Gentlemen new to the game, about to buy a new scope for dta srs covert and have much more understanding of moa/moa. Problem is most training provi ded is in mils. Question, should I buy what I find more understandable or suck it up and learn mils.
- Thread starter BLACKCELL
- Start date
Re: moa or mil
Both will work, but if I were you, I'd go with mil/mil. The math is actually easier in the long run in my experience. Whatever you do, be sure you keep your turrets and reticle either moa/moa or mil/mil - don't mix 'em.
Both will work, but if I were you, I'd go with mil/mil. The math is actually easier in the long run in my experience. Whatever you do, be sure you keep your turrets and reticle either moa/moa or mil/mil - don't mix 'em.
Re: moa or mil
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mkollman74</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Both will work, but if I were you, I'd go with mil/mil. The math is actually easier in the long run in my experience. Whatever you do, be sure you keep your turrets and reticle either moa/moa or mil/mil - don't mix 'em. </div></div>
This
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mkollman74</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Both will work, but if I were you, I'd go with mil/mil. The math is actually easier in the long run in my experience. Whatever you do, be sure you keep your turrets and reticle either moa/moa or mil/mil - don't mix 'em. </div></div>
This
Re: moa or mil
+1 for mil/mil very easy to understand
+1 for mil/mil very easy to understand
Re: moa or mil
I have had both but prefer MOA. If you shoot with a partner you both have to be on the same page!
I have had both but prefer MOA. If you shoot with a partner you both have to be on the same page!
Re: moa or mil
Both work, but I prefer MOA/MOA to keep everything I own consistent. I speak both languages, however, and can quickly convert mil to moa and visa versa when conversing with mil folks.
Both work, but I prefer MOA/MOA to keep everything I own consistent. I speak both languages, however, and can quickly convert mil to moa and visa versa when conversing with mil folks.
Re: moa or mil
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DennisHoward</div><div class="ubbcode-body">+1 for mil/mil very easy to understand </div></div>
This. Mil/Mil is easier to adjust for hold overs, ranging, etc.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DennisHoward</div><div class="ubbcode-body">+1 for mil/mil very easy to understand </div></div>
This. Mil/Mil is easier to adjust for hold overs, ranging, etc.
Re: moa or mil
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BLACKCELL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Please give some mil math tips and if possible some favorite mil reticles. Include samr for favorite Moa rets. SB, NF, Kahles, and Hens. Thank in advance from the nube. </div></div>
I learned a lot from these 2 videos...good stuff!
AvsFan
Understanding MOA -
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Understanding MIL -
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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BLACKCELL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Please give some mil math tips and if possible some favorite mil reticles. Include samr for favorite Moa rets. SB, NF, Kahles, and Hens. Thank in advance from the nube. </div></div>
I learned a lot from these 2 videos...good stuff!
AvsFan
Understanding MOA -
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Understanding MIL -
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Re: moa or mil
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5AGsHSIsVo MIL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VA2PZBD5Tjg MOA
watch these videos, they are very good!
http://www.ultimatesniper.com/Docs/46.PDF
Good read on math for mil
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5AGsHSIsVo MIL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VA2PZBD5Tjg MOA
watch these videos, they are very good!
http://www.ultimatesniper.com/Docs/46.PDF
Good read on math for mil
Re: moa or mil
Mil/mil for me. Probably stick with it from now on. Seems almost self explanatory and to me fun to work with when I can see impact, 1 1/2 mil right? 15 clicks to the right.. Right? .1mil adj? Yeah thats right.. I need to hit the range I'm loosin it.
Mil/mil for me. Probably stick with it from now on. Seems almost self explanatory and to me fun to work with when I can see impact, 1 1/2 mil right? 15 clicks to the right.. Right? .1mil adj? Yeah thats right.. I need to hit the range I'm loosin it.
Re: moa or mil
I shoot MOA but now wish that I had started on MIL. All my buddies shoot MIL and I should've gone that route. There are some scopes that I'd like to have, but they are MIL only and I don't really want to mix up all my glass. I probably have 15k in glass that's all MOA and just don't have the heart and patients to sell 'em all and start over.
It seems that both MOA and MIL are good....but if I were you, I'd choose MIL just because of the availability and popularity.
I shoot MOA but now wish that I had started on MIL. All my buddies shoot MIL and I should've gone that route. There are some scopes that I'd like to have, but they are MIL only and I don't really want to mix up all my glass. I probably have 15k in glass that's all MOA and just don't have the heart and patients to sell 'em all and start over.
