- Thread starter jjrgr21
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Re: surplus ammo &arms
Its too bad they've jumped on the gouging bandwagon. I purchased some items from them at a gun show six months or so ago. The prices were actually really good and the people were great.
Its too bad they've jumped on the gouging bandwagon. I purchased some items from them at a gun show six months or so ago. The prices were actually really good and the people were great.
Re: surplus ammo &arms
They want $350 for a BCG.
They want $350 for a BCG.
Re: surplus ammo &arms
they had 3 BCG at the local gunshow, one was on sale for $325 the other two were $400 because of some kind of coating on them.
woohoo.
they had 3 BCG at the local gunshow, one was on sale for $325 the other two were $400 because of some kind of coating on them.
woohoo.
Re: surplus ammo &arms
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: T2CH</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And $1099.00 for 1000 XM193. No thanks... </div></div>
Was $1,199.00 when I checked Wednesday night...<span style="font-style: italic">looks like you found a deal!</span>
I just hope everyone remembers who did what when this is all over...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: T2CH</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And $1099.00 for 1000 XM193. No thanks... </div></div>
Was $1,199.00 when I checked Wednesday night...<span style="font-style: italic">looks like you found a deal!</span>
I just hope everyone remembers who did what when this is all over...
Re: surplus ammo &arms
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: plong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: T2CH</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And $1099.00 for 1000 XM193. No thanks... </div></div>
Was $1,199.00 when I checked Wednesday night...<span style="font-style: italic">looks like you found a deal!</span>
<span style="font-weight: bold">I just hope everyone remembers who did what when this is all over...</span> </div></div>
+1
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: plong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: T2CH</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And $1099.00 for 1000 XM193. No thanks... </div></div>
Was $1,199.00 when I checked Wednesday night...<span style="font-style: italic">looks like you found a deal!</span>
<span style="font-weight: bold">I just hope everyone remembers who did what when this is all over...</span> </div></div>
+1
Re: surplus ammo &arms
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: danoob</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: plong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: T2CH</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And $1099.00 for 1000 XM193. No thanks... </div></div>
Was $1,199.00 when I checked Wednesday night...<span style="font-style: italic">looks like you found a deal!</span>
<span style="font-weight: bold">I just hope everyone remembers who did what when this is all over...</span> </div></div>
+1 </div></div>
+2
Problem is, there are so many people buying and so many who don't think beyond their immediate needs that when things get back to "normal", the gougers will still have plenty of buyers.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: danoob</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: plong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: T2CH</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And $1099.00 for 1000 XM193. No thanks... </div></div>
Was $1,199.00 when I checked Wednesday night...<span style="font-style: italic">looks like you found a deal!</span>
<span style="font-weight: bold">I just hope everyone remembers who did what when this is all over...</span> </div></div>
+1 </div></div>
+2
Problem is, there are so many people buying and so many who don't think beyond their immediate needs that when things get back to "normal", the gougers will still have plenty of buyers.
Re: surplus ammo &arms
Wow, I've bought from them a few times over the years and never had a problem, but now after seeing this they've lost me as a customer. I'm sure someone will gladly step up and take my place though...
Wow, I've bought from them a few times over the years and never had a problem, but now after seeing this they've lost me as a customer. I'm sure someone will gladly step up and take my place though...
Re: surplus ammo &arms
Not necessarily "mad." Perhaps disappointed would be a more accurate term.
I'm all in favor of businesses making a profit. If they didn't, we wouldn't be able to buy anything. If they ask $2600 for a base-level M4 variant, I just shake my head and keep on going. In the future, though, I will try to avoid those businesses that, in my opinion, got a little too carried away.
We saw this 4 years ago and weathered the crisis. I hope we can do it again.
Richard
Not necessarily "mad." Perhaps disappointed would be a more accurate term.
I'm all in favor of businesses making a profit. If they didn't, we wouldn't be able to buy anything. If they ask $2600 for a base-level M4 variant, I just shake my head and keep on going. In the future, though, I will try to avoid those businesses that, in my opinion, got a little too carried away.
We saw this 4 years ago and weathered the crisis. I hope we can do it again.
Richard
Re: surplus ammo &arms
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jjrgr21</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i have no problem with supply and demand ideology, but when the mark up reaches 600%, thats ridiculous. </div></div>
even if people are paying it?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jjrgr21</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i have no problem with supply and demand ideology, but when the mark up reaches 600%, thats ridiculous. </div></div>
even if people are paying it?
Re: surplus ammo &arms
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 512BPG</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jjrgr21</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i have no problem with supply and demand ideology, but when the mark up reaches 600%, thats ridiculous. </div></div>
even if people are paying it? </div></div>
Just because you <span style="font-style: italic">can</span> doesn't mean you <span style="font-style: italic">should</span>!
I own my own business and, in better times, I've had the opportunity do exactly what some of these firearms and ammo peddlers are doing but I've been at it long enough to realize that what comes around goes around. I do my best to follow the golden rule: to treat others as I'd hope to be treated (both my customers and my suppliers). I've seen allot of more opportunistic competitors come and go in the nearly 30 years I've been at it.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 512BPG</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jjrgr21</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i have no problem with supply and demand ideology, but when the mark up reaches 600%, thats ridiculous. </div></div>
even if people are paying it? </div></div>
Just because you <span style="font-style: italic">can</span> doesn't mean you <span style="font-style: italic">should</span>!
I own my own business and, in better times, I've had the opportunity do exactly what some of these firearms and ammo peddlers are doing but I've been at it long enough to realize that what comes around goes around. I do my best to follow the golden rule: to treat others as I'd hope to be treated (both my customers and my suppliers). I've seen allot of more opportunistic competitors come and go in the nearly 30 years I've been at it.
Re: surplus ammo &arms
You guys are ridiculous. The FACT is you only think of yourselves when it comes to business but never look at the other side of the coin. Many of these businesses specialize in AR style rifles and accessories which makes up a majority of their business. If/when an assault weapons ban gets put into place whether on a Federal or State level then those businesses are going to lose their business and main source of revenue. That's why many are "gouging" and selling for as much as they possibly can. If shit goes down they'll need that revenue to restructure their entire operation and try to keep the employee's as long as possible while doing so. But you guys don't think about that. No... you're just pissed that you can't get what you want, when you want it, and at the price you want to dictate. I know a lot of 3 year old's with the same outlook... the only difference is they don't know any fucking better. Some of you with your fucking whining about it are beginning to sound like the same entitled people that you so passionately dislike elsewhere.
You guys are ridiculous. The FACT is you only think of yourselves when it comes to business but never look at the other side of the coin. Many of these businesses specialize in AR style rifles and accessories which makes up a majority of their business. If/when an assault weapons ban gets put into place whether on a Federal or State level then those businesses are going to lose their business and main source of revenue. That's why many are "gouging" and selling for as much as they possibly can. If shit goes down they'll need that revenue to restructure their entire operation and try to keep the employee's as long as possible while doing so. But you guys don't think about that. No... you're just pissed that you can't get what you want, when you want it, and at the price you want to dictate. I know a lot of 3 year old's with the same outlook... the only difference is they don't know any fucking better. Some of you with your fucking whining about it are beginning to sound like the same entitled people that you so passionately dislike elsewhere.
