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Sidearms & Scatterguns Options for 9mm 1911's

Goodwood

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Feb 11, 2012
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Utah, USA
This is a question about 1911's, but i feel like i should give a little background on the situation so you guys can give me a more informed answer, so please bear with me.

My brother has just convinced me to sell him my Smith and Wesson 642 .38 special.

Both my wife and I carry this gun (she gets it while i am at work), and she enjoys shooting it with light .38 loads. She has found the +p 127 gr. Federal carry ammo is a bit much for her liking in the airweight, hence the prompting to sell the gun and replace it.

We own several other handguns for carry including three Glocks in .40 (model 22, 23, and 27), and we have had a Glock 19, Sig 229, Sig 239, Sig 238, and several revolvers including Ruger, Taurus, and S&W models.

While originally we had planned on buying another .38 special (like the S&W ladysmith), I thought it would be a good idea to visit a couple of local gun shops to let her feel some of the new stuff that has come out since we bought the S&W. (like the S&W Shield, Ruger LC9, Kimber Solo, etc.).

We handled nearly everything we could that i felt would make a reliable carry gun that both she and i could pick up and carry. To my (pleasant) surprise, she picked three different 1911 variations as her favorites based on "feel" in her hand. The three she picked in order of preference were; an aluminum frame 5" Springfield loaded in .45 ACP, a Kimber Pro Carry II (4" BBL, 9mm), and a Kimber Compact CDP II (4" BBL, compact grip, 9mm).

She has shot the 1911 before, and the .45 ACP is a little much for her in most of the defense loads. This, as well as my presumption that she would not like the 1911 (perhaps based on comments from other females about the size and weight of the gun) has kept me from buying 1911's as a carry gun she could also use. With the extensive searching, shooting, and "feeling" we have done, I feel confident in considering a 1911, but perhaps in a different caliber.

I think the best option for us may be something chambered in 9mm. She does not mind the carry "issues" that come from the 1911 design (cocked and locked carry, thumb safety, etc). She is an excellent shot with a handgun, and I feel she will quickly operate a 1911 with confidence, if we choose to go this route.

With that limited background of our situation, my question is this:

Of the 9mm chambered 1911 pistols available with 4" and (preferably) 5" barrels, which ones should I look at besides the two Kimber models she has already seen?

Of course, this gun is one we will both end up shooting, and i do have the latitude to pick one i like to look at, and shoot. While I feel my preferences in 1911's are flexible, I would really like a more traditional look, a barrel bushing, and standard military style guide rod setup, but I don't know of one in 9mm off the top of my head.

I am interested in any input you guys have, But I am particularly interested in the 9mm 1911 options.
 
Re: Options for 9mm 1911's

Dan Wesson makes a couple different 1911 9mm's that are very nice and I never had a problem with the one I owned.
 
Re: Options for 9mm 1911's

Is there a reason you're leaning towards a full framed government slide for carry work? The 9mm in the nice heavy metal frame isn't going to recoil NEARLY as much as that S&W Airweight .38 +P did.

I carry an Officers, and tried to get my better half into a Colt 3" 9mm, but it was too heavy.

If it HAS to be a 4/5" model, have you looked into CCO designs? (They use the shorter grip of the 3" 1911s with the 4" slides, very popular for concealed carry)



And for other models to consider around that Kimber price, your choices are pretty much limited to:

Colt, Dan Wesson, S&W, SA, and STI

, who all make/have made comparable models in 9mm. (both 4 & 5" designs) All these brands have strong recognition, quality, and loyal followings rivaling Kimber.
 
Re: Options for 9mm 1911's

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jeff 03</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dan Wesson makes a couple different 1911 9mm's that are very nice and I never had a problem with the one I owned. </div></div>

She felt a Dan Wesson Pointman in the shop that was owned by the manager. It was steel framed, and she commented that it was a little heavy.

I might try and find a guardian for her to try, I think they are alloy frame.
 