It seems that both MOA and MIL are good....but if I were you, I'd choose MIL just because of the availability and popularity.
Re: moa or mil
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BLACKCELL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Please give some mil math tips <span style="color: #FF0000">and if possible some favorite mil reticles</span>. Include samr for favorite Moa rets. SB, NF, Kahles, and Hens. Thank in advance from the nube. </div></div>
Horus reticles is what I have switched to over last 5 years. H-37 or H-59 and the Tremor2 are all favs.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BLACKCELL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Please give some mil math tips <span style="color: #FF0000">and if possible some favorite mil reticles</span>. Include samr for favorite Moa rets. SB, NF, Kahles, and Hens. Thank in advance from the nube. </div></div>
Horus reticles is what I have switched to over last 5 years. H-37 or H-59 and the Tremor2 are all favs.
Re: moa or mil
Pick the best tool for the job, static shooting positions from known distances MOA is the best tool for the job, this is why MOA rule F-Class Benchrest, for fast action shooting at varying distances under little time Mils are the best tool for the job, the secret to either system is not to convert them to inches, a MOA is a MOA and a Mil is a Mil.
Pick the best tool for the job, static shooting positions from known distances MOA is the best tool for the job, this is why MOA rule F-Class Benchrest, for fast action shooting at varying distances under little time Mils are the best tool for the job, the secret to either system is not to convert them to inches, a MOA is a MOA and a Mil is a Mil.
Re: moa or mil
+1 to mil
I used both, but I personally like mil better, and walked away from my moa. Yet that's my vote
+1 to mil
I used both, but I personally like mil better, and walked away from my moa. Yet that's my vote
Re: moa or mil
+1 for Mil
I've used them both but unless your shooting KD on bench or Fclass stick with Mil/Mil. As for ranging your targets its super easy and if your first shot doesn't hit its easy to adjust for your second.
+1 for Mil
I've used them both but unless your shooting KD on bench or Fclass stick with Mil/Mil. As for ranging your targets its super easy and if your first shot doesn't hit its easy to adjust for your second.
Re: moa or mil
Thanks Gentlemen, after watching both vids i still think moa is less difficult to retain, however, I think i will bite the bullet and seek training and self educate for mil/mil... should i buy the horus reticle to start? Not paying 4gs but once. Please help with perm reticle even if quite advanced.
Thanks Gentlemen, after watching both vids i still think moa is less difficult to retain, however, I think i will bite the bullet and seek training and self educate for mil/mil... should i buy the horus reticle to start? Not paying 4gs but once. Please help with perm reticle even if quite advanced.
Re: moa or mil
I will always be an moa guy.
I will always be an moa guy.
Re: moa or mil
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BLACKCELL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">should i buy the horus reticle to start? Not paying 4gs but once. Please help with perm reticle even if quite advanced. </div></div>If you want to spend and extra $400+ for just the reticle then consider getting a Horus. People without much experience using a reticle seem to like them, and the reticles do have their uses for training purposes.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BLACKCELL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">should i buy the horus reticle to start? Not paying 4gs but once. Please help with perm reticle even if quite advanced. </div></div>If you want to spend and extra $400+ for just the reticle then consider getting a Horus. People without much experience using a reticle seem to like them, and the reticles do have their uses for training purposes.
Re: moa or mil
Go MIL/MIL, get a Mildot Master and don't look back.
There isn't much difference. It's just a different measuring unit.
I like an uncomplicated reticle myself. Nightforce MLR.
--Fargo007
Go MIL/MIL, get a Mildot Master and don't look back.
There isn't much difference. It's just a different measuring unit.
I like an uncomplicated reticle myself. Nightforce MLR.
--Fargo007
Re: moa or mil
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fargo007</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
It's just a different measuring unit.
</div></div>
Exactly. If your DOPE says "up 0.3 MILS" and your scope is in MILS, you click it up 0.3 MILS. If your DOPE says "up 1 MOA" and your scope is in MOA, then you click it up one MOA. The only "math" involved is if your DOPE is in one format and your scope is in the other.
Sgt Lumpy - n0eq
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fargo007</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
It's just a different measuring unit.
</div></div>
Exactly. If your DOPE says "up 0.3 MILS" and your scope is in MILS, you click it up 0.3 MILS. If your DOPE says "up 1 MOA" and your scope is in MOA, then you click it up one MOA. The only "math" involved is if your DOPE is in one format and your scope is in the other.
