• Watch Out for Scammers!

    We've now added a color code for all accounts. Orange accounts are new members, Blue are full members, and Green are Supporters. If you get a message about a sale from an orange account, make sure you pay attention before sending any money!

F T/R Competition Shooting my first f-class with my AI

G

GUNENTHUSIAST

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Jan 8, 2010
297
20
SE PA
Hey guys,
My buddy and I plan to shoot our first f-class at the national matches at Camp Perry this summer. We only have precision rifles that we use for sniper type matches. What do we need to do to our rifles to make them rule compliant as well as more competitive in f-class? We have bipods and suppressors, I heard muzzle brakes aren't allowed since it disturbs other shooters, but I'm not sure about suppressors since they make it more pleasant for everyone.

Thanks!
 
OFFICIAL F-CLASS RULES

F-Class has two categories: F-T/R & F-Open.
Both are fired from the prone position.
Briefly, the rules are as follows:


F-T/R

Caliber limited to .223 or .308 (unmodified).
Sling and/or bipod allowed.
Rifle weight limit of 8.25 kgs (approx. 18.18 lbs).

For more information on FTR rules and shooting, please visit the U.S. FTR Team's website at http://www.usftrclass.com/home.htm
 
no suppressors in nra competitions. no muzzle breaks in nra competitions. single round loading only in f class. still want to come to perry?
 
Yeah, that sucks. No cans, no feeding from a magazine (because that would give you an unfair advantage, don't you know??), but it's perfectly kosher to have a 36" barrel and load your .308s out so far a stiff wind would knock them out of the case neck.

Don't give yourself a headache arguing. Get a muzzle nut made, and shoot according to their stupid rules. At least you'll get some trigger time at long range.
 
Thanks for all the replies guys! Well it's unfortunate, and maybe a little silly, but I'm just thrilled to finally be able to come shoot the National Matches with the rifles I own. I have shot several 50 bmg matches there a few years back but that was a small club event. I only live a couple hours away. Is it ok to just leave the exposed threads on my barrel when the brake/suppressor is taken off?
 
First understand that F class is a division of NRA HighPower shooting. F-TR stands for F-Target Rifle, there is nothing tactical in it. The whole class was born when some older Palma shooters came up with a fun class to put scopes and bipods on their palma guns.

Here are the rules -> NRA HP Rules All of the HP rules apply with the exceptions that are noted beginning in section 19 if I recall (it's the F class section)

No muzzle devices, no mag feeding. F-TR is 223 and 308, everything else is F-0pen.

Is Camp Perry letting F class shoot again this yr? We were allowed to play last yr because the Americas Match was being held there and it includes F class. I have not seen any information that says we get to go back.

Edit: If F class is allowed back to Camp Perry this year I don't expect the ranks to be too full. The 2013 HP matches are Aug 10- Aug 14, the first day of the F class National championship is Aug 18 in Raton, and the Nationals are back to back with the worlds, so many of us (self for sure) will be in Raton for almost 2 weeks. That is really close. It would be a great tuneup for Raton but that would be 4 days of shooting, a day of driving to get home, an arse load of reloading on Thursday, untold promises and favors owed to my family then 2 days driving out to Raton. It's doable but probably not happening.
 
Last edited:
I think they are having f-class again. I emailed the NRA about it and they said they would mail me the sign up papers. Thanks for the link, very informative!
 
XTR said:
First understand that F class is a division of NRA HighPower shooting. [/i]
Click to expand...

Crap, I was hoping that the F-Class/Highpower man-love drama would not exist in the United States. I didn't know it was that way, I have 7 months left in Australia (where I started shooting F-Class in 2010) and we have the same bullshit here.

Maybe I'll just shoot tac matches and forget about it.
 
Muskox said:
Crap, I was hoping that the F-Class/Highpower man-love drama would not exist in the United States. I didn't know it was that way, I have 7 months left in Australia (where I started shooting F-Class in 2010) and we have the same bullshit here.

Maybe I'll just shoot tac matches and forget about it.
Click to expand...

I think you may need a little history lesson. The whole class was started by Palma shooters who wanted to do something different. F Class is a recognized division of HP, all the countries that participate play by what are effectively the same rules. It's target shooting for score. There is no steel, there are no active targets, it's prone shooting with a scope, rear bag, and pod or rest.