Re: Options for 9mm 1911's

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Equitum</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If she liked the Springfield Loaded she picked up in .45ACP, they make a 9mm version ( http://www.springfield-armory.com/armory.php?version=23 ), and Springfield also has a 3" carry 9mm 1911 (the "Enhanced Micro Pistol", EMP: http://www.springfield-armory.com/armory.php?model=24 ). </div></div>

She tried the EMP, and she preferred the Kimper pro and compact to it.

I am having issues getting the Springfield web page to work, I'll check on the loaded. It would be military configuration guide rod and bushing barrel right?
 
Re: Options for 9mm 1911's

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KSwift</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is there a reason you're leaning towards a full framed government slide for carry work? The 9mm in the nice heavy metal frame isn't going to recoil NEARLY as much as that S&W Airweight .38. </div></div>

This is a good point. I think I am missing the boat by wanting to do a 5" BBL for this gun.

I was told by a knowledgable 1911 gunsmith years back, that the 1911 design gets less reliable as the space the slide overtravels past the rear of the magazine decreases. I have found that this distance is less in anything but 5" barrels. following this logic, the smaller guns would be more "picky" when it comes to ammo selection and reliability. Do you think this argument holds water, or even applies to a 9mm 1911? Should i not worry about it, and just find a good 3.5 or 4" gun?
 
Re: Options for 9mm 1911's

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The Woodyguy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Do you think this argument holds water, or even applies to a 9mm 1911? Should i not worry about it, and just find a good 3.5 or 4" gun? </div></div>

It is a valid point, but a negligible one. True, slides short stroking is more of an issue with shorter & stronger recoil springs found in compact guns, but as long as your ammo is sufficiently powerful and the shooter isn't limp wristing, this is a non-issue. 95+% of these incidents are due to the shooter, not the gun.

Otherwise, during normal shooting the slide "bottoms out" on the frame with a considerable amount of force, giving the shooter the muzzle flipping "recoil" sensation.


With the brand names we're talking about here and the quality level you're looking to buy, it's not an design problem. Some of the bargain brand imported 1911s have been know to have inappropriate recoil spring strengths, but the solution is just a part swap.

Almost all high-end production guns will specifically name a particular factory ammo loading as recommended, which they will have tested to the point of complete confidence. Stick with comparable ammunition loads, some of the "low-recoil" ammo marketed for kids/women/recoil-sensitive are too underpowered.
 
Re: Options for 9mm 1911's

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The Woodyguy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I am having issues getting the Springfield web page to work, I'll check on the loaded. It would be military configuration guide rod and bushing barrel right?</div></div>

I believe it'd be the same bushing as you're thinking, but they come with 2-piece full-length guide rods that make disassembly need a small Allen wrench. Some people don't like that, but a GI setup would be a simple drop-in away. I have the factor 2-piece FLGR on my Parkerized Loaded, and it doesn't really bother me, but it's nice to know it's one small change away from the GI setup.
 
Re: Options for 9mm 1911's

Agree with KS about the springs but also the magazine for malfunctions run way up there. Perhaps sell a couple of the other handguns you got there and go with a Les Baer, Wilson etc. Pricey, but worth it (custom
wink.gif
!Lot of options in the lightweight dept. ever thought about .38 super? For the price point though hard to beat STI and the Springs, been pretty good things about the sig 1911 also!Do you have access to an indoor range that rents the length/type you're looking for, it would give her a good idea of recoil on those shorter frames. Good luck
 
Re: Options for 9mm 1911's

Dan Wesson Guardian 4.25 bobtail. Very nice.
STI Trojan for a slightly cheaper option in a full 5"
Both of these are very nice pistols.
 
