16s. I think he told me he has 50,000+ rounds through it. The blast baffle looks like it has taken a beating but the suppressor still sounds great!

It's a tough can for sure.

 

[KACstealth]

Re: Expected life of a Suppressor

wow, that is awesome and makes me feel much better about shooting it so much (not 50k much) hahha

thanks

 

[Bronco]

Re: Expected life of a Suppressor

Have just went through a learning experience with my AAC 762 SD. I missed some easy shots at a local match last weekend and just couldn't understand why. Decided to put the rifle/suppressor on paper at 200 yd. got a nice 4" group, mostly vertical. Changed to a different rifle and same suppressor, same result. Then shot rifle without suppressor, sub 1/2 moa 5/8" group at 200. OK found the problem. Put the can in ultrasonic cleaner for 3 hr., plugged it and filled with solvent, left it overnight. Cleaned it out and let it dry. Lots of fouling, carbon, and gunk.

It has been really windy, but I went ahead and shot it at 500 yd just to see if the vertical had been fixed. Seems to have fixed the problem. Only had 1.5" of vertical at 500 yd. Well within my expectations. When the weather gives me a good day I'll put it back on paper at 200 and 300 just to make sure.

Can has 4000+ rounds through it and had been cleaned at 1500 rounds. Mostly 6 Dasher, 6X47L, and 308. My plan is to clean it every 1500 rounds from now on. A can may last 50,000 rounds but it does need periodic maintenence.

 

[Stalking_Rhino]

Re: Expected life of a Suppressor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Alric</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As I understand it, rifle suppressors wear out via the high pressures/temperatures actually wearing away baffles. This depends on firing schedule, load, barrel length and suppressor materials. You can probably look at the baffle erosion yourself and make some sort of reasonable determination about whether the wear you are seeing is acceptable for your uses.

Rimfire cans wear out by filling up with crap, assuming they aren't user serviceable. Centerfire pistols and rifles have enough pressure to make that a non-issue. </div></div>

It isn't pressure or heat that wears out a rifle can its the unburnt powder and the gases that destroy the baffles.

Rimfire cans lose effectiveness from erosion as well as from buildup. Centerfire pistols DO NOT have enough pressure to be a non issue, centerfire pistols erode just like rifle cans just slower, and centerfire pistol cans fill up just like rimfires, its less noticeable due to the increased volume.

We just dealt with a 9mm SMG can that weighed in one ounce lighter than double its factory weight and the baffles are incredibly eroded.

 

[sib1948]

Re: Expected life of a Suppressor

This may not be of an issue with titanium cans, since the metal does not rust or corrode. With regular ultrasonic cleaning they should be accurate and last a lifetime.

 

[KACstealth]

Re: Expected life of a Suppressor

I was unaware you could clean them with an ultrasonic

 

[sib1948]

Re: Expected life of a Suppressor

Buy one from TBAC and pay for the shipping and they will do free ultrasonic cleaning for you yearly. Great company run by precision shooters.

 

[Zak Smith]

Re: Expected life of a Suppressor

Here are two relevant tech notes on our cans
http://thunderbeastarms.com/forum/threads/how-long-will-my-suppressor-last.3/
http://thunderbeastarms.com/forum/threads/do-i-need-to-clean-my-suppressor-how-often.4/

 

[KACstealth]

Re: Expected life of a Suppressor

wow, that is awesome. I am in the market for a 308 suppressor so I may do that

 

[Stalking_Rhino]

Re: Expected life of a Suppressor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Zak Smith</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here are two relevant tech notes on our cans
http://thunderbeastarms.com/forum/threads/how-long-will-my-suppressor-last.3/
http://thunderbeastarms.com/forum/threads/do-i-need-to-clean-my-suppressor-how-often.4/ </div></div>

You make your silencers from something phenomenally harder than Inconel? I haven't seen a Inconel can that didn't show wear when used in its intended manner.

Can you clarify that first link?

 

[3DHUSKER]

Re: Expected life of a Suppressor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: StalkingRhino</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Zak Smith</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here are two relevant tech notes on our cans
http://thunderbeastarms.com/forum/threads/how-long-will-my-suppressor-last.3/
http://thunderbeastarms.com/forum/threads/do-i-need-to-clean-my-suppressor-how-often.4/ </div></div>

You make your silencers from something phenomenally harder than Inconel? I haven't seen a Inconel can that didn't show wear when used in its intended manner.

