Dillon for match grade ammo

[Genius.]

I am getting a Dillon, mainly for 9mm and .45.

I am wondering if loading match grade stuff is possible on one for my rifle rounds. If so does the 550 or 650 have any advantages over the other?

For my handgun loads I don't need the auto index of the 650, I don't shoot enough to justify a case feeder and auto index. But, if a 650 will produce better ammo, I am willing to get one.

Or will both produce the same quality with a Whidden tool head?

 

[rrflyer]

Re: Dillon for match grade ammo

Do a search.... There's been tons of talk.

Short answer is the press you use really doesn't mean a whole lot.... And many people load on dillons for match ammo. Especially if you single weigh yor powder charges for match grade stuff.


The 650 won't make any better or worse ammo than the 550 but the 650 is handicapped without the use of the casefeeder

 

[turbo54]

Re: Dillon for match grade ammo

Nope, can't be done.

"Match" ammo MUST be loaded slowly.

 

[BirdEyes]

Re: Dillon for match grade ammo

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nope, can't be done.

"Match" ammo MUST be loaded slowly. </div></div>

I would disagree to this as a blanket statement as evidenced by any number of top tier competitors that use progressive presses for all of their ammo. Modified pressed are used such as modifing toolheads, using prometheus powder drops, etc. but several switched from only using progressive for short range ammunition to using it for everything. The Dillon 550 is one of the more popular in that regard.

I will agree with the MUST be loaded slowly comment to the extent that it will usually take more than one pass through the press for each piece of brass effectivly slowing potential throughput.It really depends on how much brass preparation you routinely do.

 

[WillAdams]

Re: Dillon for match grade ammo

Crock of CRAP !! Ask the guy down in South Africa that one the World Championships a few years back. He used a DILLON.

 

[wingnut49b]

Re: Dillon for match grade ammo

I'm guessing that Turbo is joking. There are a lot of questions about this, and quite a few that assert match ammo can't be done unless on a single stage. Many more have made great ammo on a Dillon.

Powder throw will be the biggest sticking point. Polish the thrower & pick a ball powder. Or better yet, get a Chargemaster and a funnel instead of a thrower.

I have a 550 and like it. But if you load alot you'll start dreaming about a 650. Don't bother with a 650 without a casefeeder though.

 

[Jackalope33B]

Re: Dillon for match grade ammo

check out Brianenos.com

 

[tlsmith22]

Re: Dillon for match grade ammo

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rrflyer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Do a search.... There's been tons of talk.

Short answer is the press you use really doesn't mean a whole lot.... And many people load on dillons for match ammo. Especially if you single weigh yor powder charges for match grade stuff.


The 650 won't make any better or worse ammo than the 550 but the 650 is handicapped without the use of the casefeeder</div></div>

what he said

 

[turbo54]

Re: Dillon for match grade ammo

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wingnut49b</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm guessing that Turbo is joking. There are a lot of questions about this, and quite a few that assert match ammo can't be done unless on a single stage. Many more have made great ammo on a Dillon.

Powder throw will be the biggest sticking point. Polish the thrower & pick a ball powder. Or better yet, get a Chargemaster and a funnel instead of a thrower.

I have a 550 and like it. But if you load alot you'll start dreaming about a 650. Don't bother with a 650 without a casefeeder though. </div></div>

You'd be guessing correct.

I'm just sick of answering this question twice a week, and I let my frustration get the best of me.

I load all my precision ammo on a 650, and I highly advocate it. That, or a Hornady LnL AP.

OP: If you search for "progressive" and look for usernames turbo54 and/or YAOG, you'll find LOTS AND LOTS AND LOTS of excellent info regarding what kind of setups we've got and how it's working.

