Opinions on the correct caliber.

[jfields]

I would like to send 300 Berger OTMs at around 2850-2900 FPS. Is the .338 LM the right caliber for this? I don't think I can reach this speed with the 110BA that I am currently shooting. Cases are getting stuck at around 90 grains of Retumbo and that is only getting me about 2630 FPS.

I'd like to know what other long range shooters are getting.

Thanks,

Shaky

 

[Nostradumbass]

Re: Opinions on the correct caliber.

338 snipetac would probably be your best option. Although a 30" lapua might get the job done too.
I'm running a 24" lapua and getting 2625 fps with the 300gn Bergers with H1000

 

[jfields]

Re: Opinions on the correct caliber.

I guess I should try some H1000. I have a bunch of Retumbo and wanted to use that if at all possible. I really think that Savage chamber is funky and the barrel is is kind of slow. I've never seen a barrel foul as badly as this one.

Thanks!

 

[Lt. Arclight]

Re: Opinions on the correct caliber.

No way with a 338LM. You are absolutely pushing the case integrity.24"-no way. I got 27750 with 89 RL25 with a 30" schneider 1/9.3" twist on an AR30 (GAP chambered).Pretty much as much as I would load it.That was with a 3.610 COAL.

Longer tube or more case capacity. I agree, if you really need that much velocity,you need a Snipetac.If you can load LONG-even then the short barrel is a handicap.

 

[Jeffvn]

Re: Opinions on the correct caliber.

No way with the straight 338LM.

I am running 2,950 fps (w/ 300 gr SMKs) in my 338LM Improved (121 gr. H2O capacity). In Nevada, where I live, there is no need to step up to the case volume (165 gr H2O) of a Snipe Tac or 338/408. I'm running upwards of 2,100 ft alt., so I can't say what it will take to run 2,950 fps at sea level. It might take

Jeffvn

 

[George63]

Re: Opinions on the correct caliber.

you will not see that dramatic of a difference to make the change worth it until your current barrel is shot out-

and then if you are going to pay for a custom barrel you may want upgrade to a different action

that savage is a good value for a long range system, but there is always compromises

 

[desertHK]

Re: Opinions on the correct caliber.

My AIAX 338LM with a 27" barrel and 1:9.3" twist pushes the 300 OTM at 2785 and I am at the ceiling of the powder curve (RL25 @ 91.5 grains).

Like other have already mentioned, you will need to step up to get to range you want. How far are you planning to shoot ?

 

[wadcutter]

Re: Opinions on the correct caliber.

Single loaded a .338 Edge with long cut throat will get you to 2880 fps easy enough with a 300gn smk or Berger Hybrid.
93gn H1000 or 97gn Retumbo is what I'm using. COAL 4.108" with Berger Hybrid.

 

[leadbullet]

Re: Opinions on the correct caliber.

plus one for the 338 edge, 93 gr of H1000 in a 1-9.3 twist 28 inch barrel right at 2850fps.

 

[WyoJoe]

Re: Opinions on the correct caliber.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nostradumbass</div><div class="ubbcode-body">338 snipetac would probably be your best option. Although a 30" lapua might get the job done too.
I'm running a 24" lapua and getting 2625 fps with the 300gn Bergers with H1000 </div></div>

Ditto on the Snipetac. The only draw back is that it is a custom proposition from what I hear. I don't know of anyone that is offering the .338 Snipetac as a factory round. Not knowing what your budget it but you can look at Black Diamond rifles by Dave Viers. Heard good about him.

 

[jfields]

Re: Opinions on the correct caliber.

Where I currently shoot, I can get to 2,000 yards. I have shot the 110BA to 1 mile with fairly good success(50% hits), but the bullets are going transonic not long after that at 2650 muzzle velocity. That is with 88.5 grains of Retumbo. I have gotten 2850 FPS at the muzzle before with 94 grains of Retumbo. That was with virgin Lapua brass, and now anything over 88 grains sticks cases. I may send the gun back to Savage before I do anything else.

Thanks for all your responses.

-Shaky

 

[timelinex]

Re: Opinions on the correct caliber.

I'm surprised so many people don't think it can be done on the 338lm. I guess it really depends on yor particular barrel. I'm doing 92.8gr of retumbo in my 110ba and the 300gr Bergers are going 2805-2835(depending on the chrono used).

