I'm planning on purchasing a S&B 5-25x56 in near future and I'm thinking about mounting options for this to be put on my TRG-22 with an ATRS 25 MOA rail. Which would be better, a Larue or Badger, and which mount?
Rifle Scopes Larue vs Badger
- Thread starter Bloodstriker
- Start date
For rings?
Most here will say seekins or vortex (made by seekins). Badgers a good, as is about 5 other companies. Just pick one and roll with it.
Most here will say seekins or vortex (made by seekins). Badgers a good, as is about 5 other companies. Just pick one and roll with it.
I'm a huge fan of Larue. Great products and customer service, not to mention the guarantee.
Which larue rings?
You don't want Larue rings. They offer nothing that seekins doesn't do for better and cheaper.
They make decent mounts, not precision rifle rings. Now if you want youe extra $50 to buy some dillo dust and bumper stickers, then by all means..... go larue
They make decent mounts, not precision rifle rings. Now if you want youe extra $50 to buy some dillo dust and bumper stickers, then by all means..... go larue
Mmmm dillo dust. I wasn't aware that Larue didn't make good precision rifle rings, then again I've never looked for a set. I have a Larue SPR mount and like it a lot.
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Good Precision rings and QD are mutualy exclusive. Couple that with larues shitty attachment design (by modern standards) and that is why you don't see many people running them who know what their doing.
Don't get me wrong, I own plenty of larue shit, including a LT271 that came in the mail yesterday, but for optics, there are much better choices.
Thanks for the pointers. As you can probably tell, I'm pretty new to rifles and appreciate info from experienced users. Thanks again.
What do you mean by this "Couple that with larues shitty attachment design (by modern standards)"? Just curious because I'm happy with the way my Larue attaches.
So, I guess, Seekins it is. Now I'm trying to figure out the sizes. Using the formula posted on the sticky in this forum, I came up with the following (assuming that the ring sizes stated on the Seekins website is measuring the height to the center of the ring):
1.00" ring = 1.225mm or 0.0482283" clearance
1.25" ring = 7.575mm or 0.29822835" clearance
However, since I have a 25 MOA rail, there should be a bit less clearance. I'm guessing the 1.25" would be the best fit?
1.00" ring = 1.225mm or 0.0482283" clearance
1.25" ring = 7.575mm or 0.29822835" clearance
However, since I have a 25 MOA rail, there should be a bit less clearance. I'm guessing the 1.25" would be the best fit?
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I like LaRue for my AR mounts and I had one for my Sig DMR 556, which actually worked great for many years without complaints. When I sold it, I got almost what I paid for it even after years of service.
Have Badger on all of my rigs. Never a problem, and Marty is the man.
I have a Larue PSR mount on my POF and i love it! it is super solid and a great design as always Larues customer service was top notch and i like the stance larue has taken lately with all the craziness +1 larue
Check out APA's or Griffin Armaments,
Standards have always been Seekins or Badger. TPS or ADM or ARC or Nightforce or USO or Bobro or ....
Out of your post - Badger
Standards have always been Seekins or Badger. TPS or ADM or ARC or Nightforce or USO or Bobro or ....
Out of your post - Badger
Its a poor design compared to modern ones like bobro. It requires adjustment, it does not have much bearing surface, it can gouge your rails and QD does not equal RTZ. You are always going to have some POI shift even if its 1/2moa.
Now wait for all these people to come in here and claim "ive owned larue for years and never had a problem", or "They are great I use one all the time". Don't listen to them.
Many here like myself have owned ALL of the QD mount companies and many of the non QD ones.
Someone who shoots at dirt, never takes it off their rifle, does not run their guns hard or has nothing to compare it to can't exactly give an objective comparison. They have nothing to compare it to.
All of the major mounts with maybe the exception of ARMS are "solid". Whats your POI shift when you take of the mount and put it back on? I have no idea what Bobro's customer service is, as I have never even heard of on failing. I did see a bent Larue QD riser on here the other day however. Granted their shit is very well made and most people don't drive tent stakes with their mount. Larue makes a good product, but His design is just outdated compared to others.
I have 1.00" Badger rings mounting S&B PMII's on a Rem 5R and GAP Crusader. Both are on 20 MOA bases and work fine with enough clearance for BC caps.
OFG
When you refer to always having some POI shift do you mean once you have unmounted and then remounted or even without unmounting? Thank you for your responses.
Actually, the rail is 25MOA, not 20MOA as stated in the post. I just made an edit. Does that make any difference?
Removal or reattachment. That is why anyone who is serious about wringing every bit of accuracy out of their system, is running a non qd mount or rings. Depending on your application, the poi shift may be acceptable as a tradeoff for switching out optics and accsesories.
I just buy a different rifle for each job and leave it.
Yeah, about 5 MOA
I have an LT158-34 QD on my NF ATACR and I am happy with it.
I use Larue's with all my AR Type Rifles and swap around a lot, I have never had a problem.
Long range I have always used Mark 4 rings
Informative thread! For bolt guns I use Talley Tactical rings. For ARs I use LaRue QDs, as I also like to switch things around.
This is a good piece of advice that I wasn't aware of, thank you.
The additional 5 MOA will reduce the clearance by about .011". Not enough to make much of a difference. I'd still go with the 1.00" high rings unless the TRG rail is extremely low. Maybe someone who owns one will weigh in.
OFG
i think i have to point out at this point that good rings and the ability to detach and then mount again without a change in zero is not mutually exclusive. take the AI mount for example. you can take it off and put it right back on and shoot into the same group. And to beat all it is made of aluminum. Larue can do the exact same thing, except it does it faster.
