Rifle Scopes Vortex HD vs NXS -- Vortex wins but need more help

[MichaelCox]

Hello everyone,
I had another thread on getting started and got some good advice. So I took it went and did some more research, I even read "MIL and MOA Range Equations Explained" I probably only retained 2% of it but what can you do.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Quick summary:</span> I'm new to LR shooting have no idea what I am doing and am looking for help on making the best scope purchase for me. I'm also taking a two day LR shooting course in March.

I did buy a new Tikka T3 Tactical .308 I would like to have the option to shoot out as far as a 1000+ yards when I'm ready.

I thought I wanted Mill dots as I was subjected to mills in the Corps but after reading I'm thinking MOA's are a better way to go because if I understand it correctly MOA is a bit better at fine tuning adjustments (If I understood what I was reading).

So here are my newest questions which will undoubtedly be followed up by many more.

<span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">FFP or SFP:</span></span>
I think I want FFP; I like the idea of being able to use the reticle at whatever magnification I'm at. However I do wear glasses and have Astigmatism, is that an issue if you want FFP?

<span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">Scopes:</span></span>
I believe I have narrowed my search down to two scopes.
NF NXS 5.5-22x50 or x56 ($2K)
Vortex Viper PST 6-24x50 ($1K)

The NF is about $1k more and I like the Zero Stop of this unit. The PST is $1k less and also has a Zero Stop but in my opinion it's not as good as the NF. I could live with it though if it was worth it to do so.

Ultimately the NF looks like a better scope but since I have no idea what I'm doing. Should I or is it worth spending the extra $1K or would I be just paying for a name?

<span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">Reticles:</span></span>
I really need help here since I have no experience with these I have no idea what I'll like and what I wont.
The NF has the MOAR and the Velocity 1000.
The PST has the EBR-1 MOA (Enhanced Battle Reticle)

Again I really appreciate any and all help and please forgive me if I have some info backwards or what not.

Michael

 

[fdkay]

Re: Getting Closer, Scope Choice (Help spend my money)

Don't be concerned with how "fine" a reticle subtends.
The adjustments are a bit finer, but for a tactical rifle, it is no big deal.

If you were to be shooting F Class, then you would definitely want finer adjustments.

If you insist on MOA reticle and adjustments (absolutely NOTHING wrong with that), then I would lean to the Nightforce. Yes, it is that much better.

There is nothing wrong with choosing the PST, MANY folks are thrilled with theirs. But if you have the money, you might as well get what you really want.

For 2000 bucks, I'd seriously look at the Vortex Razor.

If your open to mil/mil that opens up a whole slew of possibilities, including the Bushnell Elite Tactical and HDMR/LRS, SS 5-20 and IOR.
IOR also has a couple of MOA scopes available.

 

[MichaelCox]

Re: Getting Closer, Scope Choice (Help spend my money)

I'm not fixed on MOA or Mil I just want what's best for me. I did look at the other Vortex as well as the Bushnell they were both on my radar and could still be. As I said I just want to figure something out and go with it.

It looks as though after a while it turns into a Chevy vs Ford deal.

 

[fdkay]

Re: Getting Closer, Scope Choice (Help spend my money)

When comparing the PST to the Nightforce, it is more of a chevy/BMW kind of thing

 

[MichaelCox]

Re: Getting Closer, Scope Choice (Help spend my money)

...LOL, okay well I guess I was just referring more to the name brands than the actual scopes.

Is it easier for beginners to learn MOA or Mils?

 

[calling4life]

Re: Getting Closer, Scope Choice (Help spend my money)

I'm putting a rig together now, I'm going with a Bushnell xrs 4.5-30x50 with the h59 reticle.

You should know if you want ffp or sfp, comparing a $2000 sfp scope to a $1000 ffp is "off."

 

[Triple D]

Re: Getting Closer, Scope Choice (Help spend my money)

Most people will state that mils are easier to learn than moa. Since you're new to this, mils would be a good starting point. The math is just easier for most people to compute on the fly.

Since you're looking at ranging, and wanting FFP, mil or moa will make little difference. You're obviously not shooting benchrest so the slightly larger adjustments won't make a significant difference.

Note: only the 3-15 F1 nightforce scopes are FFP in the NXS lineup. There is not a FFP 5-22 version as of yet.

If you're relatively new to this, the PST will do all that you need and then some. The glass isn't as good as a NF, but it is certaintly usable for your application. Heck, some ppl start out using sub 500$ scopes and do quite well.