I'm not really pushing it either. The primers are just slightly flattening with this load, but no other signs of pressure. During development I used more powder and still didn't run into pressure problems.

My firiends 338 surgeon and his accuracy international cant go above 2780. Obviously every barrel is different, but I'm just saying it possible then.

I'm just wondering, why are you so worried about that last 100fps? Im in the 2800's but not on purpose, that's just where my accuracy node is. The 300gr Bergers are supposedly good through the transonic barrier, so it shouldn't matter much.

 

[timelinex]

Re: Opinions on the correct caliber.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shaky97</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Where I currently shoot, I can get to 2,000 yards. I have shot the 110BA to 1 mile with fairly good success(50% hits), but the bullets are going transonic not long after that at 2650 muzzle velocity. That is with 88.5 grains of Retumbo. I have gotten 2850 FPS at the muzzle before with 94 grains of Retumbo. That was with virgin Lapua brass, and now anything over 88 grains sticks cases. I may send the gun back to Savage before I do anything else.

Thanks for all your responses.

-Shaky </div></div>

Are you full sizing the cases? Try full sizing the 1x cases , if you aren't already, and see if the pressure problems are still there.


Also make sure to trim the brass, as I have read some 110ba's need the brass all the way at the minimum or else they show pressure problems. If all else fails, you might be putting in too much neck tension compared to the new brass which has the necks presized.

Lastly, are you remeasuring the length of the finished round to make sure you are seating to the correct OAL. I have found new brass and 1x fired brass require different adjustments on the seating die , to achieve the same OAL. If you have not checked this, you may be jamming the bullet too far into the lands.

 

[jfields]

Re: Opinions on the correct caliber.

Thanks, Timelinex.

I full length size each time with a Redding Die. I have trimmed the cases back to .005 below book minimum and have even turned the necks down from .015 to .013. I measure each completed round for COAL and runout. I measure each charge on Redding beam scale. I'm not sure what I have done, but it seems like I screwed something up along the way. I wonder if my chamber could have fouled and is causing some of these problems.

-Shaky

 

[timelinex]

Re: Opinions on the correct caliber.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shaky97</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks, Timelinex.

I full length size each time with a Redding Die. I have trimmed the cases back to .005 below book minimum and have even turned the necks down from .015 to .013. I measure each completed round for COAL and runout. I measure each charge on Redding beam scale. I'm not sure what I have done, but it seems like I screwed something up along the way. I wonder if my chamber could have fouled and is causing some of these problems.

-Shaky </div></div>
hmmmm thats weird. Seems like you have done it all to insure the cartridges are good.

I usually go 150+ rounds between cleanings, so unless you have ALOT of rounds through it, I doubt your chamber is too dirty. Are there any blatant marks on the rounds after you extract?

I don't know why it would be a problem with the actual rifle, if the new brass works just fine.

I know people say to bump shoulders back .002" but maybe try bumping the shoulders back all the way to what they were on the new brass. If I remember correctly, that would of been like .006" for my rifle. Not sure why that would effect it, but it helps rule out anything that makes the 1x fired different than the virgin brass.

Also, I still think trying less neck tension might help. I had issues with HSM brass that I was using, and I noticed that most pressure problems went away after I used a larger bushing.

 

[SPAK]

Re: Opinions on the correct caliber.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shaky97</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks, Timelinex.

I full length size each time with a Redding Die. I have trimmed the cases back to .005 below book minimum and have even turned the necks down from .015 to .013. I measure each completed round for COAL and runout. I measure each charge on Redding beam scale. I'm not sure what I have done, but it seems like I screwed something up along the way. I wonder if my chamber could have fouled and is causing some of these problems.

-Shaky </div></div>

How many rounds do you have through this rifle? How often are you full length sizing? When you say the case sticks is the bolt lift heavy or are you having difficulty pulling the bolt back after the bolt lift??

Do your cases stick with new brass or only fired brass with charges over 88gr??

 

[steve123]

Re: Opinions on the correct caliber.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shaky97</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would like to send 300 Berger OTMs at around 2850-2900 FPS. Is the .338 LM the right caliber for this? I don't think I can reach this speed with the 110BA that I am currently shooting. Cases are getting stuck at around 90 grains of Retumbo and that is only getting me about 2630 FPS.

I'd like to know what other long range shooters are getting.

