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Advanced Marksmanship Keeping the wrists straight.

Barn Side

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Sep 16, 2012
215
8
39
I have read that there should be a straight line from wrist of the firing hand to the elbow.

And that the left hand and wrist must be in a straight line with the left arm, with the fore-end of the rifle resting on the heel of the hand (NOT across the base of the fingers).


Has anyone else heard of this?
 
Re: Keeping the wrists straight.

Major John L. Plaster mentions it in his book.
 
Re: Keeping the wrists straight.

<span style="font-style: italic">Lay your thumb beside the stock rather than across it so it allows you to keep your shooting hand in line…are designed to keep the shooter’s hand in line … for undistorted, natural aiming. </span>
 
Re: Keeping the wrists straight.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dkealty</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-style: italic">Lay your thumb beside the stock rather than across it so it allows you to keep your shooting hand in line…are designed to keep the shooter’s hand in line … for undistorted, natural aiming. </span> </div></div>

I also shoot with my thumb along the side. Even though I have large hands, I find that it helps with getting the shooting finger and trigger at a right angle to each other.
 
Re: Keeping the wrists straight.

Keeping your thumb along the side of the stock leads to muscle fatigue in the hand more quickly. Allowing your thumb to rest on top of the stock increases the amount of time that your hand can be comfortably positioned on the stock, and also helps to eliminate over-gripping of the fingers.
 
Re: Keeping the wrists straight.

I also lay my thumb alongside the stock, never knew it was right or wrong but found it kept me from being able to squeeze the stock which might or might not be the same every time. My gun pretty much just lays on the rear bag and I can lean back from it and it'll still stay in position. The less you do to inflict any changes from shot to shot will help improve your groups. If you're trying to hold it in position or keep it from coming back or rising up then you need to change something.

I've seen newer shooters with their thumbs wrapped around the stock and you can see them tightening up their grips and even see their thumbs turning white from getting a firmer grip. If they are having to do all that then they probably also have other problems that need to be addressed. It should feel natural when you go into position and slide your finger into the trigger and you fingers curl around the forward part of the grip, letting the thumb lay against the stock. Trigger finger at a 90 degree onto the trigger and a straight pressure rearward till it goes off.

It's really noticeable when you get a shooter unfamiliar with the Savage Accu-trigger and you hear a click and the gun don't go off. They are pulling the trigger with their finger at an angle and it's not pulling in the safety lever part of the trigger in far enough before the trigger releases. When they start pulling straight back at the correct angle that problem goes away.

Topstrap
 
Re: Keeping the wrists straight.

added to the "behind the rifle" & loading the bipod technics, all of the above is a winner for recoil control, muzzle flip, side to side torqueing / hopping, and follow through.


pretty neat watching the bullet impact through the optic after firing.
 
Re: Keeping the wrists straight.

Anything you do that leads to discomfort or to fatigue is counterproductive.

One shot done well is different from an indefinite succession of shots done well.

Greg
 
Re: Keeping the wrists straight.

My friend- Interesting observations from these teachers (in the books, not on this forum thread), but if that's the way they're teaching, they're missing the point, and they're not conveying the true fundamentals.

Firing hand (trigger hand): The LOP and position should be such that the grip upon the pistol grip should have all forces at the foremost portion of the pistol grip. If the LOP is too long, then you'll note that you'll feel forces upon your finger tips, and on the left side of the pistol grip. (forcing the rifle to the right) Thus, shorten your LOP. If the LOP is too short, you'll find that the heel of your hand is digging into the pistol grip, and effectively forcing the rifle to the left. You'll know your LOP and position are both correct when you feel force at the very front of the pistol grip, and that coincides with perfect rearward pressure from a location ~ base of the fingers. So, my advice to you is don't worry about this whole "straight wrist" or "bent wrist" thing. What manifests when you're feeling the pistol grip is ultimately what's important. From there, fix your position or LOP in such a way that the forces upon the rifle from your firing hand are directly rearward (not left, not right).

Left hand (support hand): Given a sling, properly positioned upon the arm and around the wrist/upper arm: The forend rests over the wrist in such a way that the forces of the rifle transmit directly through the wrist and down to the elbow. There are no forces upon the hand, other than compression through the hand. Look at your left hand (really). Place your right hand to the left of the centerline crease of your left hand, and directly above the wrist. Push. Your left hand just rotated to the left. Place your right hand to the right of that same centerline crease. Push. Your left hand just rotated right. The rifle's forces upon your support hand need to be centered over that centerline crease, in such a way that there are NO tendencies of that wrist to break either left or right. Thus, it stays straight. But now you know why, and how.

The whole thumb along or touching or whatever...... BS. Just let your thumb hang out and enjoy the ride. It should have no ability to affect your position. If it does, you're doing it wrong.

Finally, I mean no offense to those others with a difference of opinion. However, I ask those folks to consider the above and challenge me if they think I'm off base. It's too bad that some folks try to get a shooter into an orthodox position, without truly understanding the fundamentals. It's the fundamentals that drive the orthodox position, not the other way around. But then again, I applaud all those who are working hard to train up our next generation, regardless of the pedigree. Thank you to all!
 
