Gunslick foam cleaner leading to bad accuracy

[timelinex]

I have been using Gunslick foaming cleaner for a while now. In my 308 I usually use it every 300-400 rounds and it keeps my rifle at dependable half minute rifle. I use to use wipeout but the gunslick stuff comes with a handy straw and I read they are equally effective. I have also always read that they work just as good , if not better than standard bore cleaners. The performance in my other rifles has never made me doubt this.

In my 338 savage 110ba I have been using this to clean it for the last 300 rounds (out of its 400 rounds life so far). I have been cleaning it every 60 rounds or so and the last 3 times have just been really bad days. I usually shoot at 1550 yards,1760 and 1950. I jut couldn't figure out what was wrong. My second to last time I went out, I could only land one hit out of like 6 shots at a mile, and when we looked at the hit it was a keyhole! The last time I went I couldn't even hit the mile and at 1550, my 5 round group was a whole 36 inches!!

I thought that maybe its just my luck and something happened to my barrel. Its not supposed wear out in 400 rounds, but its a factory savage.. They aren't exactly known for their great quality control. My friend john asked me what I do to clean it, and he recommended using butch's bore shine instead.

I told him that everything I have read, the foaming cleaners do a great job at cleaning, but I had nothing to lose. So I used the gunslick foamer as usual. Then after that, I used butches bore shine with patches and some serious brush scrubbing. WOW. it took me about 20-30 patches AFTER cleaning with the foamer to get the barrel fully cleaned.

I just went out this morning and my rifles back in the game. Missed my cold bore shot and landed the next 11 shots in a row. My 5 round group had a verticle of 1/2 moa, and just in general, all my shots had the consistent vertical spread I was used to.

Moral of the story...... The foaming cleaners might not be strong enough for the combination of a big bore and dirty powder like retumbo.

 

[paul2atlo8]

Thanks for the heads up, was doing the same cleaning as you. Will now use butches and brushing every time accuracy falls off.

 

[steve123]

Sounds like you might have had a carbon ring right in front of the chamber.

I've been using TM carbon solution, followed by Boretech copper cleaner, a few patches of JB while paying special attention to the throat, then a few patches of gun oil and dry patches. Maybe 20 patches total.

 

[jasent]

I use the gun slick bore foam also. Tho I've noticed I some times have to do it twice. I normally let it soak over night and that often getts it done in one application but if I'm inpatient it often takes 2 times. Sofar its been the best I've found. A friend uses wipe out and he loves that.but I cleaned my gun with his wipe out. Then brought it home and just to check I soaked it with my gunslick bore foam. Pulled more copper out! Ill have to try it with what you mentioned but sofar I like the gunslick.
300wm,re22,berger195vld

 

[RussW1911]

I have been using Gunslick foaming cleaner for a while now. In my 308 I usually use it every 300-400 rounds and it keeps my rifle at dependable half minute rifle. I use to use wipeout but the gunslick stuff comes with a handy straw and I read they are equally effective. I have also always read that they work just as good , if not better than standard bore cleaners. The performance in my other rifles has never made me doubt this.

In my 338 savage 110ba I have been using this to clean it for the last 300 rounds (out of its 400 rounds life so far). I have been cleaning it every 60 rounds or so and the last 3 times have just been really bad days. I usually shoot at 1550 yards,1760 and 1950. I jut couldn't figure out what was wrong. My second to last time I went out, I could only land one hit out of like 6 shots at a mile, and when we looked at the hit it was a keyhole! The last time I went I couldn't even hit the mile and at 1550, my 5 round group was a whole 36 inches!!

I thought that maybe its just my luck and something happened to my barrel. Its not supposed wear out in 400 rounds, but its a factory savage.. They aren't exactly known for their great quality control. My friend john asked me what I do to clean it, and he recommended using butch's bore shine instead.

I told him that everything I have read, the foaming cleaners do a great job at cleaning, but I had nothing to lose. So I used the gunslick foamer as usual. Then after that, I used butches bore shine with patches and some serious brush scrubbing. WOW. it took me about 20-30 patches AFTER cleaning with the foamer to get the barrel fully cleaned.

I just went out this morning and my rifles back in the game. Missed my cold bore shot and landed the next 11 shots in a row. My 5 round group had a verticle of 1/2 moa, and just in general, all my shots had the consistent vertical spread I was used to.

Moral of the story...... The foaming cleaners might not be strong enough for the combination of a big bore and dirty powder like retumbo.

Take it for what it's worth......

If you are scrubbing your barrel with a brush. You're doing it wrong. More barrels have been ruined by cleaning than have ever been ruined by proper cleaning techniques. Think about how long bullets are in your barrel over the life of it. less time than one single pass with your brush.

