what the heck is causing bullet runout on my 30-06? and not on 308? dies , bullets, brass ? or should i just get a hornady concentricity gauge to fix the prob?
- Thread starter savagehunter44
- Start date
Re: bullet runout ?
Often times it is how your resizing or seating die is installed in the press. You need to consider how course the threads are on the die body and jam nut which can contribute to runnout. One trick is to take a flat machined washer or stack feeler guages and put them between the ram/shell plate and the bottom of the die body (you will need to remove decaping pin assembly). Next, put some pressure on the press arm which will true up the die in the press and then tighten the jamb nut. When your done, load a round or two and measure concentricity and see what happens. You can also purchase the Forster split clamp style nuts which clamp on the die body vs jam style, these will do a similar job as the method I described.
Most concentricity guages will not fix any issues you have, it will just let you know you have a problem.
Kirk R
Often times it is how your resizing or seating die is installed in the press. You need to consider how course the threads are on the die body and jam nut which can contribute to runnout. One trick is to take a flat machined washer or stack feeler guages and put them between the ram/shell plate and the bottom of the die body (you will need to remove decaping pin assembly). Next, put some pressure on the press arm which will true up the die in the press and then tighten the jamb nut. When your done, load a round or two and measure concentricity and see what happens. You can also purchase the Forster split clamp style nuts which clamp on the die body vs jam style, these will do a similar job as the method I described.
Most concentricity guages will not fix any issues you have, it will just let you know you have a problem.
Kirk R
Re: bullet runout ?
Lots of causes. Dies out off plumb, press the same, neck tension, neck concentricity, seating die quality, debris (powder residue) inside neck, case holder, so on ad infinitum. I like to eliminate one thing at a time, starting with the less expensive.
Lots of causes. Dies out off plumb, press the same, neck tension, neck concentricity, seating die quality, debris (powder residue) inside neck, case holder, so on ad infinitum. I like to eliminate one thing at a time, starting with the less expensive.
Re: bullet runout ?
i use a machined washer every time, and clean case necks good. someone said it could be some brass is weaker than others . is that true ?
i use a machined washer every time, and clean case necks good. someone said it could be some brass is weaker than others . is that true ?
Re: bullet runout ?
My runout problems significantly decreased when I switched to Redding Competition bushing and seater.
My runout problems significantly decreased when I switched to Redding Competition bushing and seater.
Re: bullet runout ?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: savagehunter44</div><div class="ubbcode-body">has anyone used the hornady concentricity gauge </div></div>
I use one and it will definitely correct the runout although many feel that it introduces inconsistent neck tension when you start pushing the bullet around. I generally only correct ammo that is .004 or greater and thankfully 9 out of 10 rounds coming off my SS is .003 or less.
Having said that, a couple weekends back I took 20 rounds of ammo that had very little runout and compared it to the worst that has come off my press. All pulled bullets with runout as high as .008 in the bad ammo box. Shooting 6" steel out to 500 yards the hits on target with the "bad" ammo looked almost the same as the "good" ammo. I had 2 pretty bad misses out of 20 rounds of the "bad" but I'm chalking that up to shooter error. Most of it shot so good I had to double check what was in my mags.
Since I bought the gauge I'll probably still check any match ammo I shoot but I know now that even the bad ammo shoots better than I do.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: savagehunter44</div><div class="ubbcode-body">has anyone used the hornady concentricity gauge </div></div>
I use one and it will definitely correct the runout although many feel that it introduces inconsistent neck tension when you start pushing the bullet around. I generally only correct ammo that is .004 or greater and thankfully 9 out of 10 rounds coming off my SS is .003 or less.
Having said that, a couple weekends back I took 20 rounds of ammo that had very little runout and compared it to the worst that has come off my press. All pulled bullets with runout as high as .008 in the bad ammo box. Shooting 6" steel out to 500 yards the hits on target with the "bad" ammo looked almost the same as the "good" ammo. I had 2 pretty bad misses out of 20 rounds of the "bad" but I'm chalking that up to shooter error. Most of it shot so good I had to double check what was in my mags.
Since I bought the gauge I'll probably still check any match ammo I shoot but I know now that even the bad ammo shoots better than I do.
Re: bullet runout ?