 

[rg1911]

Re: Dillon for match grade ammo

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rrflyer</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> but the 650 is handicapped without the use of the casefeeder </div></div>
You can lessen this problem by getting lengths of clear plastic thick-walled tubing with an inside-diameter sufficient to hold the cases. I cut mine to 4-foot lengths (otherwise the tube runs into the overhead). (There's a clip on the 650 that I believe is there to hold the short plastic tube that comes with the machine. I use it to hold the long tubes.) These hold 50 .45ACP cases, 25 .223, around 37 .30 carbine, and right now I can't remember how many .308. I think 20. I tumble the cases with a few squirts of Hornady One Shot, load a bunch of tubes and start pulling the handle.

Works like a champ. Not as automated as the Dillon case feeder, but a whole lot less expensive. Besides, while inserting the cases into the tubes, I usually spot one or two problem cases.

Cheers,
Richard

 

[YAOG]

Re: Dillon for match grade ammo

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nope, can't be done.

"Match" ammo MUST be loaded slowly. </div></div>

Turbo54 you troll. LOL!

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Dillon for match grade ammo

I have only ever owned one press, my RL550B. For critical accuracy applications I drop, then check, powder charges. Otherwise, it's pretty much all progressive reloading for me.

It's the Dillon which taught me that a lot of the more extreme handloading tip/tricks/techniques are superfluous. The Dillon's consistency is better than my own; which is why all that extra work was wasted on me.

Developing a rhythm, and sticking to it, combined with the Dillon's innate consistency, are the keys to my reloading mantra.

Consistency is essential to effective accuracy handloading.

Greg

 

[300ATT]

Re: Dillon for match grade ammo

It all depends what "match grade" means to you. If it means ammo as good as Federal Gold Medal match then yes you can load that quality of ammo on a Dillon.

Without the case feeder the 650 is a waste. You don't really need the whidden tool head but use a match bullet seater die.

Lose the dillon powder measure and use a pecision measure and funnel if you are going use a stick powder; otherwise you are good to go if you can use a ball powder.

 

[YAOG]

Re: Dillon for match grade ammo

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: .300 AT&T</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It all depends what "match grade" means to you. If it means ammo as good as Federal Gold Medal match then yes you can load that quality of ammo on a Dillon.

Without the case feeder the 650 is a waste. You don't really need the whidden tool head but use a match bullet seater die.

Lose the dillon powder measure and use a pecision measure and funnel if you are going use a stick powder; otherwise you are good to go if you can use a ball powder. </div></div>

Anyone with moderate hand loading skill and a well equipped high quality loading bench can load ammunition as good as FGMM. FGMM is off the shelf ammunition that has been optimized to shoot very well out of many common rifle configurations.

True "match grade ammo" to me means the ammunition was made to a very high level of consistent precision with a set of specs tailored for a specific weapon. Ideally match grade ammunition would be of sufficient quality so as to not be a factor in the shooter's resulting match score. What I mean is that the ammunition should not be a factor. The ammunition should be so good and so consistent that the limitations are caused by the shooter, weapon system and environment.

Regarding the impact on the quality of the ammunition produced with a Dillon 550 equipped with a Whidden toolhead I would say it can be huge. Whidden CNC'd and clamped toolheads provide the capability of a Dillon 550 to produce consistent world class ammunition. For serious precision shooting I scale each charge because the Dillon powder measure is not good enough for precision rifle use.

HTH!

 

[clmayfield]

Re: Dillon for match grade ammo

YAOG, do you use the floating die toolhead?

Certainly, good matchgrade stuff can be built on a progressive. The number one issue with the Dillon is the sloppy fit between the tool head and the press. This results in varying OAL's. You can make pretty accurate ammo even with some relatively high concentricities. However, if you have variance in OAL causing some bullets to be jammed and some to be jumped or forcing you to seat way away from the lands to avoid this, you don't have ammo as good as a single stage.

Also, if you have variances of a tenth of a grain of powder or more, you don't have ammo that is as good as handmade. These things can be achieved on a progressive with a few modifications as YAOG mentions above.

I am not usually a fan of learning to walk before you learn to run, but I actually think that a beginner should learn on a single stage and measure everything often. Once you get this down, you can learn to use a progressive to great effect.

