Rifle Scopes One scope multiple rifles?

[Rlbol]

I hope this hasn't not been asked a lot . I tried searching and came up with nothing.

So my question, I was watching the magpul long range videos the other day. The gentleman doing the video, Todd was his first name can't remember the last. Was talking about running a mil dot optic on different rifles as well as different calibers. It made since in the point of not having to rewrote the reticle. But there is so much more I would like to learn about this. I am far far from knowledgeable about optics.

So I know it would not work for a ballistic reticle. What reticles would this work for

Can the reticle and turrents by either MOA or mil/mil?

Does the zero make a difference as far as the distance and which mark on the reticle is set up as, say the 100 meter or yard zero?

I have a few sphure mounts and love them but I have not been able to locate any quick detach models. If they don't make them, what is the best quick detach mount?

I hope this is not to deep and thanks for all the help optics experts!

 

[jimmykm21]

I have the video also.
To me at least it sounds like a pain in the ass , depending on rifle and LOP eye relief might not be optimal.
POI will always change so you have to zero it out everytime.
Plus he sounded like he was trying to sell Larue mounts.
Maybe they gave him some free ones...lol

 

[Rlbol]

I could quit figure how poi as well as your ranging from the stand point of mil rate wouldn't change. Which is exactly what he said. He then went on to say depending on the magnification the dot at which you zeroed would equal the same distance not what about an ffp optic. Would they all remain the same?
It confused the hell out of me but if it works I sure would like to know more about it!!

 

[Graham]

It made since in the point of not having to rewrote the reticle

I saw the Magpul video and I have some idea of what you are talking about but I have no idea what you are asking. Is English your first language?

...And yes, the video had its financial backers.

 

[Papa Zero Three]

I run one optic on both of my 308s without issue. I use a USO LR17 with a Larue QD mount. If I remember that video correctly they passed one scope amongst 4 guys, on line, on a semi auto and bolt guns with one of them being a 338 and all 4 guys were able to hit steel as soon as they locked the QD levers down.

 

[Graham]

You don't need a Larue mount to run the same optic on more than one rifle, just unlock the two ring base screws.

 

[BigJimFish]

1) So I know it would not work for a ballistic reticle. What reticles would this work for

2) Can the reticle and turrents by either MOA or mil/mil?

3) Does the zero make a difference as far as the distance and which mark on the reticle is set up as, say the 100 meter or yard zero?

4) I have a few sphure mounts and love them but I have not been able to locate any quick detach models. If they don't make them, what is the best quick detach mount?

I hope this is not to deep and thanks for all the help optics experts!

1) Yup, ballistic reticles are pretty platform specific so unless you are switching between very similar rifles they are limited.

2) Yes.

3) I'm not sure what you are trying to say here. You have to rezero the optic when you go from one rifle to the next. There is no real way around this. You can record the difference in zeros between the rifles, mark the mounting slot on each rifle, and do the adjustment without actually firing rounds and depending on your mount you will be pretty close. This might save you some time but will also introduce the potential for mistakes. Either way, you will have to move the zero when you switch rifles though.

4) To my knowledge Sphur does not make quick release mounts. The best quick release product I have tried is Bobro. It lacks the add-on capability of a Sphur but I have found its return to zero flawless and it grips hard enough that it dosen't appear to move under recoil. Larue is ok but I have found for it to grip tight enough that the scope dosen't move during recoil it has to be wrench tightened so not so quick release. Maybe I just have wussy hands but its my mount and that is the situation I am in. I am unimpressed with ADM mounts. The design and quality of construction is inferior to Bobro and Larue. It also does not return to zero like a Bobro. LoneWolfUSMC has a great video on this. Lots of folks also seem to like the GDI mounts. I have not tested them myself at this point.

Lastly, I should mention that I do share scopes between my long range rifles. I have a Larue but the current plan is to switch it out for a Bobro at some point. Having to wrench crank to get it tight enough is a pain. I'll do the switch when I upgrade the scope as the current one is not in my long term plans. I have enough confidence in the Bobro to use it on a precision rifle and given the amount I swap optics around I think it is the best rout for me.

 

[Dogtown]

You could probably do it if you really felt compelled to. Those of us with SRS rifles and several conversion kits either reset the turrets between kits or just note the offset. For example, everything is zeroed around my .338LM and switching to the 16" .308WIN is 0.1mils right and 1 mil up. If you could verify that zero was repeatable between rifles, you could do the same thing...technically.

 

[Pappasniper]

Not to hijack, but this is my issue with one gun and three barrels. Its cool for the army, but for me..it one gun, one action and one scope.
However, I did look at that PSR and was like oh my my my my.

 

[Rlbol]

Thanks guys! I am sorry that it is more complex to explain.

