Tell me about he 6mmAR round.

[jmichael99]

I have a AR15 stripped upper and lower that are lonely

Been thinking of a precision AR build. At first i was thinking of a .223 build but then someone told me about the 6mmAR round. Iv been wanting a 6mmBR bolt gun too so if its the same type of round i might go this route for now and built the bolt gun later.

My main concern is barrel life. I cant find any good info on this.

Iv been reading the 6mmAr website but would also like to hear from some people that use the round and there thoughts.

FYI I do reload

This will mainly be a toy but i will probably shoot F Class with it as well. and while rare i may kill a deer at long range.. but i really doubt ill hunt with it

 

[steve123]

Re: Tell me about he 6mmAR round.

I have the 40 degree shoulder version. I bet you could get 3500-4000 rounds out of it but that depends on what level of accuracy you are happy with.

 

[GTBAF333]

Re: Tell me about he 6mmAR round.

+1, I got a billet Mega set sitting waiting on a decision...been pondering a 6mmAR as well

GREG

 

[brianidaho]

Re: Tell me about he 6mmAR round.

Is Robert Whitley the only one building (or offering barrels/bolts) chambered for the 6mmAR T40? If not, who has barrels and bolts available, or what would it cost to get one chambered for it?

 

[xNF_9]

Re: Tell me about he 6mmAR round.

6mmAR barrel

I found this site, and ordered one today. They said they have 12 left or so, they are cheap because it requires an AR10 gas tube. They also sell the key, so you're good there. Got the barrel, key, and the bolt for $320. Hopefully it shoots.

 

[brianidaho]

Re: Tell me about he 6mmAR round.

Man, that's a great deal. I may have to order one when I get home tonight.

 

[JLR]

Re: Tell me about he 6mmAR round.

I just put together a 6BRX using an AR Performance bolt and extension and will be testing it out this weekend hopefully. Last weekend was spent fireforming brass and breaking in the barrel. It shows accuracy promise for sure, but I won't know much else until I can shoot some hot loads through it.

 

[steve123]

Re: Tell me about he 6mmAR round.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: brianidaho</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is Robert Whitley the only one building (or offering barrels/bolts) chambered for the 6mmAR T40? If not, who has barrels and bolts available, or what would it cost to get one chambered for it? </div></div>

I don't know the specifics but there is a 6.5G based wildcat similar to my cartridge called 6mmRAT.

 

[brianidaho]

Re: Tell me about he 6mmAR round.

Arrrggh. I've been spending quite a bit of time researching the variety of 6mm rounds for the AR...and am getting more confused the more I dig. And yes, that includes using the search function on this site. (OP, I hope I'm not hijacking your thread too badly, if so, tell me and I'll start a new one).

So....what ones are out there and what are the advantages/disadvantages of each. Just with a few evenings of research I've come across:

6mm AR
6mm AR Turbo
6mm AR Turbo 40 (improved)
6mm PPC
6mm BR
6mm BRX
6mm AR-P
.243 LBC
6mm RAT
6mm Dasher

It seems like there were others as well. I have done some searching...but it doesn't seem like there is a consensus as to any one "best" round (depending on application) of these.

So, it seems like several of these are based on the 6.5 Grendel, which in turn is based on the 6mm PPC, which IIRC is based on the .220 Russian. What are the differences between the 6mm AR, the 6mm RAT, the 243 LBC and the 6mm AR-P (this last one I have found almost nothing about)? And...if I understand correctly, the 6.5 Grendel is a 6 PPC opened up to 6.5, and a 6mm AR is a 6.5 Grendel necked down to 6mm...what is the difference between a 6mm AR and a 6 PPC?

Equally important, are there reasonably priced (say <$500) barrels and bolt sets available for any of these, as opposed to buying a custom upper from a high-end builder?

I'm sooo confused! LOL Thanks for any help or clairification.