I have been doing this for years. Can't remember not doing it but I do believe that it won't hurt anything, just don't know how much it helps.
The advice you got to use quality dies that support the entire case during seating will probably help you the most.
When I seat bullets, I always turn the case twice. ie Seat the bullet 1/3 of the way, lower ram, twist case 1/3, seat the bullet second third of the way, and repeat, seating the bullet on the third time to it's predetermined COAL.
I have been doing this for years. Can't remember not doing it but I do believe that it won't hurt anything, just don't know how much it helps.
The advice you got to use quality dies that support the entire case during seating will probably help you the most.
When I seat bullets, I always turn the case twice. ie Seat the bullet 1/3 of the way, lower ram, twist case 1/3, seat the bullet second third of the way, and repeat, seating the bullet on the third time to it's predetermined COAL.
Re: bullet runout ?
I own one and have used it. It can correct some runout, but it's not a particularly scientific process nor a particularly accurate tool.
I found it takes practice to identify the correct spot to start applying pressure and then practice on how much pressure to add with the screw.
Even then, I was often just wiggling the bullet back and forth getting it to a low runout and loosening the neck tension in the process.
Not worth the time in my opinion.
I own one and have used it. It can correct some runout, but it's not a particularly scientific process nor a particularly accurate tool.
I found it takes practice to identify the correct spot to start applying pressure and then practice on how much pressure to add with the screw.
Even then, I was often just wiggling the bullet back and forth getting it to a low runout and loosening the neck tension in the process.
Not worth the time in my opinion.
Re: bullet runout ?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: savagehunter44</div><div class="ubbcode-body">what the heck is causing bullet runout on my 30-06? and not on 308? dies , bullets, brass ? or should i just get a hornady concentricity gauge to fix the prob?</div></div>
Issues I found - brass that needed annealing, crap seating die, not enough chamfer on the inside of the neck (!!).
As suggested above you need a gauge to measure runout at each stage of the process then you know what to focus on. Buying a gauge improved the quality of my reloads hugely. Never mind straightening the round build it straight to start with
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: savagehunter44</div><div class="ubbcode-body">what the heck is causing bullet runout on my 30-06? and not on 308? dies , bullets, brass ? or should i just get a hornady concentricity gauge to fix the prob?</div></div>
Issues I found - brass that needed annealing, crap seating die, not enough chamfer on the inside of the neck (!!).
As suggested above you need a gauge to measure runout at each stage of the process then you know what to focus on. Buying a gauge improved the quality of my reloads hugely. Never mind straightening the round build it straight to start with
Re: bullet runout ?
Many times concentricity problems boil down to the expander plug or variances in neck wall thickness. Improper lubrication of the inside of the necks will also cause the problem. Try running the cases without the expander and check concentricity. If they are concentric, the problem is probably with the expander. Check the expander for rough edges and/or burrs and polish it with some 600 grit paper. You can also replace the plug with a carbide ball that floats in the stem. I have installed O rings on my stem between the die and the lock ring which allows the stem to float.
If the cases are not concentric using the procedure above then you either have a die alignment issue or case neck thickness variation significant enough to cause the problem. Take a case with a uniform neck thickness and FL size with expander and check for concentricity. If not concentric you have a die alignment issue and refer to the posts above. The key is to isolate one variable at a time. If the problem is related to variation in neck wall thickness there is no cure from a practical standpoint and best to cull the brass or use it for plinking.
Many times concentricity problems boil down to the expander plug or variances in neck wall thickness. Improper lubrication of the inside of the necks will also cause the problem. Try running the cases without the expander and check concentricity. If they are concentric, the problem is probably with the expander. Check the expander for rough edges and/or burrs and polish it with some 600 grit paper. You can also replace the plug with a carbide ball that floats in the stem. I have installed O rings on my stem between the die and the lock ring which allows the stem to float.
If the cases are not concentric using the procedure above then you either have a die alignment issue or case neck thickness variation significant enough to cause the problem. Take a case with a uniform neck thickness and FL size with expander and check for concentricity. If not concentric you have a die alignment issue and refer to the posts above. The key is to isolate one variable at a time. If the problem is related to variation in neck wall thickness there is no cure from a practical standpoint and best to cull the brass or use it for plinking.