Re: Keeping the wrists straight.

Mr Johnson, I admit I have no pedigree as probably most on here that try to offer help don't. Most of us don't have fancy titles after our names or World Championship trophies on our mantels.

I for one only try to share what works for me and I look shamefully around admitting that I haven't placed first at any of our long range steel plate matches but I do use a gun that uses a true "pistol grip" that uses no sling, support hand or worry about LOP that affects our shot. Total control of shot placement is from the pressure or non pressure placed against the "pistol grip". I do think I've learned a little about what it takes to affect shot placement where even the slightest variance in pressure of fingers, thumb, grip tension, angle of our wrists, elbow and even shoulder tension will move our shot.

The rest of what you mention may be correct for whatever type of competition you participate in and it sounds similar to what Sterling Shooter and others that compete in NRA or position style matches talk about and probably find works quite well and needs to be learned to be competitive. Not sure that is what the OP was asking about but I based at least my comments on the type of shooting we participate in.

After rereading the original question I think he's asking about proper form for a certain type of shooting I don't do and should have not posted help based on my lack of knowledge in that particular area where it may be essential.

I don't think what most of us added was meant to be taken as Gospel, each shooter should experiment and tweak till he finds what works best for them and fits best with the type of competition they are wishing to participate in and not all of us are using conventional types of guns to participate in matches that falls outside the norm.

I do think certain types of shooting competitions do have different ways of doing it that work better and give an advantage when learned but these can also lend themselves to be detrimental in other forms of competition.

So after all that, your comment on where your thumb is placed. You betcha it will affect shot placement on my 1000 yard handgun, maybe not quite so much on rifles but placing it there on my LR rifle is just part of making everything the same from shot to shot and feels natural so I pass that along to others when I see their thumb turning white with a death grip.

I'm no teacher, never claimed to be and don't want to ever be thought of as one but do try to offer help when asked and just show/tell how I do it and they can see if it'll help or not. Not always orthodox or the way the book says to do it but at least we're willing to offer help and not stand by and watch someone struggle.

Topstrap

 
Re: Keeping the wrists straight.

Topstrap,

I didn't mean to offend, by any means. Look, we're both in agreement about this thumb thing. You called it a death grip. If those forces are affecting the rifle negatively, they need to amend those forces. While you do it by way of placing a thumb in a certain way, ultimately, we're both accomplishing the same thing. I'm just saying that the location of the thumb matters not. Ultimately, it's all about the forces acting upon the rifle.

As to the OP, it sure seemed to me that he was discussing prone, unsupported (sling or no sling). I wanted to answer the mail. I think I did that, and hope it helped the guy (or girl).

As to my background, please don't think I'm stuck up or hoity-toity. I'm not, and I think any number of shooters would say that I'd be the first to help out. I love to teach. I did it professionally for many years, and I desire to continue to do so when occasions permit. I don't mean to attack you, but I ask you to re-read my second to last sentence in the prior post.

As far as I'm concerned, you and I are squared up. I mean no harm or ill will to you. I'm just trying to pass information on to the next group of shooters, because it does no good to humanity if we don't share our knowledge. Pete Gould said that, and I"m taking it to heart.
 
Re: Keeping the wrists straight.

No offense taken at all. The one thing I've learned in this as with other things that take time to learn the needed skills is that no one way is the perfect way for everyone. Lots of knowledge on here in many disciplines and we can all learn from each, I'm all ears and eyes at any type of competition I go to and pay attention when seeing someone doing something a bit different and making it work well for them. Easy to forget sometimes that we all love the shooting sports and need to realize all questions are asked in the desire to learn or solve a problem. Hard part sometimes is sorting thru it all and finding what answers it.

Great place here, I'm just glad they let me stay and join in occasionally
smile.gif


Topstrap
 
Re: Keeping the wrists straight.

Thanks for the great replies.

So the grip upon the pistol grip should have all force at the front of the pistol grip only?

Cheers
 
Re: Keeping the wrists straight.

OP,

Experiment. Look for a grip that will be comfortable. Comfort equals relaxed; and, relaxed means no muscular effort is exerted to maintain the grip. Muscle means movement. It thwarts results as it promotes inconsistency.Get a grip where bone supports a natural lay of the finger on the trigger. The whole idea here is the grip position should enhance SMOOTH trigger control.Dry firing will confirm your grasp of grip, which is one of five factors to a steady position. BTW, I grip my long range rifle very differently than my AR. That's because the pistol grip on the AR is not designed like the grip of the long range rifle. Attempting to force a notion of how to do it must therefore account for the shooter's physical stature, as well as the design of the firearm. I would not suggest to a novice shooter that he grip my long range rifle with HS Precision Marksman Stock as he would grip my AR. One other thing, you should have only enough pressure on the grip to support trigger control. If you are in anyway attempting to control aim with the grip you are exerting too much pressure.
 
I have a slight bend in my wrist when i shoot, straight feels weird but maybe thats just one my manners T4A