Re: surplus ammo &arms
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jjrgr21</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i have no problem with supply and demand ideology, but when the mark up reaches 600%, thats ridiculous. </div></div>
So Mr. Socialist... Exactly what limit is there to mark-up before it's no longer exceptable?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jjrgr21</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i have no problem with supply and demand ideology, but when the mark up reaches 600%, thats ridiculous. </div></div>
So Mr. Socialist... Exactly what limit is there to mark-up before it's no longer exceptable?
Re: surplus ammo &arms
solution to gougers...stop paying in fiat currency. trade gouge priced items you have too much of for other gouge priced items you need.
solution to gougers...stop paying in fiat currency. trade gouge priced items you have too much of for other gouge priced items you need.
Re: surplus ammo &arms
Here's a good example and frame of reference that people without business sense...
You own a house...
You want to sell it...
Someone tells you it's worth $600K in the current market because of a shortage of available properties in your area that's highly desired and soon the government won't allow anymore building in that area...
You know that you only paid $100K for it 20-30 years ago...
You gonna sell it to the first person who comes along and offers you $100K?
Didn't fucking think so...
Here's a good example and frame of reference that people without business sense...
You own a house...
You want to sell it...
Someone tells you it's worth $600K in the current market because of a shortage of available properties in your area that's highly desired and soon the government won't allow anymore building in that area...
You know that you only paid $100K for it 20-30 years ago...
You gonna sell it to the first person who comes along and offers you $100K?
Didn't fucking think so...
Re: surplus ammo &arms
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here's a good example and frame of reference that people without business sense...
You own a house...
You want to sell it...
Someone tells you it's worth $600K in the current market because of a shortage of available properties in your area that's highly desired and soon the government won't allow anymore building in that area...
You know that you only paid $100K for it 20-30 years ago...
You gonna sell it to the first person who comes along and offers you $100K?
Didn't fucking think so...
</div></div>
wish I could still buy a few stocks at last week's prices too
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here's a good example and frame of reference that people without business sense...
You own a house...
You want to sell it...
Someone tells you it's worth $600K in the current market because of a shortage of available properties in your area that's highly desired and soon the government won't allow anymore building in that area...
You know that you only paid $100K for it 20-30 years ago...
You gonna sell it to the first person who comes along and offers you $100K?
Didn't fucking think so...
</div></div>
wish I could still buy a few stocks at last week's prices too
Re: surplus ammo &arms
I'm not gonna argue with you if you can't tell the difference between long-term appreciation (as in your "you own a house..." example) and opportunistic gouging. There are numerous examples of reputable vendors who have refused to jump on the gouging bandwagon: SKD, BCM, DSG, Rainier...I loved SKD's asshole-proofed PMag sale! If that's what you call "business sense" all I can say is that I hope you and I never do any business.
PL Out...
I'm not gonna argue with you if you can't tell the difference between long-term appreciation (as in your "you own a house..." example) and opportunistic gouging. There are numerous examples of reputable vendors who have refused to jump on the gouging bandwagon: SKD, BCM, DSG, Rainier...I loved SKD's asshole-proofed PMag sale! If that's what you call "business sense" all I can say is that I hope you and I never do any business.
PL Out...
Re: surplus ammo &arms
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: plong</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm not gonna argue with you if you can't tell the difference between long-term appreciation (as in your "you own a house..." example) and opportunistic gouging. There are numerous examples of reputable vendors who have refused to jump on the gouging bandwagon: SKD, BCM, DSG, Rainier...I loved SKD's asshole-proofed PMag sale! If that's what you call "business sense" all I can say is that I hope you and I never do any business.
PL Out... </div></div>
So, because some businesses choose to not do it then no one else should? And somethings only allowed to appreciate if it's long term? What part of Socialism do you not get because you're arguing for it...
Add: There's a difference between "Business Sense" and "Business Ethics" and both of which are open to interpretation. If your idea of both is not adjusting to market demand when there's an imminent threat to your main revenue stream... then you have neither because you're willing to sacrifice your employees livelihood along with yours and your family all to tell people you didn't "gouge". When you no longer have a product to sell to continue your business I'd love to be there when you layoff your employees or tell the bank you can't make the mortgage that it's not your fault you don't have the extra capital to completely change your business model but at least you didn't "gouge"...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: plong</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm not gonna argue with you if you can't tell the difference between long-term appreciation (as in your "you own a house..." example) and opportunistic gouging. There are numerous examples of reputable vendors who have refused to jump on the gouging bandwagon: SKD, BCM, DSG, Rainier...I loved SKD's asshole-proofed PMag sale! If that's what you call "business sense" all I can say is that I hope you and I never do any business.
PL Out... </div></div>
So, because some businesses choose to not do it then no one else should? And somethings only allowed to appreciate if it's long term? What part of Socialism do you not get because you're arguing for it...
Add: There's a difference between "Business Sense" and "Business Ethics" and both of which are open to interpretation. If your idea of both is not adjusting to market demand when there's an imminent threat to your main revenue stream... then you have neither because you're willing to sacrifice your employees livelihood along with yours and your family all to tell people you didn't "gouge". When you no longer have a product to sell to continue your business I'd love to be there when you layoff your employees or tell the bank you can't make the mortgage that it's not your fault you don't have the extra capital to completely change your business model but at least you didn't "gouge"...
Re: surplus ammo &arms
no need for name callin
right now people are willing to pay crazy prices for a product that was 1/10 the price a month ago, if people are paying then fine.
all i'm saying is that people remember that shit, like i'll remember that rainier didn't go the route of CTD. not that it really matters with the big online retailers. but the small gunshops, like the local one close to me putting a $700 price tag on a $90 lower, and then saying "i'll go as low as 500" like he's doing me a favor. i'll remember that in the future, and instead of driving 30 minutes south, i'll drive 45 minutes north to a guy who isn't gouging.
i'm not a socialist, if someone offered me $3k for one of my ar's, you bet your lilly white ass i'd sell in a heartbeat.
no need for name callin
right now people are willing to pay crazy prices for a product that was 1/10 the price a month ago, if people are paying then fine.
all i'm saying is that people remember that shit, like i'll remember that rainier didn't go the route of CTD. not that it really matters with the big online retailers. but the small gunshops, like the local one close to me putting a $700 price tag on a $90 lower, and then saying "i'll go as low as 500" like he's doing me a favor. i'll remember that in the future, and instead of driving 30 minutes south, i'll drive 45 minutes north to a guy who isn't gouging.
i'm not a socialist, if someone offered me $3k for one of my ar's, you bet your lilly white ass i'd sell in a heartbeat.
Re: surplus ammo &arms
Broker:
I think you've highlighted our primary difference: I believe honorable business ethics <span style="font-style: italic">are</span> good business sense; and no, I don't believe sound ethical behavior is "...open to interpretation".
