Is it worth upgrading yet- and in what way?

[CharlieTN]

Looking for some advice from those more seasoned and knowledgeable than me.

I'm shooting a Rem 700 SPS varmint in B&C M40 stock. Using my handloads I average from .5 to .7 MOA at 200 pretty consistently. I'm currently using RCBS basic die set, Winchester or Hornady brass, Hornady 168 BTHP, H4895 powder and CCI 200 primers.

I do realize that the factory barrel on the 700 is a limiting factor with it's long throat so until I can address that issue I'm wondering if I should look at upgrading my reloading dies. Currently I full length size. Should I go to neck size only and if so is it worth the cost of going to the bushing dies? Do I need to look into a competition seater die (micrometer adjustable) or given the limitations of my mostly factory rifle would the benefits even be noticeable? Or am I better served to stay with the setup I have and put the money into components and trigger time?

I appreciate everyone's help and input.

Charlie

 

[milo 2.0]

Just upgrading your equipment is no gaurantee that your load or gun will be more accurate. Try fine tuning your load, .5moa at 200sn't all that bad. Have you tried to group it at 5-600 yards? It may still hold that.
Last time I tried to shoot a group at 200, it was 1 1/2", but held to 2" at 1000 yards, so.

Personally, I wouldn't question my equipment used, until I rebarrel the rifle, maybe true the action. Then measure your group size and make a decision. Even though I have nothing but comp seaters, I really don't think by themselves they can load any more accurate ammo than a regular seating die.

A guy can get caught up in brands, gadget type shit that really isn't necessary.

 

[rrflyer]

You need consistency in ammo.

Until you get a chronograph, run-out gauge, and ways to measure case setback and bullet seating then there's no point in upgrading because you don't know what is/isn't working.


But by the sounds of it your ammo is good... I'd just shoot more.

 

[Victor N TN]

There is no better training tool than trigger time.

If you are shooting sub 1/2 minute groups, when they start to open up or look like it is a shotgun pattern instead of a group, it's time to start thinking about getting a new barrel. If you want to make more REPEATABLE handloads, then go ahead and get new high dollar equipment, IF YOU THINK IT WILL HELP. Some times the 6 inches between your ears is the worst to try to control on the range.

 

[flashhole]

rrflyer got it right. you don't know what is or isn't working w/o the proper tools. A runout gage is a very telling tool when refining technique at the reloading bench.

 

[Garvey]

Neck dies, no. That's a good way to stick your brass in the chamber after firing, keep FL sizing. FL bushing dies is what I went to and they are great. But with your barrel, you are doing all the good. I suspect the best way to get under your current 1/2 MOA rifle/ load combo is with a new cut rifled barrel Bartlein, Obermeyer, Krieger, ect.

Is it a .308? If so, you're probably a long way from that barrel being done. You have to decide is it worth the money and starting over working up a load on a new barrel.

 

[UrbanSi]

Neck dies, no. That's a good way to stick your brass in the chamber after firing, keep FL sizing. FL bushing dies is what I went to and they are great.

That's flatly a different preference as to fact, I neck size all my .308 brass until it needs to be annealed. I'll full length re-size only to bump the shoulders back.

Now many hunters will tell you not to bring neck sized brass out for the reason you have stated. In all my years of shooting tightly chambered rifles, I have never had a neck sized case stick. Only heard stories of this happening...

 

[korykhunter]

So many tools concentricity gauge, case neck gauge, calipers, micrometer, neck turning tool(goes well with bushing dies), chronograph, OAL tool, headspace gauge, trimmer and the list goes on. Not sure what you have, but there is no end. I like the bushing dies myself but if you go that route I would also turn necks to ensure everything is uniform. If you do turn necks for a factory rifle only take off the high spots.

 

[gvanhyning]

Neck dies, no. That's a good way to stick your brass in the chamber after firing, keep FL sizing. FL bushing dies is what I went to and they are great.

