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6.5 Grendel Extreme feeding Issues (pics)

M

MAKO8551

Private
Minuteman
Oct 25, 2006
49
0
Fresno, CA
I ran into a guy at my local range with a 1st class Grendel build. Unfortunately is he was having one of the worst feeing issues I have ever seen in an AR. Anyone ever seen anything like this??
First of all this is a Factory Alexander Arms upper and he has already been on the phone with them and it is not a know issue. Second this only happens with Hornaday factory 6.5 Grendel. He has over two cases of the stuff and would like to be able to shoot it, or at the very least like to know what the cause is.

Issue happens on about the 4th or 5th round into every 10 round Alexander factory magazine.
Bolt closes 90% on damaged round
Extreme force needed to remove round from chamber
Plastic tip of bullet not damaged
No noticeable dings on leading edge of case neck
Deep scratches in double dents on case.
Unable to tell where the dents are orientated while round is chambered

I’m pretty sure I got the what. Just looking for the why. The deep cut in the dents tell me that they are not case bends, but mechanical dents from metal on metal contact. It looks like the case is misfeeding and getting pressed against the barrel feed ramps hence the symmetrical double dent. I just can’t figure what is causing the case to come out of alignment and forced over the feed ramps by closure of the bolt. Upper is already going to be sent back to Alexander with some of the ammo, but I’m still scratching my head…Help???
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Re: 6.5 Grendel Extreme feeding Issues (pics)

I had a Rock River LAR 8 do that to my brass every 2nd or 3rd round. RRA replaced my lower as it wasn't seating the mag correctly.
 
Re: 6.5 Grendel Extreme feeding Issues (pics)

My 6.5 Grende upper has the same issue with the Hornady 123 gr A-Max ammo feeding from a mag, I can however single feed with no problem.

Feeding from a mag with Alexander Arms 123 HP lapua Scenar ammo feeds just fine. I plan on calling AA tomorrow and see what they think about this Hornady feeding issue.
 
Re: 6.5 Grendel Extreme feeding Issues (pics)

I have a feeding issue with Hornady 150 gr in my R25, it doing almost the same thing, only one dent on the case though, not two. I don't understand why, my 168gr Black Hills just chug, my 150gr federal and Remington feed well too.

I am starting to wonder if the case is thinner or something odd metallurgical is going on with their brass. It seems the case hits the feed ramps and "dents".

I had an M1A that would jam the same Hornady 150gr's as well, it was the first rifle I had the jamming, I tried 5 different mags and it would present itself perhaps after 5 rounds or so.

I am not knocking Hornady, I love their ammo in my bolt guns, 7mag, 308, just confused as much as you all.
 
Re: 6.5 Grendel Extreme feeding Issues (pics)

Never does this on first round. Multiple 10rd Alexander Arms mags tried. Manually cycled a 10rd mag with no issues.
 
Re: 6.5 Grendel Extreme feeding Issues (pics)

the Hornady and Lapua brass headspace with different (min/max)
dimensions--the Hornady brass is unreliable in any of my rifles with the true Grendel chamber while the Lapua works perfectly

in a Grendle-clone chamber the Hornady and Lapua brass both operate admirably--in my rifles

Satern will re-cut the chamber in their match bbls to use Hornady ammo
 
Re: 6.5 Grendel Extreme feeding Issues (pics)

I only use Lapua and AA brass in my Grendel and have yet to have a problem. I didnt fall into the 123gr. Hornady A-MAX Factory ammo Frenzy when they come out with the factory ammo and brass.

I have yet to try it and never will. All I hear is people having problems with it.
 
Re: 6.5 Grendel Extreme feeding Issues (pics)

It almost looks like the bolt is hitting the case BEFORE it is chambered. Could this be a case where the bolt is short stroking and closing too fast?
 
Re: 6.5 Grendel Extreme feeding Issues (pics)

I put this up on several other forums and I'm getting a resounding "Bad Mag(s)" apparently Alexander Arms uses C-Products Magazines which have some documented issues. Apparently feed lips don't always allow the next round to pop up high enough for the blot to strip properly. Many have recommended using high quality 6.8 mags to resolve. We shall see...
 
Re: 6.5 Grendel Extreme feeding Issues (pics)

I can't shoot the Hornady ammo in my AA upper either. Not a single round chambers.

I don't know if the ammo is the issue, or the chamber, but I do know that the AA ammo shoots great, as do my hand loads.

Which barrel does he have. I have read (though don't know if the claims are true), that the Shilen barreled uppers from AA simply don't like and can't reliably load the Hornady ammo.
 
Re: 6.5 Grendel Extreme feeding Issues (pics)

Well I had slight feed issues with my mags at first but nothing like this! You have to run them for a while to get them worn in. Plus don't over load them!
 
