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Hunting & Fishing Hunters and Hobby Shooters

JCH

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Jun 10, 2008
2,768
116
Oklahoma City, OK
I guess those with a narrow mind are having trouble reading between the lines. I'm going to make this post a simple as possible so that those who don't read for content can understand.


This is the most dangerous time in the United States for gun owners and those that support the 2nd Amendment. For the first time the casual American is beginning to support the liberal mindset and those that want to take away our right to keep firearms, hunt, target shoot, and collect firearms.

On a near weekly basis I hear or read a conversation about gun control in my place of employment. I hear arguments asking why any person would "need" a certain firearm, or a certain accessory and why those that hunt don't agree with this mindset. The liberals ask why any firearm should hold more than just a couple of rounds like those that hunters use. Liberals argue that we don't need semi-automatic firearms to pursue hunting sports so they should be banned.

Then I come to this site, one that has influenced my thoughts and beliefs concerning hunting, shooting, and firearm ownership in general, and I read people who are members and even sponsors telling others that some legal activity that they are participating in is unmoral and they should be ashamed of themselves. They argue that supporting the 2nd Amendment has nothing to do with hunting.

With that argument popping up more and more I want to make some things clear. I shouldn't have to but some just don't get it.

1. God didn't give you the right to own firearms. A group of Godly men that framed the Constitution did. I'm a religious person and I don't recall anywhere in the Bible where God gave us the right to protect ourselves. With that right being given by man, it can be taken by man. Any argument to the contrary is ludicrous.

2. Hunters in this nation make up a VERY, VERY large portion of those that belong to the NRA, SCI, etc.. and are supporters of the 2nd Amendment BECAUSE they hunt. It's engrained in their life and community and is a way of life for them.

3. Sport shooters and target shooters make up a VERY, VERY large portion of the 2nd Amendment supporters in this nation. I would guess less of a percentage than the hunters but I have no firm numbers to base that on.

4. The constitution doesn't guarantee your right to target shoot and spray the countryside with lead and poisonous gas/dust just so you can get your thrills by hitting a paper or steel target.

5. The United States Constitution doesn't guarantee your right to hunt, but many state constitutions do.
Read the list here

6. Liberals who want gun control want to take things one small step at a time. They will keep inching forward until they have everything and our way of life is gone. I hope for my sake that I never live to see that day and neither does my son.


I point all this out to show that we as a community (hunters, fisherman, outdoor enthusiasts, target shooters, gun collectors, and even businesses that profit off of firearms) have to stand as a united front against any loss of liberty.

<span style="color: #FF0000"><span style="font-size: 14pt">I FEEL RIDICULOUS EVEN HAVING TO STATE THAT LAST PARAGRAPH ON A SITE LIKE THIS</span></span>

Those of you that are attacking hunters need to wake up. Liberals aren't after hunters as much as they are after target shooters and gun collectors. They want your magazines, they want your large lots of ammunition, and they want your scary guns. During all of this, people who only hunt will support the NRA, and you, in the fight against these people. Why? because the vast majority, unlike some dimwits on this board, see the writing on the wall.

If they take your guns today, it's our hunting rifles tomorrow.

What do you think would happen if you eliminate one of the VERY VERY large portions of 2nd Amendment supporters from the list I mentioned earlier? The walls start coming down more quickly. IF hunters lose the right to hunt, then there will be those that won't support those that choose to shoot targets only, then there will be some that won't support those that wish to collect.

Like it or not, our fates are intertwined. So instead of looking at a thread where a legal, law abiding gun owner shot a beautiful creature legally and then posting your narrow minded hateful views, go on about your way. We don't want you to condone it, just support our right to do it. Go on about your way but remember to support our right. Hunters will in turn support your right to do what you wish.

As someone who participates in both, I see both sides. I'm a target shooter, hunter, collector and I support any gun related activity that is legal.
 
Re: Hunters and Hobby Shooters

It is amazing how united the anti-gun and anti-hunters are, you will rarely if ever find them arguing. Yet, you will find hand gunners, bench rest shooters, long range shooters, collectors, Rocky Mtn Elk foundation members, Mule Deer foundation members, pheasants forever, fishing organizations, shooting clubs (the list goes on) will bicker about ethics, morals, rights, privileges, grammar, sportsmanship, laws etc at the drop of the hat. Its one of the best tools the Anti's use, let us destroy ourselves. Split our money, time and energy fighting not only them but each other. The members of all our forums, clubs and organizations are great people but really watch who is winning when we bicker within our linked groups. The infighting we do as gun owners, whether it be collectors, recreational shooters, hunters, etc, only benefits our opponents.
 