Re: Options for 9mm 1911's

I have an STI Trojan in 9mm it is actually one of the only guns i own that I would not sell. It's crazy accurate and has never jammed. The big difference between them and the springfields in 9mm is alot if not all the springfields do not have a ramped barrel i do believe some of the Kimbers do, but a 1911 chambered in 9mm can be figity sometimes without a ramped barrel in my experience. The sti does have a ramped barrel and so do para but i have little experience with para products. I may get slammed for saying this but I'm not a kimber fan i owned one and the sear broke after a few hundred rounds and went full auto on me (a .45 acp in full auto not as fun as it sounds lol). My stepdad has a covert 2 and I've been working on that thing for a while about ever 3rd or 4th shell caseing ejected hits him right between the eyes. We may have just got lemons but he called kimber and they refused to look at it because he had put a wilson extractor and ejector in it these are just plug and play parts no altering of the gun at all so thumbs down on their customer service to. But thats just my experience with the. But good luck in what ever you pick.
 
Re: Options for 9mm 1911's

We have some of the Dan Wesson Guardians in the shop and they are VERY nice guns!

The keys to 9mm 1911s are the magazines and springs. You may have to tune slightly the weight of the springs and get some good mags like the Wilson ETMs.

Sean
 
Re: Options for 9mm 1911's

I would buy a Shield. Less money, less weight, great reliability...... what else would you want in a carry gun?
If you're hung on a 1911 style gun in 9MM for carry then look at the Sig 938.
Only thing is, I have heard recoil is pretty rough there.
 
Re: Options for 9mm 1911's

WOW! Just got off the Wilson web page... Compacts in 9mm start at $3500.00! I don't want to sell ALL of the handguns I have for one carry gun between the wife and I.
grin.gif


We actually got to shoot a Smith and Wesson shield in 9mm, and she kind of shrugged at it... I think it would be MY first choice, and half as much as most of the other options we have seen in the 1911's. She really liked the three 1911's she felt, so I stopped trying to sell her on other guns and started to research the smaller caliber options.

Does anyone have a Dan Wesson ECO they could provide feedback on? It's a 3.5 BBL, so it is short for my liking, but looks as though it will have a similar feel to the kimbers she liked. Directly, is the DW going to be worth the extra $$ over the Kimber?
 
Re: Options for 9mm 1911's

DW- Guardian or Eco. I would love to own a guardian and hunted for awhile but decided on building my own.

STI- I can't remember their Commander model name but STI get's high marks on all accounts usually.

Colt- find a "series 70" commander or LW commander. Out of the box will probably be lacking some features (unless you find one already modded as you want it) but an excellent platform to build on.

Rock Island- Good budget 1911's and not a bad way to test out the platform.

Springfield- EMP (not a true 1911) but I loved mine. They also make Gov models in both Target and Loaded models- they prob don't fit the needs it sounds like. Also the Springfield Custom shop is outstanding and I have one of these on order
WTL17-rightside.jpg
 
Re: Options for 9mm 1911's

I have 4 different 1911 and my smith and Wesson 9mm pro series shoots awesome 10 round mag. light recoil novak style sights very good gun.
 
Re: Options for 9mm 1911's

We found a Dan Wesson ECO tonight, and she liked the feel and look of it. She is not a fan of the aggressive VZ grips and the grips on the ECO were "perfect" according to her.

The gun has a more modern look to it, which is kind of the opposite of what I was looking for when I started this search, but I am warming up to it.

I think she is getting used to the idea that this is going to be "her" gun that I carry on occasion, whereas all of our others have been my guns that she carries occasionally.
shocked.gif


It was apparent that this gun is on a whole new level whe compared to the Kimbers (both in refinements and in price tag). This is a $1600.00 gun! I think the DW is the closest I have come to finding then next carry gun for us both. I think I would have bought it if it was a few hundred less. I might have to get rid of one of my others to make this thing happen right now. (The S&W 642 we sold is a $400.00 gun new, so this is a BIG step up in price tag!)

I am still entertaining the idea of doing a Colt Lightweight Commander or Kimber and customizing it to suit. I think I could accomplish that for about the $1600.00 price tag of the DW, so I am not 100% sold on buying it just yet.

What would you guys do with a ceiling of $1500.00 - $1600.00? Would you build a Colt or Kimber to suit, or should I settle on the moderninity of the Dan Wesson, and just buy her the gun?
 
