new to reloading issues

[TOPGuN050]

hows it goin?

i am new to reloading so please dont destroy me on here. i am having trouble with "some" of my cases giving me some dimples just below the shoulder. the brass is hornady and it was once fired from my rifle as factory ammo. i loaded it once and no issues, it also delivered pretty good accuracy with 210smks running 68.5gr of RL22. rifle is a savage 110BA in 300 win mag. my question is, would this be a sign of major overpressure, or could the brass just not be holding up that well? i picked 68.5 because it was around the middle in my manual.

i shot this same load the day before with no brass problems at all. went home loaded another 20 after cleaning that same brass and the problems started there. as mentioned before not "all" of the rounds did this. as for accuracy, it was still sub MOA at 100yds.

any help on this issue would be greatly appreciated and thank you in advance.

 

[sandwarrior]

Re: new to reloading issues

From what you describe, the problem is you have your seater die <span style="text-decoration: underline">BODY</span> set too deep. Loosen it up 1/2 turn and see if you get the same feed issue/dimple. Note: If you have turned your die out, then you will need to turn the <span style="font-style: italic">seater stem</span> in to compensate.

 

[BirdEyes]

Re: new to reloading issues

Depending on what exactly you are describing, Sandwarrior is correct or else your problem is too much lube and it is getting on the shoulder and causing hydraulic dimples. Since you successfully reloaded it once, I'll assume your die is set correctly and the latter is the case. If so, no problem if not severely deformed, it will get its shape back when you fire it and use less lube next time. If you have a picture, that would clarify. I suspect that what you are referring to as below the shoulder is, in fact, the shoulder.

 

[roggom]

Re: new to reloading issues

If you are getting dents when resizing, clean out your dies, as you may have a buildup of lubricant. Imperial sizing wax is a nice case lube and doesnt dent cases as much as others.

If you are getting dimples or dents after you fire, I would check the loads again. If you have an accidental reduced load with slow powder it can cause the cases to dimple because of the pressure difference

Here are some examples. http://forum.accurateshooter.com/index.php?topic=3757610.0

 

[TOPGuN050]

Re: new to reloading issues

thank you for all of the input,

to clarify, the dimples are happening during the firing process not the loading process. everything feeds nicely in my dies.

like said before i made the same load before with the same brass and no problems at all, then using the same brass loaded it again and shooting today produced the dimples, some worse than others and some cases not at all. all rounds fired cycled in my action well with no sticking or difficulty chaimbering. i will have a photo up in the morning.

 

[ksthomas]

Re: new to reloading issues

You'd need to post some pics here so that we can more accurately understand what you're dealing with here. From what you're describing, it sounds to me like you've got a relatively low pressure load that is not causing the brass to fully obturate and seal the chamber. The result is gas flowing back onto the body area of the case where it can collapse it into what one might describe as "dimples." This invariably leaves soot and powder residue down on the case body. Is there soot present?

This sounds to me like what you're describing, but as I said, a picture would be needed to clarify this.

 

[JB02]

Re: new to reloading issues

What Kevin has written is a good hypothesis. Magnum rounds using slow burning powders (H1000, RL 22 and Retumbo) work best when they are loaded near the upper limit.

 

[TOPGuN050]

Re: new to reloading issues

yes there is a good ammount of soot in and around the dimples. if this is the problem that its a low pressure problem, why would it not happen the first time around, and happen the second? then some did it some didnt.

 

[TOPGuN050]

Re: new to reloading issues

looks very similar to this. the dimples on mine are not as bad or deep but i had to find a pic for you guys. no other part of the case failed. some cases had 2 dimples one on each side of the case and some had 3.

 

[JB02]

Re: new to reloading issues

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TOPGuN050</div><div class="ubbcode-body">yes there is a good ammount of soot in and around the dimples. if this is the problem that its a low pressure problem, why would it not happen the first time around, and happen the second? then some did it some didnt.</div></div>

Many times components fail under a cyclic load. Perhaps the first instance the brass was able to withstand the pressure as far as you could tell, but likely several of the crystalline bonds were broken. Upon the second instance the pressure would be able to plastically deform the weakened specimen. The fact that you have a good amount of soot around the case shoulder means that your brass is not sealing to the chamber walls, which suggests insufficient pressure. Are you loading on the high or low end of the spectrum per your reloading manual? Does this condition manifest at all charge weights, especially on the higher end?

 

[TOPGuN050]

Re: new to reloading issues

the charge weight is in the middle to low end in my manual for RL22. like said before it did not happen on the first loading when the brass was only once fired. 2nd loading it happened. i am loading 68.5gr of RL22 but i hear guys going up to 70 plus. the top of the load sheet in my manual is 72.5, just under that is 70.9gr. should i try and bump it higher to raise the pressure level and use newer once fired brass?

 

[former naval person]

Re: new to reloading issues

Yes. Go up.

 

[ksthomas]

Re: new to reloading issues

Yep, exactly what I'd pictured, and just what I expected. Like the man said, you need to bump it up a bit and that should solve the problem.

Think if it this way. When we deal with a loaded cartridge, we have a self-contained package with propellent, primer and projectile. Upon firing, that case becomes little more than a gasket that seals the chamber and prevents gas from leaking through the action and into the shooters face. Gas will take the route of least resistance, and if the pressure isn't high enough to cause the sealing I mentioned, then your gasket just failed. In this example, it just let enough gas back down around the case to collapse the shoulders and body inward a bit. Not a major problem this time, but it's a warning sign that needs to be acknowledged and heeded.

 

[TOPGuN050]

Re: new to reloading issues

alright i will load some tonight and pick up the charge a bit. thank you all for the info and guidance, it is very much appreciated. i will post an update as soon as i get to the range.

 

[sandwarrior]

Re: new to reloading issues

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kevin Thomas</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yep, exactly what I'd pictured, and just what I expected. Like the man said, you need to bump it up a bit and that should solve the problem.

Think if it this way. When we deal with a loaded cartridge, we have a self-contained package with propellent, primer and projectile. Upon firing, that case becomes little more than a gasket that seals the chamber and prevents gas from leaking through the action and into the shooters face. Gas will take the route of least resistance, and if the pressure isn't high enough to cause the sealing I mentioned, then your gasket just failed. In this example, it just let enough gas back down around the case to collapse the shoulders and body inward a bit. Not a major problem this time, but it's a warning sign that needs to be acknowledged and heeded. </div></div>

Good catch, I've never seen it dent in the upper case body like that. What I have seen, especially with slow powder, is secondary ignition where you get way too high of pressure. That with an underload of slow powder.

 

[ksthomas]

Re: new to reloading issues

Also called Secondary Explosive Effect (or SEE) or a Pressure Excursion. Yeah, they're very rare and hard to reproduce in a lab environment, but it does happen. Serious bad news when it does, and best avoided altogether. Thanks for mentioning this one, as I'm sure some folks have never heard of this phenomenon.