Re: Hunters and Hobby Shooters

Nicely put, Thank you... We as gun owners need to stand together UNITED AS ONE
 
Re: Hunters and Hobby Shooters

Uhh. Just one point. Otherwise, I agree, we need to stick together, and work together.
In the scriptures, there IS an admonition to protect oneself.
In the New Testament, Christ is lecturing his Disciples on how to conduct themselves after he is gone. He is GREATLY concerned for their safety. He says (paraphrased) that "Up to now you have never had need of anything like money or a shelter, or anything, all needs where met. Now that I am to be gone, you will be unprotected. If you have a cloak or something else you can sell, do so and buy a sword." He is told that they already have two swords (the assault weapon of the day, a Roman Short Sword), to which he replies, "It is enough".
That one example is an outright instruction to defend. However the entire Old Testament is filled with examples of girding one's loins and standing forth against the enemy, against wrong, and against evil.
 
Re: Hunters and Hobby Shooters

I would add that the Second Amendment was not written to protect our right to hunt and punch holes in paper. It was also not written for the purpose of self defense. It was, however, written with the intent of the people defending themselves against tyranny. This is the 'being necessary to the security of a free state' comes into play. Were we, as citizens, meant to have 'military grade' weapons? Yep. If not, it would state that said arms must always be inferior to those issued to soldiers by the government.

I agree that the average American is beginning to believe the liberal media that guns are evil, and that they should be heavily restricted. I'm a hobbyist shooter, enthusiast, hunter, collector, reloader, etc., and think that this whole mess stinks like shit.

... just my $.02.
 
Re: Hunters and Hobby Shooters

Forgive my rant from above. I was tired of arguing in another thread with a couple members that just didn't get it.

I'm just tired of people telling others what they should or should not do while hunting. Those same people expect that they should be supported when they want to target shoot and exercise their second amendment rights as they choose.

Don't like head shots and the pics of them? Don't look.
(something I find gross)

Don't like people shooting predators? Don't read threads about it then.
 
Re: Hunters and Hobby Shooters

Very well stated all around.
 
Re: Hunters and Hobby Shooters

JCH, I'm with you. I was a poster in that "other" thread where non-hunters spewed their garbage & distaste for our sport. It really sickens me to see such crap even allowed here. If a person doesn't want to hunt, fine don't. But i'll be damned if I will allow them to cram their views down my throat. Pure & unadulterated Liberal BS right there.... I can't stand it.

Thank you for calling it as it is.


t
 
Re: Hunters and Hobby Shooters

Standing together is important, quarreling amongst ourselves regarding "hunting" and "self defense" and "defense against tyranny" are all arguing for the private ownership of firearms and weapons and that's the end cause. Having a discussion with the "moderates" to educate and inform is absolutely necessary but when we spiral to a pissing match it's only looking bad for us overall.

I have a correction to offer on your opening point that is fundamental to your argument:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">1. God didn't give you the right to own firearms. A group of Godly men that framed the Constitution did. I'm a religious person and I don't recall anywhere in the Bible where God gave us the right to protect ourselves. With that right being given by man, it can be taken by man. Any argument to the contrary is ludicrous.</div></div>

Luke 22:36 (NIV)

He said to them, “But now let the one who has a moneybag take it, and likewise a knapsack. <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">And let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one.</span></span>




<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hankpac</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Uhh. Just one point. Otherwise, I agree, we need to stick together, and work together.
In the scriptures, there IS an admonition to protect oneself.
In the New Testament, Christ is lecturing his Disciples on how to conduct themselves after he is gone. He is GREATLY concerned for their safety. He says (paraphrased) that "Up to now you have never had need of anything like money or a shelter, or anything, all needs where met. Now that I am to be gone, you will be unprotected. If you have a cloak or something else you can sell, do so and buy a sword." He is told that they already have two swords (the assault weapon of the day, a Roman Short Sword), to which he replies, "It is enough".
That one example is an outright instruction to defend. However the entire Old Testament is filled with examples of girding one's loins and standing forth against the enemy, against wrong, and against evil. </div></div>

Yes, there are multitudes of examples for defense of self and those who are unable to defend themselves such as orphans (fatherless) and widows against the evil and unjust. Just one such example; Isiah 1:17







With regards to the ethicality of hunting shots taken/made/equipment used/etc. I really have some of that stick in my craw on it. I was approached by a PGC officer this year who felt his personally imposed limits due to his lack in shooting abilities should apply to me. After a 15 minute pontification I closed with the statement:

"You folks have a difficult job to do, but you're making it even harder on yourself assuming an opportunity to harangue and lecture when there is no violation, nor is your argument based upon direct observation and fact on my actions or skillset. I rarely try to give another 'professional' a piece of advice but this is one happenstance where you need to re-evaluate how you address folks. How dare you presume to impose your own limits others you have no basis to understand?"
 
