Gunsmithing Advice I was given ny gunsmiths

[keninsb]

I have a brand new Remmy 700 SPS-AAC SD and wanted to get some work done to it (true the action, crown the muzzle, install a muzzle brake, install a HD recoil lug, true the bolt face, install a tactical bolt knob and possibly spiral flute the bolt). Some of the smiths gave me estimates, some ony did some of the requested mods/upgrades and a few told me to just shoot the rifle as is and call them if there is a problem (I appreciated their honesty). The only problem fo me with that approach is that the closest range here in gun friendly CA is 40 minutes away and is kind of a pain with some physical limitations that I have.
So, what I have decided to do is install the bolt knob myself (I have done it before), do some of the small upgrades myself (install HD bolt release spring, Jewell Trigger and muzzle brake). As a "temporary" fix to align the muzzle brake, I used a shim kit sold by Brownell's here:
http://www.brownells.com/rifle-part...-muzzle-device-alignment-shims-prod38890.aspx
I know that the shi kit is for an AR/M16 platform, but again it is a temporary fix. I wish that I could crown the muzzle myself, but am not crazy about the "Midway Method".
Anyway, I plan to shoot the rifle when i get a chance with the minor mods that I can perform and go from there. Does anyone have any suggestions or advice?
Ant input is GREATLY appreciated.
Thanks,
Ken

 

[BigBlue&Goldie]

What caliber? What glass/rings/base? Do you reload?

I agree with the gunsmiths.

1) Bolt knobs don't make a rifle more accurate
2) Spiral fluting the bolt doesn't make a rifle more accurate
3) Flash hiders/muzzle brakes don't make a rifle more accurate

Having a gunsmith rework a factory barrel is likely a waste of your money when $300-$400 beyond their labor will get you a match grade barrel. You would be best off spending your money on reloading equipment or a proper stock for your rifle as the factory one is junk. Like the gunsmiths said, your rifle might be a tack driver as is........why fix it if it ain't broken?

 

[keninsb]

Gotcha BBG. I watched an AGI video called "Super Tuning the Factory Rifle" by Darryl Holland. It was a great video and Darryl Did an awesome job. I thought having the work done to the rifle would "Super Tune" it and save me countless trips to the range.
I already have a AI 2.0 Chassis System, an Atlat Bipod and Monopod, an MRad Muzzle Brake, the Jewell Trigger, a Holland's HD Recoil Lug, a Badger rail and Badger rings. I also already have a Bushnell 4.5-30X50 6500 Elite Tactical Scope (I know, I know but the price was WAY too good to pass up). I have not got into reloading yet.
MUCH thanks for the advice.
Ken

QUOTE=BigBlue&Goldie;2398168]What caliber? What glass/rings/base? Do you reload?

I agree with the gunsmiths.

1) Bolt knobs don't make a rifle more accurate
2) Spiral fluting the bolt doesn't make a rifle more accurate
3) Flash hiders/muzzle brakes don't make a rifle more accurate

Having a gunsmith rework a factory barrel is likely a waste of your money when $300-$400 beyond their labor will get you a match grade barrel. You would be best off spending your money on reloading equipment or a proper stock for your rifle as the factory one is junk. Like the gunsmiths said, your rifle might be a tack driver as is........why fix it if it ain't broken?[/QUOTE]

 

[seanh]

First decide if it's a "want" or a need. You'll likely find that if you give your rifle a chance, you can find a load that will shoot well from it. Now, there is nothing wrong with simply wanting a semi-custom setup but make sure that is the reason you go through the trouble first. A lot of people think they "need this or that" when at the end of the day, they're just trying to justify a purchase.

Years ago when I got my 700 Police, I shot it a couple years then decided I wanted to get work done to it for two reasons. One, I wanted to get into long range high power competition and two, the rifle couldn't shoot well under sustained fire. Well, due to work, I shit caned the competition idea but I still wanted a shooter.

