I am in the process of purchasing my first long-range rifle and want to hand-load ammunition for it. Obviously accuracy and repeatability are my goals. I have a Hornady LNL progressive press that I currently use for handgun ammo. Everything I have read says a single-stage press will give me more consistency from one round to the next. I have also read that consistency can suffer because of Hornady's bushing system, that the bushings can back-out ever so slightly and cause variances between rounds. Any shared experience would be appreciated.
- Thread starter chesepioc
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milo 2.0
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With a progressive you're pretty much limited to ball, flake, or small kernal powder with the dispenser system.
I'm not saying you can't load great ammo on a prog, it's just that it only stands to reason a ss will rule.
I'm not saying you can't load great ammo on a prog, it's just that it only stands to reason a ss will rule.
im so happy I got my hornady LNL progressive press..... can still do top notch rifle ammo with the option for doing pistol.... really speeds up rifle ammo reloading & use chargemaster on the side for dropping powder for high end ammo,,,, or really speed things up with powder drop for plinking ammo. just my 2cents.
I have a LNL Progressive as well and it is a little clumsy loading larger calibers i.e. long-actions like my 270 and 338 Lapua,... That said, it'll work. The auto-index of the shell plates is GREAT for loading smaller calibers, but it gets in the way with the long cases. Personally, I went out and picked up a Hornady LNL single-stage for my rifle rounds and LOVE it! I really like the bushings you can get to quick-change your dies in a single twist - works great! I'm far faster reloading my big/heavy's with the single-stage than the progressive,... but then again, I also use a Chargemaster dispenser that fills the pan while I'm seating bullets,... which is a huge time saver. I also like being able to use the Redding competition shell holders to quickly play with seating depth - in case you're not familiar with them, they allow you to slap in another shell holder to get .002" incremental changes in seating depth,... it's a little thing, but it's just another level of control that I like having.
Ive got a LnL progressive as well and would not use it to load precision rifle ammo. At least on mine, I do not find it to be as accurate as I would like.
Cartridges know how much time you spent creating them, which is why you must show love and undying devotion, SLOWLY reloading ammo, or it is prone to be inaccurate at best, take vengeance on your barrel by digging into grooves and scratching them, or, if you load really quickly, blowing your receiver into a million-billion pieces.
I build machines. They have personalities, better known as quirks.
LR requires precision and progressives have too many uncontrollable variables.
I use my LnL for my AR15 but not for any of my bigger calibers.
LOL turbo. I use a forster Co-ax for precision rifle, Hornady LnL for the rest
buy a single stage for long range (think consistency), buy a progressive for auto loaders and high volume reloading where extreme precision is not needed.
chesepioc,
Yes, you can load precision ammo on a progressive, but the process involves using the press in a very "un-progressive" manner. I load my Match ammo on a Dillon RL550, but it's a two-step process whereby the first pass through the press sizes and deprimes the case, along with checking the shoulder set-back via a Redding Instant Indicator. From there, the cases get trimmed (as needed), chamfered/deburred, inspected again, and finish polished. On the second pass thru the press, I use a second tool head that's set up with a decapper (just to ensure that the flash holes are clear). The cases are then primed, charged using a BR-30 in an RL450 powder die (still available from Dillon), and the bullets seated. Not exactly what the idea of a normal progressive press operation conjures up, but its worked for me for many years. Call it a semi-progressive. And yes, I also still load extensively using a Forster Co-Ax when I don't need the volume of ammo.
Unless you're talking about loading in minimum 1,000 rd batches, I'd run the single stage.
Yes, you can load precision ammo on a progressive, but the process involves using the press in a very "un-progressive" manner. I load my Match ammo on a Dillon RL550, but it's a two-step process whereby the first pass through the press sizes and deprimes the case, along with checking the shoulder set-back via a Redding Instant Indicator. From there, the cases get trimmed (as needed), chamfered/deburred, inspected again, and finish polished. On the second pass thru the press, I use a second tool head that's set up with a decapper (just to ensure that the flash holes are clear). The cases are then primed, charged using a BR-30 in an RL450 powder die (still available from Dillon), and the bullets seated. Not exactly what the idea of a normal progressive press operation conjures up, but its worked for me for many years. Call it a semi-progressive. And yes, I also still load extensively using a Forster Co-Ax when I don't need the volume of ammo.
