About to buy first bolt gun and have questions

[Bullhed78]

It is time for me to step into the bolt action ring. I have a total budget of $1,000 for now. This rifle will be used mostly for hunting and enough range time for me to become and stay proficient with it at varies ranges/conditions. It needs to be durable enough to survive hunting conditions, light enough that it can be carried comfortably on a days hunt and accurate enough to make humane kills out to 400-500 yards tops.
Here are my thoughts on what I want. Mind you, I am a complete virgin when it comes to bolt guns. Please critique my views if need be. I am posting this for constructive criticism so I don't make a big mistake my first time. After much contemplating I have decided on .30-06. I am pretty sure my base is going to be a Savage 116 Trophy Hunter XP for $575(stainless steel, basic synthetic stock, 22" barrel, drop mag, Accutrigger, Nikon scope). I know the stock is cheap but I plan on immediately replacing it with a Hogue over molded stock (pillar bedded $100, full bed $200). I have a Hogue stock on my 10/22 and love the feel of it, it just seems to fit. I also realize that this is a different beast than a .22 is pillar bedded sufficient, is full bed worth the extra $100 or am I making a big mistake going with a Hogue? I am also a little ashamed to say that I am recoil shy (It started out as a 14 year old boy shooting a .338 win mag). Anyhow, I have retrained myself to shoot and lost the flinch but don't ever want it back so I plan to have a break installed $200.
So here is my "build" idea.
Savage 116 Trophy Hunter XP with scope $575
Hogue full bed stock $200
Professionally installed muzzle break $200
Total:$975
How'd I do? Thank you again for looking and I look forward to feedback.

 

[Lafayette]

Re: About to buy first bolt gun and have questions

I can think of a few ways I rather see you spend $975. Give me a few minutes ill find something or give you my thoughts.

 

[WinXD]

Re: About to buy first bolt gun and have questions

I think for a hunting setup you did a great job. I agree about the brake for the .30-06 if you are recoil shy. It definitely packs a punch, especially with a lighter rifle.

Are you going to paint the stainless barrel?

As for as the Hogue stock, that's such a personal call that if it fits for you then go for it! I like a bit thinner stock for a hunting rifle.. again, personal choice.

Enjoy it!

 

[MadCountyDep]

Re: About to buy first bolt gun and have questions

for the range your talking about...

Ruger American $450 (no pillar bedding needed)
SS 10x42 $299
Burris zee rings $75
Harris bipod $80

TOTAL $904 and you'll be much better off until your ready to go full custom.

also, if you don't mind me asking, what game are you hunting? If it's deer, I'd suggest a.243.... minimal recoil and with 105gr pills it will anchor bambi with authority.

 

[Lafayette]

Re: About to buy first bolt gun and have questions

I like this rifle

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3817908&gonew=1#UNREAD

 

[Lafayette]

Re: About to buy first bolt gun and have questions

I like this one too - little big for hunting though


http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3770951&gonew=1#UNREAD

 

[Bullhed78]

Re: About to buy first bolt gun and have questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lafayette</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I like this rifle

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3817908&gonew=1#UNREAD </div></div>
I thought about the Remington Mountain SS but have some apprehensions about the "safety" issue. I realize it may be media hype and you don't ever point a gun at something you don't want destroy but I have to admit it is one reason I shied away from Remington. Also that is a .270 and I'm stuck on the -06

 

[223Rem]

Re: About to buy first bolt gun and have questions

Why not a .308?

The .30-06 has nothing over the .308 at that distance.

A shorter action will decrease the the overall weight of the rifle as well as being a bit more rigid in the action.

The the recoil will be reduced to a point where you may not need a muzzlebrake.

 

[asbestosglove]

Re: About to buy first bolt gun and have questions

There is no safety issue. ^^^^^ Total media creation. I too am stuck on the 06. AG

 

[Bullhed78]

Re: About to buy first bolt gun and have questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MadCountyDep</div><div class="ubbcode-body">for the range your talking about...

Ruger American $450 (no pillar bedding needed)
SS 10x42 $299
Burris zee rings $75
Harris bipod $80

TOTAL $904 and you'll be much better off until your ready to go full custom.

also, if you don't mind me asking, what game are you hunting? If it's deer, I'd suggest a.243.... minimal recoil and with 105gr pills it will anchor bambi with authority. </div></div>
I looked at the Ruger and it didn't quite do it for me and I don't think there is much aftermarket support for that rifle yet. I realize that this may be a evolving build as I learn what I like and don't like so I don't want to get "stuck" with a rifle I can't change. As far as game to be hunted; anything from whitetail, to mule deer, to black bear, caribou, elk, you name it. I want this to be as versatile rifle as possible. I'm of the opinion that I'm better off with a few rifles I can shoot well than a bunch of rifles I can shoot fair. In Michigan I use my AR15 carbine chambered in 5.56 to anchor whitetail using 64gr Federal Power Shok's. I love that gun for my deer woods situation. It does the job very well.