You can buy a 550 and use it basically as a single stage. OR you can start on a single stage and buy a 650. Personally, I don't see the point of having a progressive without having auto indexing.

BTW, if you do get the 650, you will need to fix the indexing so it does not index as hard. I don't see why they didn't fix this from the get go. The fix is very simple.

 

[YAOG]

Re: Dillon for match grade ammo

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Carter Mayfield</div><div class="ubbcode-body">YAOG, do you use the floating die toolhead?

Certainly, good matchgrade stuff can be built on a progressive. The number one issue with the Dillon is the sloppy fit between the tool head and the press. This results in varying OAL's. You can make pretty accurate ammo even with some relatively high concentricities. However, if you have variance in OAL causing some bullets to be jammed and some to be jumped or forcing you to seat way away from the lands to avoid this, you don't have ammo as good as a single stage.

Also, if you have variances of a tenth of a grain of powder or more, you don't have ammo that is as good as handmade. These things can be achieved on a progressive with a few modifications as YAOG mentions above.

I am not usually a fan of learning to walk before you learn to run, but I actually think that a beginner should learn on a single stage and measure everything often. Once you get this down, you can learn to use a progressive to great effect.

You can buy a 550 and use it basically as a single stage. OR you can start on a single stage and buy a 650. Personally, I don't see the point of having a progressive without having auto indexing.

BTW, if you do get the 650, you will need to fix the indexing so it does not index as hard. I don't see why they didn't fix this from the get go. The fix is very simple. </div></div>

Carter,

Yes, I have been using various versions of the Whidden toolheads for quite some time now. What made everything really come together for me was when Redding released the Redding Instant Comparator I bought it on sight. The Redding Instant Comparator overnight allowed me to control shoulder and ogive to the point that every finished round is essentially mechanically identical.

I no longer just blindly bump case shoulders back a certain amount like most folks suggest. I double neck size with a FL size on the second necking. Every shoulder measures the same height from base to datum line and I can measure it to confirm during processing! This came about as I developed my loading workflow and killed one by one the limitations of the Dillon 550 on precision case processing.

Here is a photo taken last year or two ago of my press.

 

[clmayfield]

Re: Dillon for match grade ammo

Is that a permanent part of your process? It looks like you charge, size, size, measure, seat. Is that right?

 

[300ATT]

Re: Dillon for match grade ammo


I agree with YAOG you can make much better ammunition on a Dillon than FGMM. The question is what is required for the types of matches/shooting that you do and will it make a difference? What is good enough?

I have found that there are few shooters that can read wind ( at least here in CO ) to less than 1/2 MOA at 1,000 yards let alone hold 1/2 MOA in a sling (no bi-pod) whereas FGMM will pretty much shoots 1/2 MOA or better in any decent .308 match rifle.

However, never underestimate the power of suggestion and its effects on your scores. If you "know" your ammo is better you will tend to shoot better.

To that end the setup shown above will allow you to make ammo that exceeds FGMM in consistency and performance and take that part out of the equation.

Good shooting ...

 

[clmayfield]

Re: Dillon for match grade ammo

I looked at some 175 gr 308 FGMM ammo a while ago. Seating depth varied by about 10 thou for 20 cartridges with a Standard Deviation of 3 thou. That means 95% will have a 6 thou differential.

30 rounds had SD's of 18 with an ES of 80 fps!

50% of ammo had runout > .004" with as much as .013"! This is based on measuring 500 rounds.

So if FGMM is your base-line, you can only do better.

What will kill you with FGMM is SD's. With 5 shot groups, I average .5 MOA at 100 yards with FGMM. At 1,000 yards, you can't survive with Velocity SD's of 18. Using JBM, that is a drop differential for 2 Standard Deviations of 1.2 MOA! You add on the inherent accuracy of .5 MOA to 1.2 MOA, and you have almost 2 MOA right there.

And yes, most people can hold better than 2 MOA.