Unless you're talking about loading in minimum 1,000 rd batches, I'd run the single stage.
+1 on the above posts. I have a LNL press for all my pistol calibers and M4 ammo. The rest I load on a single stage press.
Dillon 550b here, all the way from the start.
Nothing a single stage press can do, that a good progressive press can't do better...except forcing one to go more slowly, that is.
If you can only buy one and you WILL be doing mass batches of say...223 ammo and/or pistol ammo, get a progressive.
Chris
Nothing a single stage press can do, that a good progressive press can't do better...except forcing one to go more slowly, that is.
If you can only buy one and you WILL be doing mass batches of say...223 ammo and/or pistol ammo, get a progressive.
Chris
That's just crazy talk, man. Everyone knows accurate rifle ammo must be loaded slowly on a single stage.
Speaking of which, I'm developing a half-stage press to slow the process down even more for better accuracy.
absolutely... the 550 with a powder funnel in conjunction with a chargemaster has produced great results.
I however started with a SS press.... so I have both.
Add to that Whidden tool head and shell holder with larger bearing to reduce flex in the shell holder
This one. I usually do smaller batches though, 200 - 500; works just like a turrent press if I'm doing load work-ups. I think the ease of the 550 over the 650 is not haveing the auto-indexing. I've tried working with my brother's 650 semi-progressive and it's not as easy for me. I haven't tried the Hornady package though.
That's what I use, too. I love the co-ax.
I like the single stage presses for LR loading. I use two seprate RCBS presses a old partner press for sizing and deprimeing and a rock chucker for seating. I think you get better consistency from the single stage presses. Its more time consuming yes but it will pay off in the end.
I use my LnL classic for everything, LR or not. Some complain about the time, but I rather enjoy sitting at the press depriming until I get bored, toss it in the cleaner, come back and size/prime until I get bored, come back and load/seat until I get bored. This way I can ensure I see every part of every round and am never sitting at the press mindlessly placing cases in a plate and pulling a lever. I thought of upgrading to a LnL AP, but after seeing the price tag and thinking about not seeing every single part of what I have done, I passed. I'd grab a single stage and go to town with it. You'll find that it isn't as slow as all progressive adds say they are. P.S. If you have a wiffy/gf (or BF) hand them the hand primer and make them prime for you. Make it a family thing.
If you want accuracy and consistency, a single-stage press is the way to go. It is slower, but you are trying to achieve quality, not quantity. (I use an RCBS Rock Chucker)
Turret presses give you a little more speed and flexibility, but, if you get a cheaply made one, sometimes the turret can have movement than can cause inconsistencies. (I would choose the Redding T-7)
Progressive presses are the way to go for high volume. (I use a Dillon XL650)
Progressive presses do produce good ammo...there is no doubt. However, not to the extent that I can produce by weighing my powder charges 2-3 times and ensuring they are not off even by a tenth of a grain while having no movement in my press by using a single stage.
Turret presses give you a little more speed and flexibility, but, if you get a cheaply made one, sometimes the turret can have movement than can cause inconsistencies. (I would choose the Redding T-7)
Progressive presses are the way to go for high volume. (I use a Dillon XL650)
Progressive presses do produce good ammo...there is no doubt. However, not to the extent that I can produce by weighing my powder charges 2-3 times and ensuring they are not off even by a tenth of a grain while having no movement in my press by using a single stage.
Pretty sure Federal, Hornady, Black Hills and all the other factory "match" ammo is loaded on a rock chucker and each charge weighed 2-3 times and adjusted down to the last kernel.