Can you clarify that first link? </div></div>

Can you read? Read again, but this time s-l-o-w-l-y.

Clue.... They are a light precision can maker.

 

[agbm]

Re: Expected life of a Suppressor

Should last forever with care!!

 

[VJJPunisher]

Re: Expected life of a Suppressor

After a few hundred rounds through my ops 12th I fill the can with sand and then fire a tound through it, gotta pack the San in there tight to really get that abrasion going an it cleans it out gooderestest



Edited to add disclaimer- this is a joke, there may be some mouthbreathers out there that would try this

 

[KACstealth]

Re: Expected life of a Suppressor

fuck i was about to try that, sounds effective

 

[1911fan]

Re: Expected life of a Suppressor

I've got an SWR Wolverine, a .223 can. I was thinking about shooting my .22-250AI through it, so I called SWR and asked them about it. They said it would shorten the life of the device. I told them I knew that, but to what degree?
Their answer was, about 15,000 rounds of .22-250AI (at 4000fps) would be needed before the can might need repairing.


1911fan

 

[Zak Smith]

Re: Expected life of a Suppressor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 3DHUSKER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Clue.... </div></div>
Ok, to follow up on this, I wrote that in the context of our precision rifle cans (and it says as much). I don't think we've seen a 30P-1 or 30BA with any baffle erosion, even the oldest test units.

On our F/A, SBR .223 suppressor, we have a test unit with about 15,000 rounds on a 7" M16. It does have a little bit of visible erosion but it is purely cosmetic and does not affect the function. This is about the worst case for erosion due to the extremely short barrel and F/A.

If you got a semi truck full of ammo and started shooting it through a 30P-1 24/7/365, I'm sure eventually you could get some wear and maybe even wear it out. I don't know how long that would take, but it would be many, many times more rounds than any person could reasonably fire in their lifetime.

Long story short, just like what AGBM said, "Should last forever with care!!"

 

[K_4c]

Re: Expected life of a Suppressor

What rate of fire do you (Zak) consider high for a 30 serries can? I ask b/c I run my 30-BA on my .260 rem (bolt) and .308 MWS (along with a few other semiauto 223's).

I know mag dumps are ill advised.....

thanks for your input.

 

[Zak Smith]

Re: Expected life of a Suppressor

Several rules of thumb. One, keep the can's temp under 800 F. Two, if you are shooting for accuracy more than volume, it shouldn't be an issue. If your precision rifle barrel is hotter than you want a precision rifle barrel, it's a good time to take a break. I can't give an exact rate of fire because it depends on cartridge, barrel length, etc. (Eg, The heat input per shot from a 20" .223 is less than the heat input from a .308.)

 

[K_4c]

Re: Expected life of a Suppressor

much appreciated Zak....

 

[Strykervet]

Re: Expected life of a Suppressor

The simple answer would be to call the makers of the ones you are interested in and just ask them. They could probably give you ballpark figures based on what you will be using it on. But in general, shorter barrels (particularly barrels short enough to not burn all the gas and ones that produce generous muzzle flash) and/or weapons fired full auto or sustained rapid fire tend to wear faster. The SDN6 uses an Inconel blast baffle and that is, as far as my knowledge, the toughest alloy you can use for that. I also know some folks with short barrels and SDN6's or M42000's use the dual chamber brake and the baffles on those brakes when fired full auto with a short barrel wear VERY rapidly. Supposedly they wear slower after an initial period, but the wear is significant. Anyway, their reasoning is that these brakes take the wear and they replace them periodically so as to reduce wear on the actual blast baffle itself.

Conversely, AAC makes a thread on 5.5" 5.56 suppressor that is designed to be welded onto 11.5" barrels for those of us in non-SBR states (like mine). So I suspect that the baffle must be pretty damn tough in order for them to sell it for that application.

I have a Brakeout and SDN6 with a 1000 or so through the Brakeout and a few thousand through the SDN6. No wear to speak of yet, save the tiniest of tiniest of indication of erosion just around the first baffle of the Brakeout.

 

[KACstealth]

Re: Expected life of a Suppressor

Thank you all for the advice and knowledge

 

[Stalking_Rhino]

Re: Expected life of a Suppressor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Zak Smith</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 3DHUSKER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Clue.... </div></div>
Ok, to follow up on this, I wrote that in the context of our precision rifle cans (and it says as much). I don't think we've seen a 30P-1 or 30BA with any baffle erosion, even the oldest test units.

