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Not happy with Kestrel!!!!!

bribri

bribri

Always Smooth
Full Member
Minuteman
Supporter
    • Sep 21, 2009
    1,132
    125
    Nebraska
    #1
    I purchased a Kestrel 4500 with the Horus software, and it worked great for the first few months of use. I took on a hunt in Texas a few months ago in December and the buttons didn't work, I had to push them really hard and then it got so bad I had to use a bullet tip to push them to get it to work. So I called the people at Kestrel and they had me send it in for evaluation.

    Two weeks later they contacted me and said this:

    "We have received and evaluated your kestrel unit. Unfortunately it has been damaged by battery corrosion and we cannot rebuild the unit as the corrosion has gotten to the board level. We have trade in options for replacing the unit with a discount. Please advise if you are interested in this and I can give you some more information."

    So I called them and was like WTF????

    They said since it was the batteries that caused the corrosion, and it had nothing to do with the unit itself, the damage would not be covered by the warranty. They also said I should remove the batteries when its not in use. I don't remember reading that in the manual, and that would be a pain in the ass to have to recalibrate it everytime I took out the batteries, wouldn't it? Then they told me my unit would have a trade in value of around $170 towards a new one. So, after spending near $600 for it and using it for less than six months, it doesn't work and its worth less than half of what I paid for it.

    BTW, my Kestrel was not used in any bad weather, nor did it ever get wet, and it was stored in my gun safe with a dehumidifier.

    Anyone else have this problem, because I'm obviously not happy with them....
     
    #2
    I have not had that problem.

    Most companies don't cover damage due to corroding batteries, and think about it, why would they? They built a $600 device that worked as advertised. Then a $2 item they don't manufacture fails and destroys their device.

    How is that their fault?
    How could they have avoided that?
    Shouldn't the battery manufacturer be liable for it's own product and the damage it creates when it fails?
    Why would company A pay to fix a failure of company Bs product?

    Just my $.02
     
    #4
    That sucks - I've had that problem before with electronics. Unfortunatly, not much you can do other than not store the equipment with batteries installed.

    Must have been some bad corrosion though to do that kinda damage. Usually some rubbing alcohol (use the type with the higher alcohol content) does a nice cleanup job with some q-tips.
     
    #8
    Evolution 9 said:
    I have not had that problem.

    Most companies don't cover damage due to corroding batteries, and think about it, why would they? They built a $600 device that worked as advertised. Then a $2 item they don't manufacture fails and destroys their device.

    How is that their fault?
    How could they have avoided that?
    Shouldn't the battery manufacturer be liable for it's own product and the damage it creates when it fails?
    Why would company A pay to fix a failure of company Bs product?

    Just my $.02
    Click to expand...

    As I understand it, the problem goes just a little bit deeper than that. First, there ARE other threads here on the 'Hide about this specific problem.

    That being said, and if I recall correctly, the newer batch of Kestrels now come with a default on its operating circuit (or some such geek crap) that it "automatically updates" even when it is in the OFF position. This way it can build a 'history' of the conditions it is able to monitor, such as humidity and temp and whatnot. The point I am trying to make, is that the constant 'use' is what kills the batteries, and then the continuous 'more use' is what causes the batteries to leak because of the "overdraining" that the Kestrels are doing to them.

    So, first one has to ensure you have good batteries (IE Lithium) in your Kestrel, and then secondly,,, one has to go though all the settings and whatnot, and turn OFF all the "subliminal monitoring" and whatever that shit is called, to prevent this from happening.

    So there you go, and this would be 'why' so many around here feel that the problem actually IS, Kestrel's to deal with. If it weren't such that the unit was darn-near "designed to fail".... one would think that it were poor programming.

    Of course, liability wise, there's a chance that that this is mentioned in the textbook that is called the Owners Manual. And of course'er, EVERYONE reads their owners manual from cover to cover, and can recite it chapter and verse in the local coffeeshop, can we?

    So what do you think of your $0.02 now?
     
    #9
    Sean the Nailer said:
    So what do you think of your $0.02 now?
    Click to expand...