 

[axeltow]

Re: Tell me about he 6mmAR round.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: brianidaho</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Arrrggh. I've been spending quite a bit of time researching the variety of 6mm rounds for the AR...and am getting more confused the more I dig. And yes, that includes using the search function on this site.

So....what ones are out there and what are the advantages/disadvantages of each. Just with a few evenings of research I've come across:

6mm AR
6mm AR Turbo
6mm AR Turbo 40 (improved)
6mm PPC
6mm BR
6mm BRX
6mm AR-P
.243 LBC
6mm RAT
6mm Dasher

It seems like there were others as well. I have done some searching...but it doesn't seem like there is a consensus as to any one "best" round (depending on application) of these.

So, it seems like several of these are based on the 6.5 Grendel, which in turn is based on the 6mm PPC, which IIRC is based on the .220 Russian. What are the differences between the 6mm AR, the 6mm RAT, the 243 LBC and the 6mm AR-P (this last one I have found almost nothing about)? And...if I understand correctly, the 6.5 Grendel is a 6 PPC opened up to 6.5, and a 6mm AR is a 6.5 Grendel necked down to 6mm...what is the difference between a 6mm AR and a 6 PPC?

Equally important, are there reasonably priced (say <$500) barrels and bolt sets available for any of these, as opposed to buying a custom upper from a high-end builder?

I'm sooo confused! LOL Thanks for any help or clairification. </div></div>
check out ar15 performance. he does some wildcat cartridges and his barrels are reasonably priced.

 

[brianidaho]

Re: Tell me about he 6mmAR round.

I have been, especially after seeing N9's post. Unfortunately, the "online store" at that site is closed due to order volume. I'm hoping the insanity passes pretty quickly and things settle down.

 

[steve123]

Re: Tell me about he 6mmAR round.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: brianidaho</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Arrrggh. I've been spending quite a bit of time researching the variety of 6mm rounds for the AR...and am getting more confused the more I dig. And yes, that includes using the search function on this site. (OP, I hope I'm not hijacking your thread too badly, if so, tell me and I'll start a new one).

So....what ones are out there and what are the advantages/disadvantages of each. Just with a few evenings of research I've come across:

6mm AR
6mm AR Turbo
6mm AR Turbo 40 (improved)
6mm PPC
6mm BR
6mm BRX
6mm AR-P
.243 LBC
6mm RAT
6mm Dasher

It seems like there were others as well. I have done some searching...but it doesn't seem like there is a consensus as to any one "best" round (depending on application) of these.

So, it seems like several of these are based on the 6.5 Grendel, which in turn is based on the 6mm PPC, which IIRC is based on the .220 Russian. What are the differences between the 6mm AR, the 6mm RAT, the 243 LBC and the 6mm AR-P (this last one I have found almost nothing about)? And...if I understand correctly, the 6.5 Grendel is a 6 PPC opened up to 6.5, and a 6mm AR is a 6.5 Grendel necked down to 6mm...what is the difference between a 6mm AR and a 6 PPC?

Equally important, are there reasonably priced (say <$500) barrels and bolt sets available for any of these, as opposed to buying a custom upper from a high-end builder?

I'm sooo confused! LOL Thanks for any help or clairification. </div></div>

There's at least a few 6mm's based off 6.8SPC as well.

I tried a 243WSM in a AR once, frustrated with reliability, among other issues and didn't like single stacking in a double stack mag. I advise sticking with 6.5G or 6.8 based wildcats to take advantage of the extra mag capacity. The 6.8 cases would likely bring the most reliability but the downside is that you'd be better off using 95 grain and lighter bullets because of the longer length of the case.

 

[brianidaho]

Re: Tell me about he 6mmAR round.

Yeah, I was just looking into some more I stumbled across, not sure where they fit in.

6 x 6.8 is a designation I see.
6PDk
6 WOA
(i'm not sure what these are based on)

Like I say...getting a bit overwhelmed!

 

[nhm16]

Re: Tell me about he 6mmAR round.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: brianidaho</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yeah, I was just looking into some more I stumbled across, not sure where they fit in.