With an SD of 10, which is what most people target, you get a differential of .6 MOA with the same velocity. I get .4 MOA 5-shot groups with my handloads at 100, so that takes me down to about an MOA at 1,000. That is competitive.

FGMM is great, but it does not have the quality to cut the mustard for F-class. I can't imagine anyone coming close to a clean at 1,000 yards with it.

 

[YAOG]

Re: Dillon for match grade ammo

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Carter Mayfield</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is that a permanent part of your process? It looks like you charge, size, size, measure, seat. Is that right? </div></div>

I currently shoot a factory 5-R barreled action. While small groups are nice to look at my goal is to consistently hold 1MOA precision to 1K yards in good air. That said I use methods collected here & there and from a lot of shooting and reloading over the last 50 some years. With a stock factory chamber and barrel I see no good reason to get excessive so I limit my prep to no turn brass. I doubt this will change when my TacOps Kilo-51 shows up.

Based on what I have seen my reloading workflow is either very basic or very nuts depending on who you ask. The process can vary slightly depending on what I'm working on trying to improve. My reloading philosophy is pragmatic and very much about controlling ammunition quality through measurement and adjustment. I am sure you have heard the saying "measure twice press once and measure again before repeating the press operation a couple hundred times" or something like that. I run each process in batches of 100 cases at a time because it fits well time and bench space wise.

When I first got the Redding Instant Comparator while chasing down issues found while trying to use a 550 as a single stage press to load very high precision ammunition I used to measure a LOT. In fact I used a 100% audit rate after every step. After measuring many cases and finished rounds for a long time while I got used to the idea I realized checking every case was a total waste of time once a die station was adjusted to a particular rifle and ammo spec. The reason was once installed the Unique clamping Whidden floating toolhead and Unique Turbo Bearing for the shell plate yielded extremely consistent case and bullet measurements. But being paranoid and maybe crazy I kept doing it even though they were literally perfect.

For a while I used to do the same thing with my Hornady automatic powder dispenser auditing 10% of the charges with my trusty old RCBS 1010 scale only to find that they agree for 99.9% of the measured charges. So I gave up and just check everything initially during initial setup and maybe 5% of the time during loading.

Initial/first neck size & decap using Redding Competition bushing die no floating expander ball unless necks are not round
Clean cases in vibratory cleaner
Visual case inspection
Full length sizing & second neck sizing using Redding Type S neck & full length sizing die no expander
Measurement of shoulder at datum line using Redding Instant Comparator, 10% audit
Measurement of case neck diameter using digital calipers that read to 0.0005", 5% audit
Measure case length, if any cases exceed max spec trim entire batch using Redding 2400 trimmer
Clean cases in vibratory cleaner after last case die operation to remove lube and contaminants
Prime cases using Dillon 550
Scale powder, charge 100 cases in blocks using Hornady Autocharger calibrated before and verified after each 100 cases
Seat bullets to rifle spec using Redding Competition bullet seater
Measure ogive to verify within target spec for rifle using Redding Instant Comparator, 5% audit
Check TIR using Sinclair runout gauge mark rounds with TIR exceeding 0.0025" depending on use 100% to 5% audit
Box and label the ammo
Be happy!

 

[Shoottothrill]

Re: Dillon for match grade ammo

I will take a 1,000 rounds of .308 thanks Yoag. LOL

 

[YAOG]

Re: Dillon for match grade ammo

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 78steeler</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I will take a 1,000 rounds of .308 thanks Yoag. LOL </div></div>

It's kind of expensive even at $7.25 an hour.

 

[Rover31]

Re: Dillon for match grade ammo

I really like the idea of using a progressive as a match loader.
However, when I read how some of you here and on other sites use your Dillon I wonder why?
Why What you ask?
Well it is not being used as a progressive. I read how you are putting the brass in and out to do things (which are needed!). Why not use a single stage? seems like it would be less fiddle and less cost.