    If your explanation is correct, it definitely sheds new light on the situation, though there are many other products that try to drain power after it's gone.

    If you had ended your post without the attitude, it would have been one of the more useful posts I've seen recently. Either way, thanks for the info.:D
     
    #10
    Evolution 9 said:
    If your explanation is correct, it definitely sheds new light on the situation, though there are many other products that try to drain power after it's gone.

    If you had ended your post without the attitude, it would have been one of the more useful posts I've seen recently. Either way, thanks for the info.:D
    Click to expand...


    The only post in this thread with attitude is yours.

    Just my $.02

    Thanks Sean for the info.
     
    #12
    Unbiased??? Put yourself in my shoes, I think you would be a little dissapointed too. I know "shit happens", but I just feel that Kestrel could have tried a little harder to work with me (the customer) on the situation.
     
    #13
    Whats your email, I'll forward it to HQ with URGENT in subject line.

    We have a had a few complaints on this issue, but 99.9 % of the units we field haven't malfunctioned. I've personally been using one since 06' and its been through everything from Afghanistan and Iraq. That goes for just about every other sniper on the front lines...

    I would suggest to contact the battery company and see what they have to say.
     
    #14
    I'll back up what sniper24INF said because I had a similar problem with my Kestrel 4000 last year. I'd been using it for less than a year and at some point the batteries that the unit came with corroded and killed the Kestrel. I went through the same thing that you did and was told the same thing that you were, I was SOL for getting it repaired but I could put it towards a new one. I took a chance and contacted the battery company, Raovac and took a close look at their battery warranty and basically under that warranty they gave me the full MSRP of a Kestrel 4000 plus a free pack of batteries. If you can get everything back from Kestrel including the batteries and contact the battery company to hold their feet to flames over the corroded batteries. I've been in your shoes and it sucks so good luck.
     
    #15
    Like Trigger, mine came with the Rayovac batteries, also. And mine leaked, within the first 4-5 months, also. But I was lucky, I guess, as I was able to clean out the crud with lemon-juice, and my Kestrel still works to this day. Also, the second thing I did was to put in the Lithium batteries. Actually, that was the third thing, cause I put in the batteries AFTER turning off the 'update' thing or whatever it's called. (Forgot to add, that I had learned about turning these things off, here in a different thread.)

    Am I happy with MY Kestrel, now that is is back up and running? Yes. Whereas, am I happy with "Kestrel Inc." for both the way they designed their product, and the way they leave their customers out to hang, dry?

    Not At All.

    My own personal opinion, but these items were lauded as the Maserati of weather instruments. Unfortunately, they seem to offer the Hyundai of service and warranty to their customers. And yes Virginia, there IS a difference.
     
    Last edited:
    #17
    Trigger Monkey said:
    I'll back up what sniper24INF said because I had a similar problem with my Kestrel 4000 last year. I'd been using it for less than a year and at some point the batteries that the unit came with corroded and killed the Kestrel. I went through the same thing that you did and was told the same thing that you were, I was SOL for getting it repaired but I could put it towards a new one. I took a chance and contacted the battery company, Raovac and took a close look at their battery warranty and basically under that warranty they gave me the full MSRP of a Kestrel 4000 plus a free pack of batteries. If you can get everything back from Kestrel including the batteries and contact the battery company to hold their feet to flames over the corroded batteries. I've been in your shoes and it sucks so good luck.
    Click to expand...

    I haven't seen too many Raovacs since I was a kid. This is an incredible story, and one that you don't hear about too often. Nice to know some companies will really step up to the plate. Raovac? Wow, who woulda thunk it!
     
    #18
    Trigger Monkey said:
    I'll back up what sniper24INF said because I had a similar problem with my Kestrel 4000 last year. I'd been using it for less than a year and at some point the batteries that the unit came with corroded and killed the Kestrel. I went through the same thing that you did and was told the same thing that you were, I was SOL for getting it repaired but I could put it towards a new one. I took a chance and contacted the battery company, Raovac and took a close look at their battery warranty and basically under that warranty they gave me the full MSRP of a Kestrel 4000 plus a free pack of batteries. If you can get everything back from Kestrel including the batteries and contact the battery company to hold their feet to flames over the corroded batteries. I've been in your shoes and it sucks so good luck.
    Click to expand...

