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223, 300 BLK, 308???

R

RFtinkerer

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Full Member
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Jun 3, 2010
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First of all I know little about AR style rifles. I have focused on precision bolt rifles, and money is limited so all I have is a Savage 10FCP in 308. I also have an AAC 762-SDN-6 suppressor for more fun. But, I am sure the "Assault Rifle Ban" will come into fruition given recent events and this is prompting me to look into an AR now more seriously. I see several options that are attractive:

1) AR-15 223. All my friends have these, so I could borrow ammo from them if needed, and ammo is cheap and prevalent anyway. my suppressor would take down the noise pretty well.
2) AR-15 300 BLK. Ideal with my suppressor, both sub and supersonic rounds available. Attractive for low noise and decent power, but much less available ammo and no friends with this.
3) AR-10 308. My preference right now with higher power and duplication of my bolt rifle load. 1 friend has an AR-10, so we could share ammo if needed, and ammo is plentiful as well.

So I'm leaning toward an AR-10 right now. But does it make more sense to look at the others? Should I get 300 AAC Blackout strictly for better suppression? Subsonic rounds with it and my suppressor would be a lot of fun and the low noise profile would be great if needed.
 
Re: 223, 300 BLK, 308???

The answer to your question is YES (buy them ALL)!
wink.gif


The nice thing with the basic AR-15 is that you can have an AR in BOTH 5.56/.223 AND the 300 AAC Blackout in one lower receiver. It gives you arguably more modularity and caliber selection with a single lower simply by pulling the pivot and take-down pins and swapping out the complete upper.

The large-frame AR (AR-10, LR-308, etc.) gives you more bang, but in a larger platform. Your can will still work well on the .308, but will have better suppression with the 5.56 and 300BLK than with the .308.

This all comes down to a personal preference issue and what YOU want/need most. Your thinking on this so far seems clear...but only you can make the ultimate call. Personally...I go back to my earlier comment about getting them all. Better to spend the money now and get everything than to want something later than you either: a) can't get at all; or b) will have to sell your first-born to afford. Who knows what the ban will hold and what may ultimately be restricted and how it will be restricted. Only the Good Lord and some @#$%ing politicians can answer that at this point (and even the politicians don't really know yet).
wink.gif
 
Re: 223, 300 BLK, 308???

I would not get a 300 blk unless you reload $1.00 a round for subs is pricey

.223 is a must own

.308 AR It's fun to shoot but your Bolt gun Will shoot better more than likely
 
Re: 223, 300 BLK, 308???

300 BLK is not $1 a round. It is about $11 a box of 20. That is 55 cents per round.
 
Re: 223, 300 BLK, 308???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RFtinkerer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
3) AR-10 308. My preference right now with higher power and duplication of my bolt rifle load. 1 friend has an AR-10, so we could share ammo if needed, and ammo is plentiful as well.

So I'm leaning toward an AR-10 right now. </div></div>


You just answered your own question, and I agree with the 308
 
Re: 223, 300 BLK, 308???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rsilvers</div><div class="ubbcode-body">300 BLK is not $1 a round. It is about $11 a box of 20. That is 55 cents per round. </div></div>

If you read my post it says subs, the OP has a can and is talking about shooting quiet.

Best price I can find for Rem subsonic is around $19-20 per 20
You work for Remington do you know where they are cheaper?
 
Re: 223, 300 BLK, 308???

You can shoot subsonic .308 in an AR10. It just won't cycle.


To the OP: I would highly recommend looking at a 5.56 AR. For modularity, commonality, etc. Its the universal "fighting gun" on your list. Its going to be the cheapest to shoot, the cheapest to stock up on, and will do most everything a guy needs it to do. Furthermore, you can always add additional uppers later on, including the .300 BLK.
 
Re: 223, 300 BLK, 308???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tylerw02</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You can shoot subsonic .308 in an AR10. It just won't cycle. </div></div>

You can't shoot a 220 grain bullet in a 1/12 or even a 1/10 twist barrel. So it would not only not cycle, but it would be lighter. Here is some:

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/AMM-7002
 
Re: 223, 300 BLK, 308???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rsilvers</div><div class="ubbcode-body">He was debating between an AR10 308 and 223 - neither of which can shoot subsonic, so I took it to mean that he wanted supersonic with a can. </div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rsilvers</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tylerw02</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You can shoot subsonic .308 in an AR10. It just won't cycle. </div></div>

You can't shoot a 220 grain bullet in a 1/12 or even a 1/10 twist barrel.</div></div>

The point is it is available. You CAN shoot subsonic in it, which you said one could not.

I shoot 180s and 190s in my 1:10". Its very accurate.
 
Re: 223, 300 BLK, 308???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: finbox</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rsilvers</div><div class="ubbcode-body">300 BLK is not $1 a round. It is about $11 a box of 20. That is 55 cents per round. </div></div>

If you read my post it says subs, the OP has a can and is talking about shooting quiet.