Re: Hunters and Hobby Shooters

everyone has already said to what a gun owner needs to say.I will only add one thing I've got your 6 any day any time
 
Re: Hunters and Hobby Shooters

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Standing together is important, quarreling amongst ourselves regarding "hunting" and "self defense" and "defense against tyranny" are all arguing for the private ownership of firearms and weapons and that's the end cause. Having a discussion with the "moderates" to educate and inform is absolutely necessary but when we spiral to a pissing match it's only looking bad for us overall.

I have a correction to offer on your opening point that is fundamental to your argument:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">1. God didn't give you the right to own firearms. A group of Godly men that framed the Constitution did. I'm a religious person and I don't recall anywhere in the Bible where God gave us the right to protect ourselves. With that right being given by man, it can be taken by man. Any argument to the contrary is ludicrous.</div></div>

Luke 22:36 (NIV)

He said to them, “But now let the one who has a moneybag take it, and likewise a knapsack. <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">And let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one.</span></span>




<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hankpac</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Uhh. Just one point. Otherwise, I agree, we need to stick together, and work together.
In the scriptures, there IS an admonition to protect oneself.
In the New Testament, Christ is lecturing his Disciples on how to conduct themselves after he is gone. He is GREATLY concerned for their safety. He says (paraphrased) that "Up to now you have never had need of anything like money or a shelter, or anything, all needs where met. Now that I am to be gone, you will be unprotected. If you have a cloak or something else you can sell, do so and buy a sword." He is told that they already have two swords (the assault weapon of the day, a Roman Short Sword), to which he replies, "It is enough".
That one example is an outright instruction to defend. However the entire Old Testament is filled with examples of girding one's loins and standing forth against the enemy, against wrong, and against evil. </div></div>

Yes, there are multitudes of examples for defense of self and those who are unable to defend themselves such as orphans (fatherless) and widows against the evil and unjust. Just one such example; Isiah 1:17







With regards to the ethicality of hunting shots taken/made/equipment used/etc. I really have some of that stick in my craw on it. I was approached by a PGC officer this year who felt his personally imposed limits due to his lack in shooting abilities should apply to me. After a 15 minute pontification I closed with the statement:

"You folks have a difficult job to do, but you're making it even harder on yourself assuming an opportunity to harangue and lecture when there is no violation, nor is your argument based upon direct observation and fact on my actions or skillset. I rarely try to give another 'professional' a piece of advice but this is one happenstance where you need to re-evaluate how you address folks. How dare you presume to impose your own limits others you have no basis to understand?"

</div></div>

Bohem, my argument about God was more directed at a right to defend oneself with a firearm. I am aware of those scriptures and I am also aware of what happened in the Garden the night Jesus was arrested. He was surrounded by armed men and one tried to cut someones head off and succeeded in separating an ear from a head.

It was poorly worded on my part.

You guys have made some very good points
 
Re: Hunters and Hobby Shooters

This thread has taken a unique turn with the religious references. Interesting trun that I haven't heard on other forums.
 
Re: Hunters and Hobby Shooters

JCH, very well stated, we need more like voices.
IMHO Every person in this great country who owns a firearm for any reason/purpose should, as a minimun, join the NRA and contribute as much as you can to the cause because the 2nd Ammendment is a fine line between them (the liberals) and us gun owners, and we are being attached along that line almost daily. Also you should seize every opportunity to call, write, or make contact with your local State Legislators and Congress Men/Women and make your concerns known to them before they approve the seizure of your favorite rifle, shotgun or pistol or tax ammo, bullets, powder etc so much we can't afford to go shoot/hunt anything, and/or if you do you become a criminal.

One more thing, please be mindful of the 'taste' of the kill shots you post on this friendly forum as well, but especially on others like YouTube, or on any other internet media, as they can be taken out of context and broadcast by liberal folks like PETA and used against 'us' to sway the opinion of those who just don't understand...
 
Re: Hunters and Hobby Shooters

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Trooper #40</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
One more thing, please be mindful of the 'taste' of the kill shots you post on this friendly forum as well, but especially on others like YouTube, or on any other internet media, as they can be taken out of context and broadcast by liberal folks like PETA and used against 'us' </div></div>

Anything you say can and will be used against you. If the enemy didn't have your pictures of kills to use, where would they get them? Don't help them. I'll admit to posting my kill shots here, but they're pretty PG-13 and the only pictures I share with people outside of the community are those of prepared dishes. It's hard for anyone to freak out at pictures of a cooked meal even if it was got the old fashioned way.



 
Re: Hunters and Hobby Shooters

Some people are too focused on the branch they're standing on to realize that the entire tree is being chopped down.