Switch foams, get a better one. Use patches if you MUST. Keep brushes out of your bore! In my line of work I am afforded a huge opportunity to shoot more big bore rifle rounds than pretty much everyone I know. I have gotten better barrel life with sub 1/2 moa Accuracy than I care to bring up because of the use of the better cleaning practices. My demo .338 Lapua has seen north of 3000 rounds between 3 shooters and still shoots sub MOA at a mile. I shoot with guys who rebarrel at 2000-2500 if they are lucky. They clean with brushes and use their "bench rest" techniques while doing so.

Shooting has evolved, so has cleaning.......

 

[jfields]

I quit using wipeout and went back to Hoppe's on the 110BA because I could never get the jag with a patch down the barrel after the hour soak. It seemed to be really sticky. Those patches did come out a pretty blue color that I don't get with Hoppe's. Does using a nylon brush do the same damage that a bronze brush does?

-Shaky

 

[xdeano]

Last time I checked barrels are made of steel. So you won't think that using a nylon brush would do anything to a barrel besides the cleaning rod, which shouldn't be a problem unless you're using a steel hanger.

xdeano

 

[RussW1911]

I quit using wipeout and went back to Hoppe's on the 110BA because I could never get the jag with a patch down the barrel after the hour soak. It seemed to be really sticky. Those patches did come out a pretty blue color that I don't get with Hoppe's. Does using a nylon brush do the same damage that a bronze brush does?

-Shaky

Grit and grime gets embedded into the brush..... also could be called a lapping compound.

Quit cleaning your copper out. Just clean the powder fouling out.

 

[RussW1911]

Last time I checked barrels are made of steel. So you won't think that using a nylon brush would do anything to a barrel besides the cleaning rod, which shouldn't be a problem unless you're using a steel hanger.

xdeano

Even the best of cleaning rods flex, that flex is only stopped by the inside of your bore. Fancy coated rods get embedded with grit and grime.... see my above post. Same idea.

 

[xdeano]

Even the best of cleaning rods flex, that flex is only stopped by the inside of your bore. Fancy coated rods get embedded with grit and grime.... see my above post. Same idea.

Granted a cleaning rod is going to pick something up. I clean my rods each time before pushing them through the bore with alcohol which will eliminate most anything that'll cling on there unless it's so microscopic that it has no bearing on it. I'm using a carbon fiber rod. I honestly think if a guy gets dust in their barrel and runs a round down it, it won't be any more harm then what the cleaning rod is doing. That carbon is moving around in the barrel all over the place anyhow. I also use alcohol on my brushes etc. to get rid of carbon and grime.

Everyone has a different way of cleaning. RussW, I sent you a PM to see what your methods are, please enlighten the crowd as to what you use product wise and procedures to give the best cleaning. No two ways are the same. I'm willing to learn, as are many others....

xdeano

 

[RussW1911]

Granted a cleaning rod is going to pick something up. I clean my rods each time before pushing them through the bore with alcohol which will eliminate most anything that'll cling on there unless it's so microscopic that it has no bearing on it. I'm using a carbon fiber rod. I honestly think if a guy gets dust in their barrel and runs a round down it, it won't be any more harm then what the cleaning rod is doing. That carbon is moving around in the barrel all over the place anyhow. I also use alcohol on my brushes etc. to get rid of carbon and grime.

Everyone has a different way of cleaning. RussW, I sent you a PM to see what your methods are, please enlighten the crowd as to what you use product wise and procedures to give the best cleaning. No two ways are the same. I'm willing to learn, as are many others....

xdeano

You're regimen is sound. The biggest problem is people not cleaning the equipment or dragging the jag back over the crown or pulling the equipment through the bore backwards.

A good foam, a good rod and patches w/ a bore guide. Dare I say a CLEAN bore snake. Yes, they are absolutely the best when used properly and kept clean. I used to hate bore snakes, but they are great.

Why do people insist on cleaning the copper out of their barrel? Unless you have bigger issues, your copper fouling stops once all the imperfections in the barrel are full.

These are my opinions and what I do. Of course people aren't going to agree with everyone, but I used to be extremely retentive of how my weapons were cleaned, I have since completely changed that thinking and truly believe its a more sound way of doing things. My rifles are run hard, used, but not abused. I don't blame a guy for babying his personal weapon.

 

[timelinex]

Russ,

Thank you for chiming in, and as others have said, its great to hear varying opinions.

