Rifle Scopes japan scope prices , cheap to $$$$

[kiwiaug]

hi guys, been lyn in bed with bad back reading up the site, whats with Japanese scope prices? weaver, Bushnell, vortex, march and sightron , super sniper etc.
they are all made there but a big cost in the different tactical scopes , from $800 up to $2000+.
sightrons seem good for the price but a razor is more than double the price? march are more, why? they are all alloy tube, japan glass etc with different features but double the price?
are we getting ripped off? look at glocks half plastic so they are cheaply made but the price is still up with other pistols, magpul seems expensive for plastic too, why?
whats a 30rd pmag cost to make.....$4? and alloy mags sell cheaper?

it seems we are happy to pay big prices on shooting gear when it should be better priced, or are we paying for the name/

your thoughts

 

[Captramrod01]

I'm guessing you have not compared some of these scopes side by side. Same thing could be said about German scopes. What makes a Minox any different then a S&B since they both have German glass? To answer your question your paying for different levels of glass quality but more important your paying for durability and repeatability along with customer service. Also why wouldn't pmags be more expensive then their metal counterparts? For the most part they are better and demand has dictated what they are priced at.

 

[Bear24]

I'm guessing you have not compared some of these scopes side by side. Same thing could be said about German scopes. What makes a Minox any different then a S&B since they both have German glass? To answer your question your paying for different levels of glass quality but more important your paying for durability and repeatability along with customer service. Also why wouldn't pmags be more expensive then their metal counterparts? For the most part they are better and demand has dictated what they are priced at.

That was a very nice way to put it.

OP have you used any of the products that you mentioned?

 

[pawprint2]

Comparing side-by-side? One guys eye may be (and usually is) different from another. There are many scientific optic quality tests to determine "true" optic quality, this sort of testing never seems to be done on scopes. Kiwiaug, has some good points, many of us know the glass from many manufactures (some of the "gold standard" lines) are mfg in the same chinese plants, same machines, same people etc. Don't know about the Japanese glass, but Weaver seems to make a pretty good scope, and is selling for a lower price than some of those with the same features. How much time and money is spent for ads-thus creating demand, business model-establishing a market niche, and let's not forget supply and demand, equals=price. If the buying craze ever slows down, I'm guessing a lot of new pricing-big sales, etc. Remember the scope you paid $2000.00 for is now used, if the same or newer model goes on sale new for $1500.00, yours will be worth maybe $1000.00 or less. Things are only worth what people are willing to pay for them, if you can sell high because the market will let you, you will, when the market starts to turn south, there will be some price reductions, and maybe even some of those "old" firms that went tits up, and are "back", will go bye-bye once again.

 

[scudzuki]

Actually, Glocks are inexpensive compared to Steyr, HK, Sig Sauer, and similarly priced to other stiker fired polymer framed pistols.

Just because March and Bushnell (for instance) are both made in Japan does not mean they have the same glass, and they certainly don't have the same designs/feature sets.
Bushnell also makes much larger quantities than March, which drives their cost down.

Joe

 

[kiwiaug]

in the past i have have S&B pm1 6x42 on parker hale M85, PM2 3-12 on Tika t2 tac 308, psgi 6x hensoldt scope on g3, carls 6x42 on p/hale m82, leupold M3 3.5-10, us optics sn12,ior m2,
and still have 3-9 m3 on dmr upper, super sniper 20x, elcan, couple of acogs ta01nsn, m150, just got an mtac for 3gun shooting.plus 9 years in the trade. i've seen a few scopes...... o and have a 30rd p-mag too

 

[neeley205]

I just want a quality jap scope with german glass. . .I just got a 3.5-21 HMR for under $1400 and its great. . . OK, keep it exactly as it is otherwise, and slap german glass in for $500 more and roll it out the door. I could not buy 5 fast enough. Don't add another $600-800 in BS features onto it so its a $3K scope like the other germans. . Give me Jap manufacturing with german lenses. . . I might actually buy something on credit if that happened.

 

[phillip61]

I think I understand what you're saying. Theres a Polan chainsaw plant not far from here. They make polan, Huskyvarna, and one other brand (that I can't think of) all in the same plant. Same assembly lines and many times the same parts. I know this because a friend of mine worked there. Three saws, same CCs, different price?