Sgt Lumpy - n0eq
Re: moa or mil
i like the NF MLR makes it simple and uncluttered. the SB mill is goo also but i kind of miss the .5 mill in the center for wind holds. but with SB it's so clear can gage it easy. just remember first focal. had to help a guy with second focal plane couple weeks ago and i don't know how they do it.
i like the NF MLR makes it simple and uncluttered. the SB mill is goo also but i kind of miss the .5 mill in the center for wind holds. but with SB it's so clear can gage it easy. just remember first focal. had to help a guy with second focal plane couple weeks ago and i don't know how they do it.
Re: moa or mil
Mil/Mil or MOA/MOA; unless you are ranging targets you shouldn't need to learn anything.
Ranging is the fun part though!
www.mildot.com
www.shooterready.com
Mil/Mil or MOA/MOA; unless you are ranging targets you shouldn't need to learn anything.
Ranging is the fun part though!
www.mildot.com
www.shooterready.com
Re: moa or mil
Thanks for all your great insight. I am enjoying learning both. Still not convinced either way. Seems like ranging is quiker and more fun via mil/mil. But Moa/moa
More user friendly. Im sure both become second nature over time. Side note, limited on high end european scopes with Moa/moa. This is a factor.
Thanks for all your great insight. I am enjoying learning both. Still not convinced either way. Seems like ranging is quiker and more fun via mil/mil. But Moa/moa
More user friendly. Im sure both become second nature over time. Side note, limited on high end european scopes with Moa/moa. This is a factor.
Re: moa or mil
If you shoot with people a decent amount of he time then find out what they use so you can call adjustments easier. Otherwise it don't matter, just make sure the turrets and reticle match.
If you shoot with people a decent amount of he time then find out what they use so you can call adjustments easier. Otherwise it don't matter, just make sure the turrets and reticle match.
Re: moa or mil
Mil/ Mil
First Focal Plane
Really like my SS 5-20X mil quad reticle.
A mil is a yard at a thousand yards, it's half a yard at 500 yards, it's a tenth of a yard at one hundred yards. That is just as easy as it gets. Sure an MOA is 10.47" at 1000, and so on, but Mils are easier for me to use on the range.
Also, I Can't believe no one has mentioned that Mils are in tenths vs 1/4 for MOA. I read a tape measures, rulers, calipers and micrometers every day, so I'm not afraid of fractions in the least. But I like the fact that Mils are in tenths.
Mil/ Mil
First Focal Plane
Really like my SS 5-20X mil quad reticle.
A mil is a yard at a thousand yards, it's half a yard at 500 yards, it's a tenth of a yard at one hundred yards. That is just as easy as it gets. Sure an MOA is 10.47" at 1000, and so on, but Mils are easier for me to use on the range.
Also, I Can't believe no one has mentioned that Mils are in tenths vs 1/4 for MOA. I read a tape measures, rulers, calipers and micrometers every day, so I'm not afraid of fractions in the least. But I like the fact that Mils are in tenths.
Re: moa or mil
As has been mentioned whatever unit of measurement you settle on the real advantage is found in matching the turrets and reticule
As has been mentioned whatever unit of measurement you settle on the real advantage is found in matching the turrets and reticule
Re: moa or mil
I prefer Mils for tactical work, this is from a military sniper perspective, this is what I am trained on. For me the Mil is just so much easier, I Mil targets and it just makes everything so simple, my spotter adjustments are all in mils and we use Horus scopes so it all works together. This comes really easy on quick math as well, if I know a target size for example a E type is 39.5 inches tall so I can do the quick math for a mil relation formala
Size (inches) x 25.4 / mils measured = distance in Meters
or
Size (inches x 27.77 / mils measured = distnace in yards
But, in the end it is what you are comfortable and like using, but it is hard to argue that mils arent faster, look at the scopes being used in the USASOC sniper comp, and the international...
Hope this helped...
J.
I prefer Mils for tactical work, this is from a military sniper perspective, this is what I am trained on. For me the Mil is just so much easier, I Mil targets and it just makes everything so simple, my spotter adjustments are all in mils and we use Horus scopes so it all works together. This comes really easy on quick math as well, if I know a target size for example a E type is 39.5 inches tall so I can do the quick math for a mil relation formala
Size (inches) x 25.4 / mils measured = distance in Meters
or
Size (inches x 27.77 / mils measured = distnace in yards
But, in the end it is what you are comfortable and like using, but it is hard to argue that mils arent faster, look at the scopes being used in the USASOC sniper comp, and the international...
Hope this helped...
J.