You may want to check yourself when calling someone a Socialist or lecturing on business sense. As a staunch capitalist I've operated and owned highly successful businesses for nearly 30 years (<span style="font-style: italic">you</span>..?). We've had years when our net operating margins were 95th percentile (nationally) or better. We accomplished those results by providing our customers with quality product at reasonable prices while treating our employees and vendors fairly and respectfully. In my opinion that's not only the right way to do business, it's the only way for a business to survive long-term. Oh, and we've never defaulted on an obligation - mortgage, account-payable, employee payroll, or otherwise.
As for your accusations of Socialism... <span style="font-style: italic">really</span>? I have not, nor has anyone else here, said they shouldn't be <span style="font-style: italic">allowed</span> to do what they're doing. The ability to run one's businesses as each business leader sees fit is just one of the many great things about living in this country. That said it’s my sincere opinion that businesses that choose to engage in the kind of opportunistic price-gouging we've been seeing lately from some elements of the firearms industry are the very ones who put the welfare of their employees, vendors, and lenders at risk. I've seen those types of businesses come and go many times during my time in business. It's never pretty for those who've trusted them when they do go.
We're all free to experiment with whatever business model we think best for us and ours. I encourage you to try it your way; that's certainly your right! I'd be willing to learn from your experience if it turns out you have the better way...I'll check back with you in about 30 years .
Broker:
I think you've highlighted our primary difference: I believe honorable business ethics <span style="font-style: italic">are</span> good business sense; and no, I don't believe sound ethical behavior is "...open to interpretation".
You may want to check yourself when calling someone a Socialist or lecturing on business sense. As a staunch capitalist I've operated and owned highly successful businesses for nearly 30 years (<span style="font-style: italic">you</span>..?). We've had years when our net operating margins were 95th percentile (nationally) or better. We accomplished those results by providing our customers with quality product at reasonable prices while treating our employees and vendors fairly and respectfully. In my opinion that's not only the right way to do business, it's the only way for a business to survive long-term. Oh, and we've never defaulted on an obligation - mortgage, account-payable, employee payroll, or otherwise.
As for your accusations of Socialism... <span style="font-style: italic">really</span>? I have not, nor has anyone else here, said they shouldn't be <span style="font-style: italic">allowed</span> to do what they're doing. The ability to run one's businesses as each business leader sees fit is just one of the many great things about living in this country. That said it’s my sincere opinion that businesses that choose to engage in the kind of opportunistic price-gouging we've been seeing lately from some elements of the firearms industry are the very ones who put the welfare of their employees, vendors, and lenders at risk. I've seen those types of businesses come and go many times during my time in business. It's never pretty for those who've trusted them when they do go.
We're all free to experiment with whatever business model we think best for us and ours. I encourage you to try it your way; that's certainly your right! I'd be willing to learn from your experience if it turns out you have the better way...I'll check back with you in about 30 years
Re: surplus ammo &arms
Here is my take on the gouging- personally, I hate it, but why should a guy running a small shop sell his entire inventory at his normal mark-up, just so guys can turn around and sell whatever at the inflated internet prices? If people are crazy enough to pay it, that is their own stuipidity. When everything returns to normal, hopefully prices just go up slightly to cover labor/material costs and that these $2000 M4's and mag prices lose their affect on the market.
Here is my take on the gouging- personally, I hate it, but why should a guy running a small shop sell his entire inventory at his normal mark-up, just so guys can turn around and sell whatever at the inflated internet prices? If people are crazy enough to pay it, that is their own stuipidity. When everything returns to normal, hopefully prices just go up slightly to cover labor/material costs and that these $2000 M4's and mag prices lose their affect on the market.
Re: surplus ammo &arms
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: plong</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Broker:
I think you've highlighted our primary difference: I believe honorable business ethics <span style="font-style: italic">are</span> good business sense; and no, I don't believe sound ethical behavior is "...open to interpretation".
You may want to check yourself when calling someone a Socialist or lecturing on business sense. As a staunch capitalist I've operated and owned highly successful businesses for nearly 30 years (<span style="font-style: italic">you</span>..?). We've had years when our net operating margins were 95th percentile (nationally) or better. We accomplished those results by providing our customers with quality product at reasonable prices while treating our employees and vendors fairly and respectfully. In my opinion that's not only the right way to do business, it's the only way for a business to survive long-term. Oh, and we've never defaulted on an obligation - mortgage, account-payable, employee payroll, or otherwise.
As for your accusations of Socialism... <span style="font-style: italic">really</span>? I have not, nor has anyone else here, said they shouldn't be <span style="font-style: italic">allowed</span> to do what they're doing. The ability to run one's businesses as each business leader sees fit is just one of the many great things about living in this country. That said it’s my sincere opinion that businesses that choose to engage in the kind of opportunistic price-gouging we've been seeing lately from some elements of the firearms industry are the very ones who put the welfare of their employees, vendors, and lenders at risk. I've seen those types of businesses come and go many times during my time in business. It's never pretty for those who've trusted them when they do go.
We're all free to experiment with whatever business model we think best for us and ours. I encourage you to try it your way; that's certainly your right! I'd be willing to learn from your experience if it turns out you have the better way...I'll check back with you in about 30 years . </div></div>
+1 Here!
It's not about their ability to overprice goods, that is there decision. The point most people are trying to make is that pissing off your customers to make a quick profit is going to bite you in the long run. So let them sell products @ 600% mark-up, just don't whine when these small businesses are out of business when the gun ban DOESN'T happen and customers remember who treated them fairly.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: plong</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Broker:
I think you've highlighted our primary difference: I believe honorable business ethics <span style="font-style: italic">are</span> good business sense; and no, I don't believe sound ethical behavior is "...open to interpretation".
You may want to check yourself when calling someone a Socialist or lecturing on business sense. As a staunch capitalist I've operated and owned highly successful businesses for nearly 30 years (<span style="font-style: italic">you</span>..?). We've had years when our net operating margins were 95th percentile (nationally) or better. We accomplished those results by providing our customers with quality product at reasonable prices while treating our employees and vendors fairly and respectfully. In my opinion that's not only the right way to do business, it's the only way for a business to survive long-term. Oh, and we've never defaulted on an obligation - mortgage, account-payable, employee payroll, or otherwise.
As for your accusations of Socialism... <span style="font-style: italic">really</span>? I have not, nor has anyone else here, said they shouldn't be <span style="font-style: italic">allowed</span> to do what they're doing. The ability to run one's businesses as each business leader sees fit is just one of the many great things about living in this country. That said it’s my sincere opinion that businesses that choose to engage in the kind of opportunistic price-gouging we've been seeing lately from some elements of the firearms industry are the very ones who put the welfare of their employees, vendors, and lenders at risk. I've seen those types of businesses come and go many times during my time in business. It's never pretty for those who've trusted them when they do go.
We're all free to experiment with whatever business model we think best for us and ours. I encourage you to try it your way; that's certainly your right! I'd be willing to learn from your experience if it turns out you have the better way...I'll check back with you in about 30 years
+1 Here!
It's not about their ability to overprice goods, that is there decision. The point most people are trying to make is that pissing off your customers to make a quick profit is going to bite you in the long run. So let them sell products @ 600% mark-up, just don't whine when these small businesses are out of business when the gun ban DOESN'T happen and customers remember who treated them fairly.