The I.C.F.R.A (International Confederation of Fullbore Rifle Associations) holds the World Championships, which happen to start the day after then Nationals here in the US this yr. When the world decided to accept F class they pretty much just accepted the US rules, so you're just going to have to get all tacticool somewhere else. F Class is round targets on rectangular fields. If you don't like the rules there are plenty of tactical matches out there.

You are however welcome to come and shoot any F class match as long as you play by the rules. These days I shoot about 90% of my ammo from 1000 yards.
 
XTR,

You are missing my point. I am not out to get tacti-cool. I shoot F-Class every Saturday here in Australia on a Fullbore range, with fullbore shooters laying on the ground 20 feet away.

I know who and where F-class comes from, that's not my problem.

My problem is that F-Class and especially F-open gets the red headed step-child treatment on our range and here in Australia in general.

To the point that F-standard shooters are not allowed to be voting members of the range that I belong to. To the extent that we pay the same dues, and are regulated to what's left over.

There are about 50 fullbore shooters and 40 F-class shooters that are active in our club, out of the 40 F-class shooters slightly mor ethan half shoot F-Standard and the rest shoot F-Open.

I was hoping f-Class was big enough in America to be a number unto itself, outside of realm of Fullbore.
 
Not knocking fullbore, but at least our club, and the clubs I have shot at in Australia are full of 70-90 year old men, who hate F-anything.
 
I did misunderstand your post.

We are coming into our own here in the US. We got invited to Camp Perry during the National Matches last Year. The Mid Range Nationals are at Camp Perry this yr. The F class nationals are still separate, and I've got mixed feelings on that. If our National Championship got combined with the HP Nationals at Camp Perry we'd shoot a lot fewer matches for the championship. At Raton we shoot two days of 3x15s and a team day and a day 2x20. At Camp Perry we shoot 3 or 4 15 shot matches total plus the Palma day.

Raton had over 200 shooters at the Nationals last yr, and it will be bigger this yr, esp with the worlds starting the day after the nationals.

In 2005 or so the Nationals were held at Oak Ridge, we've only got 25 firing points. It's rapidly out growing all but the largest ranges in the US.

I think we are in fine shape. There will always be those who don't like different to what's been done in the past. I try to ignore them these days.
 
GUNENTHUSIAST said:
Thanks for all the replies guys! Well it's unfortunate, and maybe a little silly, but I'm just thrilled to finally be able to come shoot the National Matches with the rifles I own. I have shot several 50 bmg matches there a few years back but that was a small club event. I only live a couple hours away. Is it ok to just leave the exposed threads on my barrel when the brake/suppressor is taken off?
Click to expand...
That's what I did last year at Camp Perry. I unscrewed the brake and left the threads exposed. My little 24" barrel, shooting 175s, was definitely outgunned. However, I did OK. It was fun and I learned a lot. I got a thread protector in case I decide to shoot any F-T/R this year.
 
My buddy and I plan to shoot our first f-class at the national matches at Camp Perry this summer.
Click to expand...

Please do yourself and everybody else a *HUGE* favor and make every possible effort to shoot at least one match before you go to Camp Perry. A large Registered match where people have the opportunity to set national records is not the appropriate venue (in my opinion) for your first match and the inevitable 'learning curve' associated with it.
 
Definitely get a match or a few before going to a venue like camp perry. Make sure you are under 22 pounds, you have a load for 800-1000 yards and enough loaded for sighters and record shots. Learn the scoring, know how to provide fast service when in the pits, etc.
 
As the LR match director at Bayou I am at once thrilled and distraught with having new shooters show up. Thrilled because it's good for the club and the sport in general to get new participants, and distraught because I now have to worry about squadding that person properly so that he or she can get instruction and support in the pits, as well as observing the line commands and getting on target. When I hear "I have a 100 yard zero, how much do I come up?", I get a little anxious.

When I prepare the squadding I try to make sure the new shooter will not be pulling for someone who is capable of winning the match or setting new records, but I also want that shooter to be flanked by veteran shooters who will help if needed. I also don't want to have the new shooter not be able to get on target or drifting on neighboring targets and create a disturbance for other shooters. Sometimes I inflict the new shooters on my target.

Mid-range is not as critical for come-ups and staying on targets, but pit service experience is critical. I still remember the time when a new shooter who had pulled my target asked for clarification on scoring after the match was over. It turns out the new shooter misunderstood the concept of breaking the scoring line and was giving the lower value if the shot touched the line, irrespective of where it landed. Ouch. Live and learn.
 
milanuk said:
Please do yourself and everybody else a *HUGE* favor and make every possible effort to shoot at least one match before you go to Camp Perry. A large Registered match where people have the opportunity to set national records is not the appropriate venue (in my opinion) for your first match and the inevitable 'learning curve' associated with it.
Click to expand...