Re: Options for 9mm 1911's

I would buy the Dan Wesson and be done. I have a Kimber Pro CDP II and I also have a Dan Wesson Specialist. The DW is by far a nicer gun. I would go with another DW over a Kimber any day. I was looking at the ECO but I really wanted a full size so that is what I got, but for a carry gun the DW ECO would work great I think. Also shop around on that price I think you can find a better deal than $1600.

Walter
 
Re: Options for 9mm 1911's

Yeah, this one was priced at $1629.99 if I remember correctly. To bad her birthday is in November, and Christmas is a week past. I'm having difficulty coming up with a special occasion to justify the purchase of the most expensive carry gun either of us has ever purchased; and to think that it will be a 9mm 1911... I would have never guessed this.
 
Re: Options for 9mm 1911's


Your money, and some folks just like new stuff all over, but I look for the earlier Colt 1911A1's, change what I don't like, and I'm far ahead of any new 1911 in spite of CNC technology. The steel, fit and finish is better and the gun is broken in. The gun runs better for it.

Its not that I'm a staunch traditionalist. I like smooth autos.
 
Re: Options for 9mm 1911's

The Dan Wesson Guardian in 9mm is what I settled on. Had a bit of a rough start with it in regard to reliability but a trip back to the factory fixed it and I can't MAKE it malfunction at this point. I didn't trust it after the initial issues and put a few hundred rounds of various sorts through it using different magazines and now I'm confident in it. It's not only as reliable as I want but it's a laser in regard to accuracy. Recoil is negligible and I actually have to tune myself to shooting it as I'm used to more recoil when a 1911 is in my hands. Love this pistol.
 
Re: Options for 9mm 1911's

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The Woodyguy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KSwift</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is there a reason you're leaning towards a full framed government slide for carry work? The 9mm in the nice heavy metal frame isn't going to recoil NEARLY as much as that S&W Airweight .38. </div></div>

This is a good point. I think I am missing the boat by wanting to do a 5" BBL for this gun.

I was told by a knowledgable 1911 gunsmith years back, that the 1911 design gets less reliable as the space the slide overtravels past the rear of the magazine decreases. I have found that this distance is less in anything but 5" barrels. following this logic, the smaller guns would be more "picky" when it comes to ammo selection and reliability. Do you think this argument holds water, or even applies to a 9mm 1911? Should i not worry about it, and just find a good 3.5 or 4" gun? </div></div>

The smaller the slide, the faster it runs. As such, it is more sensitive to everything: limp wrist, recoil spring weight, mag spring, mag lips in spec, extractor tension.

Generally the 1911 is less reliable whe not running 45 ball. Mine run great in 45, 40, 356sig, 9mm, 10mm, 38 super. But I can self-rescue. I can tweak. I can tune. Diagnose. It's a life-style. Not a casual endeavor.

If you must get a 9mm 1911 stay commander sized or above (Kimber this is the Pro size). You could get an ultra and it'll run great. But gunsmiths like me need to sleep at night and I know better.

9mm is just as effective a round as 45. They both suck and you'll wish you had an AR. But if you're looking at 9mm. Looking at a pro sized Kimber 9mm? Why in the hell don't you get her running a G19? Same sized. More reliable. Easier maintenance schedule. And 15+1 capacity.

If she must have a subcompact, get her into a G26 or a m&p shield? I love 1911s and have done more with them than most. Carried one for work for 12 years. But today, it's the long way around to the barn door.

TTR
 
Re: Options for 9mm 1911's

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mr.45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Chakup, thats sweet! Also heard good about Rock River for the cost. DW over kimber, justifying the cost? ABSOLUTELY! </div></div>

Rock River 1911's IF you can find are VERY nice guns, but not the same as Rock Island.