On our F/A, SBR .223 suppressor, we have a test unit with about 15,000 rounds on a 7" M16. It does have a little bit of visible erosion but it is purely cosmetic and does not affect the function. This is about the worst case for erosion due to the extremely short barrel and F/A.

If you got a semi truck full of ammo and started shooting it through a 30P-1 24/7/365, I'm sure eventually you could get some wear and maybe even wear it out. I don't know how long that would take, but it would be many, many times more rounds than any person could reasonably fire in their lifetime.

Long story short, just like what AGBM said, "Should last forever with care!!"
</div></div>

Thank you for the clarification Zak.

Most of the inconel 556 cans that I have seen with 15000 rounds on a 7.5 looked like a tunnel, cans like the KAC NT, AAC M42000.

Thanks again.

 

[Stalking_Rhino]

Re: Expected life of a Suppressor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 3DHUSKER</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: StalkingRhino</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Zak Smith</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here are two relevant tech notes on our cans
http://thunderbeastarms.com/forum/threads/how-long-will-my-suppressor-last.3/
http://thunderbeastarms.com/forum/threads/do-i-need-to-clean-my-suppressor-how-often.4/ </div></div>

You make your silencers from something phenomenally harder than Inconel? I haven't seen a Inconel can that didn't show wear when used in its intended manner.

Can you clarify that first link? </div></div>

Can you read? Read again, but this time s-l-o-w-l-y.

Clue.... They are a light precision can maker.

</div></div>

Not sure what your beef with me is but no need to get rude and disrespectful.

 

[Rprecision]

Re: Expected life of a Suppressor

I asked the same thing about a AWC Raider. AWC who has made the can for years for the military, claims to have cans with over 100K of 5.56 through them. The marines sent some cans back for service in this round count that still met original sound reduction numbers. It was unknown if this was SBR or not.

I also asked about a 22.250, they simply stated if it was anything less then 16" maybe it will effect life, otherwise it would likely have no impact.

With as many cans as there are out there, there are differences in build quality and materials. But the big part of the equation is how its used, something that is hard to measure or get good information about.

Titanium cans always made me wonder what the thermal stress on welds and baffles would be. Nasa / aero space learned this early on with stress fractures, Etc. Titanium has a unique relationship with repeated stress and heat. Intially, the Challenger that crashed, was believed to stem from a Titanium rocket turbine which they had difficulty with in testing. I would be curious to hear what Zak has learned about this with his product. With that said it didnt stop me from buying a 30P1

 

[Matt.Cross]

Re: Expected life of a Suppressor

My Ops Inc 12th Model is rated for 30,000+ rounds. Just for comparison, it isn't unusual for good barrels to last to 10,000 rounds. So, I could expect to put 3 or more barrels on my rifle before I would have to replace/repair my suppressor.

 

[HPLLC]

Re: Expected life of a Suppressor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Matt.Cross</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My Ops Inc 12th Model is rated for 30,000+ rounds. Just for comparison, it isn't unusual for good barrels to last to 10,000 rounds. So, I could expect to put 3 or more barrels on my rifle before I would have to replace/repair my suppressor. </div></div>

Barring a baffle strike, they will last that long.

800 degrees is probably a good threshold for titanium, and 1200 for stainless steel and inconel.

Above those you're getting into an area where titanium will lose its heat treated strength properties and where stainless and inconel will begin to get (at least temporarilly) significantly softer and weaker also.

The higher temperature gradient of 1200 to room temperature makes cooling about 450F per minute at 1200F so the fire schedule the stainless and inconel cans will handle is improved over lower temperature materials.

There are some guys who have successfully pushed their stainless and inconel cans to ~1500F (glowing in daylight) without destroying them, but up in that ballpark things like bulged tubes or accelerated baffle erosion can happen.

625 inconel at around 1600 begins to anneal, and losing cold reduction strength enhancement is about a 50% loss of strength for 625 inconel. So cook it once to 1700F and if you're lucky enough not to ruin it, the can will be possibly 50% as strong as it originally was.

718 on the other hand anneals to similar strength as cold formed 625 inconel so if you survive the push to high temperature, the 718 will still be very strong. 300 series stainless steels are also relatively uneffected from heating and cooling to 1400F, provided the can was designed strong enough to operate at 1400F.