6 x 6.8 is a designation I see.
6PDk
6 WOA
(i'm not sure what these are based on)

Like I say...getting a bit overwhelmed!

</div></div>

6 WOA is 6.8 SPC necked down.

There's also the 6mm Hagar, which is based on the 6.8 SPC's parent case, the 35 Rem. However you can't form Hagar cases from 6.8 SPC cases because theys are too short, you have to start with 35 Rem. cases.

Thankfully you can now get Hornady brass, and thus if you want to do the minimum amount of case forming work, is probably the way to go.

You use 6.8 SPC bolts and magazines, which generally seems to be a good thing reliability-wise compared to using Grendel/7.62x39 bolts and magazines. With PRI 6.8 mags you can load them to almost 2.3" (seems to be the only downside of this case, the OAL is so long that you can't really load 105gr class bullets to the standard 2.26" mag length).

More Hagar information:
http://6mmar.com/6mm_HAGAR.php
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2012/06/6mm-hagar-hornady-brass-arrives-varminters-take-note/

 

[Chupacabra]

Re: Tell me about he 6mmAR round.

+1 for ar15performance I have two of there barrels and super bolts.

I also want to put together a 6mm AR for long range shootin. I even bought a box of lapua grendel brass. I like the sounds of the 6BRX vs the 6mmAR but and have done a good bit of searching trying to figure out the differences.

I think the easiest and cheapest route is the 6.8 necked down. Supposedly the 6.8 diam was chosen for the spc round because it is a compromise between the superior accuracy of a 6mm and the superior terminal performance of the 7mm. Makes me wish I had a both a 6mm ar and 7mm ar and didn't compromise on either.

 

[Hellbender]

Re: Tell me about he 6mmAR round.

Here's the one I built for the PRS Series, 6mmAR....

All the good stuff, 25" Krieger, etc. Shoots well.

 

[Chupacabra]

Re: Tell me about he 6mmAR round.

brainidaho:
I had the same thoughts about the 6ppc-grendel-6mmAR case evolution.
this pages helps: http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek068.html

now try wrapping your head around the 6BRX parent case is 6mmBR instead of PPC.

 

[Bronco]

Re: Tell me about he 6mmAR round.

Having shot the 6 RAT for several years at DMR type matches and using it some for yote hunting I'm impressed with the round. The 6 RAT may be the best option for those wishing to build their own upper. That is why I chose it over some of the other "turn key uppers".

Needing only a barrel (mine is 22" 1 in 7.5 twist), dies and Grendal bolt it's a quick build. Fireforming the brass is also quite easy, just neck down the 6.5 Grendal brass in 6 RAT dies making sure the false shoulder is properly headspaced. A plus is that the fireforming loads are very accurate. With the 40* shoulder I've never had to trim, even after 10 firings.

You can load 105 class bullets to mag length and push them 2750 easy. All the one's I've been around shoot the 105 AMAX very well, 87 gr. V-max @ 3000 plays hell with P-dogs.

Using the Alexander Arms mags I've had no feeding issues. Expect 4 to 5000 rounds out of this barrel. It has around 1500 on it now and is sub 1/2 moa.

There are a lot of ways to skin this 6 mm cat, this is one of the cheaper and simipler methods.

 

[bustin]

Re: Tell me about he 6mmAR round.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: brianidaho</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yeah, I was just looking into some more I stumbled across, not sure where they fit in.

6 x 6.8 is a designation I see.
6PDk
6 WOA
(i'm not sure what these are based on)

Like I say...getting a bit overwhelmed!

</div></div>
The problem with full length 6.8 cases and 6mm bullets is you can't use the 95gr SMK or Berger. You need to use a shortened 6.8 case or a Grendel case(6mmAR) to use 95s.
If 10 rounds is enough in a mag then the 6BR or 6 BRX are both a lot faster and probably more accurate or easier to tune due to the case size working better with the powders that work best.

 

[tbird1960]

Re: Tell me about he 6mmAR round.