Re: surplus ammo &arms
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: plong</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Broker:
I think you've highlighted our primary difference: I believe honorable business ethics <span style="font-style: italic">are</span> good business sense; and no, I don't believe sound ethical behavior is "...open to interpretation".
You may want to check yourself when calling someone a Socialist or lecturing on business sense. As a staunch capitalist I've operated and owned highly successful businesses for nearly 30 years (<span style="font-style: italic">you</span>..?). We've had years when our net operating margins were 95th percentile (nationally) or better. We accomplished those results by providing our customers with quality product at reasonable prices while treating our employees and vendors fairly and respectfully. In my opinion that's not only the right way to do business, it's the only way for a business to survive long-term. Oh, and we've never defaulted on an obligation - mortgage, account-payable, employee payroll, or otherwise.
As for your accusations of Socialism... <span style="font-style: italic">really</span>? I have not, nor has anyone else here, said they shouldn't be <span style="font-style: italic">allowed</span> to do what they're doing. The ability to run one's businesses as each business leader sees fit is just one of the many great things about living in this country. That said it’s my sincere opinion that businesses that choose to engage in the kind of opportunistic price-gouging we've been seeing lately from some elements of the firearms industry are the very ones who put the welfare of their employees, vendors, and lenders at risk. I've seen those types of businesses come and go many times during my time in business. It's never pretty for those who've trusted them when they do go.
We're all free to experiment with whatever business model we think best for us and ours. I encourage you to try it your way; that's certainly your right! I'd be willing to learn from your experience if it turns out you have the better way...I'll check back with you in about 30 years . </div></div>
First off... Your opinions of business and regulating prices, mark ups, etc is Socialism. If you don't like the fact I'm calling an apple an apple then that's your issue, not mine. Second, your experience in running businesses does not make you an expert on Capitalism, nor allow you to define it with your own interpretation. And trying to dictate mark ups whether through an "ethics" argument or any other man is in FACT stating that what someone else is doing shouldn't be allowed, whether you frame it as an opinion or not. Last, and this is the most important... Learn to read and actually listen to whats being said. I didn't say that was my business model. I said they were operating on the assumption that should their current business model become obsolete due to legislation that they'd have to completely restructure their model in order to survive or possibly close shop all together. And unless you have the same business model and know of a solution to the pending threats your model and methods are of ZERO consequence or relevance.
Now take your own advice and "check yourself" because your own ethics are piss poor when you try to win an argument with your accolades and trying to question other peoples or their length of.
Add: People who feel the need to tout their moral righteousness while condemning others... they have a word for that... Hypocrite.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: plong</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Broker:
I think you've highlighted our primary difference: I believe honorable business ethics <span style="font-style: italic">are</span> good business sense; and no, I don't believe sound ethical behavior is "...open to interpretation".
You may want to check yourself when calling someone a Socialist or lecturing on business sense. As a staunch capitalist I've operated and owned highly successful businesses for nearly 30 years (<span style="font-style: italic">you</span>..?). We've had years when our net operating margins were 95th percentile (nationally) or better. We accomplished those results by providing our customers with quality product at reasonable prices while treating our employees and vendors fairly and respectfully. In my opinion that's not only the right way to do business, it's the only way for a business to survive long-term. Oh, and we've never defaulted on an obligation - mortgage, account-payable, employee payroll, or otherwise.
As for your accusations of Socialism... <span style="font-style: italic">really</span>? I have not, nor has anyone else here, said they shouldn't be <span style="font-style: italic">allowed</span> to do what they're doing. The ability to run one's businesses as each business leader sees fit is just one of the many great things about living in this country. That said it’s my sincere opinion that businesses that choose to engage in the kind of opportunistic price-gouging we've been seeing lately from some elements of the firearms industry are the very ones who put the welfare of their employees, vendors, and lenders at risk. I've seen those types of businesses come and go many times during my time in business. It's never pretty for those who've trusted them when they do go.
We're all free to experiment with whatever business model we think best for us and ours. I encourage you to try it your way; that's certainly your right! I'd be willing to learn from your experience if it turns out you have the better way...I'll check back with you in about 30 years
First off... Your opinions of business and regulating prices, mark ups, etc is Socialism. If you don't like the fact I'm calling an apple an apple then that's your issue, not mine. Second, your experience in running businesses does not make you an expert on Capitalism, nor allow you to define it with your own interpretation. And trying to dictate mark ups whether through an "ethics" argument or any other man is in FACT stating that what someone else is doing shouldn't be allowed, whether you frame it as an opinion or not. Last, and this is the most important... Learn to read and actually listen to whats being said. I didn't say that was my business model. I said they were operating on the assumption that should their current business model become obsolete due to legislation that they'd have to completely restructure their model in order to survive or possibly close shop all together. And unless you have the same business model and know of a solution to the pending threats your model and methods are of ZERO consequence or relevance.
Now take your own advice and "check yourself" because your own ethics are piss poor when you try to win an argument with your accolades and trying to question other peoples or their length of.
Add: People who feel the need to tout their moral righteousness while condemning others... they have a word for that... Hypocrite.
Re: surplus ammo &arms
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: virus51</div><div class="ubbcode-body">+1 Here!
It's not about their ability to overprice goods, that is there decision. The point most people are trying to make is that pissing off your customers to make a quick profit is going to bite you in the long run. So let them sell products @ 600% mark-up, just don't whine when these small businesses are out of business when the gun ban DOESN'T happen and customers remember who treated them fairly.
</div></div>
The only difference between you and the businesses your condemning is you're making the opposite assumption of the future. It's easy to be on the outside looking in with nothing to lose. If you're so positive nothing is going to happen then why would you care whether they gouge since all you have to do is kick back and weather the storm? FACT is the same people whining about the gouging are the same people doing the panic buying. You can't cry wolf then get mad when the wolves come calling...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: virus51</div><div class="ubbcode-body">+1 Here!
It's not about their ability to overprice goods, that is there decision. The point most people are trying to make is that pissing off your customers to make a quick profit is going to bite you in the long run. So let them sell products @ 600% mark-up, just don't whine when these small businesses are out of business when the gun ban DOESN'T happen and customers remember who treated them fairly.
</div></div>
The only difference between you and the businesses your condemning is you're making the opposite assumption of the future. It's easy to be on the outside looking in with nothing to lose. If you're so positive nothing is going to happen then why would you care whether they gouge since all you have to do is kick back and weather the storm? FACT is the same people whining about the gouging are the same people doing the panic buying. You can't cry wolf then get mad when the wolves come calling...
Re: surplus ammo &arms
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">FACT is the same people whining about the gouging are the same people doing the panic buying. </div></div>
Actually, that is an opinion. And it is an incorrect one at that. As I did buy ammo this past week, but I paid $.76/round for 175gr SMK from Southwest Ammunition instead of $1.20/round of XM-193 Lake City ammo. I will patiently sit back and wait for my order to come in and laugh at the panic buyers getting gouged by opportunistic companies.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">FACT is the same people whining about the gouging are the same people doing the panic buying. </div></div>
Actually, that is an opinion. And it is an incorrect one at that. As I did buy ammo this past week, but I paid $.76/round for 175gr SMK from Southwest Ammunition instead of $1.20/round of XM-193 Lake City ammo. I will patiently sit back and wait for my order to come in and laugh at the panic buyers getting gouged by opportunistic companies.