    Best advice so far, get the unit and batteries back and give it a shot. Good luck. I keep inspecting mine and nothing yet... Damn I am going to go get some lithium batteries this weekend.
     
    #19
    After reading one of these threads.... I replaced my batteries with lithium ones... no issues to date, but I keep a close eye on em.

    if mine shit the bed in this fashion, I'd be pretty reluctant to trade up or buy another.

    best of luck brother
     
    #20
    bribri said:
    I purchased a Kestrel 4500 with the Horus software, and it worked great for the first few months of use. I took on a hunt in Texas a few months ago in December and the buttons didn't work, I had to push them really hard and then it got so bad I had to use a bullet tip to push them to get it to work. So I called the people at Kestrel and they had me send it in for evaluation.

    Two weeks later they contacted me and said this:

    "We have received and evaluated your kestrel unit. Unfortunately it has been damaged by battery corrosion and we cannot rebuild the unit as the corrosion has gotten to the board level. We have trade in options for replacing the unit with a discount. Please advise if you are interested in this and I can give you some more information."

    So I called them and was like WTF????

    They said since it was the batteries that caused the corrosion, and it had nothing to do with the unit itself, the damage would not be covered by the warranty. They also said I should remove the batteries when its not in use. I don't remember reading that in the manual, and that would be a pain in the ass to have to recalibrate it everytime I took out the batteries, wouldn't it? Then they told me my unit would have a trade in value of around $170 towards a new one. So, after spending near $600 for it and using it for less than six months, it doesn't work and its worth less than half of what I paid for it.

    BTW, my Kestrel was not used in any bad weather, nor did it ever get wet, and it was stored in my gun safe with a dehumidifier.

    Anyone else have this problem, because I'm obviously not happy with them....
    Click to expand...

    No way is that your fault. For a $600 instrument Kestrel better get their act together. For crying out loud I own $15 CB radios that hold batteries for years without corrosion. I would absolutely demand your money back. Ask to speak with the supervisors supervisor until you get as far to the top as you can. Eventually you'll get your money back. If not, repeat this story on every forum and drag their name through the mud. Wake those people up!
     
    #21
    I honestly don't understand that thousands of Kestrels are used each day in some of the most austere places on the face of this earth and their are no issues.

    Run them with lithium batteries and I assure you no issues.

    If you need someone to talk to I'm your guy, that's why they brought me on board. Let me see what I can do

    [email protected]
     
    Last edited:
    #23
    sniper24INF said:
    I honestly don't understand that thousands of Kestrels are used each day in some of the most austere places on the face of this earth and their are no issues.

    Run them with lithium batteries and I assure you no issues.

    If you need someone to talk to I'm your guy, that's why they brought me on board. Let me see what I can do

    [email protected]
    Click to expand...

    Hey thanks for stepping up and throwing your self out there. I hope that all gets resolved. What lithium batteries should i go with I have a 4000 on the way. And now I'm a little nervous about batteries now.



    To the OP thanks for this post.
     
    #24
    sniper24INF said:
    Why don't you come and wake me up. Don't sit here and start a fire, I already asked him to contact me.

    Every Tier 1 group, every combat arms sniper, every LE sniper uses a kestrel and were not getting feedback on this issue. Like I stated, Ill talk to the boss on this for him.
    Click to expand...

    I have no dog in this hunt. But definitely want this guy to be taken care of. Yesterday you wrote "We have a had a few complaints on this issue, but 99.9 % of the units we field haven't malfunctioned..." Sean, above, found similar issues. So it appears to be a known issue, albeit rare.

    Glad to see action is being taken.

    thanks
     
    #25
    steveptr said:
    Hey thanks for stepping up and throwing your self out there. I hope that all gets resolved. What lithium batteries should i go with I have a 4000 on the way. And now I'm a little nervous about batteries now.



    To the OP thanks for this post.
    Click to expand...