Since the only real issue was that I couldn't shoot as many rounds as I wanted before I needed to let it cool. I simply accepted that and limited my strings and let the barrel cool. Well, 10 years later I still hadn't done' any work...it simply was a great shooter with factory match loads and an exceptional shooter with my hand loads. It took a while to realize that I simply "wanted" the work and that it wasn't needed. I'm glad that I spend my money on ammunition and reloading supplies, other hobbies etc.

I will say I finally got my rifle rebuilt but I'm glad that prior to this I spend my money on ammunition and reloading supplies, other hobbies etc...got a lot of mileage out of that gun.

If you decide that you want to do work to the gun, don't nickle and dime it- buy a barrel from a reputable manufacturer and get the action/bolt tuned, scope holes opened/properly aligned, get it coated in what you want...all done at one time. You'll have something that you're proud of, that you can say "it's done" and will last you many years of shooting

 

[2156SMK]

I watched an AGI video called "Super Tuning the Factory Rifle" by Darryl Holland.
It was a great video and Darryl Did an awesome job.
I thought having the work done to the rifle would "Super Tune" it and save me countless trips to the range.

It is my opinion that truing the receiver will only show an improvement if you using a premium quality barrel.
If you are not going to rebarrel, your gains from truing will be very small.
You could set the factory barrel back after truing and get some real accuracy gains, but you would then be limited to the accuracy that the factory barrel will give you.
If you are gonna true it, put a new barrel on it too.
If you are not gonna put a new barrel on it, don't bother truing.

No amount of gunsmithing work will make you shoot better.
Only lots of shooting will make you shoot better.
I would be suprised if any factory 700 would not shoot 5/8 moa groups with a load it likes.
I would be even more suprised if a new bolt-action shooter could reliably shoot 5/8moa groups with a 1/4moa capable rifle.
I would not bother rebarreling and truing a gun until you are reliably shooting 5/8moa groups with it.
THEN, you are ready to see what kind of improvements are to be had with the work.
Until then, shoot the factory tube...

 

[keninsb]

Thanks for all of the advice guys. I agree, I think I need to concentrate on getting to the range and get some practice in before I do anything more. To this point it has kind of been an episode of "Pimp My Rifle" I know there are a lot of smiths as well as serious shooters so as a rookie I am REALLY appreciating this forum.
Thanks again,
Ken

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Not to be inconsiderate, but most factory rifles will outshoot their owners by a significant margin.

The kind of work you're seeking would suggest that you are not one of those aforementioned owners.

My basic rule of thumb is that I don't fix something until I can demonstrate conclusively that the particular something is actually broken. If it's broke, it will misbehave in a similar manner no matter who shoots it. Until then, it ain't broke.

Where a factory barrel is involved, about the only work I would consider having done to it is a professional crown evaluation (and recrowning if determined by that professional to be in need of such) about every 1000 rounds (or when there is clear and visible evidence of physical damage). More expenditure than that on a factory barrel is probably unwarranted, and replacement with a premium aftermarket barrel should be considered as a primary alternative.

Blueprinting without a premium aftermarket barrel is not advisable. Think in terms of putting lipstick on a pig. The heart of any rifle is its barrel; and while factory barrels are different from premium aftermarket barrels, that does not by any means indicate that they are bad barrels. It just means that there are also better ones available. No barrel deserves to be disparaged unless it has demonstrated genuine deficiency. Otherwise, it deserves to be used to the limits of its potential, and only when those limits prove deficient should alternative approaches be considered seriously.