Re: surplus ammo &arms
Hi Folks,
I think an important factor to the increase in price is also due to a large percentage of "new" gun owners.
They do not have an historical perspective of past prices for ammo or firearms. They don't have clue what past prices were because they were not gun owners or did not have an intrest in guns until obumer said they can't have one.
2cents
Hi Folks,
I think an important factor to the increase in price is also due to a large percentage of "new" gun owners.
They do not have an historical perspective of past prices for ammo or firearms. They don't have clue what past prices were because they were not gun owners or did not have an intrest in guns until obumer said they can't have one.
2cents
Re: surplus ammo &arms
this is getting fucking stupid, why don't you all kiss and make up. and keep you're opinions to your selves. that all this is, an exchange of opinion, back and forth, back and forth. i doubt any of you looked up the definition of socialism.
this is getting fucking stupid, why don't you all kiss and make up. and keep you're opinions to your selves. that all this is, an exchange of opinion, back and forth, back and forth. i doubt any of you looked up the definition of socialism.
Re: surplus ammo &arms
Actually, He never said to regulate the business. He said that he did not believe in doing business that way. Get your facts straight before you call him a Hypocrite and a Socialist!
Actually, He never said to regulate the business. He said that he did not believe in doing business that way. Get your facts straight before you call him a Hypocrite and a Socialist!
Re: surplus ammo &arms
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SniperUncle</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Actually, He never said to regulate the business. He said that he did not believe in doing business that way. Get your facts straight before you call him a Hypocrite and a Socialist! </div></div>
Actually he argued on behalf of jjrgr21 who I referred to as socialist and when you align your arguments in defense of another then in my opinion you're considered in agreement with that person. As for him being a hypocrite that's a matter of my opinion and frankly I don't give a shit if you agree or not. Try actually reading what is being said and not making assumptions like everyone else that thinks every comment is a direct reflection of an alleged "statement" when it's more an opinion of someones actions/ideology. And if that doesn't work... then fuck off.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broker</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jjrgr21</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i have no problem with supply and demand ideology, but when the mark up reaches 600%, thats ridiculous. </div></div>
So Mr. Socialist... Exactly what limit is there to mark-up before it's no longer exceptable? </div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SniperUncle</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Actually, He never said to regulate the business. He said that he did not believe in doing business that way. Get your facts straight before you call him a Hypocrite and a Socialist! </div></div>
Actually he argued on behalf of jjrgr21 who I referred to as socialist and when you align your arguments in defense of another then in my opinion you're considered in agreement with that person. As for him being a hypocrite that's a matter of my opinion and frankly I don't give a shit if you agree or not. Try actually reading what is being said and not making assumptions like everyone else that thinks every comment is a direct reflection of an alleged "statement" when it's more an opinion of someones actions/ideology. And if that doesn't work... then fuck off.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broker</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jjrgr21</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i have no problem with supply and demand ideology, but when the mark up reaches 600%, thats ridiculous. </div></div>
So Mr. Socialist... Exactly what limit is there to mark-up before it's no longer exceptable? </div></div>
Re: surplus ammo &arms
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: virus51</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">FACT is the same people whining about the gouging are the same people doing the panic buying. </div></div>
Actually, that is an opinion. And it is an incorrect one at that. As I did buy ammo this past week, but I paid $.76/round for 175gr SMK from Southwest Ammunition instead of $1.20/round of XM-193 Lake City ammo. I will patiently sit back and wait for my order to come in and laugh at the panic buyers getting gouged by opportunistic companies. </div></div>
Oh so since you're not doing the panic buying it must not be true... I didn't realize you were the entire market.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: virus51</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">FACT is the same people whining about the gouging are the same people doing the panic buying. </div></div>
Actually, that is an opinion. And it is an incorrect one at that. As I did buy ammo this past week, but I paid $.76/round for 175gr SMK from Southwest Ammunition instead of $1.20/round of XM-193 Lake City ammo. I will patiently sit back and wait for my order to come in and laugh at the panic buyers getting gouged by opportunistic companies. </div></div>
Oh so since you're not doing the panic buying it must not be true... I didn't realize you were the entire market.
Re: surplus ammo &arms
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jjrgr21</div><div class="ubbcode-body">this is getting fucking stupid, why don't you all kiss and make up. and keep you're opinions to your selves. that all this is, an exchange of opinion, back and forth, back and forth. i doubt any of you looked up the definition of socialism. </div></div>
Yeah... you're one to talk about keeping opinions to yourself, lol. You guys show up and start bashing a business and their ethics with your opinions and then when a counter opinion is given you come back with we should "keep you're opinions to your selves". Hey pot... this is the kettle calling...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jjrgr21</div><div class="ubbcode-body">this is getting fucking stupid, why don't you all kiss and make up. and keep you're opinions to your selves. that all this is, an exchange of opinion, back and forth, back and forth. i doubt any of you looked up the definition of socialism. </div></div>
Yeah... you're one to talk about keeping opinions to yourself, lol. You guys show up and start bashing a business and their ethics with your opinions and then when a counter opinion is given you come back with we should "keep you're opinions to your selves". Hey pot... this is the kettle calling...
Re: surplus ammo &arms
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 338Sendero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here is my take on the gouging- personally, I hate it, but why should a guy running a small shop sell his entire inventory at his normal mark-up, just so guys can turn around and sell whatever at the inflated internet prices? If people are crazy enough to pay it, that is their own stuipidity. When everything returns to normal, hopefully prices just go up slightly to cover labor/material costs and that these $2000 M4's and mag prices lose their affect on the market.</div></div>
My take too, especially if they can't replace their inventory.
It certainly complicates a stable and more predictable economy.
The thing is that is only temporary and everyone (in business) needs to do whatever it takes to survive.
Those low end gougers are not going to make any significant amount of money anyway and they only delay us who regularly buy and build.
The trick is for those actually in the business to price their inventory so they don't screw up any future customer loyalty .. {cough} like ahem...Cheaper than Dirt.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 338Sendero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here is my take on the gouging- personally, I hate it, but why should a guy running a small shop sell his entire inventory at his normal mark-up, just so guys can turn around and sell whatever at the inflated internet prices? If people are crazy enough to pay it, that is their own stuipidity. When everything returns to normal, hopefully prices just go up slightly to cover labor/material costs and that these $2000 M4's and mag prices lose their affect on the market.</div></div>
My take too, especially if they can't replace their inventory.
It certainly complicates a stable and more predictable economy.
The thing is that is only temporary and everyone (in business) needs to do whatever it takes to survive.
Those low end gougers are not going to make any significant amount of money anyway and they only delay us who regularly buy and build.
The trick is for those actually in the business to price their inventory so they don't screw up any future customer loyalty .. {cough} like ahem...Cheaper than Dirt.