Thanks,

Shaky </div></div>

Just throwing a comment out there but a 340 Weatherby throated out with a longer barrel should reach your desired velocity easily.

 

[jfields]

Re: Opinions on the correct caliber.



[/quote]How many rounds do you have through this rifle? How often are you full length sizing? When you say the case sticks is the bolt lift heavy or are you having difficulty pulling the bolt back after the bolt lift??

Do your cases stick with new brass or only fired brass with charges over 88gr?? [/quote]

I have almost 200 rounds through the rifle. I full length resize every time. When a case sticks, bolt lift is very heavy, but the bolt pulls back easily. Cases did not stick as often on new brass. Now, any charge over 88 grains of Retumbo will stick the case.

I was using a different lot of Retumbo when the cases were new. I wonder if this lot is hotter?

 

[Goin'Hot]

Re: Opinions on the correct caliber.

If you're wanting to revamp your caliber, take a look at the 300NM or 300NM Imp launching the 230 Bergers. The OTM has a G1 BC of 0.719 and the Target has a G1 BC of 0.743.

I'm getting 3050 out of my 40° Imp Norma Mag which goes subsonic at 1850 yards at 950' altitude. I had a 338 Edge pushing the 300 SMK's at 2890 and the recoil difference between the 300 and 230's is substantial. I really like the 230's. They have transitioned well for me shooting past a mile.

If you want to keep with the LM case, look at necking it down to a 30/338 LM for the same effect. Run a 30 - 32" barrel and you're set. All you need is a new barrel and a set of dies!

 

[SPAK]

Re: Opinions on the correct caliber.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shaky97</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

</div></div>How many rounds do you have through this rifle? How often are you full length sizing? When you say the case sticks is the bolt lift heavy or are you having difficulty pulling the bolt back after the bolt lift??

Do your cases stick with new brass or only fired brass with charges over 88gr?? [/quote]

I have almost 200 rounds through the rifle. I full length resize every time. When a case sticks, bolt lift is very heavy, but the bolt pulls back easily. Cases did not stick as often on new brass. Now, any charge over 88 grains of Retumbo will stick the case.

I was using a different lot of Retumbo when the cases were new. I wonder if this lot is hotter? [/quote]


I know you said your full length sizing every time... How much are you pushing the shoulders back? When you close the bolt on a loaded round (not a new case) do you feel any resistance or does it close really easily??

 

[timelinex]

Re: Opinions on the correct caliber.

woah woah, you said new lot of retumbo... Thats a big deal. I have never personally experienced it, but its well known that new lots of powder can change things significantly....

 

[SPAK]

Re: Opinions on the correct caliber.

Another question how many firings on the brass before you start having the problms with pressure? 1x fired? 2-4x fired?? I agree a really hot lot of retumbo could be your cause but I would expect your velocities to be higher than what your getting at 2630fps.... How long is your barrel????

Regarding your pressure issues, I'm wondering if you're not actually bumping the shoulders back enough causing an insufficient headspace. Upon firing yiur brass will expand to meet the chamber but won't have any room to springback to a smaller dimension than the chamber...hence the heavy bolt lift. An easy way to test this is take a new piece of brass and chamber it. Note how it feels when you close the bolt. It should feel like closing the bolt in an empty chamber. Now take a fired case and chamber it. If you feel any resistance you need to bump the shoulders back. A very slight resistance is ok but too much and you will have what will qppear as excessive pressure problems. You want to adjust your full length sizing die to size a fired case just past that resistance point so the bolt will close easily but not as easy as an empty chamber if that makes sense.

This is just a guess at best... If your sizing technique is correct and you still have problems thn I would have a smith or savage take a look at it...

 

[jfields]

Re: Opinions on the correct caliber.

My barrel is 26". When I started having these issues, I moved the shoulder back .006, which was right at what new Lapua brass measures. I also trimmed back to below book minimum. The Hodgden manual has 94 grains of retumbo as max, and that is the same as Quickload is giving me. I am going to remeasure the water capacity on these cases tonight. Quickload says to measure fired, unsized cases. I have measures a dozen cases and they were all within a few tents of 115 grains water capacity. That was puzzling, because QL has the default case capacity at 108 grains.

I am also borrowing a friends .338 to test some of these loads in his gun. That should tell me if it is my loading or the gun that is giving me fits.