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Re: optimal barrel length
26" is optimal IMO
26" is optimal IMO
Re: optimal barrel length
I'm going to watch this one closely. I'm about to rebarrel my 7RemMag and am considering the exact same question. I am leaning towards 24" setup to run the Berger 180 hybrids.
I'm going to watch this one closely. I'm about to rebarrel my 7RemMag and am considering the exact same question. I am leaning towards 24" setup to run the Berger 180 hybrids.
Re: optimal barrel length
30" will give you best velocity. But, usually that costs you extra get that long of a barrel.
I think of it this way, every inch below that you cut off you're giving up free horsepower. If you don't have to remove it, I wouldn't. If it makes sense from other angles, i.e. handling then cut it to what you need. Even down to 20". In those situations extra velocity isn't going to matter. So long as you know your dope out to however far you expect to shoot. IMO, the Bergers are outstanding bullets to shoot long range with.
30" will give you best velocity. But, usually that costs you extra get that long of a barrel.
I think of it this way, every inch below that you cut off you're giving up free horsepower. If you don't have to remove it, I wouldn't. If it makes sense from other angles, i.e. handling then cut it to what you need. Even down to 20". In those situations extra velocity isn't going to matter. So long as you know your dope out to however far you expect to shoot. IMO, the Bergers are outstanding bullets to shoot long range with.
Re: optimal barrel length
Give this a good read.
http://www.tacticaloperations.com/swatdec2000/index.html
Give this a good read.
http://www.tacticaloperations.com/swatdec2000/index.html
Re: optimal barrel length
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Captain Kirk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">26" is optimal IMO </div></div>
+1 for 26".
Regards,
Paul
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Captain Kirk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">26" is optimal IMO </div></div>
+1 for 26".
Regards,
Paul
Re: optimal barrel length
It is a interesting read, but it doesnt tell you everything about barrel length shortening and loss of velocity. In their example of the 300WM with 26" starting barrel length it didnt loose velocity until it was cut down to 22" using 190gr FGGM, that is with that given load. With different powders you could achive higher velocities shooting heavier bullets with a 26" vs a 22".
My 300WM load uses a 210gr Berger with RE22 @ 3090 fps out of a 26" bbl, you would not be able to push the above load to the same velocity with a 22" vs a 26" without increasing the load and running at dangerously high pressures.
Its give and take, if you want to push the heavy 30 cal bullets out of the 300WM and get the most out of it, I'd go 26"
Kirk R
It is a interesting read, but it doesnt tell you everything about barrel length shortening and loss of velocity. In their example of the 300WM with 26" starting barrel length it didnt loose velocity until it was cut down to 22" using 190gr FGGM, that is with that given load. With different powders you could achive higher velocities shooting heavier bullets with a 26" vs a 22".
My 300WM load uses a 210gr Berger with RE22 @ 3090 fps out of a 26" bbl, you would not be able to push the above load to the same velocity with a 22" vs a 26" without increasing the load and running at dangerously high pressures.
Its give and take, if you want to push the heavy 30 cal bullets out of the 300WM and get the most out of it, I'd go 26"
Kirk R
Re: optimal barrel length
IMO although a 22 inch barrel has a loss of velocity, the little loss of velocity can be redeemed by finding a hotter load or lighter bullet. Keeping a little weight down and keeping it a bit shorter, and thus more convenient is my way of thinkin.
IMO although a 22 inch barrel has a loss of velocity, the little loss of velocity can be redeemed by finding a hotter load or lighter bullet. Keeping a little weight down and keeping it a bit shorter, and thus more convenient is my way of thinkin.
Re: optimal barrel length
with either one of the two cartridges mentioned, you're not looking for a short barreled rifle. If that were the case, you'd be looking at a 308.
There is no reason to develop a hotter load or work on a special powder/bullet combo that will get you OTS setup with a standard bbl length.
More convenient? It's a 300 or 7mm mag, nothing convenient about either one of those two cartridges. Extra weight savings, yea, that's a joke. The finished weight difference between something like a 20" and 26" is small when compared to the entire weight of the shooting system.
with either one of the two cartridges mentioned, you're not looking for a short barreled rifle. If that were the case, you'd be looking at a 308.