Re: surplus ammo &arms
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broker</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: virus51</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">FACT is the same people whining about the gouging are the same people doing the panic buying. </div></div>
Actually, that is an opinion. And it is an incorrect one at that. As I did buy ammo this past week, but I paid $.76/round for 175gr SMK from Southwest Ammunition instead of $1.20/round of XM-193 Lake City ammo. I will patiently sit back and wait for my order to come in and laugh at the panic buyers getting gouged by opportunistic companies. </div></div>
Oh so since you're not doing the panic buying it must not be true... I didn't realize you were the entire market. </div></div>
You made a statement that you said was FACT. For it to be FACT then ALL people that complained about gouging would have to be panic buying. By stating I don't believe in UNREASONABLE price increases (like 600%) than by your standards I am whining. But since I did not panic buy, that proves your statement FALSE. Which was my point.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broker</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: virus51</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">FACT is the same people whining about the gouging are the same people doing the panic buying. </div></div>
Actually, that is an opinion. And it is an incorrect one at that. As I did buy ammo this past week, but I paid $.76/round for 175gr SMK from Southwest Ammunition instead of $1.20/round of XM-193 Lake City ammo. I will patiently sit back and wait for my order to come in and laugh at the panic buyers getting gouged by opportunistic companies. </div></div>
Oh so since you're not doing the panic buying it must not be true... I didn't realize you were the entire market. </div></div>
You made a statement that you said was FACT. For it to be FACT then ALL people that complained about gouging would have to be panic buying. By stating I don't believe in UNREASONABLE price increases (like 600%) than by your standards I am whining. But since I did not panic buy, that proves your statement FALSE. Which was my point.
Re: surplus ammo &arms
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: virus51</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broker</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: virus51</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">FACT is the same people whining about the gouging are the same people doing the panic buying. </div></div>
Actually, that is an opinion. And it is an incorrect one at that. As I did buy ammo this past week, but I paid $.76/round for 175gr SMK from Southwest Ammunition instead of $1.20/round of XM-193 Lake City ammo. I will patiently sit back and wait for my order to come in and laugh at the panic buyers getting gouged by opportunistic companies. </div></div>
Oh so since you're not doing the panic buying it must not be true... I didn't realize you were the entire market. </div></div>
You made a statement that you said was FACT. For it to be FACT then ALL people that complained about gouging would have to be panic buying. By stating I don't believe in UNREASONABLE price increases (like 600%) than by your standards I am whining. But since I did not panic buy, that proves your statement FALSE. Which was my point. </div></div>
I never state the word "ALL". You implied it... Try again, but this time use words I actually said. And I said your complaining about mark-ups being "ridiculous" was Socialist since in your mind there's obviously a limit and I asked you what the limit was which you never answered directly.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: virus51</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broker</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: virus51</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">FACT is the same people whining about the gouging are the same people doing the panic buying. </div></div>
Actually, that is an opinion. And it is an incorrect one at that. As I did buy ammo this past week, but I paid $.76/round for 175gr SMK from Southwest Ammunition instead of $1.20/round of XM-193 Lake City ammo. I will patiently sit back and wait for my order to come in and laugh at the panic buyers getting gouged by opportunistic companies. </div></div>
Oh so since you're not doing the panic buying it must not be true... I didn't realize you were the entire market. </div></div>
You made a statement that you said was FACT. For it to be FACT then ALL people that complained about gouging would have to be panic buying. By stating I don't believe in UNREASONABLE price increases (like 600%) than by your standards I am whining. But since I did not panic buy, that proves your statement FALSE. Which was my point. </div></div>
I never state the word "ALL". You implied it... Try again, but this time use words I actually said. And I said your complaining about mark-ups being "ridiculous" was Socialist since in your mind there's obviously a limit and I asked you what the limit was which you never answered directly.
Re: surplus ammo &arms
there's a big difference in not agreeing with anothers opinion, and calling that person a commie. 32 years old, 13 years in the army, but there's a first for everything.
broker,
what i was inferring was that it's a disappointment that a small local shop would go to those lengths. it doesn't mean that i believe in socialism, but the exploitation of an incidental outcome, to me, is a little twisted.
but thats my opinion, everyone is entitled to their opinion. but making bullshit accusations, about someone you don't know is just fucking stupid.
however, you are correct on a couple points. if someone is charging outrageous prices for a product, because that is what they think their worth, then fine. people don't have to buy them.
there's a big difference in not agreeing with anothers opinion, and calling that person a commie. 32 years old, 13 years in the army, but there's a first for everything.
broker,
what i was inferring was that it's a disappointment that a small local shop would go to those lengths. it doesn't mean that i believe in socialism, but the exploitation of an incidental outcome, to me, is a little twisted.
but thats my opinion, everyone is entitled to their opinion. but making bullshit accusations, about someone you don't know is just fucking stupid.
however, you are correct on a couple points. if someone is charging outrageous prices for a product, because that is what they think their worth, then fine. people don't have to buy them.
Re: surplus ammo &arms
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jjrgr21</div><div class="ubbcode-body">there's a big difference in not agreeing with anothers opinion, and calling that person a commie. 32 years old, 13 years in the army, but there's a first for everything.
broker,
what i was inferring was that it's a disappointment that a small local shop would go to those lengths. it doesn't mean that i believe in socialism, but the exploitation of an incidental outcome, to me, is a little twisted.
but thats my opinion, everyone is entitled to their opinion. but making bullshit accusations, about someone you don't know is just fucking stupid.
however, you are correct on a couple points. if someone is charging outrageous prices for a product, because that is what they think their worth, then fine. people don't have to buy them. <span style="color: #FF0000">We're in 100% agreement finally on something...</span>
</div></div>
Please show me where I called anyone a Communist or that people weren't entitled to opinions or stating those opinions? I can show where you on the other hand have said such.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jjrgr21</div><div class="ubbcode-body">and keep you're opinions to your selves.</div></div>
Now go look up the definition of hypocrite then explain to me how you're not being one...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jjrgr21</div><div class="ubbcode-body">there's a big difference in not agreeing with anothers opinion, and calling that person a commie. 32 years old, 13 years in the army, but there's a first for everything.
broker,
what i was inferring was that it's a disappointment that a small local shop would go to those lengths. it doesn't mean that i believe in socialism, but the exploitation of an incidental outcome, to me, is a little twisted.
but thats my opinion, everyone is entitled to their opinion. but making bullshit accusations, about someone you don't know is just fucking stupid.
however, you are correct on a couple points. if someone is charging outrageous prices for a product, because that is what they think their worth, then fine. people don't have to buy them. <span style="color: #FF0000">We're in 100% agreement finally on something...</span>
</div></div>
Please show me where I called anyone a Communist or that people weren't entitled to opinions or stating those opinions? I can show where you on the other hand have said such.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jjrgr21</div><div class="ubbcode-body">and keep you're opinions to your selves.</div></div>
Now go look up the definition of hypocrite then explain to me how you're not being one...
Re: surplus ammo &arms
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I never state the word "ALL". You implied it... Try again, but this time use words I actually said. And I said your complaining about mark-ups being "ridiculous" was Socialist since in your mind there's obviously a limit and I asked you what the limit was which you never answered directly.