Edited- Forgot about the new lineup

 

[MichaelCox]

Re: Getting Closer, Scope Choice (Help spend my money)

"You should know if you want ffp or sfp, comparing a $2000 sfp scope to a $1000 ffp is "off." "

Sorry I thought I made it clear that I know we are not compairing apples to apples. I was looking for input from people with more knowledge than me.

I also wouldn't be asking about the FFP vs SFP if I knew which way to go. As I pointed out I do wear glasses and maybe one is better than the other.

 

[MichaelCox]

Re: Getting Closer, Scope Choice (Help spend my money)

Hey Triple,
I just saw the FFP thing I did see it but it's on the BEAST.

I agree that the NF is more scope than I need I was just thinking I could grow into it. The only thing is the PST Zero Stop isn't as well thought out as the NXS. Not sure if that should be a major worry for me at this point.

Biggest problem is I'm my own worst enemy I hate to not get things right and if it cost a bit more than so be it .

I don't want to spend extra money but as I said if it is the right thing to do I will.

 

[peaceatwar]

Re: Getting Closer, Scope Choice (Help spend my money)

Michael -

I have gone through 3 NF's in the last year. From experience I can tell you they are all awesome. I downsized from a SFP 5.5-22x56 to a 3.5-15x50 FFP and I don't regret it in the slightest. At the same time I switched from MOA to MIL. It is a breeze I love thinking of everything in 1/10 instead of 1/4. As for SFP vs FFP; FFP wins it hands down for me. Whether its figuring out target distance of a given size or target size of a given distance FFP makes it a BREEZE. I also like the size of the reticle when I back it off. A lot of competitions require standing shots. With a 12-17lb rifle you don't want 15x or even 22x magnification. The FFP at about 8x is perfect for me for taking standing shots.

With that said if you plan on taking your gun to F-Class to sit on a bench and shoot 1000 yards. Get a 8-32 Benchrest NF and don't look back. You will want the finer reticle and the higher power magnification. It really depends a lot on your application. Ask more questions, get more answers. If you haven't had the chance to get behind a NF. I vote that first.

 

[Quickdraw40]

Re: Getting Closer, Scope Choice (Help spend my money)

If you are shooting under 1K, check out the Steiner 4-16. It's a steal for around $2,200 MAP. FF, MIL/MIL, Gen2 Mildot, bombproof.

 

[MichaelCox]

Re: Getting Closer, Scope Choice (Help spend my money)

Thanks for the info. Tomorrow I'm going to call the factories and talk to the tech guys. I'll keep yall posted.

 

[Triple D]

Re: Getting Closer, Scope Choice (Help spend my money)

The zero stop issue can be minimized. What some have found, including myself, is that you often can have tenths of mils under your zero when first adding the shims. To offset this, you can adjust your scope up a few tenths of a mil (.1 under how much under travel you have) and add additional shims, then return your elevation down the same amount that you raised it. When you reset your turret cap you should be very close to your zero, with minimal under travel. The only big downside is if you're in a comp and you crank multiple elevation changes from the zero you could potentially be dialing .1-.2 mils under what you should. But this too can be accounted for by simply adding a .1 mil to your dope.

Twice the cost isn't a bit more to me. If funds aren't limited, I'd go NF all the way. That being said, I doubt the glass quality between the NF vs PST will cause a miss at the ranges you wish to shoot. If you're hard on equipment, the NF has a more rugged feel.

Glasses shouldn't be an issue with either focal options. As long as the parallax is adjusted you should be good to go.

 

[Doyputasos]

Re: Getting Closer, Scope Choice (Help spend my money)

Looking forward to getting my PST this week! Also looking forward to seeing what you find out.

 

[MichaelCox]

Re: Getting Closer, Scope Choice (Help spend my money)

Well I was lucky enough to see all the scopes I was looking at. I saw the NF NXS, Vortex PST and the Razor HD.

I have to say that the Razor for me was far superior in clarity. The PST is nice but when compared side by side the differences are vast.

I kind of went thinking I would get the NF NXS but after comparing the NXS to the Razor again the Razor was superior in my mind (eyes). Not to mention it comes in FFP which I have decided I want.

On a side note the other thing that I noticed is Vortex has (<span style="font-style: italic">claims to have</span>) a life-time guarantee whereas the NF has a limited life-time. I have no basis or prof that Vortex's guarantee is any better other than it makes me feel better.

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline">Which Reticle?</span></span>
I believe I will get the Vortex Razor HD. The only issue now is figuring out which reticle in Mils to get.

<span style="font-weight: bold">They have the ERB-2B and the ERB-3.

Should I get the 10mil or 5mils?</span> Please explain your answer so I can better understand why.