There is no reason to develop a hotter load or work on a special powder/bullet combo that will get you OTS setup with a standard bbl length.
More convenient? It's a 300 or 7mm mag, nothing convenient about either one of those two cartridges. Extra weight savings, yea, that's a joke. The finished weight difference between something like a 20" and 26" is small when compared to the entire weight of the shooting system.
Re: optimal barrel length
i ordered a 28inch+ muzzle break in a M24 countour in 300 win....remember velocity kills, I=MV^2 velocity being squared.... that being said the barrel it self will be 8+ lbs....now granted this is going to be a hunting rig and im 6'3 230+ lbs.... a 14lb hunting rifle for me is nothing... my hunting rifle at work is heavier than that... you guys are all arguing about how short barrel is easier to move around... if your running a 300 winmag why the hell are you running around?.. the 300 win is a distance round... and if your target by chance is running you either did something wrong or were too impatient to wait for the right shot....
in short +1 for long barrel
and +1 for berger esp 210 gr with a BC of over .6
thats all just IMO
i ordered a 28inch+ muzzle break in a M24 countour in 300 win....remember velocity kills, I=MV^2 velocity being squared.... that being said the barrel it self will be 8+ lbs....now granted this is going to be a hunting rig and im 6'3 230+ lbs.... a 14lb hunting rifle for me is nothing... my hunting rifle at work is heavier than that... you guys are all arguing about how short barrel is easier to move around... if your running a 300 winmag why the hell are you running around?.. the 300 win is a distance round... and if your target by chance is running you either did something wrong or were too impatient to wait for the right shot....
in short +1 for long barrel
and +1 for berger esp 210 gr with a BC of over .6
thats all just IMO
Re: optimal barrel length
Bang-0n, -hickster.
Using a short barrel with an overbore chambering is like riding a racing bike with the seat set 6" too low. Muzzle blast and noise galore, with less velocity than the case is capable of for dessert. I am 6" 5", and I don't carry long guns in the field much. As you say, they are not for short range.
Greg
Bang-0n, -hickster.
Using a short barrel with an overbore chambering is like riding a racing bike with the seat set 6" too low. Muzzle blast and noise galore, with less velocity than the case is capable of for dessert. I am 6" 5", and I don't carry long guns in the field much. As you say, they are not for short range.
Greg
Re: optimal barrel length
I know, I was brought up the same way. (More barrel =more velocity) But I have a few Custom builds and the tube makes all the difference in the world. But.... I will tell you this. I shoot the 24" 5R and the 20" with the exact load (45g varget at 2.810 with 175's and the 46 gr with the 168's.) We have had many a person read the Chrono, and just scratch their head. "4 more inches should be higher vel." Most say "I don't get this, your pullin a trick" But the 24" is shooting on average 35-40fps faster! Why no more? I dunno. I don't load for velocity, I load for accuracy, and sometimes it's a happy coincidence that both intercede. It also has to do with the cartridge as well, like the 6.8 shooting about the same in 16" as 20". All I know is I will be doing this in a test on my 260 build, or my 243, and cut 1" off and shoot a string. I talked with Tac Ops, and they said they see no reason to heft around a 26" gun when you can get the same results with a 20", and they even prefer 18".
I know, I was brought up the same way. (More barrel =more velocity) But I have a few Custom builds and the tube makes all the difference in the world. But.... I will tell you this. I shoot the 24" 5R and the 20" with the exact load (45g varget at 2.810 with 175's and the 46 gr with the 168's.) We have had many a person read the Chrono, and just scratch their head. "4 more inches should be higher vel." Most say "I don't get this, your pullin a trick" But the 24" is shooting on average 35-40fps faster! Why no more? I dunno. I don't load for velocity, I load for accuracy, and sometimes it's a happy coincidence that both intercede. It also has to do with the cartridge as well, like the 6.8 shooting about the same in 16" as 20". All I know is I will be doing this in a test on my 260 build, or my 243, and cut 1" off and shoot a string. I talked with Tac Ops, and they said they see no reason to heft around a 26" gun when you can get the same results with a 20", and they even prefer 18".