Best price I can find for Rem subsonic is around $19-20 per 20
You work for Remington do you know where they are cheaper? </div></div>

I personally reload and can reload them for next to nothing, but they can be had for <$1/round. Additionally, I wouldn't piss on Remington ammo if it was on fire! I have had a variety of awful QC issues with Remington factory ammo over the years, including downright dangerous loads. You can get SWAmmo subs, as well as Cooper subs, for between $0.75-$0.80/round.

Now back to the actual issue which is: which one?!?!

The 300BLK will be the best for suppressing purposes and the quietest with your can of the three potential calibers. The 5.56/.223 will be a somewhat close second. The .308 will be the third quietest, even with subs and even with an adjustable gas block.

In terms of pure functionality and adaptability, the basic AR-15 lower will serve you in more capacities than a comparable AR-10 type lower. For ~$2k, you can have a complete, high-quality AR-15 in .223/5.56, as well as a .300BLK complete upper ready to run. Then you get the best of both worlds in terms of a complete rifle that will run readily available .223/5.56 ammo, as well as an upper to slap on your lower for dedicated "quiet" time!
wink.gif


If I were looking at most bang for the buck...that'd be the direction I'd go, but I again return to my previous comment about getting ALL of them while you can (either while you can PERIOD or while you can at a somewhat reasonable price).
 
Re: 223, 300 BLK, 308???

A semi auto rifle which does not work as semi auto is a pretty big fail for calling the ammunition compatible.
 
Re: 223, 300 BLK, 308???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rsilvers</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A semi auto rifle which does not work as semi auto is a pretty big fail for calling the ammunition compatible. </div></div>

I understand, you're purpose here is to SELL the .300 BLK and that's all good and well. We get it, its your baby.
 
Re: 223, 300 BLK, 308???

Thanks for the advice so far! I'll handle a few models after work and try to tell what I like.
 
Re: 223, 300 BLK, 308???

Get whatever AR-15 you like best in 5.56 and then just get the 7.62x35 barrel. Everything else is the same for both cartridges.
 
Re: 223, 300 BLK, 308???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tylerw02</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rsilvers</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A semi auto rifle which does not work as semi auto is a pretty big fail for calling the ammunition compatible. </div></div>

I understand, you're purpose here is to SELL the .300 BLK and that's all good and well. We get it, its your baby. </div></div>

My purpose was to keep people from thinking that 300 BLK ammunition is $1 a round. I worked very hard to help get the price low. Agreed that subsonic is not yet cheap, but 308 Subsonic is $22 a box and up.
 
Re: 223, 300 BLK, 308???

Be that as it may, if you have the SS shipped, its about $1/rd or more if you can't pick it up locally. What sucks is, as you said, its NEVER in stock. Therefore, the supply is smaller than demand. That usually means price increases or continued shortage. Supply and demand. Unfortunately, that'll be the case unless something changes.
 
Re: 223, 300 BLK, 308???

If your goal is to get into shooting subs with a can, the 300BO would be the ticket. As mentioned, if you don't reload be prepared to spend some money on factory subs. I'd stay away from any remy ammo also. Anything else and the 5.56 or .308 offer more.

I haven't heard how .308 supersonic ammo sounds from that aac can but from a 30P-1, supers in a bolt gun are quite to me.
 
Re: 223, 300 BLK, 308???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tylerw02</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Be that as it may, if you have the SS shipped, its about $1/rd or more if you can't pick it up locally. What sucks is, as you said, its NEVER in stock. Therefore, the supply is smaller than demand. That usually means price increases or continued shortage. Supply and demand. Unfortunately, that'll be the case unless something changes. </div></div>

Yes. Even one small (two guy) company said they are making 100,000 pieces of 300 BLK brass a day and cannot keep up. This is also true of the larger markers, on a larger scale. We are even giving it priority over 223 production and still demand exceeds supply.
 
Re: 223, 300 BLK, 308???

THREE WORDS 5 5 6. Seriously, can you go to wally world and pick up 300blk? Naaa. Can you order, and hope something doesn't happen while it's being shipped? Sure! EVERYONE needs a good ole 556/223. Cheap as crap, will reach 1K, no recoil hardly. Look at a cartridge's history. That will tell you a whole lot. Look at all the awesome rounds that have dropped off over the years. 6mmRem, 222, 222 Mag, I think it's just a matter of time before the 300 blk is forgotten about.Also a 223 is awesome to shoot with a can, sub sonic or not. 300blk is fun too but that's about it.
 
Re: 223, 300 BLK, 308???

All right, I concluded with AR-15 with a 5.56 upper, bought 5 30 round Pmags as well. That concludes my rush buy, I will spend more time looking at optics and accessories; I feel the rifles and high cap mags will be banned soon, but the others can wait.

I chose 5.56/223 for many of the reasons stated above. But I also added weight considerations and the ability of my family to shoot it also. I have my wife, 9 yr old son, 7 and 5 yr old girls to consider as well. Any of them should be able to handle the 5.56/223 with ease (got a collapsible stock with it too to fit everybody, handle for easy carry), whereas the 308 would be cumbersome. We can carry a lot of ammo between us as well, which might sound alarmist, but this will be a utility rather than precision rifle which I shoot for high accuracy. My bolt rifle will do nicely for that.