Re: 6.5 Grendel Extreme feeding Issues (pics)

A public "thanks again" to Mako. I'm the guy that Mako ran into at the range with the Grendel troubles. I'd also like to thank you all for your input.
I had a pleasant conversation w/ Bill Alexander this A.M. He was gracious enough to take my call and answer any questions that I had. He offered to take back all of my 10 round mag's and replace them. I accepted his offer and will ship back in the A.M.
He also let me know that if by chance that turns out not to be the issue, he would get to the bottom of it and make it right. I am most pleased with the customer service at Alexander Arms. First class people.
Thanks Again.
 
Re: 6.5 Grendel Extreme feeding Issues (pics)

i'm glad you talked to bill. we've worked on a couple of different projects together and he is a really super guy. while i understand most all mags are 'supposed' to run just fine regardless of the weapon system, i've made a habit of adjusting feed lips on every custom chambering i make. whether it be 300WSM using 308AICS mags or 6.5G through AR mags... it is just a good policy as a smith to run several mags full of action proving dummies through to make sure all is well. i generally mark the bottom plate of the mag with the weapon serial number then so there is no confusion.

sounds like he has you all fixed up to me. let us know what transpires. again, i hold bill in high regard. he's a very reasonable person and pretty darn sharp...
wink.gif


thanks to mako for providing some information.
 
Re: 6.5 Grendel Extreme feeding Issues (pics)

Although the mag is the first place to look most of the time, having all from the same maker allows a check for specimen defects but not a common design or batch/specimen defect.

However, I would still look at the interplay of the boltface and the casehead/extractor rim on the feeding cycle. Something goofy there could prevent the rear of the cartridge from properly sliding up when the case shoulder is up on what passes for a feed ramp in that AR system. Speed is a factor, which is why hand-cycling so often shows no problems.

Off the top of my head, I can suggest that you look at how "sharp" the face of the casehead is. For example, a few brands of .40 S&W brass I've run into have an actual 45-degree bevel on that corner, the flat just less than equal to half the thickness of the rim. That supposedly makes feeding smoother, as the rim is less likely to hang up on any uneven parts of a slide's "boltface". There is a different dynamic but the principles are the same with a recessed bolt face, and the "rim" on the bolt being the surface that the caseheads have to slide up on as the case rotates on the horizontal "end over end" axis into the chamber.

Look for hairline size gouges or impact/slide'gouging marks on the casehead and edge of the extractor rim.

Three things can do this, alone or in any combination--sharp-cornered ammo, funky surfaces on the bolt contact area(s) for the feed in part of the operating cycle, or magazines that for one or more of several reasons point the cartridge wrong (usually too low, or releasing at the wrong time).

There is even a remote possibility that the feed lips are letting an occasional round rise UP too far as the fired case is being extracted, resulting in locking lugs whacking the case on the rearward stroke.

Regardless of the cause, the result of the case dents is enough brass out of round that there are bulged out areas that jam in the chamber. Not a happy thing, obviously.
 
Re: 6.5 Grendel Extreme feeding Issues (pics)

Came across this because I was also having feeding issues in a new 6.5 grendel build. Thought it was catching on the barrel extension lugs or the edge of barrel chamber as it was leaving so bad mars on my lapua brass. After a lot of polishing and experimentation I discovered it wasn't either. My feed issues were due to my ejector pin sticking out too far. it was pinching against the back lip of the brass causing the side of the brass to ram into the lugs and chamber edge. Took the pin out and ground/filed 1/32" off. Put the bolt back together and it feeds flawlessly now!
 
Re: 6.5 Grendel Extreme feeding Issues (pics)

I had the same issue on my Grendel, except my brass didn't look as bad as yours did. Turns out it was a bad bolt (Supplied bolt with my Satern barrel). I sent it back and received a new bolt and now it functions flawlessly.
 
Re: 6.5 Grendel Extreme feeding Issues (pics)

I never had a problem feeding the Hornady. Only ejecting and that was all makers. Lapua, AA, Win fire-formed, Fed fire-formed, and Hornady.
I too had a bolt supplied by Satern. Once they replaced it I never had a feeding problem again. My issue is why is Hornady 123 gr. A-max getting the two dents when nothing else will. I did fire a box of this through the rifle, just to verify it fed and what velocity it was running at. I had no problems with it.
 
Re: 6.5 Grendel Extreme feeding Issues (pics)

I had the same problem about a year ago. It was the ejector pin as discussed above.

The over-length pin is preventing the case head from sliding into the bolt face. The angled round is then jammed into the barrel extension when feeding.

Take out the ejector pin, chuck it in a drill, and run it against sandpaper to shorten it very slightly and chamfer the edges. Put a nice polish on it with very fine sandpaper.

As added insurance, you can also chuck Grendel cases into a 1/2" drill and hold a file at a 45 degree angle against the spinning case head for about a second or so to break the sharp edge of the case head.

--Roothost
 
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