Re: optimal barrel length
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: groundhogbuster</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I know, I was brought up the same way. (More barrel =more velocity) But I have a few Custom builds and the tube makes all the difference in the world. But.... I will tell you this. I shoot the 24" 5R and the 20" with the exact load (45g varget at 2.810 with 175's and the 46 gr with the 168's.) We have had many a person read the Chrono, and just scratch their head. "4 more inches should be higher vel." Most say "I don't get this, your pullin a trick" But the 24" is shooting on average 35-40fps faster! Why no more? I dunno. I don't load for velocity, I load for accuracy, and sometimes it's a happy coincidence that both intercede. It also has to do with the cartridge as well, like the 6.8 shooting about the same in 16" as 20". All I know is I will be doing this in a test on my 260 build, or my 243, and cut 1" off and shoot a string. I talked with Tac Ops, and they said they see no reason to heft around a 26" gun when you can get the same results with a 20", and they even prefer 18". </div></div>
I have seen similar results with the 308, crazy stuff. We are talking about the 300WM which when shooting the heavier bullets (200gr +) and slower burning powders like H1000 or RE25 you would loose much more velocity than 35-40 fps by cutting 4" off your barrel, and as Greg mentioned muzzle blast would be another factor.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: groundhogbuster</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I know, I was brought up the same way. (More barrel =more velocity) But I have a few Custom builds and the tube makes all the difference in the world. But.... I will tell you this. I shoot the 24" 5R and the 20" with the exact load (45g varget at 2.810 with 175's and the 46 gr with the 168's.) We have had many a person read the Chrono, and just scratch their head. "4 more inches should be higher vel." Most say "I don't get this, your pullin a trick" But the 24" is shooting on average 35-40fps faster! Why no more? I dunno. I don't load for velocity, I load for accuracy, and sometimes it's a happy coincidence that both intercede. It also has to do with the cartridge as well, like the 6.8 shooting about the same in 16" as 20". All I know is I will be doing this in a test on my 260 build, or my 243, and cut 1" off and shoot a string. I talked with Tac Ops, and they said they see no reason to heft around a 26" gun when you can get the same results with a 20", and they even prefer 18". </div></div>
I have seen similar results with the 308, crazy stuff. We are talking about the 300WM which when shooting the heavier bullets (200gr +) and slower burning powders like H1000 or RE25 you would loose much more velocity than 35-40 fps by cutting 4" off your barrel, and as Greg mentioned muzzle blast would be another factor.
Re: optimal barrel length
26" at bare minimum a 28" is a good compromise and 30" would be perfect, if you don't care that much about muzzle velocity get a 20" 308 instead.
Cheers.
26" at bare minimum a 28" is a good compromise and 30" would be perfect, if you don't care that much about muzzle velocity get a 20" 308 instead.
Cheers.
Re: optimal barrel length
wait let me get this right... some of you are saying you will put a short barrel on a magnum ???? please if your going to waist the powder, put it in containers and ill PM you my address......just saying
wait let me get this right... some of you are saying you will put a short barrel on a magnum ???? please if your going to waist the powder, put it in containers and ill PM you my address......just saying
Re: optimal barrel length
Groundhogbuster- Varget? It makes sense that you achieve the same velocity in the short bbl...that's what it was designed for. Interestingly enough, if you put it in a longer bbl, you don't get any significant velocity gains...
300mag in contrast as a considerable more volume of powder to burn..don't know how well will do in a mag, don't think you can and stay within safe pressures
crap guys...now you've got me thinking of a 300 build again. Well the good thing is my wife could get the 08 (she likes that one) but knowing her, she'd shoot the 300 and want it...along with my custom .40
hint...never a good idea to marry a woman that loves to shoot, it's very expensive
Groundhogbuster- Varget? It makes sense that you achieve the same velocity in the short bbl...that's what it was designed for. Interestingly enough, if you put it in a longer bbl, you don't get any significant velocity gains...