    Brother don't be nervous with the batteries. Just go with a legit brand like Energizer and your good to go. Trust me, if this was a problem, we wouldn't be supporting every sniper on the face of the earth, we be out of business.

    I understand the frustration and like I stated before, give me contact info and I will hand this off to the NK CEO.
     
    #29
    This is no-where near as 'rare' as is being hinted at or suggested, and tomorrow (thursday) I shall attempt to track down one or more of the former threads regarding this specific topic.

    It was here, that I learned of this problem, and it was here, where I learned to check to see (thankfully catching it before it was too late) and it was here where I learned to use the lemon-juice (Citric Acid) to neutralize the 'base' that had leaked out of the alkaline batteries.

    I am NOT the first one to complain about this issue, nor am I the first to be pissed off at Kestrel's offering of a 'pittance' versus a just reward. Hence, the displeasure of their leadership.

    I'll try to find what I can tomorrow, as I have NO idea what threads were able to make it through the latest purging and conversion.
     
    #30
    I have had Kestrel 4000 for over ten years and has been exposed to all kinds of conditions and never had any issues with the batteries. I pretty much use Duracell exclusively and if I know I won't be using it for a period of time I pull the batteries. Even good quality batteries can leak and damage any instrument. I learned the hard way. I had a expensive David White laser level that was trashed by leaving the batteries in it for an extended period of time without checking. Had to send he unit back to have it reconditioned which was not cheap. Definitely sucks about having that problem and hope Kestrel works with you on it.
     
    #31
    I talked to the woman from Kestrel at SHOT (who's name is escaping me at the moment), and I brought this issue up with her because I read about this happening on here before I went down. She said run some good lithium batteries and there should be no issues at all and that they had seen a few that had battery leakage. I said well then you should include them with the units. She said that they wanted to but with the price of lithium's it would raise the cost. Which in my opinion would be fine. I'd rather see the cost go up $6 or whatever then to ever have to deal with this issue, although I do understand where they are coming from. Anyway she was super nice, and helpful and I hope they get you all taken care of.

    Best of luck
     
    #32
    Sean the Nailer said:
    This is no-where near as 'rare' as is being hinted at or suggested, and tomorrow (thursday) I shall attempt to track down one or more of the former threads regarding this specific topic.

    It was here, that I learned of this problem, and it was here, where I learned to check to see (thankfully catching it before it was too late) and it was here where I learned to use the lemon-juice (Citric Acid) to neutralize the 'base' that had leaked out of the alkaline batteries.

    I am NOT the first one to complain about this issue, nor am I the first to be pissed off at Kestrel's offering of a 'pittance' versus a just reward. Hence, the displeasure of their leadership.

    I'll try to find what I can tomorrow, as I have NO idea what threads were able to make it through the latest purging and conversion.
    Click to expand...

    I agree with everything you've posted...i'm not bashing on kestrel, my 4000NV works and has for the last 5 years in military and tactical law enforcement environments, but I've had problems with the rubber sealer/"O" ring and the battery contact plate come off in the battery compartment and have heard of several others with the same problem...so i agree with you that we're paying good money and that customer service should be nothing less than stellar...also, for the cost of these units, the company should've fixed the problem I mentioned a while back...i realize it's not a hard fix, heck i took care of mine with glue, but again, what we pay for them, we shouldn't have to worry about these issues...i do want to say that i do recognize that kestrel has supported the military a bit and they have offered occasional "okay" sale/discounts for military and law enforcement, but sniper24INF, come on man, there 's got to be a better response from the company rep...not trying to knock on you, seriously i'm not, but your response appeared to be a little defensive when it should've been something like "sorry to hear about that, i'll look into this and take care of it!" again, i want to stress that i'm still using my unit and outside of the nagging-minor problem i had, i'm pleased with mine.....
     
    #34
    threetrees said:
    i wonder if you buy a new car, but bad oil into it and then have the engine fail ... whether you'd also complain to the car producer rather than the oil producer ...
    Click to expand...