This is not meant as a negative but how many of you use it as a progresive? As in put a piece of brass in and around and around she goes till out comes a shooter. I see the huge benifits of weighing each powder charge which will slow you down but speed is not "really" the issue for me.
What I want is with one stroke I can do 4 things.

Thoughts from the "progressive pros"?
Thanks
T

 

[turbo54]

Re: Dillon for match grade ammo

Rover:

I can FLS 500 pcs of brass in 20-30 minutes, one handed, easily.

As far as I'm concerned, that's reason enough to use an auto-index case feeder equipped progressive.

 

[Rover31]

Re: Dillon for match grade ammo

That makes sense.
So just having the case feed allows for faster case sizing.
Nothing else is happening though correct?

I guess I want more happening for each pull of the handle.

I do see what you are gaining makes sense.
I am seeing advantages to the case fed progressive over a turret press.
T

 

[Sudden Impact]

Re: Dillon for match grade ammo

Logical question might be can you shoot more accurately than the reloader is capable of?

Most of us probably can't!

 

[68GT]

Re: Dillon for match grade ammo

as good as anything else, just much faster.

 

[BirdEyes]

Re: Dillon for match grade ammo

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sudden Impact</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Logical question might be can you shoot more accurately than the reloader is capable of?

Most of us probably can't! </div></div>

Excellent point. Far too many people try to 'buy' an ability rather than 'develop' one. Until your shooting ability is at a point where you can see a difference -and many things we do only make a little difference- there is little value taking the time and incurring the expense of doing so.

 

[Genius.]

Re: Dillon for match grade ammo

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rover31</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That makes sense.
So just having the case feed allows for faster case sizing.
Nothing else is happening though correct?

I guess I want more happening for each pull of the handle.

I do see what you are gaining makes sense.
I am seeing advantages to the case fed progressive over a turret press.
T </div></div>

I just sold my turret to fund a Dillon for a few reasons.
1: my primary reason is for handgun.
2: case prep for my rifle rounds with Dillons trimmer. Much quicker than hand trimming.

Speed for my match stuff will be nice, but more or less a after thought. That's why I asked the question.

When everything gets set up I will do side by side comparisons to find out for myself if the Dillon can do the job the CO/AX can do with MY shooting ability. I probably won't be able to tell a difference.

For me the Turret was a stepping stone, it was leaps and bounds better for .45acp than single stage, but it is time for me to upgrade. With 2 young kids I'd rather spend time with them than in the basement, that's where the Dillon will be fitting in.

 

[YAOG]

Re: Dillon for match grade ammo

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rover31</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I really like the idea of using a progressive as a match loader.
However, when I read how some of you here and on other sites use your Dillon I wonder why?
Why What you ask?
Well it is not being used as a progressive. I read how you are putting the brass in and out to do things (which are needed!). Why not use a single stage? seems like it would be less fiddle and less cost. </div></div>

The Dillon 550 gave me much more consistent results when it was kept moving with only a brief pause at the top of the stroke with brass in the dies. Without a powder measure to charge the cases this has been a problem and one of the reasons I broke the process down to running the 550 as a single stage press.

I have been extremely happy with what is coming out of my 550 used as a single stage press. Now that I have shot a several hundred of these very high precision rounds and know how they shoot I plan to see if I can use the 550 progressively. I just have to find a funnel die to drop my scaled charges into the cases without having to remove the cases from the press. The trick will be to see if I can maintain the extremely tight dimensional specs while running the Dillon progressively. It is all dependent on finding a powder die that will drop a scaled charge when the press ram is raised just as if I were using the regular Dillon powder measure which is not good enough for precision.

