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Varget w/ 178's and H1000 w/208's. Ladders and Q's

Wildwillalaska

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Jul 7, 2010
492
4
50
Kenai, Alaska
So went to the range today to play around with a ladder test on a GAP Rock 300WM and decided to do a confirmatory one on a GAP 308 that previous load work had already pointed me in a direction.

On the 300WM, 24" using RWS brass, 210 SMK's, Fed match mag primers and H1000.
On the 308, 20" using Lapua brass, 178 Amax, Fed match primers and Varget.

Previous ladder test on the 308 pointed towards 43.5gr of Varget, and had shot up to 45.8gr without pressure signs in that original string. (Weird pressure issue in a minute). Yesterday, it was nice out and fired a few groups playing with different seating depths at 100 yards and sighting in the 300WM and firing a short string for testing pressure with the RWS brass since seem to have less capacity. Here are two of the groups from that session.

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So today, shot two ladders at 500yrds and think I screwed the 308 one up about as much as possible. As the bullets climbed up the page I got nervous they were going to climb off paper, so moved over to give more vertical room on the target I was using, but they did not climb, just printed to almost same vertical as the first string, just appx 1 MOA to the left as that's the shift I made--until the final two which showed a significant jump in velocity. It started raining right as I got to the range, so did not set up my chrony.

The 43.5 load seems to fall within somewhat of a node. Every round today showed faint marking from ejector button. No sticky bolt or other pressure sign, but my brass from last weekends ladder and the groups yesterday did not show any pressure signs at all. So I'm stumped as to why the show of reassure today, same brass, powder, primer, etc--all same lot. Temps even close--each day in the 20's/30's. Cleaned the barrel tonight real well hoping that's my issue--but otherwise stumped.

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The 300WM Ladder seemed to show a node in that mid 74 gr area, which 74.5gr decent the day before.

image_zpsc6ef6c76.jpg

 
Re: Varget w/ 178's and H1000 w/208's. Ladders and Q's

When I finished up a bit disappointed with the results, but had a few rounds left so shot a group from each gun at 500 yards, 43.5 gr Varget for the 308 and 74.5 gr H1000 for the 300WM. Was honestly in a hurry to get back to the house before folks showed for Super Bowl, and while I started off with a speller showing on the 308, I fudged the final two shots a bit. Same with the 300WM. Not horrid, but good start.

LOVE this pic------
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But explains why folks want to see 5-shot groups

image_zpsa4fbb806.jpg



And for the 300WM

image_zpsd8546566.jpg




SO---anyone have suggestions where I go from here? Thinking of doing some groups with 43.0 Varget in the 308 and playing with the seating depth more. On the 300WM, thinking of still playing around 74.5 grains and may try a few groups between 75.3 and 75.6 range. All rounds fired today were .005 off the lands. Any input appreciated.

Thanks guys.
 
Re: Varget w/ 178's and H1000 w/208's. Ladders and Q's


Did you see pressure sighns at 76.5. Load data on Hodgdons says you can go to 78gr. My Node with 208 Amax was at 77.5gr. I went to 78.5 with no presssure. I was happy at 2900fps so I stopped.
You are on the right track. If are happy at 74.5 its a very modest load. But just see what you velocity is first.
 
Re: Varget w/ 178's and H1000 w/208's. Ladders and Q's

In regards to your .308, were the results of this test conclusive to your previous ladder? I ask because 43.5 seems to be one of the furthest out of the node. 43.7, 43.9, 44.1 are all within 1/2" vertically... Seems like that's your node from what I'm seeing.

Tony P.
 
Re: Varget w/ 178's and H1000 w/208's. Ladders and Q's

I did not see any pressure signs at 76.5 grains, but the RWS brass seems to have less volume than others. Theres a lot of crunching going on with the 76.5 grain load and compared to what others have shared using the RWS brass with H1000, I wasn't sure if I was going to make it that far. After I chrono the 74.5 load, I may try another test starting there and going higher to see where I find pressure and if there is a higher node. Using the JBM calculator and just working back on the MOA setting on my scope and the trajectory, the 74.5gr load appears to be in the low-mid 2800's. I was shooting for something around 2850ish.
 
Re: Varget w/ 178's and H1000 w/208's. Ladders and Q's

Heytonyman, on my 308, the original ladder I did at 300 yards showed a node between 43.2 and 43.8, I did .3 grain intervals and 43.2, 43.5, and 43.8 were the closest of the string, but honestly, they were all so close together it was like reading tea leaves. Even the slightest error on my part provided skewed results.

I think I may just do another one and see. Give me a chance to confirm that the pressure I saw last time out was a fouled barrel or other anomaly that I has gone away. I may also shoot groups with 43.0, 43.5 and 43.9 and see what results show compared to the ladder.

Anyone have any input on the pressure show at these lower loads? Any idea other than fouling? I had fired 46 rounds the day before, but those were on a clean barrel, so would seem unlikely. --but its the only difference I can tell from the rounds the day before--unless some error along the way during my loading. But same batches of everything and same scales.

Anyway, thanks guys.
 
Re: Varget w/ 178's and H1000 w/208's. Ladders and Q's

Like yourself, I've tried a ladder at 300ish before only to find most of the rounds stacking on top of one another. Trial and error has showed me that 500 yards seems to be the minimum for getting reliable information from a .308 ladder test. Some will argue otherwise but I think you're seeing the proof. With the 300 I think pushing out to 700 yards will give you even better information.

Pressures will always go up when shooting in the rain or even high-humidity conditions, but if you're in the node you won't see much change down range. How severe was the pressure you were seeing? Just some ejector marks or were you getting nipples on the primers? How far off the lands are you?
 
Re: Varget w/ 178's and H1000 w/208's. Ladders and Q's

I was .005 off the lands, plus or minus .001, for whatever reason, some of the rounds would show slightly longer, maybe one in 6 or so.

No severe pressure, just slight impressions from the ejector button, some slight crater in the primers. Honestly, the primers always have a little nipple it seems when I use the Federal Match, not sure if its the size of the firing pin hole or softer primer.

Slight pressure signs, even on some of the lower charges on the ladder, but regardless how slight, did not have any signs when I did the ladder a week previous or on the rounds of 43.5 I shot for groups. That is what has me stumped and thinking fouled barrel (which really did not have that many rounds through it). Anyway, still scratching me head.