 

[Bullhed78]

Re: About to buy first bolt gun and have questions

A few reasons and nothing against the 308. I was almost going to go .308 but all of my friends hunt with -06 and commonality amongst friends can be a good thing. I already have a BAR in -06 in the safe so no need to add another caliber of rounds to the inventory. Oh, and speaking of inventory .308 is damn near impossible to find right now. The good old .30-06 "Fudd" round is everywhere. Again, nothing against the .308 I almost went that route. .

 

[Bullhed78]

Re: About to buy first bolt gun and have questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WinXD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think for a hunting setup you did a great job. I agree about the brake for the .30-06 if you are recoil shy. It definitely packs a punch, especially with a lighter rifle.

Are you going to paint the stainless barrel?

As for as the Hogue stock, that's such a personal call that if it fits for you then go for it! I like a bit thinner stock for a hunting rifle.. again, personal choice.

Enjoy it! </div></div>
After doing some research stainless seems to be the way to go as far as durability but I would probably do something to "hide" the stainless for hunting. How important is full bed vs. pillar bed in the Hogue stock for an application like I would be using it?

 

[Jhnmdahl]

Re: About to buy first bolt gun and have questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lafayette</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I like this rifle

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3817908&gonew=1#UNREAD </div></div>

That would be a much better package. And a .270 is just a 30-06 case with a flatter, faster bullet stuck in the end

John

 

[Bullhed78]

Re: About to buy first bolt gun and have questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jhnmdahl</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lafayette</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I like this rifle

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3817908&gonew=1#UNREAD </div></div>

That would be a much better package. And a .270 is just a 30-06 case with a flatter, faster bullet stuck in the end

John </div></div>
I'm truly not trying to be a smart ass but what makes this a better package? I am honestly trying to learn the ropes of bolt actions.

 

[seanh]

Re: About to buy first bolt gun and have questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: asbestosglove</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is no safety issue. ^^^^^ Total media creation. I too am stuck on the 06. AG</div></div>

Actually they do have a safety issue...I've seen it happen at the range as an RO, had it happen to me and a number of customers...none were on guns that were triggers that were too light, one on a factory setting...it's simply flawed, at least the original is.

Though there is a solution...don't load a round until you're ready to shoot. Oh, and if you don't want to shoot...open the bolt or take the round out...never use the safety.

 

[WinXD]

Re: About to buy first bolt gun and have questions

You can get some flex in the stock with a pillar bed which would affect accuracy, so a full bed might be worth the extra money. I dont have a Hogue stock so I dont know if this is an issue or not.

 

[JB02]

Re: About to buy first bolt gun and have questions

Please don't take offense, but before people on this forum can suggest options that would meet your requirements, you've set unnecessary constraints. How do you know that 30-06 is right for you? How do you know that the stock you are looking for is sufficient?

Set your requirements as follows (for example):
- My budget is $1000; don't need anything fancy
- Primary purpose is hunting; limited target shooting
- My skill level is low (?); I need something to develop it
- I don't reload (?)
- I don't like recoil (that's what you said above)
- The distance I will target shoot is ...
- The game I intend to hunt is ...
- The distances I intend to engage game will be ...

With these requirements set, people can give you much better advise.

Here is what I will tell you (these are my suggestions ... you need to do this evaluation yourself and make this clear to people):
- You are not in the market for a custom built gun or premium factory
- You don't require a "tactical style" bolt gun or any of its features (muzzle brake, detachable box mag, oversize bolt knob, etc)
- Since you probably don't reload, that let's people know to exclude options like 6.5x47L, 284 Win, 280 Rem, etc. For factory ammo, you will have best luck with 243 winchester, 6.5mm creedmoor, 308 winchester, 270 winchester, and 30-06.
- A short action, non magnum will suit you best unless you intend on engaging targets at long range (which I doubt given your stated inexperience). Unless you are willing to buy a 22LR to develop your shooting as well, stay away from the '06. A 30-06 kicks (you said you don't like recoil, so don't buy a gun that hits hard). A 270 is a "little bit" more forgiving. A 308 is more manageable. 6.5mm or smaller is preferred.
- Given your requirements, I would say that the three chamberings you should consider are 243 winchester, 6.5mm creedmoor, and 308 winchester. If you're willing to buy ammo online or there's a large gun retailer near you, 6.5 creedmoor will give you the best ballistic performance; but if you're only going to shoot inside 400 yds, get a 308 because barrel life is better and ammo is more readily available.

Now, with calibers like these in mind, search for a factory bolt rifle you can afford. If I was you, I would look at either a Rem 700 or a Savage 12 LRP. Perhaps others can suggest options that would fit the bill. In any event, limit this purchase to $650. Don't constrain yourself to a particular brand of rifle or stock, get what you can afford that meets your requirements. A Rem 700 has resale value because if you want to move on you can easily sell it, or you can use it as a donor receiver for a custom gun to build when you have more money.

