What is wrong with my setup and my mindset......

[TexaSaiga]

Hello fellas. Another longtime lurker. I am sure I will say think and do things that are an abhorrence to the Snipers Hide "in" crowd. I apologize in advance.. Thats why I am here. To learn.

Here is te rifle of topic:

Savage FCP-K
XLR Industries Evolution series rifle chassis
20 MOA 1 pc. base
Burris XTR 6 screw rings
Harris HBRMS
CTK Mono-pod
10 rd accuracy international mags
Explore Optics 4-16x50 IR mil-dot scope

Ammo:
Federal 168 GMM
Black hills 168 Match

Shooter(me)

Not highly experienced,
Skinny
shade on the ugly side
Quick to learn
Been shooting and building rifles my whole life, but no formal training and much to learn

I built the above rifle about a year ago and of course hind-sight is 20-20. Knowing what I know now, I would have used gg&g steel rings, and a steel one pc. base. I also would have most likely gone with another optic, but that is mainly because of pier pressure. I think the current setup and outshoot me.

I ave sighted the rifle in, but not a whole lot more then that. With ammo scalping these days, its an expensive hobby. Before I go and invest a bunch of expensive ammo into a setup I might change in the future, what do you all see as short comings on this setup? Also what can I do to be a better shooter? I dont want to blow through 500 rounds and then find out my theory was incorrect. With regards to the scope, I looked up extensive reviews on it before purchasing it, and of course every person who had never used one bashed it, BUT every single review by someone who had actually used an Explore Optics scope was sold on them. Very solid reviews. Initial impressions are good, but am I really a fool for having it on this setup? I know there is no replacement for experience, but I want to get the most out of the experience that I can. I appreciate any thoughts......

 

[scissorhands]

Re: What is wrong with my setup and my mindset......

How does it shoot?

 

[TexaSaiga]

Re: What is wrong with my setup and my mindset......

Well, I have only had an opportunity to shoot it once using the Black hills ammo. I only shot 40 rounds, in a pasture off the roof of a rocking pickup truck with a 101* fever. Should have been in bed but was too excited to try out the rifle chassis. I grouped about 1.5 MOA, but I attribute this 100% to operator error.

 

[JB02]

Re: What is wrong with my setup and my mindset......

shoot when you're feeling better and let us know how you do

 

[TexaSaiga]

Re: What is wrong with my setup and my mindset......

I plan to.

 

[_Shay_]

Re: What is wrong with my setup and my mindset......

Only thing I would do is upgrade optics. Everything else looks good to go.

 

[seanh]

Re: What is wrong with my setup and my mindset......

The scope isn't the greatest but it's not crap either. I have one of these and can say that I've been pleasantly surprised with the results.

If you don't have reloading supplies already, get that first. If you've got the reloading equipment, buy components...no substitute for rang time.

Buy a scope if you want but there is no magic that will make you a better shot. I'd pick a goal of consistency before you sink money into a scope...call it a reward. Just make sure if you do this, you make it a challenge. At 1.5MOA, going to 1moa isn't much but regularly keeping .75moa...worth more than a pat on the back.

 

[Niles Coyote]

Re: What is wrong with my setup and my mindset......

Careful shooting off your truck, brakes can be bad for things in close proximity. Before you let people turn you off on your glass choice, run it through a box test.

 

[TexaSaiga]

Re: What is wrong with my setup and my mindset......

Shay, the glass seems good, but then again I have not used a lot of quality high powered scopes. I have several leupolds nikons and burris scopes, but they are all under 14x and are no open turret or paralax adjustable. Just simple scopes. You think my rings and base are fine? I have heard of a lot of folks using steel rings and bases and am not sure if that would be a worthy upgrade or not... I do have a question: When I look at an object through the scope and then go from 4x to 16x, the image darkens. I am wondering if this is just a cheap scope thing or if all scopes darken as you zoom.

Seanh, what caliber and scope do you have your Explore setup on? How would you rate it compared to better glass? Shortcomings? I cant wait to get into re-loading but I dont have the room for it at this time. I am in the "brass collecting" stage. Thankfully I ordered 1500 rounds of federal gold before the sandy hook mess.

Niles, Yeah, I have a mueller scope I have run through some tough box tests and the return-ability is awesome for the dollar you spend. I always wonder when to draw the line between spending too much on glass vs. getting what I actually need.

On another note, I am not very familiar with this forum layout and for the life of my I cannot figure out how to turn on email notificstions or multi-quote option when replying..... :-(

 

[Nuttshooter]

Re: What is wrong with my setup and my mindset......

Tex,

when you get a chance you should see what power your scope reticule is correct at. Take a known target and MIL it until it is the correct MIL reading at a certain power. This helped me out alot with a Millet scope I had. The correct power for my MIL's to be right was in between 10X and 11X. This is pretty normal in lower end optics. Most say there scopes are correct at 10X. just best to verify.

Nutt

 

[darkarcher]

Re: What is wrong with my setup and my mindset......

"Also what can I do to be a better shooter? I dont want to blow through 500 rounds and then find out my theory was incorrect."