I think I like the ERB-3 better but wonder if the ERB-2B is the better choice since it has the hold overs and what not. (I call it the Christmas tree).

As always I appreciate all the help I can get.

 

[MichaelCox]

Re: Getting Closer, Scope Choice (Help spend my money)

Hello again can anyone help answer these questions?

<span style="font-weight: bold">Which Reticle?</span>
I believe I will get the Vortex Razor HD. The only issue now is figuring out which reticle in Mils to get.

They have the ERB-2B and the ERB-3.

Should I get the 10mil or 5mils? Please explain your answer so I can better understand why.

I think I like the ERB-3 better but wonder if the ERB-2B is the better choice since it has the hold overs and what not. (I call it the Christmas tree).

As always I appreciate all the help I can get.

 

[MB4810]

Re: Getting Closer, Scope Choice (Help spend my money)

1) EBR-2B vs EBR-3
My question to you is if you had a chance to compare the two
reticles at the highest magnification?
Do you find the EBR-2B too busy? because to me it has some
advantages.
Think about, the wind direction/intensity change so often
it will be a lot easier and faster to use the hold overs to
compensate rather than play with the turret for adjustment.
This has to be your personal decision according to how
the reticle looks to YOU.I just gave you an answer why I
would choose EBR-2B over the EBR-3.

2)10mils vs 5mils
Again it is a personal preference. 10mils per revolution,
the clicks are finer compared to 5mils and somehow harder
for the fine adjustments 0.01mil.Play with both of them and
choose according to your needs.
Basically with 10mils you turn the turret less in order to
achieve the desired elevation value but you have a harder
time (sort of speak) for fine tuning.

 

[MichaelCox]

Re: Getting Closer, Scope Choice (Help spend my money)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <span style="font-weight: bold">My question to you is if you had a chance to compare the two reticles at the highest magnification?</span></div></div>
Yes and no, Yes I saw both of them however it was in a building.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold">Do you find the EBR-2B too busy?</span></div></div>
It wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. I thought it would be way too busy. I'm a bit OCD and very anal about things so I do like the cleaner look of the EBR-3 but I can learn to deal with the EBR-2B if it's truly a better way to go. I can/could see where it would be better than the EBR-3.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold">Basically with 10mils you turn the turret less in order to achieve the desired elevation value but you have a harder time (sort of speak) for fine tuning.</span></div></div>
This one confuses me. I would have thought the 5mil/rev would be the harder to fine tune.

I would think that the 10mil/rev would be faster to get to where you are going but harder to adjust quickly because of how close the clicks are together.

The 5mil/rev seems faster in a sense because you can click a bit more aggressive since there is more meat between clicks. But slower at the same time since you have to travel further with the clicks.

The only good thing about either one is I haven't learned any bad habbits or formed any opinion one way or the other, this is why I'm asking yall, which is the better way to go.

Man I hope some of that made sense to you! Sorry if it doesn't but in my mind I understand it just fine...LOL

 

[calinb]

Re: Getting Closer, Scope Choice (Help spend my money)

I just picked-up an EBR-2B 10mil Razor today (RZR-52006). I completely agree. The reticle and mils per turn are completely personal preference items. I tried everything at SHOT. I know many skilled and knowledgeable folks hate the H37 but I would've bought the S&B with it, if it wasn't 2x the price of the Razor or more! The EBR-2B seems like a good cost compromise to me and the optics aren't that far off from the S&B either (though hard to tell in a convention center).

 

[turbo54]

Re: Getting Closer, Scope Choice (Help spend my money)

In regard to 5 vs. 10 mrad turrets:

I much prefer 10 AS LONG AS the "clicks" are distinct enough to feel well, AND not so "clicky" that it is difficult to stop at the one you want to stop at.

It is best practice to spin your turret back down to zero as soon as you are done shooting, so that next time you get behind your rifle to take a shot, you're starting from zero. If you have turrets with less than 10mrad/revolution, it is CRUCIAL you do not forget to do this, or you're going to find yourself a revolution off from time to time.

I forget to do this all the time. The 15mrad/revolution turrets on my Premier make it damn hard to find myself on the wrong revolution, because it is extremely rare for me to ever leave the first revolution.

 

[MichaelCox]

Re: Getting Closer, Scope Choice (Help spend my money)

Good info thanks, turbo.

 

[Jedi]

Re: Getting Closer, Scope Choice (Help spend my money)

i have the 5 mil click, prefer the wider spacing
PM sent

 

[MichaelCox]

Re: Getting Closer, Scope Choice (Help spend my money)

Thanks everyone.

Jedi I returned your PM.