Dan Wesson- when you factor in the parts used, etc they're a bargain. Consider an older stock colt 9mm is going to run you close to $1K for one in good shape. That $600 to the DW won't go far once you cut for sights, add new sights, checker and refinish.

if you're willing to hunt you should be able to find a slightly better deal on the gun
http://forum.pafoa.org/firearms-6/194453-dan-wesson-eco-9mm-1911-pitt.html
 
Re: Options for 9mm 1911's

OK. The information you guys have provided has been great. I am going to take a step back from this for a moment, and try and take a fresh look at it.

I nearly always buy a firearm to "fill a role," or serve a particular purpose. I think I might be trying to combine too many things into one gun. I have MY desire to buy a 1911, and HER telling me that three different 1911's FEEL good in the shops. Then I have a matter of lightweight and concealable size vs. recoil management, and this causes the search to begin for an alternate caliber. Normally this would not be that big of an issue, but in this case we are dealing with a one-hundred year-old design - the 1911. I don't think that the capacity is bothering me too much, because the gun we are "replacing" is a J-frame .38 special (five rounds).

I think the next thing I need to do is start collecting guns to SHOOT next to each other.

I have friends with several of the variations that we have spoken about including a 9mm Shield, a Colt Government in .38 super, and a lightweight commander size Springfield in 45ACP. We have owned and/or shot several of the guns you guys have suggested, like the Glock 19, and the Sig 238. I think I want to get at least three or four of these guns together and see if she prefers SHOOTING one or another.

I think I could get used to the Dan Wesson idea, and knowing they are out there for $1400-1500 is a lot easier to handle than dumping nearly two grand into gun, magazines, holsters, ammo etc. People say "whats an extra two hundred dollars when you are spending "X" amount already" but I think that that extra $200 is a big deal to me when considering a $1600 carry handgun to replace a $400 carry handgun.

I think that one thing that has developed is a question of buying one gun vs buying two. I could replace the Smith and Wesson with a heavier S&W Ladysmith, or even a Shield in 9mm to fulfill the role of "carry gun." Then buy a full-size 1911 for around $1000.00 and keep it as our "stay at home defense gun." I think this would satisfy her (and really my) desire to own a 1911 size gun. We could get something heavy enough to help manage the recoil of the 45ACP without having to worry about concealed carry size and weight constraints, as well as possible reliability issues created by caliber, magazines, and slide size incompatabilities. What do you think about this reasoning? Two is better than one right?

Again, I really appreciate all of your opinions and ideas about this, and I am not giving up on the 9mm 1911 idea yet, I just want to be darn sure about it before laying down three times the money as originally planned for a single gun. If it is the RIGHT GUN, than so be it, but I definately dont want to mess this one up. Thanks again guys!
 
Re: Options for 9mm 1911's

How about a 5" STI Trojan in 9mm from Dawson Precision for $1008.99 and get on the waiting list at a LGS for a Shield. My Trojan is more accurate than I am and has never had a failure of any kind. I had to wait 4 months for my Shield but love it for the size. You should be able to get the Shield for under $500, but I undrestand that most shops are gouging due to their scarcity. You will still be under $1600 and have both a bedside and an excellent CC weapon

Good luck,
Mike
 
Re: Options for 9mm 1911's

STI Trojan (Ramped barrel) Super Accurate, Super Reliable
 
Re: Options for 9mm 1911's

Try to get your hands on a Rock Island FS and commander size 9mm. They aren't as fancy as some but work- Search and read reviews and decide for yourself. You could buy both and still be under budget, and if you shop used and are patient could probably break even on selling the j-frame if that's what you do.
 
Re: Options for 9mm 1911's

I think one of our local ranges rents the Rock Island's for shooting on their range. I'll get in touch with them. I have a friend that lives 20 miles north of me that collects firearms. Most of his stuff is war-orriented stuff, but I would not be suprised if he has a 9mm Colt Commander or LW Commander, as he seems to have one of everything. I think we will have some shooting to do for the new year, because I definately want to know for sure before going all-out on a Dan Wesson.
 
Re: Options for 9mm 1911's

Being a fan of STI, i'd say the STI Trojan is the way to go. Very accurate, obviously low recoil, and very reliable.