There is no fiddling with any of the dies once a toolhead is setup for a particular rifle. I'm just paranoid and verify random cases and loaded rounds during the loading process using the Redding Instant Comparator. But they pretty much all come out exactly (and I do mean EXACTLY) the same. Nobody with a single stage press has this level of control over their case and bullet ogive dimensions unless they have a second press to put a Redding Instant Comparator into. I just have the equivalent of 4 single stage presses that are always loaded with perfectly adjusted dies for a particular rifle in the space of a single press. Price it out, even a full boat Dillon 550 with the additional of a Unique clamping Whidden floating toolhead is cheaper than buying 4 top of the line single stage presses. If you buy a used Dillon 550 or a basic 550 press and add the auto priming system a Dillon 550 is even cheaper and the space savings is even bigger.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rover31</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is not meant as a negative but how many of you use it as a progresive? As in put a piece of brass in and around and around she goes till out comes a shooter. I see the huge benifits of weighing each powder charge which will slow you down but speed is not "really" the issue for me.
What I want is with one stroke I can do 4 things.

Thoughts from the "progressive pros"?
Thanks
T </div></div>

Some guys are using their Dillon 550s progressively with good results. I am not one of them but I plan to be at some point once I figure out how to get exactly the same results I get now running as a single stage but using the press in progressive fashion.

HTH!

 

[Xcount]

Re: Dillon for match grade ammo

I loaded all my ammo on a Dillon 550 while earning Distinguished Pistol shot and Distinguished Rifle badges. I guess there are many people on this website that don't consider those relevant awards but they are also the people that blame their bad shots on "bad" ammo.

Many a national title winner has used a Dillon, good luck trying to outshoot one. It ain't about the ammo.

 

[clmayfield]

Re: Dillon for match grade ammo

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BirdEyes</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sudden Impact</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Logical question might be can you shoot more accurately than the reloader is capable of?

Most of us probably can't! </div></div>

Excellent point. Far too many people try to 'buy' an ability rather than 'develop' one. Until your shooting ability is at a point where you can see a difference -and many things we do only make a little difference- there is little value taking the time and incurring the expense of doing so.</div></div>

I will refer again to my post in this thread. Using FGMM as a standard, which is generally considered the gold standard of factory match ammo, I think the average shooter can take advantage at long range, especially in regards to improving velocity variation.

Now when you get down to having perfectly concentric ammo (.0005" or less) versus pretty good ammo (.002" or less), yeah, you are getting down to differences that might not be discernible. I am the first to admit that I strive for perfect ammo because I am anal, but let's face it, there is room for good enough fast enough.

A lot of people point out that winners are people who don't spend a lot of time in the reloading room and spend it all on trigger time. For those, I would point out that David Tubb racked up more Camp Perry championships than anyone alive or dead and he is a constant tinkerer in the reloading room. Enough to create his own wildcat cartridge and build his own rifle (along with marketing his own meplat trimmer, etc.).

If reloading room time is truly taking away from reloading time, yes, you need to reanalyze your priorities. But there is plenty of room to do both. I do all of my reloading at home. For a time, my process was pretty slow and I would actually supplement my reloading with factory ammo because I could not load them fast enough. Now, I have that under control and I can turn them out as fast as I can shoot. This is a highly individualistic decision. But yeah, if you are reading this thread, you can probably build ammo that shoots as well as you do.

 

[raider1v1]

Re: Dillon for match grade ammo

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: biggenius29</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am getting a Dillon, mainly for 9mm and .45.

I am wondering if loading match grade stuff is possible on one for my rifle rounds. If so does the 550 or 650 have any advantages over the other?

For my handgun loads I don't need the auto index of the 650, I don't shoot enough to justify a case feeder and auto index. But, if a 650 will produce better ammo, I am willing to get one.

Or will both produce the same quality with a Whidden tool head? </div></div>

how do you define "match"? do you mean .25" ammo @100yds, sure not a problem. if you are trying to get to load .150" @100yds, that will be a bit harder but you can do it.

 

[raider1v1]

Re: Dillon for match grade ammo

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Xcount</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I loaded all my ammo on a Dillon 550 while earning Distinguished Pistol shot and Distinguished Rifle badges. I guess there are many people on this website that don't consider those relevant awards but they are also the people that blame their bad shots on "bad" ammo.