+1 ^ Definitely get a match or a few in before going to a shoot like Camp Perry, your inexperience could cost another shooter dearly, ie by you shooting the wrong target, which is easily done at 1k
 
I have done plenty of FCSA bench rest type matches and pits were utilized in all of these. While I am new to f class I am not new to 1000 yard br type matches with pulled targets. I'm not worried about that aspect of it at all. I just don't want to show up with a rifle or equipment that is not eligible.
 
You pull and mark every shot in 50 cal matches, with sub-10 second service per shot? You normally score every shot for the shooter? You're familiar with NRA scoring procedures, where the scoring disc goes, how to score a miss, target repair when the shooter hits the spotter or how to handle a challenge or a call for a re-disc? I'll admit I have exactly zero experience with FCSA events... but I thought 'benchrest' (with the exception of certain short-range events that are score-only) shot either group only, or group and score at the same time... which is very much *not* the same venue we are talking about here even if you technically still use 'pits'.

For some of this you can probably count on more experienced shooters or the pit officer to herd you in the right direction... but its better to get at least one match under your belt. Given the number of matches occurring all around the country, every weekend of the year... there is absolutely no good reason to show up at Perry without having shot at least one before hand.
 
Last edited:
QuietShootr said:
Yeah, that sucks. No cans, no feeding from a magazine (because that would give you an unfair advantage, don't you know??), but it's perfectly kosher to have a 36" barrel and load your .308s out so far a stiff wind would knock them out of the case neck.

Don't give yourself a headache arguing. Get a muzzle nut made, and shoot according to their stupid rules. At least you'll get some trigger time at long range.
Click to expand...

Been having an arguement with myself for a couple of days now, over the above quote. Post, don't Post, leave it alone as it is just a stupid qoute by someone who doesn't have a clue about F-Class. So I guess in the end I lost the arguement.

QuietShootr, Yea there is an advantage shooting F-Class from a magazine. Educate your self and you will see were the advantage would lay. Also what would be wrong with a 36" barrel? I have never seen one on a F-Class rifle but why not? As to seating the bullets out, you see we get to do that, if we want, as we don't have that stupid magazine limiting our OAL. The rules may or may not be stupid, but you don't shoot the game so what difference does it make to you? I won't even go into the Tactical Matches and there rules. I don't shoot that sport so I don't get a say...

Roland
 
GUNENTHUSIAST said:
I have done plenty of FCSA bench rest type matches and pits were utilized in all of these. While I am new to f class I am not new to 1000 yard br type matches with pulled targets. I'm not worried about that aspect of it at all. I just don't want to show up with a rifle or equipment that is not eligible.
Click to expand...

Gunenthusiast, Long Range Benchrest do use pits, just not the way F-Class use the pits. Listen to Monte and get some experiance at a F-Class shoot, before attending a big match were "YOUR" pit service could be the difference in someone else winning or losing, and that can easily be the case. There is a lot to learn in pulling an F-Class match. You will pull the target for every shot, not 10 shots but every shot, you will need to identify your shooters shot so that you won't pull a target out from underneath your shooter. It has to be scored and the scoring disc installed in the "RIGHT" spot, by you the puller, a paster installed on top of the previous shot and the target disc put into the shooters current bullet hole. You will need to do all of this and return the target for the next shot in right around 10 seconds. If you are a quick learner you can learn to do this in one or two matches, we all had to learn this at some point, it's just best not to learn how during a big match.

Roland
 
Last edited:
FWIW, I shot F-T/R at Camp Perry last year. It has been my first and only F Class match so far. It's not the same as shooting a steel match with various targets, but it is trigger time. Also, I was paired with a handicapped shooter, so I did pit work alone for the most part. That said, I was able to get the target down, marked, scored and pasted in 5-10 secs by myself. It helped to have good people to explain the process and guide me through it. That said, I have to agree it would have been a good idea to shoot an F Class match prior to going to Camp Perry. I'll probably shoot a few F Class matches at Peacemaker this summer to get the trigger time and I may sign up for Camp Perry again.
 
milanuk said:
Please do yourself and everybody else a *HUGE* favor and make every possible effort to shoot at least one match before you go to Camp Perry. A large Registered match where people have the opportunity to set national records is not the appropriate venue (in my opinion) for your first match and the inevitable 'learning curve' associated with it.
Click to expand...