I also want to add the 300 BLK upper and will probably order it soon...it isn't as accessible, but if I get that in addition I can have as much fun as I want with subsonic rounds in the intended platform, at least until the SHTF. I have had nothing but trouble with subsonic rounds through my bolt rifle, none performed to my expectations and they were very pricey. Subsonic in 300 BLK should work with my suppressor--I mean, they were designed for for each other! That will be FUN.

The buying experience was a nightmare. I went to Cabelas first because I knew they had DPMS Recons with AAC Blackouts preinstalled. No joy, I saw they were sold out of that and many other models, the line JUST to get to the counter for help was probably over an hour long. I left and went to a local store; I prefer to support them anyway and they have better prices. Even there it was crowded and AR-15s were flying off the shelf. Got a Stag Arms model, which I know won't earn me any SH Rep Points (TM), but my friend has one with no problems for thousands of rounds, and I very much want that. I took off the muzzle brake immediately last night to expose the threads and ordered an AAC Brakeout.

The AR-15 panic is on, and hard. I have to say I only added to the problem, but whatever.
 
Re: 223, 300 BLK, 308???

I would say, go with the AR-15 lower. The ammo is cheaper and you can always get a AAC upper later.
 
Re: 223, 300 BLK, 308???

I just can't help myself. Had too much fun with the 5.56 upper, now I'm getting the 300 BLK upper from AAC. It's time to admit I have a problem. I don't THINK I'll go for an AR-10 right now, but I'm an addict.
 
Re: 223, 300 BLK, 308???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ORD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The answer to your question is YES (buy them ALL)!
wink.gif


The nice thing with the basic AR-15 is that you can have an AR in BOTH 5.56/.223 AND the 300 AAC Blackout in one lower receiver. It gives you arguably more modularity and caliber selection with a single lower simply by pulling the pivot and take-down pins and swapping out the complete upper.

The large-frame AR (AR-10, LR-308, etc.) gives you more bang, but in a larger platform. Your can will still work well on the .308, but will have better suppression with the 5.56 and 300BLK than with the .308.

This all comes down to a personal preference issue and what YOU want/need most. Your thinking on this so far seems clear...but only you can make the ultimate call. Personally...I go back to my earlier comment about getting them all. Better to spend the money now and get everything than to want something later than you either: a) can't get at all; or b) will have to sell your first-born to afford. Who knows what the ban will hold and what may ultimately be restricted and how it will be restricted. Only the Good Lord and some @#$%ing politicians can answer that at this point (and even the politicians don't really know yet).
wink.gif
</div></div>

+1!! That's the setup I have. Go with the AR-15, then get urself a 300 blackout upper. 223 & 300 uppers are interchangeable on the AR lower and the 300 blkout round is awesome. I consider it my .308 type round in an AR platform. And $1/rd for 220 grain subs is actually quite cheap. The extreme shock 100 grain subs that I used in .223 caliber are up to almost $3/rd!! They cycled fine w/supressor but that is too damned expensive for even me!!
 
Re: 223, 300 BLK, 308???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RFtinkerer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">All right, I concluded with AR-15 with a 5.56 upper, bought 5 30 round Pmags as well. That concludes my rush buy, I will spend more time looking at optics and accessories; I feel the rifles and high cap mags will be banned soon, but the others can wait.

I chose 5.56/223 for many of the reasons stated above. But I also added weight considerations and the ability of my family to shoot it also. I have my wife, 9 yr old son, 7 and 5 yr old girls to consider as well. Any of them should be able to handle the 5.56/223 with ease (got a collapsible stock with it too to fit everybody, handle for easy carry), whereas the 308 would be cumbersome. We can carry a lot of ammo between us as well, which might sound alarmist, but this will be a utility rather than precision rifle which I shoot for high accuracy. My bolt rifle will do nicely for that.

I also want to add the 300 BLK upper and will probably order it soon...it isn't as accessible, but if I get that in addition I can have as much fun as I want with subsonic rounds in the intended platform, at least until the SHTF. I have had nothing but trouble with subsonic rounds through my bolt rifle, none performed to my expectations and they were very pricey. Subsonic in 300 BLK should work with my suppressor--I mean, they were designed for for each other! That will be FUN.

The buying experience was a nightmare. I went to Cabelas first because I knew they had DPMS Recons with AAC Blackouts preinstalled. No joy, I saw they were sold out of that and many other models, the line JUST to get to the counter for help was probably over an hour long. I left and went to a local store; I prefer to support them anyway and they have better prices. Even there it was crowded and AR-15s were flying off the shelf. Got a Stag Arms model, which I know won't earn me any SH Rep Points (TM), but my friend has one with no problems for thousands of rounds, and I very much want that. I took off the muzzle brake immediately last night to expose the threads and ordered an AAC Brakeout.

The AR-15 panic is on, and hard. I have to say I only added to the problem, but whatever.

</div></div>

Congrats!on the best choice out of three. Stag Arms is just fine...at this point ANY is fine. Just be glad you were able to get one at all. I have the PWS 9.5" SBR upper chambered in 300 blkout. Gas piston, it is superb. And oh! so quiet with my YHM titanium can...)
 
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