Many a national title winner has used a Dillon, good luck trying to outshoot one. It ain't about the ammo. </div></div>

its about the ammo, to a point. unless you are trying to win BR comps, then as long as the ammo is "good", as in within .1gr powder charges of each other .002 COAL, etc you will be fine.

 

[YAOG]

Re: Dillon for match grade ammo

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Xcount</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I loaded all my ammo on a Dillon 550 while earning Distinguished Pistol shot and Distinguished Rifle badges. I guess there are many people on this website that don't consider those relevant awards but they are also the people that blame their bad shots on "bad" ammo.

Many a national title winner has used a Dillon, good luck trying to outshoot one. It ain't about the ammo. </div></div>

I for one am impressed with these distinctions. If these distinctions were awarded during military service I applaud your dedication and thank you for your service. If the CMP awarded you these distinctions my favorable impressions are not diminished. Few people know this but in the 128 years or so that the Distingushed badges have been awarded there have only been about 12,364 of these badges awarded. I don't know how many shooters have a achieved the double distinction but based on the numbers there cannot be that maybe not even two hundred all together?

For handgun ammunition Dillon is the press to beat IMO. For precision rifle ammunition used at long range there is no doubt IMO a Dillon progressive needs some modifications and changes to the loading process to produce truly precision ammunition. At least this has been my own experience and I have owned and used a Dillon press continuously since before there was a Dillon 550.

I'm not saying you can't make and shoot at some distance with ammunition made on a straight up stock Dillon. I'm staying that I cannot produce high precision ammunition that is capable of MOA or better precision at ranges longer than about 600 yards on a straight up Dillon progressive press. Maybe you can but I cannot. While this may be good enough for blaster duty with a 5.56 or a 200-300 yard game shot with .308Win or .30-06 for true precision it is not even close. Of course YMMV.

 

[YAOG]

Re: Dillon for match grade ammo

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Raider1v1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">its about the ammo, to a point. unless you are trying to win BR comps, then as long as the ammo is "good", as in within .1gr powder charges of each other .002 COAL, etc you will be fine. </div></div>

IMO yes it is about how well the ammunition performs up to the point that the ammo no longer affects shot placement or score outcome. At this point I would say the ammo is good enough for that weapon and shooter but even a moderately good shooter with a good factory rifle will benefit from using better performing ammunition than most OTS match ammo can deliver. Obviously custom chambers reamed for a particular factory ammo will be the exception.

But your other point is not quite right. Even for a minimalist precision shooter like myself there is more to good shooting ammunition than just powder weight and COAL. Additionally COAL typically varies more than 0.002" as most serious reloaders use bullet ogive as the measurement to use when seating rifle bullets and even the best bullets have ogives that vary more than this. Interestingly enough this A.M. I measured a bunch of new .308Win Lapua match ammo and variations in case shoulder by up to 0.004", ogive varied by up to 0.003" and COAL ranged from 2.8010" to 2.8095.

 

[turbo54]

Re: Dillon for match grade ammo

YAOG, I made Master in F-TR cranking out ammo on a straight up stock D550 (weighing charges). I missed HM by .03%

 

[YAOG]

Re: Dillon for match grade ammo

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">YAOG, I made Master in F-TR cranking out ammo on a straight up stock D550 (weighing charges). I missed HM by .03% </div></div>

Well there you go now! You were cheating. Scaling your charges and not throwing them with the stock Dillon powder measure is not using a Dillon progressive straight up. But on another note that is darned good shooting for one of those crappy Dillon progressive presses that can't make good ammo. Haven't you heard you can't make good ammo on a Dillon. LOL!

 

[Mike_R]

Re: Dillon for match grade ammo

There are some tips for tweaking the dillons in both Zedikers handloading for competition and Tubb's the rifle shooter. As for 550 vs 650 i think it depends on your pistol shooting. I have 2 550s, got into uspsa over the summer and I am shooting 1k plus rounds a month. Starting to wish I had a 650 just for. 40.