I just shot the practice at Butner today. This was my first time shooting past 300 yards, and I had a ball!
I agree with what these guys are telling you. Camp Perry is not the place to get broken in. Sure the folks will be nice and helpful, but you'll be slow and that's not fair to the rest of the guys that came to play serious(def not the place to learn to work the pits). I was a little nervous walking into the practice session, had no idea how to pull and score targets (Bryan Litz's dad was the guy that actually showed me how to score and pull targets. super nice guy!) , and I was thankful it was not the actual match.

Go out, shoot some matches, get experience, and have some fun, but please do not show up at Port Clinton with no match experience. It will probably kinda suck...
 
Well the pulling you describe sounds exactly like the pulling we do in FCSA. Pull and mark every shot with a small, large, or green disc in a matter of seconds. And score the target for group and score. Am I wrong?
 
GUNENTHUSIAST said:
Well the pulling you describe sounds exactly like the pulling we do in FCSA. Pull and mark every shot with a small, large, or green disc in a matter of seconds. And score the target for group and score. Am I wrong?
Click to expand...

Yes, you are wrong. Group doesn't matter in F class. Mark the location, mark the score and run the target back up. Ideally you want to keep it to about 7 seconds or so from the time the bullet hits the paper till that target goes back up. At 15 seconds the guy on the line is in the scope waiting for the target and quietly thinking to himself that you are slow while he watches his conditions change, at 20 seconds the scorer is thinking "oh s#!+, this sloth is pulling for me next match".

Camp Perry also has no backstop, you have to look up and see the hit on the target. I will say that at Camp Perry last yr I had the best pit service I've ever seen, but of the 4 people squadded on my target one was a past National Champion and one was going to go on and win the 2012 National Championship at Raton.

You should seriously find a match to shoot before you get to Perry. Having some idea is going to make the experience much better for you.
 
Camp Perry is the exception to the rule about impact areas... generally looking up at the target is considered a Bad Idea for various reasons.

The videos below show what we have been talking about... with the caveat that they show the 600yd iron-sight target and the 'old' scoring system. That and that shooter he is pulling for is shooting sloooooow... ;) He does cover a lot of good points, but its still not an excuse for not going to a match and actually *doing* it before Perry. The latter half of vid 2 and then vid 3 in particular are the portions relevant to this conversation.

Target Pulling (Working in the Pits) - Pt 1 of 3

Target Pulling (Working in the Pits) - Pt 2 of 3

Target Pulling (Working in the Pits) - Pt 3 of 3

Also... the other half of your 'duties' when not shooting is scoring other competitors on the firing line. Recognizing the shot values on the target face, realizing when the spotter and the value disc do not agree, and keeping track of the number of shots fired are all part and parcel of this activity. If you are shooting a stage where the shooter has unlimited sighters and has to *tell* you when they are going for record score, you need to be paying attention. One of the more frustrating things that can happen is to get about 10 shots into your string (after 3-5 sighters) and find out that your scorer ran out of blocks to write down all the 'sighters' you've been taking and there is no record of your string of 10s and Xs. About the only *more* infuriating thing is when you get all done with a great string, and start to put your gun away and your scorer suddenly blurts out "You still have two shots left" because somewhere along the way they got caught napping, were watching someone else's target, or got distracted by a friggin' butterfly. While this can happen with anybody, its most common with newer shooters, and mostly with people scoring their first match or two. The mental upset that this causes is considerable... plus the time delay involved usually means that the shooter will almost assuredly drop points when they set back up and fire those 'missing' shots.

Another way of looking at the matter is what when you are scoring and pulling... you are effectively a match official in a sense, and as such have responsibilities to the shooter to know what you're doing and do it right. It isn't just about *you*... it's about showing some courtesy and respect for your fellow shooters.

At this point, I gather you're pretty much bound and determined to *not* shoot a match or two prior to Camp Perry just out of sheer stubbornness (not like you can't find the time between now and then), so there's not much point in taking this any further.
 
Last edited:
I just get tired of the same shit that the gentleman above referred to. Plus I get tired of the mouth from the dudes with a 30" barrel shooting 4" long .308s with 208gr bullets thinking he whipped my ass at 1000 because he beat me by 6 points when I'm shooting a 24" barrel and magazine-length 178s.