    You would complain to them if it was the factory supplied oil that caused the problem. I.E. they tell you to run all-synthetic oil to keep engine safe, but supply the car to you with sub-standard regular oil. I think that it is inappropriate for Kestrel to supply regular alkaline batteries but say you need to run lithiums to keep unit safe. Of course it works on the regular ones (my most recent one came from Kestrel with Rayovac alkalines), but we are hearing there is increased risk of damage. I agree with deadnbrkn64 - supply the lithiums and either eat the cost or raise price.
     
    #35
    Known risk of damage with a certain (alkaline?) batteries....Kestrel believe this is not their problem/liability?

    No brainer.

    Manufacturer fits the correct/recommended batteries as standard. Who's going to object to spending a few extra $ on a unit this price for peace of mind knowing it won't have the problem?

    Then manufacturer amends existing documentation or prints a warning on either the packaging or a separate slip in the box recommending use of lithium or known products that WON'T cause the problem.

    Interesting to know if the manufacturer "original equipment" batteries caused the OP (and others) problem. That has to be Kestrel's problem if they did....doesn't it? After all...seems they know/knew about the problem......

    Glad I read this post....was thinking about buying a Kestrel....good intel and a good opportunity to pause for further thought.

    Thanks to all for a very useful post and input!

    OP, I hope they square this for you!
     
    Last edited:
    #36
    Krestel would be better of not supplying batteries at all and including documentation recommending lithium batteries. That would actually cost them less money and protect the end user. I agree that Krestel is not responsible for battery damage... unless they supplied sub-standard, non-recommended batteries with the unit or failed to include documentation warning against the use of sub-standard batteries.
     
    #37
    I had the same thing happen to my 4500 Horus last year. It was around 10 months old. I was told the same thing by Kestrel, send it back and buy a new one. I have owned two other Kestrels and have not had a problem until this one.
     
    #38
    As promised:
    http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/showthread.php?t=95851&highlight=kestrel+batteries
    and
    http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/showthread.php?t=158684&highlight=kestrel+batteries
    and
    http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/showthread.php?t=146544&highlight=kestrel+batteries
    I suggest ya'll pay close attention to post #33,#44, #46 and especially #49 in the above link.

    So, there you see a 'number' of people, having the same (near identical) problem over a considerable amount of time. Is this a "new" problem? I think not. Is this a "rare" problem? Compared with the populace of the world, or even just the Western Hemisphere, sure. But, compared with say.... Shooting hobbyists and enthusiasts who AREN'T doing this all day/every day/and through the night (with Thanks to those who do....), then yeah, I'd say that this isn't a "rare" problem. I'd define it more like a PROMINENT one, or even a PROFOUND PROBLEM.

    But that's just me. Maybe I expect too much from myself, and others whom I deal with. You know, that old antique adage of "a days pay, for a days work" and all that historical rot.
     
    #39
    There is a bit of blame to spread around in situations such as these. I do think that the user of a $600 professional-grade electronic tool should at least take more than a cursory glance at the user manual. That being said, as an electrical engineer, I feel that it's nearly inexcusable that the Kestrel will continue to drain the batteries to the extent that the batteries damage the device. It would be quite straightforward (if not exactly simple) to develop a means by which to disconnect the batteries when drained below a usable level of charge. It is reasonable to be upset by the fact that this mechanism has not been implemented on a device that: A) is explicitly designed to consume power even when not being used; and B) has a history of damaging itself due to the over-discharge of batteries.

    In the short term, I feel that the manufacturer needs to be far more active in warning the user of the danger posed by over-discharge of the batteries, or suggest a manufacturer and/or type of battery that will not leak if over-discharged. Longer-term, I do hope that a design fix is underway, because this isn't a disposable consumer-grade piece of inexpensive electronic gear.

    Sean the Nailer said:
    My own personal opinion, but these items were lauded as the Maserati of weather instruments. Unfortunately, they seem to offer the Hyundai of service and warranty to their customers. And yes Virginia, there IS a difference.
    Click to expand...