Buy a scope that will cost you ~ $350 dollars. Your scope doesn't need FFP, obscene magnification, illumination, or any of that crap. Concentrate on getting quality glass. What you are looking for is a large field of view (low setting of 2.5-3) and decent transmission ability in low light. Take a look at the Nikon Monarch line or Zeiss Conquest, but there are other options available too (e.g., Vortex).

Don't forget that you're going to want a base, rings, bipod, shooting bag, range membership, case, single piece rod and bore guide with appropriate jigs/brush and bore shine, muffs, and glasses. All that stuff adds up and it's very easy to blow a pile of money on accessories and scope mounts.

Welcome to the Hide!

 

[Bullhed78]

Re: About to buy first bolt gun and have questions

No offense taken. Actually, quite the opposite. This is why I made the post is to get constructive criticism. To answer your questions.
Set your requirements as follows (for example):
- My budget is $1000; don't need anything fancy
A: Correct, I also don't want junk.
- Primary purpose is hunting; limited target shooting
A: Spot on
- My skill level is low (?); I need something to develop it
A: I am an above average shooter that has developed my skill level in AR15 type rifles and handguns. No, I'm not by any means a tacticool mall ninja. I developed a love for hunting with AR15 and use handguns to protect myself and my family. I believe both of these activities deserve the respect of knowing how to handle and very effectively shoot you weapon. I am very proficient with these 2 platforms but am a complete noob with bolt action rifles. Whatever bolt I buy I WILL become proficient with it.
- I don't reload (?)
A: I do not reload. I do not have any desire to at this point. I do have a friend that reloads .223 and .30-06
- I don't like recoil (that's what you said above)
A: Correct, I don't think anybody likes recoil. My fear of recoil comes from the fear of not wanting the dreaded flinch to come back. Here is that back story: When I was 14 years old my father bought me a Browning BAR .338 win mag for my first rifle. As a 14 year old that rifle taught me 2 things very well. First, when you pull the trigger it's going to hurt like hell. Hence the flinch. Second, you will never have to track deer because they fall down right where you shot them (I know you should never say never but that is my experience.)
- The distance I will target shoot is ...
A: I will regularly shoot out to 200 yards. Anything over that would be very hit or miss out to 500 yards. I am still trying to find a place fairly close to me that has a 500 yard range.
- The game I intend to hunt is ...
A: Most any North American big game with the exception of brown bear and moose. I have the .338 for that. Like I said, I am a guy that wants a few guns that I'm very good with. Not a bunch of guns that I'm OK with so I don't want to have to buy several different calibers to be game specific.
- The distances I intend to engage game will be ...
A: As of right now I would not take a shot over 400 yards, 100 yards would be the norm. I'm not saying I don't want to have the ability to take game past 400 yards but that is not a skill set that I have developed yet. Again, this goes back to my strong belief that if I am using a tool for a job as critical as hunting or self defense I want to be very proficient and confident in my skill level.

Just to add to this a bit. I am not a new shooter by any means. Just new to bolt actions. I do shoot a fair amount to hone my skills and make sure I don't lose them. This is mostly done with my .223 because that has become my "go to" rifle. I just sold an AR platformed .308 about 2 months ago because I found it to be bigger and heavier than I would want to drag around the woods all day. It was a good blind gun but a bolt action can fill the needs of a walking gun and a blind gun. Again, I don't need one gun for each little niche. Recoil on the .308 did not bother me. I was shooting 1 3/4" groups at 200 yards with it and it was a 16" carbine that had been tuned up a bit (nothing outrageous). So, back to the .30-06 decision. I have retrained myself to shoot since I was that young boy with a .338 win mag and the flinch which is long gone. All of my friends shoot -06. Don't get me wrong, I don't have to have what all the "cool" kids have but I think that commonality amongst hunting buddies can be a good thing in a pinch. If there is a good reason not to use -06 I may change my mind. Hell, I hunt MI whitetail with a .223 because it works great for me. That's not exactly a popular decision but I'm willing to fight that fight because that round has proven itself to me time and time again for my situation. I would muzzle break the .30-06 to make sure the flinch stays at bay but would practice with the rifle with the break on and off because I would want to be proficient with it both ways (there are some guides that don't allow breaks).
Again thanks for all of the input everyone.

 

[Lafayette]

Re: About to buy first bolt gun and have questions

30-06 is an over powered cartridge for your intended application. From everything you've said I think you should very strongly consider .243 or .270. I made the mistake of buying an over powered bolt action even with many many years of shooting experience with other platforms.

Good luck and welcome

 

[Bullhed78]

Re: About to buy first bolt gun and have questions

OK. So it sounds like I will reconsider the cartridge. What are people's thoughts on the Hogue stock? Pillar bed or full bed?