And you can ease off the "you don't have a clue about F-class" shit. I shoot it all the time. In fact I won a mid-range match a couple of weeks ago, and I'm going to do it again this weekend.

TunTav0321 said:
Been having an arguement with myself for a couple of days now, over the above quote. Post, don't Post, leave it alone as it is just a stupid qoute by someone who doesn't have a clue about F-Class. So I guess in the end I lost the arguement.

QuietShootr, Yea there is an advantage shooting F-Class from a magazine. Educate your self and you will see were the advantage would lay. Also what would be wrong with a 36" barrel? I have never seen one on a F-Class rifle but why not? As to seating the bullets out, you see we get to do that, if we want, as we don't have that stupid magazine limiting our OAL. The rules may or may not be stupid, but you don't shoot the game so what difference does it make to you? I won't even go into the Tactical Matches and there rules. I don't shoot that sport so I don't get a say...

Roland
Click to expand...
 
Pretty sure that with a 4" OAL you wouldn't have any bearing surface left in the neck with a 208... maybe not even with a 230 (maybe). ;)

If you're happy with your scores, whether you're winning or not... more power to ya. I've always maintained that one should compete against one's self first, foremost and always - if you do that, the 'winning' bit will generally take care of itself ;)
 
QuietShootr said:
I just get tired of the same shit that the gentleman above referred to. Plus I get tired of the mouth from the dudes with a 30" barrel shooting 4" long .308s with 208gr bullets thinking he whipped my ass at 1000 because he beat me by 6 points when I'm shooting a 24" barrel and magazine-length 178s.

And you can ease off the "you don't have a clue about F-class" shit. I shoot it all the time. In fact I won a mid-range match a couple of weeks ago, and I'm going to do it again this weekend.
Click to expand...

QuitetShootr, you may not like some or all of the rules of F class, but they are the rules. F class shooting is a division of NRA High Power, so with regard to the structure of the matches it uses most of the same basic rules as the other HP disciplines. The exceptions being optics and rests. If you competed in a service rifle match you'd find that there too we single feed into our ARs, with the exception of two stages of rapid fire with a required reload, and there most competitors have two loads, one bullet that is mag length and another that is seated long, often with a heavier bullet, for the single feed prone shooting at 600 yards.

I will agree you are playing with a handicap shooting mag length rounds from a short barrel. I used a 24" barrel the first yr that I shot F class. It comes to a decision as to whether you want to participate or compete. When you make the conscious decision to compete then you start to set up your equipment to maximize the potential within the regulations. In any case the objective is to have fun. If it quits being fun something needs to change.
 
That's my point. I don't want to build a dedicated match gun, because TO ME it's useless. I'm shooting against myself and anyone with a comparable weapon, as far as I'm concerned, and I'm out there to get trigger time at long range and tweak my wind-reading abilities. I get to shoot 600-1000 or more at least once a month, and that's a lot more data than a guy has who shoots 100-300 every couple of months and spends the rest of his time on the Internet.

I don't expect to win against a match rifle, but when I do it makes victory that much sweeter :-D And I am having fun.

XTR said:
QuitetShootr, you may not like some or all of the rules of F class, but they are the rules. F class shooting is a division of NRA High Power, so with regard to the structure of the matches it uses most of the same basic rules as the other HP disciplines. The exceptions being optics and rests. If you competed in a service rifle match you'd find that there too we single feed into our ARs, with the exception of two stages of rapid fire with a required reload, and there most competitors have two loads, one bullet that is mag length and another that is seated long, often with a heavier bullet, for the single feed prone shooting at 600 yards.

I will agree you are playing with a handicap shooting mag length rounds from a short barrel. I used a 24" barrel the first yr that I shot F class. It comes to a decision as to whether you want to participate or compete. When you make the conscious decision to compete then you start to set up your equipment to maximize the potential within the regulations. In any case the objective is to have fun. If it quits being fun something needs to change.
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

CybrSlydr
Cheyenne Precision Rifle Hoedown - my first competition!
Replies
14
Views
254
JMGlasgow
JMGlasgow
D
F-Class Instruction.
Replies
4
Views
244
DocRDS
D
A5scott
F T/R Competition Stock for Kelly's F Class Panda
Replies
10
Views
593
A5scott
A5scott
R
My First PRS Match
Replies
112
Views
3K
AJMag
A
T
My First PRS Match: I Screwed Up!
Replies
35
Views
2K
Rodney65
R
Top Bottom
Back