I have two 6x45 AR's. This is the 223 round necked up to 6mm and all you do is run the 223 brass in the full length die and you are ready to load it. I shoot the 87 gr HPBT and have had real good luck with it. It does not require a different bolt but uses the same bolt that the 223 does.

 

[leadbullet]

Re: Tell me about he 6mmAR round.

I have a 6MM AR, it is such a fun rifle to shoot, a 105 at 2800 FPS out of a mag, what is not to love, hits at 600 are easy, 800 a little tougher but not impossible.
I highly recomand it.

 

[Jerry m]

Re: Tell me about he 6mmAR round.

6mm Hagar has been picked up by Hornady who have begun making brass and ammunition. Something to consider http://www.6mmhagar.com/

good luck

Jerry

 

[Erud]

Re: Tell me about he 6mmAR round.

I shoot the 6mm Turbo 40 for NRA Highpower matches and I think it is an excellent cartridge. Feeds perfectly well from all of C-Products mags I have, though I generally only load 5 rounds each for matches. Fire forming is easy and loads are very accurate. I have shot 3000 fire-forming loads at 200 and 300 yards during matches with no trouble. Plenty accurate to clean 300 yard rapid-fire target. For 600 yards on in, I don't think it gives up much to anything and I've shot lots of clean 200's with high X-counts at 600 yards. It will also shoot reasonably well at 1k if wind isn't too bad. For shooting gongs etc at 1k it'll do pretty well, but if you are shooting for score, it'll get eaten up by the guys with more horsepower. I've got about 7k rounds through my 2 uppers in the last 2 seasons.

Great round for my particular application.

Regards,
Erik

 

[SUIScide]

Re: Tell me about he 6mmAR round.

I had been planning on a 6mm AR15 upper build, but made the mistake of waiting to see if I got any cash for Christmas...
So it looks like it'll be awhile so I've got some more time to think on this. I had been planning on a 243 LBC barrel from Black hole. I've seen pretty mixed reviews on their barrels. What's the real story? I'd like to get a barrel from Mr Whitley since it seems he kind of came up with necked down Grendel, but does he sell just barrels? The HAGAR might fit my needs to but brass may be limited and who makes the barrels? Bronco how does the 6mm RAT differ from the 243lbc/6mmAR? Where did you get your barrel/dies? My dad and brother both have Grendels I'm just looking for something a little different (and a little flatter!). Since no one seems to have 7.62x39 size bolts in stock I guess this project may take awhile.

 

[nhm16]

Re: Tell me about he 6mmAR round.

I think Whitley sells complete uppers only. AFAIK 6mm AR and its variants Re only available through him as a complete upper. However you can get 6mm WOA, 6mm RAT, 6mm Hagar, and others as barrels only.

 

[Bronco]

Re: Tell me about he 6mmAR round.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SUIScide</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I had been planning on a 6mm AR15 upper build, but made the mistake of waiting to see if I got any cash for Christmas...
So it looks like it'll be awhile so I've got some more time to think on this. I had been planning on a 243 LBC barrel from Black hole. I've seen pretty mixed reviews on their barrels. What's the real story? I'd like to get a barrel from Mr Whitley since it seems he kind of came up with necked down Grendel, but does he sell just barrels? The HAGAR might fit my needs to but brass may be limited and who makes the barrels? Bronco how does the 6mm RAT differ from the 243lbc/6mmAR? Where did you get your barrel/dies? My dad and brother both have Grendels I'm just looking for something a little different (and a little flatter!). Since no one seems to have 7.62x39 size bolts in stock I guess this project may take awhile. </div></div>

I chose the 6 RAT after trying to get just a barrel and bolt from Whitley. While at a match I got to talking with another shooter about wanting a 6mm AR and he had been through the same thing and decided to just build it himself. The 6 RAT (Refined AR Technology) was born so do it yourselfers had a viable cartridge to work with. It varies from the original 6mm AR only slightly, I think it was shoulder angle and how far foward the shoulder is pushed. The dies are available from Hornaday, I got my barrel from White Oak along with the matching bolt.