Get a IOR scope, the japs can't duplicate them bad boys.

 

[EL34]

They may be made in the same plant/place, but I really doubt the same components are used in both the $800 optic, and the $2,000 optic. Japanese firms farm out stuff to other asian countries just like American firms as well. IMO, the Japanese make some pretty badass optics, they also make some pretty badass guitars, neither of which is cheap.

 

[scudzuki]

I think I understand what you're saying. Theres a Polan chainsaw plant not far from here. They make polan, Huskyvarna, and one other brand (that I can't think of) all in the same plant. Same assembly lines and many times the same parts. I know this because a friend of mine worked there. Three saws, same CCs, different price?

Get a IOR scope, the japs can't duplicate them bad boys.

I've read too many stories of IORs failing mechanically to buy one.
It's a shame since I hear the glass is nearly as good as the Germans (IOR uses Schott glass).

Joe

 

[tactic-als]

I do not own an IOR scope. But just to clarify about the numerous mechanical issues scudzuki refers to....were these recent? It is my understanding that when anyone mentions the mechanical issues IOR had, it was 3 or 4 years ago...pre Gen 3 or Gen 4? Not exactly relevant to purchasing one today.

 

[neeley205]

I've read too many stories if IORs failing mechanically to buy one.
It's a shame since I hear the glass is nearly as good as the Germans (IOR uses Schott glass).

Joe

And a couple years ago, bushnell was crap by precision rifle standards.
Now I'm rocking one on an APA rifle. I have been wondering about IOR again, almost got one but people started giving me shit about it. I may need to see if Scott at liberty optics has one that I can maybe try out and test. Most of the people I hear bringing up the internal issue, are dredging that up from a post, about a post about a post that happened years ago when they had a batch of crap ones go out and the tracking was crap.

 

[scudzuki]

And a couple years ago, bushnell was crap by precision rifle standards.
Now I'm rocking one on an APA rifle. I have been wondering about IOR again, almost got one but people started giving me shit about it. I may need to see if Scott at liberty optics has one that I can maybe try out and test. Most of the people I hear bringing up the internal issue, are dredging that up from a post, about a post about a post that happened years ago when they had a batch of crap ones go out and the tracking was crap.

But back then Bushnell was not selling their scopes at premium prices.

It's not just one bad batch of IORs, it was a succession of designs, Gen 1, Gen 2, etc. that experienced mechanical failures.
So you have one and it's holding together. Good for you.

Joe

 

[PDXGS]

It's just like cameras...most are good but some are better and some are truly remarkable.
I spent six years designing and fabrication lens assemblies for surveillance and high-end consumer products. All lens-train prescriptions are not the same, all glass is not the same, all glass coatings are not the same, all glass mounting systems are not the same, machining tolerances for bore diameter and concentricity are not the same.

Then add in the crazy recoil that scopes are subjected to and the fact that reticle and focus adjustment systems need to remain precise through a wide adjustment range, with repeatable accuracy and you've just made things extremely difficult from an engineering standpoint....and, just like glass, there are good engineers and there are great engineers.

Vortex has done an excellent job with their fabrication and design. March make a really well-made product with high end glass but their reticle choices are not that varied or modern.

You can see the same performance difference in Spotting Scopes and Binoculars- particularly at low light conditions.

 

[Outdoorsman9]

It's not just one bad batch of IORs, it was a succession of designs, Gen 1, Gen 2, etc. that experienced mechanical failures.
So you have one and it's holding together. Good for you.

Ever since I read that story about how rude the owner of IOR was to a U.S. Soldier, I will never even consider their optics.

 

[BigJimFish]

Ever since I read that story about how rude the owner of IOR was to a U.S. Solider, I will never even consider their optics.

To be fair, he's rude to everybody. I don't think he is specifically rude to soldiers or anybody else. I think it is more of a general policy. Even when Val is specifically trying to play nice with the press he can be intense enough that it is not comfortable. I don't think you can specifically fault an abrasive person for who he is abrasive to on a particular day though you can certainly fault him for the general personality trait.

I have sent an IOR in for repairs and the problem was taken care of, after the rudeness.