Sidearms & Scatterguns First 1911, need a little help with a jam.

[jwsnydes]

I need a little help from some of you 1911 guys. I just bought my first 1911 a Sig Scorpion 5in bbl. I've owned and shot around a dozen pistols in all calibers, but I'm having trouble out of the gate here with something I've never seen.

I took it right to the range, loaded up the two mags, eight rounds each of some Hornady 230 gr +P Tap FPD, and it went bang then click.

In 20 rounds of 230gr Tap and 40 of Winchester 230gr FMJ range ammo, I had 5 stoppages, all of them identical to the two pictures below. Both are two live rounds jamming together, the fired round has been ejected before the jam occurres.

Pictures below (one with TAP one with the rage ammo). Some were mid magazine, both mags jammed the same.

I really want to like this gun, can someone enlighten me here. Thanks!

 

[AlabamaShooter]

Re: First 1911, need a little help with a jam.

Have you tried a non factory magazine? Other than that I have no clue.

 

[sinister]

Re: First 1911, need a little help with a jam.

Weak extractor tension is not holding the base of the case against the breech face of the slide during the feeding phase of the loading cycle.

 

[jwsnydes]

Re: First 1911, need a little help with a jam.

The extractor doesn't look like it has even come in contact with the round being fed yet.

Also if I ride the slide down after from the locked open position, on an empty or loaded magazine, it gets held up and gets stuck. If I depress the mag release it slams shut the rest of the way. Or if I put slight pressure on the rear of the slide it snaps closed. Is it possible the mags feed lips are blocking the normal cycling?

 

[Adam B]

Re: First 1911, need a little help with a jam.

the external extractors seem to be problematic, I would look at replacing the spring that provides tension to the external extractor, same as the previous sinister stated

 

[ShtrRdy]

Re: First 1911, need a little help with a jam.

The fact that there's a live round starting into the chamber, and the slide is trying to push a live round out of the magazine, I'm thinking that a round is sliding out of the magazine during recoil. Is it possible you have a light hold on the gun when this happens?

 

[jwsnydes]

Re: First 1911, need a little help with a jam.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ShtrRdy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The fact that there's a live round starting into the chamber, and the slide is trying to push a live round out of the magazine, I'm thinking that a round is sliding out of the magazine during recoil. Is it possible you have a light hold on the gun when this happens? </div></div>

I'm pretty sure that I have a rock solid grip on the gun. I own other 45s and have never had issues.

I did notice that the mags are very prone to flipping rounds almost straight up and unless completely seated they flop out. I wasn't sure if this was a part of the 1911 feeding. This is completely different than my M&P, Glock, HK and other Sig in the way the rounds are held in the magazine.

 

[RADcustom]

Re: First 1911, need a little help with a jam.

I would start with the mag.

 

[P Henry]

Re: First 1911, need a little help with a jam.

It could be several things. Rather than mess with it trying to find the "one," I'd call SIG and send it back. They will fix it.

 

[jwsnydes]

Re: First 1911, need a little help with a jam.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RADcustom</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would start with the mag. </div></div>
I am really thinking this is the issue, or at least, an issue. Through some further googling, I found a few other models that people had similar problems, people seemed to think mags on them also.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: P Henry</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It could be several things. Rather than mess with it trying to find the "one," I'd call SIG and send it back. They will fix it. </div></div>

THe store I bought it from offers a no questions asked return policy, but if this is just a mag issue, I don't want to send it back yet.

 

[Strive4More]

Re: First 1911, need a little help with a jam.

Pick up a wilson ETM or a good mcCormick and try em out. I have nary heard any issue from either of those.

 

[KYpatriot]

Re: First 1911, need a little help with a jam.

My GUESS is that the mag feed lips are out of adjustment allowing a round to jump out and follow when the top one is stripped off.

Extractor tension is critical in a 1911, along with action timing and a few other tolerances. Which is why I gave them up for ugly pieces of plastic that always go bang. I know that doesn't help much but I have a love-hate relationship with 1911s. I lust for them when I dont have em then I buy em and pretty soon I hate em again.

 

[jwsnydes]

Re: First 1911, need a little help with a jam.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYpatriot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My GUESS is that the mag feed lips are out of adjustment allowing a round to jump out and follow when the top one is stripped off.

Extractor tension is critical in a 1911, along with action timing and a few other tolerances. Which is why I gave them up for ugly pieces of plastic that always go bang. I know that doesn't help much but I have a love-hate relationship with 1911s. I lust for them when I dont have em then I buy em and pretty soon I hate em again. </div></div>

I ordered two Wilson ETM mags, they should be here in a few days. In the meantime I picked up the previous generation of Wilson mag that was in stock (47DE), my gunstore had one. I took it to the range and shot 100 rounds. What an improvement! I had only one issue the whole time out of the 100.

The issue was with 230gr federal range ammo. On the last round of the mag, it failed to feed completely, with the round tilted up it seemed to catch the gap between the bullet and the brass on the lip above the barrel. I think I am going to chalk that up to it still breaking in and maybe polish the ramps.

Lesson: The Gun is GREAT, but the Sig mags aren't. They had a near 'Y' shape to the feed lips. The Wilson Mag seemed to clear up nearly everything.

 

[KYpatriot]

Re: First 1911, need a little help with a jam.

Glad to hear it. One thing I have noticed after buying and shooting lots of bulk ammo is that sometimes the OAL of the bulk rounds can be out of spec, usually too long. I have noticed this especially in 45acp Winchester white box.

 

[jwsnydes]

Re: First 1911, need a little help with a jam.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYpatriot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Glad to hear it. One thing I have noticed after buying and shooting lots of bulk ammo is that sometimes the OAL of the bulk rounds can be out of spec, usually too long. I have noticed this especially in 45acp Winchester white box. </div></div>

That is what I was shooting. I'll have to do some serious looking around different brands of ammo. This is a far departure from my Glock.

 

[cmh2007]

Re: First 1911, need a little help with a jam.

check your magazine spring tension...if its weak it can cause the shell to jump under recoil and by the time the slide starts forward, the next shell is in place to start into the chamber thus causing double feed

 

[milo 2.0]

Re: First 1911, need a little help with a jam.

I think the mag might have something to do with it too.
But it could also be too light of a recoil spring, violent blowback, and coming back too fast, 18lb for full house loads like this. Also limp wristing a 1911 will cause a shitload of problems, like this.
I'll admit I'm no expert, but I don't buy the extractor causing the problem.

 

[jwsnydes]

Re: First 1911, need a little help with a jam.

Wilson mag fixed it. The extractor doesn't seem to have anything to do with it.

 

[LawnMM]

Re: First 1911, need a little help with a jam.

Most 1911 jams are mag related. Chip McCormick mags are good on a budget, if you want the best... Tripp Research Cobra mags.

I think you have a week spring in the factory mags, they aren't pushing the round up so the extractor can grab the rim of the next case so the round is getting stripped but not into battery properly. That new mags fixed it all but confirms the mag spring issue.

You spent a good 800-1200 on a new 1911,don't cheap out on mags!