</div></div>
You said FACT...for it to be FACT it has to be 100% TRUE. And since I proved it was not 100% true, it is NOT A FACT. Secondly, there is absolutey NOTHING Socialist about complaining about what some one perceives to be an unreasonable mark-up. I NEVER stated that they did not have the right nor inferred that it should be stopped. I actually said it was there decision. But it is also mine and everyone else's decison to not buy from them and to remember those companies that we perceive to have tried to take advantage of customers in order to make a quick gain.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I never state the word "ALL". You implied it... Try again, but this time use words I actually said. And I said your complaining about mark-ups being "ridiculous" was Socialist since in your mind there's obviously a limit and I asked you what the limit was which you never answered directly.
</div></div>
You said FACT...for it to be FACT it has to be 100% TRUE. And since I proved it was not 100% true, it is NOT A FACT. Secondly, there is absolutey NOTHING Socialist about complaining about what some one perceives to be an unreasonable mark-up. I NEVER stated that they did not have the right nor inferred that it should be stopped. I actually said it was there decision. But it is also mine and everyone else's decison to not buy from them and to remember those companies that we perceive to have tried to take advantage of customers in order to make a quick gain.
Re: surplus ammo &arms
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: virus51</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I never state the word "ALL". You implied it... Try again, but this time use words I actually said. And I said your complaining about mark-ups being "ridiculous" was Socialist since in your mind there's obviously a limit and I asked you what the limit was which you never answered directly.
</div></div>
You said FACT...for it to be FACT it has to be 100% TRUE. And since I proved it was not 100% true, it is NOT A FACT. Secondly, there is absolutey NOTHING Socialist about complaining about what some one perceives to be an unreasonable mark-up. I NEVER stated that they did not have the right nor inferred that it should be stopped. I actually said it was there decision. But it is also mine and everyone else's decison to not buy from them and to remember those companies that we perceive to have tried to take advantage of customers in order to make a quick gain. </div></div>
I said that the panic buyers were complaining about the gouging and vice versa. I didn't say ALL or EVERY, so you've disproved nothing other than your ability to read. I also NEVER said that you stated they didn't have the right but you did complain about the mark-up as you are now and still failing to answer the question of what is a reasonable mark-up. Now when you're ready to fucking answer with something I did ACTUALLY say then by all means, but for the moment your spinning your wheels trying to maintain a losing argument...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: virus51</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I never state the word "ALL". You implied it... Try again, but this time use words I actually said. And I said your complaining about mark-ups being "ridiculous" was Socialist since in your mind there's obviously a limit and I asked you what the limit was which you never answered directly.
</div></div>
You said FACT...for it to be FACT it has to be 100% TRUE. And since I proved it was not 100% true, it is NOT A FACT. Secondly, there is absolutey NOTHING Socialist about complaining about what some one perceives to be an unreasonable mark-up. I NEVER stated that they did not have the right nor inferred that it should be stopped. I actually said it was there decision. But it is also mine and everyone else's decison to not buy from them and to remember those companies that we perceive to have tried to take advantage of customers in order to make a quick gain. </div></div>
I said that the panic buyers were complaining about the gouging and vice versa. I didn't say ALL or EVERY, so you've disproved nothing other than your ability to read. I also NEVER said that you stated they didn't have the right but you did complain about the mark-up as you are now and still failing to answer the question of what is a reasonable mark-up. Now when you're ready to fucking answer with something I did ACTUALLY say then by all means, but for the moment your spinning your wheels trying to maintain a losing argument...
Re: surplus ammo &arms
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The only difference between you and the businesses your condemning is you're making the opposite assumption of the future. It's easy to be on the outside looking in with nothing to lose. If you're so positive nothing is going to happen then why would you care whether they gouge since all you have to do is kick back and weather the storm? <span style="color: #FF0000">FACT is the same people whining about the gouging are the same people doing the panic buying.</span> You can't cry wolf then get mad when the wolves come calling... </div></div>
I believe this is your post, so they are YOUR FUCKING WORDS! Highlighted in red, YOU'RE STATEMENT ABOUT IT BEING A FACT.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I never state the word "ALL". You implied it... Try again, but this time use words I actually said. <span style="color: #CC0000">And I said your complaining about mark-ups being "ridiculous" was Socialist</span> since in your mind there's obviously a limit and I asked you what the limit was which you never answered directly.</div></div>
By calling my thinking Socialist you are absolutely inferring I do not believe they should be able to raise their prices.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Actually, that is an opinion. And it is an incorrect one at that. As I did buy ammo this past week, but <span style="color: #FF0000">I paid $.76/round for 175gr SMK from Southwest Ammunition instead of $1.20/round of XM-193 Lake City ammo</span>. I will patiently sit back and wait for my order to come in and laugh at the panic buyers getting gouged by opportunistic companies.</div></div>
And here is me explaining that I bought match grade ammuntion for 2/3 the price of surplus XM-193 ammo. Most intelligent people would see that if I am able to buy match grade ammo at $.76/rd I should damn surely be able to buy the XM-193 ammo for that price. In fact, Natchez Shooters list their same ammo at $.40/rd. So throw in the factor of supply and demand, doubling the price to $.80/rd seems fair to me. But AGAIN, it's their ammo and they can sell it for whatever they wish. I choose not to buy it.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The only difference between you and the businesses your condemning is you're making the opposite assumption of the future. It's easy to be on the outside looking in with nothing to lose. If you're so positive nothing is going to happen then why would you care whether they gouge since all you have to do is kick back and weather the storm? <span style="color: #FF0000">FACT is the same people whining about the gouging are the same people doing the panic buying.</span> You can't cry wolf then get mad when the wolves come calling... </div></div>
I believe this is your post, so they are YOUR FUCKING WORDS! Highlighted in red, YOU'RE STATEMENT ABOUT IT BEING A FACT.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I never state the word "ALL". You implied it... Try again, but this time use words I actually said. <span style="color: #CC0000">And I said your complaining about mark-ups being "ridiculous" was Socialist</span> since in your mind there's obviously a limit and I asked you what the limit was which you never answered directly.</div></div>
By calling my thinking Socialist you are absolutely inferring I do not believe they should be able to raise their prices.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Actually, that is an opinion. And it is an incorrect one at that. As I did buy ammo this past week, but <span style="color: #FF0000">I paid $.76/round for 175gr SMK from Southwest Ammunition instead of $1.20/round of XM-193 Lake City ammo</span>. I will patiently sit back and wait for my order to come in and laugh at the panic buyers getting gouged by opportunistic companies.</div></div>
And here is me explaining that I bought match grade ammuntion for 2/3 the price of surplus XM-193 ammo. Most intelligent people would see that if I am able to buy match grade ammo at $.76/rd I should damn surely be able to buy the XM-193 ammo for that price. In fact, Natchez Shooters list their same ammo at $.40/rd. So throw in the factor of supply and demand, doubling the price to $.80/rd seems fair to me. But AGAIN, it's their ammo and they can sell it for whatever they wish. I choose not to buy it.