    Actually, having worked in the industry, I'd agree that there is a difference - and I'd go with the Koreans every time :p
     
    #40
    Batteries corrode because one reaches full discharge before the other. The one with charge remaining drives the dead one into voltage reverse and then the cell leaks. Well balanced cells will reach full discharge nearly simultaneously so the is no problem with corrosion. Cells get out of balance if the are old because self-discharge rates vary from cell to cell. It can also happen if one is not new, and also if they are of low quality. I'd address the battery manufacturer.
     
    #41
    Sean the Nailer said:
    Maybe I expect too much from myself, and others whom I deal with. You know, that old antique adage of "a days pay, for a days work" and all that historical rot.
    Click to expand...
    I don't think so..................these units are expensive and we should expect them to last a reasonable perfromance life. Unless there is a far reaching conspiracy with copy-cats attempting to facilitate an agenda against Kestrel there is obviously a problem here that the manufacturer is refusing to address, at least effectively. I have two units, a 4000 and the 4500 NVBT. Both have functioned flawlessly but I wonder if not for the complaints of others and the resulting religious practice of taking out the batteries during long periods of innactivity would my 4500 be junk also. Perhaps a "HUGE" warning sticker to the effects of the battery drain and result might be a simple fix? In any event, deflecting the blame to the user and/or battery manufacturer does not eliminate the responsibility of Kestrel for help in resoving this problem.
     
    #43
    Again I'm still waiting for that email SIR. I have already contacted the CEO and I'll post her response when it arrives.

    Everybody realizes that Kestrels are used everyday in all of the Military sniper schools, military sniper units, LE units and our foreign allies...and we haven't received complaints like the ones found on the hide.

    PMCS your Kestrel. Clean the device, take the batteries out to blow out any dirt in the compartment. Change batteries if you see any wear. Then recalibrate your compass (which takes 10 seconds) and your back in business.

    I do appreciate the suggestions being made and I always pass every suggestion up.
     
    #45
    Hmmm...so you put your Kestrel in an inexpensive pouch (not made by Kestrel) and the velcro fails, dropping you Kestrel on the concrete and it breaks.
    By the OP's reasoning Kestrel should replace it.
    Why??
     
    #47
    bobtodrick said:
    Hmmm...so you put your Kestrel in an inexpensive pouch (not made by Kestrel) and the velcro fails, dropping you Kestrel on the concrete and it breaks.
    By the OP's reasoning Kestrel should replace it.
    Why??
    Click to expand...

    If the inexpensive pouch came with the Kestrel and was known to cause issues, would your opinion change? Read the thread before bashing the OP.
     
    #48
    Update!!!!!!

    Just thought I'd let you know what happened.

    Kestrel said they would now take 55% off retail value for a new one. So I would have to pay $280

    What do you guys think?
     
    #49
    bribri - FWIW my opinion is that if the batteries you had in the unit were the original ones supplied by Kestrel and they knew that this problem might occur, it is irrelevant who made the batteries. Kestrel put them in there so it is their responsibility to warn purchasers that this problem is known and provide advice on how to avoid it.

    If they have failed to do so (either through stating such in the manual, packaging or by use of an extra printed notice in the box), then they should be fully responsible for damage to their product in normal use, using originally supplied batteries.

    Whether this offer is just them seeing how to best limit the damage and eventually they could be persuaded to accept full responsibility is another issue.

    Did you check on the battery manufacturers liability/warranty?
     
    #50
    Its a tough choice. You bought the kestrel because of the features it offered.

    Falling to the ground and breaking is likely with any dropped electronic device.

    But you used the batts and followed the directions (based on what you described)

    Should it have failed? Probably not. But Ive replaced enough dead flashlights to know sometimes batteries leak and sometimes they go south with the batts

    The manufactuer has offered one at deep discount ( near or below cost I would guess)

    Its your call. Would you be satisfied with a cheaper alternative?

    Is this equip you would use again?

    Do you still like the features offered?

    Would you be happy with the $40 made in china knock off?


    I would say that kestrel has a rep of being a quality item. I would like to get one for that price, but I havent had one damaged and fail.




    Sent from my SPH-M830 using Tapatalk 2
     
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