500 rounds is nothing, you will never be a better shooter unless you are ready to get serious and practice. Those rounds that show you what does not work is just learning to be a better shooter.

 

[2/1_Kiwi]

Re: What is wrong with my setup and my mindset......

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Darkarcher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"Also what can I do to be a better shooter? I dont want to blow through 500 rounds and then find out my theory was incorrect." 500 rounds is nothing, you will never be a better shooter unless you are ready to get serious and practice. Those rounds that show you what does not work is just learning to be a better shooter. </div></div>

Not quite sure i agree with this last statement. 500 rounds is a lot, especially in the current market. Practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect. Dry firing, understanding your rifles capabilities, understanding environmental factors, external ballistics and squeezing every bit of field data you can out of a smaller quantity of ammunition is better than just blatting away until you get more comfortable. Train smarter.

Got a ballistic cheap programme? Tested your optics? (good suggestions already given, testing which mag your reticle is correct at & box test). Got some good targetry? Heaps available free online.

 

[darkarcher]

Re: What is wrong with my setup and my mindset......

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 2/1_Kiwi</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Darkarcher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"Also what can I do to be a better shooter? I dont want to blow through 500 rounds and then find out my theory was incorrect." 500 rounds is nothing, you will never be a better shooter unless you are ready to get serious and practice. Those rounds that show you what does not work is just learning to be a better shooter. </div></div>

Not quite sure i agree with this last statement. 500 rounds is a lot, especially in the current market. Practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect. Dry firing, understanding your rifles capabilities, understanding environmental factors, external ballistics and squeezing every bit of field data you can out of a smaller quantity of ammunition is better than just blatting away until you get more comfortable. Train smarter.

Got a ballistic cheap programme? Tested your optics? (good suggestions already given, testing which mag your reticle is correct at & box test). Got some good targetry? Heaps available free online. </div></div>

Good advice there. I should have been more specific. I don't mean blow ammo to blow ammo. Document every round. I still don't think 500 rounds is much. That's just a solid week of training. I learned so much more making range cards the old way, but I have to say ballistic software is kick ass way to get started, then just verify. Most I have seen need real world tweaking in the end and I end up with hand written cards, but I have not played with all the software that is out there.

 

[HOGTOOTH5R]

Re: What is wrong with my setup and my mindset......

I purchased a Explore Scope once at a gunshow then took it home and mounted it right away and off to the range.

It looked good while I was holding it in my hand at the show but once it was mounted the eye relieve and box was horrible and I could not get it to setup right no matter how I adjusted it.

Yes I know it could be a mounting error but I losing the rings and adjusted moving forward and back and just couldn't get it right. At the end I just returned it and never looked at them again.

But I do have to say though their customer service are Very Good. I took it back to them and told them I had Mounted it and Shot with it and they Still Took it back and gave me a Full Refund without any issues. I have to give credit where credit is due and I appreciated that very much. Maybe it just wasn't the right scope for me, but as OP stated others had high reviews for it.

Now for a similar price range I'd take a Very Hard look at the Falcon Menace Mil/Mil Scopes especially with the FFP ML16 and B20 Rets. I've got one of the None IR ML16 Mil/Mil FFP scopes with 3.5-25 x 50mm on my Tikka T3 .223 Rifle and it is Awesome Scope and Very Clear and Forgiving even at the Highest Power.

For a little more you might also want to look into Bushnell and Vortex Scopes as well. Both of which are very good glass for the Money.

Just my 2cent

Great Looking Rifle BTW. I Love how it Looks!

Here's my Rem 700 5R .300WM in a PDC Custom Folder Chassis with the Bushnell Elite 4-24x50 FFP Mil/Mil Scope.

 

[spartan67]

Re: What is wrong with my setup and my mindset......

Tex. Welcome to the Hide!
I think everybody here knows how dam expensive its getting to practice. Many of us have kept our skills sharp by going to a good rimfire setup. It saves a bunch of $ due to ammo cost, and it really forces you to develop a good repeatable setup and fundamentals.

Lowlight has a sticky hear on the fundamentals of marksmanship.
You may want to check it out. Just my $.02 and good luck!

 

[sinister]

Re: What is wrong with my setup and my mindset......

You've got a rifle, scope, and ammo. Quit worrying and whining and go out and shoot the damn thing.

Once you've built an experience base where you think or know you're being held back by your equipment come back to us. There are many, many folks here who will help you improve.

 

[gstaylorg]

Re: What is wrong with my setup and my mindset......

Your post is entitled "What is wrong with my setup and my mindset...". After looking over what you have written, I would have to say I'm not sure that there is anything wrong with either. Sure, there are more expensive rifles/optics out there, but that's not really the point. There will <span style="font-style: italic">always</span> be more expensive "upgrades" available for LR shooting. The two most important questions for you to answer IMO are:

1) What type of shooting do you really want to do with your setup?

2) Does your setup perform well enough to accomplish that?

If the answer to question 2 is "yes", go practice.

If the answer to question 2 is "no", then you need to re-evaluate your setup specifically in terms of how to optimize it for the types of shooting you want to do.