Re: surplus ammo &arms
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: virus51</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The only difference between you and the businesses your condemning is you're making the opposite assumption of the future. It's easy to be on the outside looking in with nothing to lose. If you're so positive nothing is going to happen then why would you care whether they gouge since all you have to do is kick back and weather the storm? <span style="color: #FF0000">FACT is the same people whining about the gouging are the same people doing the panic buying.</span> You can't cry wolf then get mad when the wolves come calling... </div></div>
I believe this is your post, so they are YOUR FUCKING WORDS! Highlighted in red, YOU'RE STATEMENT ABOUT IT BEING A FACT.
<span style="color: #FF6600">So, can you prove that people panic buying aren't also whining about gouging? Because all your doing is saying that since you're whining about gouging but not panic buying then it must not be true which is not evidence to the contrary. As a matter of FACT if I can prove even one person is complaining about gouging and a panic buyer than I have proven my statement as FACT. Just because you choose to infer "ALL" into a statement does not disprove my statement but simply infers your imagination and ability to add to something that wasn't there to begin with. Try again... </span>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I never state the word "ALL". You implied it... Try again, but this time use words I actually said. <span style="color: #CC0000">And I said your complaining about mark-ups being "ridiculous" was Socialist</span> <span style="color: #FF6600">since in your mind there's obviously a limit and I asked you what the limit was which you never answered directly.</span></div></div>
By calling my thinking Socialist you are absolutely inferring I do not believe they should be able to raise their prices.
<span style="color: #FF6600">Or you can try answering the actual question rather than trying to word around it and avoid the answer. Try again...</span>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Actually, that is an opinion. And it is an incorrect one at that. As I did buy ammo this past week, but <span style="color: #FF0000">I paid $.76/round for 175gr SMK from Southwest Ammunition instead of $1.20/round of XM-193 Lake City ammo</span>. I will patiently sit back and wait for my order to come in and laugh at the panic buyers getting gouged by opportunistic companies.</div></div>
And here is me explaining that I bought match grade ammuntion for 2/3 the price of surplus XM-193 ammo. Most intelligent people would see that if I am able to buy match grade ammo at $.76/rd I should damn surely be able to buy the XM-193 ammo for that price. In fact, Natchez Shooters list their same ammo at $.40/rd. So throw in the factor of supply and demand, doubling the price to $.80/rd seems fair to me. But AGAIN, it's their ammo and they can sell it for whatever they wish. I choose not to buy it.
<span style="color: #FF6600">And exactly what's the point here? Nothing you've said above was ever questioned. Again, you're trying to add something that was never there to win a losing battle. Try Again...
Better yet, maybe you should quit trying at this point since you can't seem to stay on track nor actually read what's been said without seeing imaginary words.</span>
</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: virus51</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The only difference between you and the businesses your condemning is you're making the opposite assumption of the future. It's easy to be on the outside looking in with nothing to lose. If you're so positive nothing is going to happen then why would you care whether they gouge since all you have to do is kick back and weather the storm? <span style="color: #FF0000">FACT is the same people whining about the gouging are the same people doing the panic buying.</span> You can't cry wolf then get mad when the wolves come calling... </div></div>
I believe this is your post, so they are YOUR FUCKING WORDS! Highlighted in red, YOU'RE STATEMENT ABOUT IT BEING A FACT.
<span style="color: #FF6600">So, can you prove that people panic buying aren't also whining about gouging? Because all your doing is saying that since you're whining about gouging but not panic buying then it must not be true which is not evidence to the contrary. As a matter of FACT if I can prove even one person is complaining about gouging and a panic buyer than I have proven my statement as FACT. Just because you choose to infer "ALL" into a statement does not disprove my statement but simply infers your imagination and ability to add to something that wasn't there to begin with. Try again... </span>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I never state the word "ALL". You implied it... Try again, but this time use words I actually said. <span style="color: #CC0000">And I said your complaining about mark-ups being "ridiculous" was Socialist</span> <span style="color: #FF6600">since in your mind there's obviously a limit and I asked you what the limit was which you never answered directly.</span></div></div>
By calling my thinking Socialist you are absolutely inferring I do not believe they should be able to raise their prices.
<span style="color: #FF6600">Or you can try answering the actual question rather than trying to word around it and avoid the answer. Try again...</span>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Actually, that is an opinion. And it is an incorrect one at that. As I did buy ammo this past week, but <span style="color: #FF0000">I paid $.76/round for 175gr SMK from Southwest Ammunition instead of $1.20/round of XM-193 Lake City ammo</span>. I will patiently sit back and wait for my order to come in and laugh at the panic buyers getting gouged by opportunistic companies.</div></div>
And here is me explaining that I bought match grade ammuntion for 2/3 the price of surplus XM-193 ammo. Most intelligent people would see that if I am able to buy match grade ammo at $.76/rd I should damn surely be able to buy the XM-193 ammo for that price. In fact, Natchez Shooters list their same ammo at $.40/rd. So throw in the factor of supply and demand, doubling the price to $.80/rd seems fair to me. But AGAIN, it's their ammo and they can sell it for whatever they wish. I choose not to buy it.
<span style="color: #FF6600">And exactly what's the point here? Nothing you've said above was ever questioned. Again, you're trying to add something that was never there to win a losing battle. Try Again...
Better yet, maybe you should quit trying at this point since you can't seem to stay on track nor actually read what's been said without seeing imaginary words.</span>
</div></div>
Re: surplus ammo &arms
plong since you put it out there I'd like to know exactly what your business is if you don't mind sharing? If it is was I think it is I have just the example I'd like to point out and see where your business "ethics" stand then.
plong since you put it out there I'd like to know exactly what your business is if you don't mind sharing? If it is was I think it is I have just the example I'd like to point out and see where your business "ethics" stand then.
Re: surplus ammo &arms
For the last time, for something to be a FACT it MUST be all encompassing true. No if, ands, or buts. Since not all people "whining" are panic buying AND since not all people panic buying are whining... Your statement that it is a FACT is FALSE.
And maybe it is YOU who needs to put down his grumpy stick and read more carefully. As it is YOU who continues to reshape his words to fit his argument. I haven't strayed from my original comments. I have carefully explained every point and you don't agree with it so you contine to be a pissed off little man and rant and rave about all us Socialist invaders.
Not arguing with you anymore, I have explained my points and not wasting anymore time on your merry-go-round.
For the last time, for something to be a FACT it MUST be all encompassing true. No if, ands, or buts. Since not all people "whining" are panic buying AND since not all people panic buying are whining... Your statement that it is a FACT is FALSE.
And maybe it is YOU who needs to put down his grumpy stick and read more carefully. As it is YOU who continues to reshape his words to fit his argument. I haven't strayed from my original comments. I have carefully explained every point and you don't agree with it so you contine to be a pissed off little man and rant and rave about all us Socialist invaders.
Not arguing with you anymore, I have explained my points and not wasting anymore time on your merry-go-round.
Re: surplus ammo &arms
my statement "keep your opinions to yourselves", was directed at you calling me a socialist. honestly i'm offended by that accusation. and if someone said that to my face, i'd judy chop them in the throat.
just keep the arguments civil
my statement "keep your opinions to yourselves", was directed at you calling me a socialist. honestly i'm offended by that accusation. and if someone said that to my face, i'd judy chop them in the throat.
just keep the arguments civil