Re: moa or mil
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BLACKCELL</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> But Moa/moa
More user friendly.</div></div>
Yes, please tell us how it's more user friendly.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BLACKCELL</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> But Moa/moa
More user friendly.</div></div>
Yes, please tell us how it's more user friendly.
Re: moa or mil
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sgt:Lumpy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fargo007</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
It's just a different measuring unit.
</div></div>
Exactly. If <span style="font-weight: bold">your DOPE</span> says "up 0.3 MILS" and your scope is in MILS, you click it up 0.3 MILS. If <span style="font-weight: bold">your DOPE</span> says "up 1 MOA" and your scope is in MOA, then you click it up one MOA. The only "math" involved is if <span style="font-weight: bold">your DOPE</span> is in one format and your scope is in the other.
Sgt Lumpy - n0eq</div></div>
^^^^^^
This -~- write it down when you shoot.
Once you start using mil or moa (get the adjustments of the turrets the same) it's a more a matter of knowing where your rifle hits at the different ranges. With either a moa or mil reticle you can hold off and fire quickly.
My favorite scope reticle is the U.S. Optics ST-10 with an MOA scale type 1. That gives me 60 moa of hold alone. I can hold or dial out to 1k with a .223. Or, any other rifle I have it on.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sgt:Lumpy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fargo007</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
It's just a different measuring unit.
</div></div>
Exactly. If <span style="font-weight: bold">your DOPE</span> says "up 0.3 MILS" and your scope is in MILS, you click it up 0.3 MILS. If <span style="font-weight: bold">your DOPE</span> says "up 1 MOA" and your scope is in MOA, then you click it up one MOA. The only "math" involved is if <span style="font-weight: bold">your DOPE</span> is in one format and your scope is in the other.
Sgt Lumpy - n0eq</div></div>
^^^^^^
This -~- write it down when you shoot.
Once you start using mil or moa (get the adjustments of the turrets the same) it's a more a matter of knowing where your rifle hits at the different ranges. With either a moa or mil reticle you can hold off and fire quickly.
My favorite scope reticle is the U.S. Optics ST-10 with an MOA scale type 1. That gives me 60 moa of hold alone. I can hold or dial out to 1k with a .223. Or, any other rifle I have it on.
Re: moa or mil
Simply stated, I have spent mor time reading, shooting, and instruction with moa. Easier for me to understand height in inches and distance in yards. All scoped weapons growing up in 1/4 minutes... Sounds like I need to learn both and experiance more before final commitment.
Simply stated, I have spent mor time reading, shooting, and instruction with moa. Easier for me to understand height in inches and distance in yards. All scoped weapons growing up in 1/4 minutes... Sounds like I need to learn both and experiance more before final commitment.
Re: moa or mil
From current readings...
According to former Marine sniper Caylen
Wojcik of Central Cascade Precision Training,
“It is safe to say that the era of MOA scopes (in a
tactical application) is over and the new era of
mil scopes is here to stay.” Modern Marine
snipers work with the mil method every day.
They don’t think in inches, they think in mils. If
you learn the mil system and work with it
frequently, it has advantages; it works perfectly
with a mil-dot reticle and it takes fewer clicks
than the MOA method to make corrections.
The MOA system might be more user friendly
for the average shooter because an MOA is
comparable to an inch, at least at 100 yards.
Where it requires practice and math is when
you’re trying to make a correction at say, 523 or
some other range that does not end in two zeros.
Then you’ll need to know what each 1⁄4-MOA
click equals at that range. You do this by
multiplying .26 (1⁄4 MOA) by the distance to the
target in yards and dividing by 100. In the case
of 523 yards, one, 1⁄4-MOA click would equal
1.35 inches.
From current readings...
According to former Marine sniper Caylen
Wojcik of Central Cascade Precision Training,
“It is safe to say that the era of MOA scopes (in a
tactical application) is over and the new era of
mil scopes is here to stay.” Modern Marine
snipers work with the mil method every day.
They don’t think in inches, they think in mils. If
you learn the mil system and work with it
frequently, it has advantages; it works perfectly
with a mil-dot reticle and it takes fewer clicks
than the MOA method to make corrections.
The MOA system might be more user friendly
for the average shooter because an MOA is
comparable to an inch, at least at 100 yards.
Where it requires practice and math is when
you’re trying to make a correction at say, 523 or
some other range that does not end in two zeros.
Then you’ll need to know what each 1⁄4-MOA
click equals at that range. You do this by
multiplying .26 (1⁄4 MOA) by the distance to the
target in yards and dividing by 100. In the case
of 523 yards, one, 1⁄4-MOA click would equal
1.35 inches.