If you were to take any rings off and put them back on and shoot at 600+ yards I would think there would be some change, yes. but anyone who would do that is wasting ammo. but to say a product like larue's doesn't work is not the right thing to do. it may not be your choice but that doesn't make it sub-par to your choice either.
If you were to take any rings off and put them back on and shoot at 600+ yards I would think there would be some change, yes. but anyone who would do that is wasting ammo. but to say a product like larue's doesn't work is not the right thing to do. it may not be your choice but that doesn't make it sub-par to your choice either.
Hell I have even taken my scope out of my AI rings, readjusted the scope in the rings, tightened everything down to a different tightness and then put it back on my rifle. i was only .1 mil off vertically high and .1 mil off horizontally right.
I wound up going with a NEAR Alphamount.
First of all. You are wrong. Anytime you remove a mount an put it back on, your going to have a POI shift. There are many factors that determine how much the shift is, but its still there, and measurable.
Your post reeks of ignorance and vague statements. I am not even going to begin to dissect it.
And which AI mount have you tried? please fill me in on your experience with a AW and an AI mount dovetail or pic?
Where is NOVA? if it is anywhere near south central KY then you can come to a meet up at park mammoth on april 13th and i will show you first hand how it is repeatable. i can take the scope off and put it right back in and it will still put shots in the same group. there may be a POI shift but it is minimal that you wont be able to tell it or would it make a difference for practical proposes. Call AI and ask them if it is possible with there gear.
ignorance is interesting.
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For my hensoldt 6-24x56 i use the badger 1 piece mount. This thing is nice! I will def use it on other guns. Looks a little like the nightforce mount, which i liked cause it was low profile. Also I didnt need to. modify the base of the mount like you would on a accuracy internation one piece for larger scopes... I do use larue mounts for all of my gas guns though..
Would worry more about your scope mount/base than rings.
Had 3 or 4 sets of Badger and sold them all. TPS tsr replaced them. Held onto an older set of 30mm Leupold Mk4 steel that are also superb. TPS for tactical rings are superb.
Warne Permanent maximas if you won't be removing the scope often. None of the lever release rings are worth a damn but the Leupold QR system. Can shim the QR base and then you got something Very Worthwhile.
Best scope base I've ever owned is Near Mfg. He also makes rings. Leupold mk4 is the original "standard", then there was Badger Ord. Seekins arrived about 2005/6 and does a fine job, but not an original or pioneer in the tactical scopemounting field.
Had 3 or 4 sets of Badger and sold them all. TPS tsr replaced them. Held onto an older set of 30mm Leupold Mk4 steel that are also superb. TPS for tactical rings are superb.
Warne Permanent maximas if you won't be removing the scope often. None of the lever release rings are worth a damn but the Leupold QR system. Can shim the QR base and then you got something Very Worthwhile.
Best scope base I've ever owned is Near Mfg. He also makes rings. Leupold mk4 is the original "standard", then there was Badger Ord. Seekins arrived about 2005/6 and does a fine job, but not an original or pioneer in the tactical scopemounting field.
+1 I wouldn't use a QD mount on a long range rifle but I would and do for my AR that I shoot routinely at my 35 yard range. I take the mount on and off with my Aimpoint attached all the time and I get no POI shift at that distance. For what it's intended for, I think LaRue is a decent mount. But for my precision rifles, I mount my optics and just leave them on unless I have to take them off. People love to hate LaRue and everyone has their opinions.
If you want QD for serious precision work, there are only two... GDI and Bobro.
If you don't shoot past 200 yards, Larue or ADM will serve you just fine and return close enough to zero. If you're not running a match rifle with match ammo, you probably won't ever notice a shift in zero.
If you don't need QD, Seekins, Aadland, Spuhr, Nightforce, Badger, etc.. will all serve you fine.
Given that you are running an S&B 5-25... and the idea of a cheap mount went out the window, get the best for your needs.
If you don't shoot past 200 yards, Larue or ADM will serve you just fine and return close enough to zero. If you're not running a match rifle with match ammo, you probably won't ever notice a shift in zero.
If you don't need QD, Seekins, Aadland, Spuhr, Nightforce, Badger, etc.. will all serve you fine.
Given that you are running an S&B 5-25... and the idea of a cheap mount went out the window, get the best for your needs.
Ooops didn't see this before I responded. I've heard great things about NEAR. Nice choice.
Nightforce
Badger
Seekins
For QD setups
GDI
ADM
Mike @ CST
Badger
Seekins
For QD setups
GDI
ADM
Mike @ CST
I don't have the experience that others on this forum have, nor have I used any mounts other than LaRue. But having LaRue mounts on three ARs (two with Aimpoints and one with a NF 2.5-10x32) all three have been taken off multiple times and placed back on the gun and none of them displayed an POI shift...
I also dropped my SPR with the NF 2.5-10 on the floor with the scope making contact with the floor first and there was no POI shift. I guess that's a testament to the scope more than the mount, but still..
I also dropped my SPR with the NF 2.5-10 on the floor with the scope making contact with the floor first and there was no POI shift. I guess that's a testament to the scope more than the mount, but still..
Ditch the rail idea and get a direct mount SPUHR with cant, you can run a cosine indicator off it, internal leveler and now a mirage strap interface for that long barrel. You can even run an MRDS off it. It's worth the extra cabbage.
And that is because Mark Larue is king o' the cocksuckers. His rifles are accurate but his QD mounts are SCHEISSE.
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