300mag in contrast as a considerable more volume of powder to burn..don't know how well will do in a mag, don't think you can and stay within safe pressures
crap guys...now you've got me thinking of a 300 build again. Well the good thing is my wife could get the 08 (she likes that one) but knowing her, she'd shoot the 300 and want it...along with my custom .40
hint...never a good idea to marry a woman that loves to shoot, it's very expensive
Re: optimal barrel length
I'm just saying my experience. Also talking to Scott Powers at Snipercountrypx.com, he's like me and says the 26" is old school, and the shorter (20"308/ 24"300WM) is what most are shooting. I have witnessed this as of lately at some ranges. I took my 26" 243, and 28"6Br and felt out of place. Everyone was lookin at me and sayin " We have better powders now, you don't have to shoot a 30" tube" . If I was a vel whore yea I'd go with a longer brrl, but I want all around balanced, easy to maneuver rifle. I just tested it with the Rem 308, not a 300WM, That's what Tac Ops did, and I sure as heck ain't gonna argue with those guys, they build world class guns, that I can't afford. If I can shoot a 5 shot group at 200 .7", with 45gr Varget, and a 20" tube..... I'm stickin to it.Especially when I am doping within an inch or so difference at 1K. My 24" will soon be a 18", and well go from there.
I'm just saying my experience. Also talking to Scott Powers at Snipercountrypx.com, he's like me and says the 26" is old school, and the shorter (20"308/ 24"300WM) is what most are shooting. I have witnessed this as of lately at some ranges. I took my 26" 243, and 28"6Br and felt out of place. Everyone was lookin at me and sayin " We have better powders now, you don't have to shoot a 30" tube" . If I was a vel whore yea I'd go with a longer brrl, but I want all around balanced, easy to maneuver rifle. I just tested it with the Rem 308, not a 300WM, That's what Tac Ops did, and I sure as heck ain't gonna argue with those guys, they build world class guns, that I can't afford. If I can shoot a 5 shot group at 200 .7", with 45gr Varget, and a 20" tube..... I'm stickin to it.Especially when I am doping within an inch or so difference at 1K. My 24" will soon be a 18", and well go from there.
Re: optimal barrel length
I'm going to try to get with a buddy that has QuickLoad this weekend and see what dropping the bbl length has on velocity and amount of powder burned in the bbl.(I'm not a big fan of blowing unburned powder out the muzzle.)
I know you can get away with a much shorter bbl with Varget in a 308 then H1000 in a 7mmRem Mag as its a much faster burn and much less powder.
My target is 3000 Fps with a 180 gr for ELR shooting of 1k+. So I'm looking at 24-26" right now.
I'm going to try to get with a buddy that has QuickLoad this weekend and see what dropping the bbl length has on velocity and amount of powder burned in the bbl.(I'm not a big fan of blowing unburned powder out the muzzle.)
I know you can get away with a much shorter bbl with Varget in a 308 then H1000 in a 7mmRem Mag as its a much faster burn and much less powder.
My target is 3000 Fps with a 180 gr for ELR shooting of 1k+. So I'm looking at 24-26" right now.
Re: optimal barrel length
I'll say I hate long barrels... ie. OVER 24. Also - I love short 20-21s.......
Had a couple of 7RMs, both 24, not as light and handy, but would not change it, enough for blast, good speed, portable. Anything longer I'd see little desire, for ME. Others, YMMV.
If a 20 or 22, I'd look at a 280, if not a 6.5x55 or SA 6.5 round. Nothing wrong in 308 or 708 either w/good loads n rifle.
I think many jobs to 600 yds can be handled by handy SA rifles.
I'll say I hate long barrels... ie. OVER 24. Also - I love short 20-21s.......
Had a couple of 7RMs, both 24, not as light and handy, but would not change it, enough for blast, good speed, portable. Anything longer I'd see little desire, for ME. Others, YMMV.
If a 20 or 22, I'd look at a 280, if not a 6.5x55 or SA 6.5 round. Nothing wrong in 308 or 708 either w/good loads n rifle.
I think many jobs to 600 yds can be handled by handy SA rifles.