I can say, based on personal experience, that using only a FL die will significantly shorten the life of your brass. My recommendation is neck size until you feel resistance in the bolt, then full length size. I have never had a piece of brass stick in the chamber from not full length sizing, but I have had case head separations from too many full length sizings. A routine annealing will also help extend the life of your brass. Good luck and good shooting.

 

[CharlieTN]

Thanks for all of the responses.

I do have the Hornady Overall length gauge and the Bullet Comparator but honestly with the long factory throat of the Remington barrel, if I loaded the rounds to within .02 off the lands as they suggest, the bullets wouldn't be safely held in the case neck so for now I have laid that aside except using the comparator to measure overall length of my loaded ammo.

My rifle is a .308 so as I've read barrel life will be quite long especially given the limited amount of shooting I do. I will probably get the neck sizer from RCBS simply to extend my brass life since .308 brass is so scarce but won't worry about it from there. Trigger time seems to be my best bet overall until I'm ready to go the expense of trueing the action and putting on a better barrel.

Thanks so much for the responses. I'm still learning tons. Sometimes the choices get to be overwhelming and I'm do not want to chace after good groups by simply throwing money at the equipment.

Charlie

 

[Garvey]

Well guys, I've had a case stuck in the chamber after a fast shot string at a match. The rifle was hot, time was called on me, I tried to eject the live round and met heavy resistance. After beating the bolt handle back I got a case out and a bullet stuck in the lands. One piece cleaning rod got the bullet out. This was with a .308.

I've also seen dusty brass stick that wasn't FL sized. Yes annealing is very important! I have mine done after 3 firings. I had some .308 brass that made 8 loadings before I got out of the .308 business. I've got .22-250 and .260 brass with 5 and 6 loadings, full length sized every time. Call BS on me if you want, but what I'm doing is working on the range, on the hunt, and at the bench.

 

[fish30114]

If you take your time to figure out how to setup your dies to Partial Full Length Resize, you won't have case seperation issues prematurely. Finding the spot where your die only pushes the shoulder back a few thousandths is important across the board. I would also agree with finding out what kind of ammo you are making--meaning get a concentricity gauge. With that and a shoulder/headspace gage you will be on your way to building good ammo to fit YOUR rifle.

 

[Deadshot2]

Consistent ammo will help a factory barrel out immensely.

As for dies, the most useful die I've found is a Forster Shoulder Bump/Neck Size Bushing die. One die that's extremely versitile. Can be used with the body only to bump back the shoulders. Add a neck bushing and only work the neck the minimum amount to gain the proper neck tension. Don't want to neck turn, fine, just add the optional expander ball and make sure all the neck ID's are uniform again with minimum working of the brass.

A fire formed piece of brass will hold more powder, often yield greater speeds, and with lower pressures. F/L sizing with a factory chamber removes this benefit and leads to premature brass failure. Maybe no big deal for cheapie Winchester but more of an issue with Lapua, Norma, etc.

I have a Rem 5-R which has shot 100 yard groups as small as .191 with regular groups in the .250-.300 range. Last week's trip to the range I shot a .750" group @200 yards. The barrel has passed the 5K mark for rounds down range and I never could reach the lands and still have enough bullet in the case neck.

The "accuracy game" is all about removing variables. Cases that are properly prepped, rounds that are nice and straight/concentric when finished, and powder charges that match the case capacity/bullet weight/barrel harmonics, are all steps along the journey.

 

[X-fan]

Consistent accuracy is the key
Consistent accuracy at distance is the quest.

For instance place 5- 5 shot groups in side 1/2 inch at 100 yards and your rifle is a real shooter....your probably a fair shooter yourself!

Place 5-5 shot groups into 1/2 MOA at 300 yards is a significant accomplishment and is one that is difficult to repeat on demand....doable, but difficult.
Those that can do this have both extremely accurate rifles and can shoot very well.
I have never seen a factory Rem/Win/Savage rifle do this.