Greg

 

[keninsb]

Greg, after thinking about it and reading all the great advice from other Hiders on this thread I have to say that you are absolutely right. I guess part of my problem is that due to some physical limitations, I have been doing more tinkering and mods than shooting. Some of the mods are funtional and some are aesthetic. Big Blue was right when he said that a tactical bolt handle won't make a rifle more accurate, but with the nerve damage I have (and the all thumbs factor) I think it will make it easier to cycle the bolt handle. The muzzle brake will lessen the recoil which I definitely need with my neck and shoulder issues and I really think that the tupperware Remington stocks are worthless so I wanted a good stock.
I did grow up shooting, but haven't been in a long while. I definitely think that you are right about the rifle being moe than accurate enough for my limited skills. I also think that your advice on the barrel is dead on and makes perfect sense. That is why I started this thread, because I thin there is a wealth of knowledge on this forum and just wanted hiders take on the advice that I have received from the smiths (which seems to have been validated).
Thanks for the advice, I really appreciate it.
Ken

 

[JJones75]

Like everybody said , most factory guns are very capible of decient accuracy.
That said i think most will benefit from a true crown , bedding and a trigger job , the crowning needs to be done in a lathe and the muzzle can be threaded at the same time , the bedding and trigger can be done by most people that are reasonably mechanicaly minded. Some times doing these things will do nothing for accuracy but somtimes it will bring a 1"-3/4" gun down to the 1/2" range.
Save the action work for a new barrel

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Thank you; the advice I gave is simply the advice I have picked up here over the past decade or so and passed on.

Until recently, I needed to count all my pennies and only spend them when I was sure they would buy a genuine improvement. Looking back, that approach served me well and there's absolutely no reason why it shouldn't continue to do so still.

I have only one rifle I could reasonably call a custom. It has been a .308 and a .260 over the years, and is now a .30BR. Once the original Savage action was blueprinted, it has only required rebarrelilng in order to change the chambering.

I made my bones on factory rifles, and have owned and enjoyed both service rifles and many domestic Factory Rifles. I like Savage especially, because their extensive line of products makes many an idea for a custom unnecessary. While any manufacturer can goof up, I have found the my Savage rifles to be impeccable straight out of the box. With load development, they shoot to a particularly high potential, and that's also true of essentially all the other major manufacturers as well.

Like most here, I made my mind up to be the best I could, and logically assumed it would require only the best implements that money could buy. Great way to waste perfectly good money. My factory rifles were always at least my equal, and I strive to this day to get the full potential out of my custom rifle. I also learned that good marksmanship is not measured in inches, but in the manner to which one can shoot any rifle, precision or crude, to its full potential. I get my most fun shooting old service rifles, and very rarely does one shoot to the same potential as a modern factory sporter or varmint rifle. None of that tempers the fun in any significant manner.

If you make it a job to be slaved over, the fun will be long in coming. Take what you can find and enjoy it for itself.

Greg

 

[keninsb]

Thanks again all. I hear the importance of the crown. What do you guys think of "the Midway method" with hand tools here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b43odFm0mrI
Thanks again, you guy have been great.
Ken

 

[Killshot44]

The factory crown is likely much better than what you would end up creating.

Leave the rifle alone, learn to handload.

 

[JelloStorm]

First upgrade should always be a stock and bed it. Many factory barrels are sub-moa as it is so why burn $$ til you have to

 

[SteelW0LF]

When you mentioned the "Midway Method", I thought you were referring to polishing compound on the head of a wood screw.... that's in another video, and I'ld be reluctant to do that to a 22.

Thanks again all. I hear the importance of the crown. What do you guys think of "the Midway method" with hand tools here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b43odFm0mrI
Thanks again, you guy have been great.
Ken

 

[JJones75]

Thanks again all. I hear the importance of the crown. What do you guys think of "the Midway method" with hand tools here:
Thanks again, you guy have been great.
Ken

I'm sure that is better than nothing but like said above i'd bet the factory crown is better than what you would end up with using that. Send it to sombody that will do it right so that the crown is cut perfect 90 deg to the bore and in the same setup the muzzle can be threaded to meet your needs

 

[keninsb]

Thanks again guys. I think that I am good and just need to go with what I have and get in lots of practice.
Ken

 

[buffybuster]

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

You're leaning towards Fixing it until it's broke.......

Shoot the barrel out, then commence the fixing......