Rifle Scopes AR-15 scopes. - reaching out with a 1.5-5x20mm

[lavaspit]

Im deciding between two scopes for my AR-15. Its specifically a Sig Sauer 556 Swat patrol. That doesn't matter except that its a very heavy rifle. nearly twice the weight of an American AR.

I like the 5x magnification, 20mm bell on a mono-mount approach. I've found these 2 to compare:

Leupold VX-3 1.5-5x20mm Rifle Scope Matte Finish and Heavy Duplex Reticle: $399.99


Leupold Mark 4 MR/T 1.5-5x20mm (30mm) M2 Matte Illum. SPR Rifle Scope: $899.00

Id like to know the main difference between the two, why the big price gap, and if its worth it to go with the more expensive one (and why). Im not familiar with this kind of optic, I have only used scoped with 40mm + bells, rather than this AR style scope. So There are plenty of things I dont know.

My other option is to steal the Leupold Mark 4 3.5-10x40 LR/T from my .308, use the 226 turrent, and buy a new, longer distance scope for my now naked Tikka T3 .308. A Zeiss Conquest 4.5-14x50, a Dark Ops Rifle Scopes Countersniper Optics 5X25 42Mm, or something affordable but still powerful, like a Millett 4-16x50 Matte Tactical.

genrally speaking, I dont feel that either rifle reaches out enough. My AR has an Eotech, and 3x is not good enough even for 100 yards. My Tikka T3 with the Luepold I have not dialed in, but still, its only got 3.5-10x40 on there. Passable, but no way Im going to hit 800 yards and up. Bu that scope on an AR would be pretty comfortable.

I know this post is a pain in the ass, but the basic question is, whats the best way to go with 1 .308, and 1 AR-15 if I feel Im not getting goo distances?

The scopes Ive mentioned are ones I can afford, or have a credit for.

What do you guys think?

 

[TimK]

Re: AR-15 scopes. - reaching out with a 1.5-5x20mm

You don't mention what size target you're trying to hit. It must be small if 3x isn't getting the job done at 100 yards. Personally, I like 4X or 6X on AR's, and we hit well with them out to 700+ on full size silhouettes.

Neither do you say if the ability to shoot up close is important to you.

Tell us what size targets and at what minimum and maximum ranges and we can try to advise.

I've shot the MR/T, and it's a really nice piece for the price. I can't say what the differences are between it and the less expensive scope, but I can say I'd be happy to have the MR/T on one of my own rifles.

 

[Mister Ridge]

Re: AR-15 scopes. - reaching out with a 1.5-5x20mm

1. I would like to know how you got your Sig 556 to weigh twice what an AR weighs.

2. Among the other things you didn't tell us is how many rounds you expect to shoot to hit the target. Are we talking first round hits or walking the bullets in?

3.Two differences I can tell you right off the bat about those two scopes is that the Mark 4 has a hold-over reticle and exposed turrets to allow dialing in at long range, unless you plan on custom shopping the VX-3. I believe the M2 turrets are setup in some way to have a BDC built in.

 

[gstaylorg]

Re: AR-15 scopes. - reaching out with a 1.5-5x20mm

Prior to moving back to Kalifornia, I had 4 Sig 556s and 2 556 pistols, so I'm pretty familiar with that platform. With commercial match ammo, the absolute best precision at 100 yd you're likely to get is around 1.5 MOA. 2.0-2.5 MOA was the norm for mine with various flavors of commercial ammo. Under this constraint, I would suggest that putting a higher mag optic (>10-15X upper limit) on your rifle is going to be of very limited use. As mentioned, if you want to hit paper plates at 100 yd, the 556 will do that with ease. However, you don't need a precision optic in order to do that. I had a NF 1-4X24 FC-2 reticle on one of mine, mostly as a CQB optic (I don't care for red dots) and because I knew I'd eventually use that scope on a different rifle.

My suggestion would be to stick with your Eotech and 3X magnifier and accept that the Sig 556 is not a "precision" platform. Otherwise, you will spend a lot of time and $$$ trying to tweak it and improve the precision, but will ultimately end up dissatisfied with the results. Been there, done that. With the current setup you described, you should easily be able to ring steel out to 400-500 yds. But putting a higher mag scope on it will not allow you to shrink the group size or hit targets further out than you already should be able to with the Eotech/3X.

FWIW, even the Sig 556 DMR I had was only marginally capable of sub-MOA groupings at 100 yd, and from 200-400 yd the precision steadily decreased. The only thing a higher mag scope will buy for that rifle is it will allow you see the 5-6" groups you're printing at 200 yds a little more clearly. If you really want a "precision" rifle in an AR platform that will allow you to reach out further, there are certainly ways you could go, but unfortunately the Sig 556 wasn't really designed to be more than minute of man past a few hundred yards.

BTW: A Sig 556 SWAT weights in from the factory at ~7.5 lbs. Once you add iron sights, an optic, and load up the mag, it will be closer to 9 lbs, depending on your choices. So not exactly twice the weight of a typical AR, but definitely heavier due to the gas piston system. Due to it's longer gas piston, the 556 Classic SWAT is also quite front heavy, an issue the Patrol SWAT with its shorter piston was designed to minimize.

 

[LRRPF52]

Re: AR-15 scopes. - reaching out with a 1.5-5x20mm

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A Zeiss Conquest 4.5-14x50, a <span style="color: #CC0000"><span style="font-weight: bold">Dark Ops Rifle Scopes Countersniper Optics 5X25 42Mm</span></span>, or something affordable but still powerful, like a Millett 4-16x50 Matte Tactical. </div></div>

Countersniper Optics is a running joke on every forum and among serious shooting circles.

Pretty much any scope made in China is going to break on you, either when you open the box, or try to zero it. If you really want to buy one, just take out the money you would have spent, pile it in the driveway, pour gas on it, and light it. You can even leave your hand in the flames, just to send yourself a message.

The Leupold LR/T is too much scope for that blaster. A variable 1-4x or the affordable Leupold is the most I would mount on it, but I would personally stick with a mini RDS on an op-rod driven AR. Too much weight already on most of them.

 

[squirrel_slayer]

Re: AR-15 scopes. - reaching out with a 1.5-5x20mm

I have the non illuminated 1-5 leupold Mr/t 1" tube. Its a very nice optic. I've taken it out to 800yds on a 20" plate with my .308 16" gas gun using only the reticle.