If the answer to question 2 is "I'm not sure", then you need to get out with it and send some rounds downrange to see what it is capable of. You can do a box test for your optic as mentioned above, determine muzzle velocities for the loads you listed so you can generate some drop charts (using JBM Ballistics online, for example), then determine what level of precision it is capable of at various distances. If necessary, you can do these things alongside someone you know that is an accomplished LR shooter. This may be helpful if you are unsure whether your own shooting skills are taking full advantage of the capabilities of your setup.

Only when you have some idea of what your setup is really capable of will you be able to decide how well it will suit the types of shooting you want to do. If at that point you decide your setup will work sufficiently well for your intended goals, then you can think about how to train and improve your shooting skills with that setup.

Good luck with it; half the fun of shooting is testing your equipment and seeing how well it performs.

 

[Deej]

Re: What is wrong with my setup and my mindset......

tex, welcome to the hide. sounds like a good set up and you have a good attitude. ok the scope, the action, and caliber is wrong, for me. doesn't mean there is anything wrong with it. that is why they sell so many diferent types. my son isn't sold on my set up and i'm not sold on his, but it's anyones guess who can out shoot the other. i think what you need most is a little guidence. the blowing bullets down range just to send them doesn't do all that much good. if you can get with a shooter and have them help you out would be the biggest help you can get. i'm an old man and just recently had a young guy help me up and take me from a half moa guy to half of that just with a few pointers. and i'm shooting better prone now than off a bench. which wasn't the way i started.

 

[digitalshooter]

Re: What is wrong with my setup and my mindset......

First you need to be able to determine what you need to work on when shooting.

1) Don't shoot off of the roof of a rocking truck. I wonder why the truck was rocking BTW.

2) It helps to know where you need improvement in. When you can tell people that then they can give you ideas on how to work on those areas

3) Practice. While ammo prices might be getting more expensive it doesn't have to be expensive to shoot. There are things you can do that don't necessarily cost money

4) Practice on mastering one thing at a time. When you've improved enough on what you're practicing move on to something else

Things you can do for free:

1) Work on controlling your breathing and shooting at the right time within your breathing cycle

2) Trigger control by dry firing your rifle. Make sure the rifle isn't loaded when you are doing this though or it's no longer considered dry firing

3) Work on your aiming technique and being able to get your point of aim as close as possible using natural point of aim

Those things are all free and can be done at home and will help improve your shooting.

 

[farrier]

Re: What is wrong with my setup and my mindset......

Tex, I can't address the optic but the rest of your equip. seems adequate to start with. I would suggest a shooting class/school to sort you out and get you on the right track. Don't know where you're located but if Pennsylvania is do-able you could go to Jamie Dodson at Wolf Precision or Fred Wissig at Black Hat. Both are great teachers and have each helped a lot of shooters. If that won't work, look for someone in your locale. The $ spent on education will be $ saved on tossing bullets downrange.
Mike
ps Jamie is traveling with his school this year so maybe he'll have a class in your neighborhood. Check his website

 

[swampbuck]

Re: What is wrong with my setup and my mindset......

I think the set up is pretty good. I use the same rings for my rig. Truth is they have always given me good service. People do all kinds of drop tests and vehicle rollovers these days but a scope will give up long before those rings will.

You have some good advice here. To me the strong points are as follows

1. Dry firing is free. You can focus on trigger and breathing control with a tack on the wall. Remember to master one thing at a time.

2. Save you ammo for quality practice. If you aren't feeling it, it is negative 30 outsiders you have a fever or something you are wasting ammo. It is important to practice in less than ideal conditions when training for competition or combat but not when learning technique.

3. The best centerfire shooters consistently shoot lots of 22 rim fire. A good 22 will teach you the basic technique that everything else is built on breathing, trigger, positions. They Also help to negate bad habits like flinch and give you a great warm up before getting behind a 308. I like the cz 452 line but savage might be a great economy choice.

4. The best shooters also train in multiple positions. Don't be a bench warmer. I've never killed anything from a bench. They are useful for testing guns but not shooters. Learn how to use a good sling and train in standing kneeling sitting and prone. I also regularly train with shooting sticks or using a backpack post or tree as a brace.

5. Start reloading. First step is to pick up a manual and read the first few instructional chapters. A video might help as well. PS skip the parts about lead casting and irrelevant stuff for now. This will save you money after the initial investment and will be an avenue to more learning.

6. Set specific goals for yourself and give yourself a time frame. Competing may help you do this. Vague goals like "I want to be a better shooter" don't get you anywhere. "I want to be a 1/2 moa shooter by the end fo the year" is something that you can measure and push for.

7. Have fun. Again if it ain't your day shoot your 22. It is a lot less discouraging when your not burning expensive ammo on your off days. Shooting with a fever don't sound like fun to me. We all get discouraged. Don't let yourself get so uptight that it is no longer any fun.

 

[TexaSaiga]

Re: What is wrong with my setup and my mindset......

Sorry, been working the past two days. Thanks for all the tips fellas... That is what I needed. Lots of good input here. Look forward to future discussions! Now if I can just figure out how to get email notifications.......