I wanted to clear a couple things up though... By my post, I did not mean to say that I will start scrubbing down my rifle every 50 rounds. I'm as big of a believer as you, that copper should be left where it is. Every time a rifle is fully stripped of the copper, accuracy doesn't return until all those same pores are filled back with that same copper. I don't plan to make a habit of wasting fouler rounds. HOWEVER, in my case reality spoke louder than words. I tried tirelessly to figure out what was wrong with my rifle. It didn't get fixed until I gave it a good scrub down. This could have been an isolated incident, that like Steve suggested, was caused by a persistent carbon ring. Retumbo is notorious to being a dirty powder, at any given time I can look down my barrel and visually see carbon flakes in it from the last round. I will continue my minimal cleaning technique, but as soon as I start seeing signs of what happened last time, I won't be afraid to stick a nylon brush down the bore. Not because I think its a proven fact that that is what fixed my accuracy issues, I have no way of knowing for sure. Rather because its worked in the past, so its the best I have to go by.

Its a well passed around phrase that cleaning does more damage than good. I don't fully buy into it. Lets be honest here. If we all blindly abided by 'time proven and passed down wisdom', we would all still be holding our breath in the middle of our breathing cycle, instead of at the end of it like has been accepted now days. Looking through a bore scope to see damage in the bore, proves nothing more than damage was done, and not how. To be clear, we are talking about a steel that withstands 60k+ pounds of pressure, unforgiving temperatures and then a metal object going through it and scrubbing that same grime, this time accompanied by intense heat and pressure, that is claimed to damage the bore during cleaning. Any of that grime that will be lightly rubbed against the bore with a brush, has the same thing happen to it every time a bullet passes through.

Granted, I didn't take any classes specific to metallurgy during my engineering classes, but something isn't adding up with the claims. Also, just as most magnum rifles, my crown is not exposed to being nicked because of my brake that sits on top of it. Which btw is visually in perfect condition, even though it gets hit by these evil jags and brushes on the way in. I'm not saying that I don't believe that with enough persistence you can't damage the bore.

There's a reason why its generally the throat that is actually 'shot out' when it comes time to replace a barrel. Chop and re-throat the barrel and its a shooter again. Pressure and heat prime the steel to be vulnerable, not the mechanical passing of the bullet or brush for that matter. Not knowing enough about metallurgy to prove otherwise, I would be more worried about the chemicals used to clean the barrel than the mechanical aspect of things. I can sit there all year trying to remove some material from stainless steel with a rag and 409. Give me some rubbing compound and a rotary, and now we are getting somewhere.

I'm not doubting your knowledge or experience. I can truly believe that with your techniques you have experienced what you claim. However, as you know, there are a multitude of variables that go into the end result of a barrel being shot out. I wonder just how many rounds it would take to shoot out a barrel that has only seen subsonic light loads. Take away the pressure and heat, and damage should be decreased substantially.

Let me know what your thoughts are on my analysis. I am always open to challenging my views and learning something new.

 

[Papa Zero Three]

Give FireClean a try, you won't need to use foam, bore shine or any other product. Carbon and fouling will wipe right off.

 

[xdeano]

P03,
I use a lot of Ballistol and it works very well. After watching some of the reviews, i might have to give it a try. thanks
deano

 

[steve123]

I think each rifle requires a different amount of cleaning or adjustment of regimen.

For instance with rimfires, just a quick touch up once in a while with mild cleaners and patches.

Then there's my 17 Remington (factory barrel, unknown round count) which copper fouls horribly with a major decrease in accuracy at 60 rounds or so. The borescope doesn't fit in there but I can feel fire cracking about 3"s down the tube. No choice but to get aggressive with brushes and harsh cleaners until I get a new barrel on it.

Most of my custom rifles with high quality barrels clean right up with little effort. I rarely put a brush through them but have at times. My customs are hot chamberings and I've found my self cleaning them every 100 to 150 rounds because they don't shoot as well if I don't. I run some JB about every 3-4 cleanings as I feel it maintains the throat.

On the other hand I had a custom rifle with a new barrel that copper fouled really bad, it always shot well but I'd clean every 50 rounds anyway just because I wanted to stay on top of the problem.

A friends 6.5 Creed quit shooting tight with 1800 rounds through it, his normal regimen was to clean every 200-300 rounds. He decided to clean the barrel up 100% to see what happened. For most of a week he soaked over night using foam cleaner, ran a brush, then a few patches and repeated till nothing came out. Accuracy was restored and it still shoots well with 2400 through it.

Typically I don't clean every bit of copper out of the barrel. Right or wrong I stop when the patch starts to get light blue and call it good, the method seems to be working. When I do use a brush I've made it a practice to take the brush off before I pull the rod back through the barrel and only run patches from the breach, never back against the crown.

 

[Ring]

i use foam... but after the 30min soak, i run a brush down it 2 or 3 times,... then patch...