I mean, it shoots well so it would have to be, right?
I mean, it shoots well so it would have to be, right?
Loaded lots of good stuff on my 550b just took my time doing it. I use my 550 as a single stage quite a bit in conjunction with my chargemaster. The powder measure IMHO can not be trusted with large charges or grain powder. If you have the money to spend and the room for it get a second press but IMHO I don't think it's absolutely necessary.
ponsness warren,
You can load pretty fast with better quality control than most progressive presses.
You can load pretty fast with better quality control than most progressive presses.
David does load his stuff on a Dillon progressive (a 550, I think), and has for many years. However, as I alluded to in my own set up, it's not a box-stock press and has been modified a bit to suite his particular needs . . . like the addition of a Promethius powder measure. Pretty sure he also has some extensive brass prep before feeding it into the press for the final charging/seating operations, just as I do.
That said, no, quality ammunition doesn't depend on using a single stage press. It is entirely dependant upon doing it right, no matter what sort of press is being used.
That said, no, quality ammunition doesn't depend on using a single stage press. It is entirely dependant upon doing it right, no matter what sort of press is being used.
Okay, I didn't get that from reading the string, it isn't about a SS press vs a Progessive, but rather the quality of the equipment being used, thanks for the heads up. I was wrongly under the impression, that- some posters believed, one could not produce high quality ammo from a progessive press, period. I have no doubt some progesive presses produce low quality rounds, but then again, I believe some SS presses do the same. Low quality dies in a good press, will produce low quality ammo, and the list goes on..... just saying.
I have a single stage hornaday and I can't stand the bushing system. It's a good convenient idea, but I always get some play in the bushings when resizing after they get used for a while and it's really annoying.
Sure he uses a Dillon. You think that has anything to do with how Bubba uses a Dillon?
Here's the deal. You can absolutely load match quality ammo on a dillon progressive. There are top level competitors that do. There are posts on the hide about how to do it. It takes a little more knowledge and there is definitely going to be a learning curve. Probably easier to do on a single stage. How much time do you want to invest to learn? I've heard a big part of it is getting your tool head pinned down. There are some places that sell the kits to pin down your tool head on your dillon presses.
I am not in rush to produce large quantities quickly. It is more of a hobby than a chore so a single stage is perfect for me. That's the first I have ever heard of Hornady's bushings backing out. Where did you read that?
RCBS Rock Chucker, Hornady Lock n Load bushings, RCBS Competition dies for all rifle loads.
Dillon 550 and a Square Deal B for pistol.
My .02
Dillon 550 and a Square Deal B for pistol.
My .02
I use a Dillon RL550 for pistol rounds, a Redding T7 for rifle rounds. Works good for me. The turrets are nice for caliber changes on the T7.
Gary
Gary
I curently use a 550 for pistol and .223. I am just starting to load .308, and even with some uniquetek parts, if I can't get what I want out of it, I'll buy a single stage.
It's all about the right tool for the right job. The 550 does a spectacular job of cranking out straight-walled pistol and .223 by the thousand. I don't have a need for "pretty good" .308 ammo by the thousand, I have a need for a few hundred PRECISION .308 at a time. I'm going to give the 550 a chance, but we'll see.
IMO, start with the 550 if you will be reloading other high-volume rounds (9mm, .40, .223, etc), and try your bolt gun ammo on it. If you aren't satisfied with the precision you get for the bolt gun, you can always add a single stage. They don't take up much space...
It's all about the right tool for the right job. The 550 does a spectacular job of cranking out straight-walled pistol and .223 by the thousand. I don't have a need for "pretty good" .308 ammo by the thousand, I have a need for a few hundred PRECISION .308 at a time. I'm going to give the 550 a chance, but we'll see.
IMO, start with the 550 if you will be reloading other high-volume rounds (9mm, .40, .223, etc), and try your bolt gun ammo on it. If you aren't satisfied with the precision you get for the bolt gun, you can always add a single stage. They don't take up much space...
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