 

[blksno]

Re: Tell me about he 6mmAR round.

Leaving the WSSM out of the conversation is a huge mistake.

 

[GTBAF333]

Re: Tell me about he 6mmAR round.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tbird1960</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have two 6x45 AR's. This is the 223 round necked up to 6mm and all you do is run the 223 brass in the full length die and you are ready to load it. I shoot the 87 gr HPBT and have had real good luck with it. It does not require a different bolt but uses the same bolt that the 223 does. </div></div>

What kind of speeds are you getting? I don't know much about the round, but doesn't seem too much advantage over slinging a 223 77gr SMK just because of a bolt?

GREG

 

[SUIScide]

Re: Tell me about he 6mmAR round.

The 6x45 should shot a 75 grain bullet 100 fps faster than a 223 according to the Hodgdon site

 

[JLR]

Re: Tell me about he 6mmAR round.

Just an update on my little 6BRX project. I was able to get 95gr SMK to around 3200fps and 105 Hybrids to 3050 in some limited testing. Next batch of testing is with the Hornady 105BTHP and some different powders trying to find a good accurate load. Everything I've shot through it so far has been around .75moa, but I haven't really focused much on accuracy.

 

[xNF_9]

Re: Tell me about he 6mmAR round.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JLR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just an update on my little 6BRX project. I was able to get 95gr SMK to around 3200fps and 105 Hybrids to 3050 in some limited testing. Next batch of testing is with the Hornady 105BTHP and some different powders trying to find a good accurate load. Everything I've shot through it so far has been around .75moa, but I haven't really focused much on accuracy. </div></div>

Just wondering what yardage your testing these groups at. I have a 6mmAR on order and the 6BRX looks like a good alternative AR15 caliber also.

 

[bustin]

Re: Tell me about he 6mmAR round.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JLR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just an update on my little 6BRX project. I was able to get 95gr SMK to around 3200fps and 105 Hybrids to 3050 in some limited testing. Next batch of testing is with the Hornady 105BTHP and some different powders trying to find a good accurate load. Everything I've shot through it so far has been around .75moa, but I haven't really focused much on accuracy. </div></div>
Try 36gr N550 with the 95smk, 33gr RE15. Not sure where your lands start but I was loading them to 2.295.

105 Amax-31.5gr Varget, 34.5 N550

 

[JLR]

Re: Tell me about he 6mmAR round.

bustin,

The 36g N550 and the 95smk shot pretty decent at 2.300, but I'm really wanting to get one of the 105g bullets to work since they will easily stay under any of the 3100fps speed limits being imposed by the match directors these days. I've loaded up a batch of the 105 Hornadys ranging from 35-36g of N550 so we'll see what happens. Also giving H4350 a try, but I suspect that the case will fill up long before any real velocity is achieved. That 34.5g seems a little low compared to what I've seen you post in the past? Weren't you running upwards of 36+ with a 105???

 

[bustin]

Re: Tell me about he 6mmAR round.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JLR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">bustin,

The 36g N550 and the 95smk shot pretty decent at 2.300, but I'm really wanting to get one of the 105g bullets to work since they will easily stay under any of the 3100fps speed limits being imposed by the match directors these days. I've loaded up a batch of the 105 Hornadys ranging from 35-36g of N550 so we'll see what happens. Also giving H4350 a try, but I suspect that the case will fill up long before any real velocity is achieved. That 34.5g seems a little low compared to what I've seen you post in the past? Weren't you running upwards of 36+ with a 105??? </div></div>
At max loads I did use more but I have a few .4" groups with that load. I think you are right about the 4350 and R17 both are a little slow. 550 is near the same burn rate but the sticks are smaller so you can get more in the case. We're so busy I don't have time to shoot much now I've probably only had 10 days shooting this last BRX. Who ever bought my last 22" Krieger BRX has one hell of a shooter. It was shooting the 95 SMKs into .2"