Umm yes English is one of the languages I speak as well as my native tongue. Now as far as your reading ability, it amazes me that you were still so confused it compelled you to respond!

Once again after watching the video I just couldn't imagine how it can work. I spent the time to watch that part twice. Still can't understand it. Let me clarify the part that makes no sense. Being able to remove a scope from any caliber and switch it to another rifle and be on target with NOT rezeroing.

I do believe it could be the editing. I expected more from magpul. I think they would put a larger priority in content and less quality video.

 

[Papa Zero Three]

Think of it this way. If I take my M4 and get my iron sight BZO for it and know what it is, how is it I can pick up a different M4 and dial my same BZO into it's iron sights and be on target?

 

[sjb269]

I plan on consolidating optics and running a Bobro QD mount for the following reasons.
1. Cost, purchasing three high end optics with rings would mean I will have nearly $7,000.00 in optics in my safe at any one time depending on what type of shooting I am doing at the moment. I can only shoot one rifle at a time...right?
2. On my .22 trainer, I would like to run the exact same optic and turret as I run on my "when it counts" rifle. Duplicating my optics here would be cost prohibitive.
3. On my hunting rifle, I want to use the exact same scope and turret as on my "when it counts" rifle...I know, it would be heavier than a dedicated hunting scope but I am OK with that.
4. Reducing the number of permanently scoped rifles in my safe frees up space.
5. When I travel I can keep the scope with me at all times. When I get to where I am going, I always confirm zero anyways.
6. Losing or having a rifle damaged is more tolerable than adding a high end optic to that disaster.

 

[Rlbol]

I plan on consolidating optics and running a Bobro QD mount for the following reasons.
1. Cost, purchasing three high end optics with rings would mean I will have nearly $7,000.00 in optics in my safe at any one time depending on what type of shooting I am doing at the moment. I can only shoot one rifle at a time...right?
2. On my .22 trainer, I would like to run the exact same optic and turret as I run on my "when it counts" rifle. Duplicating my optics here would be cost prohibitive.
3. On my hunting rifle, I want to use the exact same scope and turret as on my "when it counts" rifle...I know, it would be heavier than a dedicated hunting scope but I am OK with that.
4. Reducing the number of permanently scoped rifles in my safe frees up space.
5. When I travel I can keep the scope with me at all times. When I get to where I am going, I always confirm zero anyways.
6. Losing or having a rifle damaged is more tolerable than adding a high end optic to that disaster.

That was my same thinking unfortunately I don't see that working out! If you do find a way oh the such please let me know.

 

[Lowlight]

In that video the monkey drill of moving one scope to another rifle was solely to cover up the fact the Larue mount loosened during the previous day filming and at the start of the next day, Costa remarked he needed to rezero his scope because the mount was loose. Rather than do that, they changed the subject by going into that stupid monkey drill. Similar when they added the STOMP to the Travis rifle they compounded the angle, instead of having a 20MOA cant they had a 40MOA one which is why it didn't zero and they had to make "the poor man's horus" as it was put. TH does work for Horus and Larue and is supported by them which is why Larue and Horus were heavily featured. When things didn't go exactly as planned it was best to talk around it or change the subject, then to actually address the true nature of the issue. There is a bit of creative editing happening, like pretending it is practical to shoot a 308 at 1 mile... sure 36 shots later they were able to drop one in, but you'll never get real story, just the creatively edited version of events to make it look cool guy. You can correct most problems on film with a liberal use of the editing software, after that, instead of having to explain why your scope mount came loose you sold guys on the need for a QD Mount, instead of a far superior fixed one.

Some rifles do better than others swapping scopes, but all will require some form of rezeroing process. So if you don't mind changing it over and over, have at it. The trouble comes in with scopes with zero stops that don't allow you to easily go in both directions.

Can you do it, sure, is it as simple as moving it over to the next rifle, not really. Doesn't matter the mount, you'll probably find it off to some degree, but if you aren't interested in the very best, almost anything will do.

 

[bm11]

I have done it before. I was sharing one scope between a TRG and an AW. The TRG had a 20 moa base and the AW had a USO 20 MOA dovetail to pic conversion. I was using Badger rings and carried a Borka torque wrench to the range with me. I recorded the adjustment needed, and it was 100% repeatable. Move the scope, torque, dial adjustment, center punch target, every single time. That said, its a pain in the ass and will make you buy another scope sooner rather than later.

 

[lobhob]

I'd do it myself and by just writing down the difference between zeros. I wouldn't and don't care if my zero is off within couple inches because I don't need it to be punching paper for groups.

 

[oldfatguy]

In theory swapping one scope between multiple rifles looks like one way to make the $$$$$ go further. However, as BM11 says, it is a pain in the ass.

OFG

 

[sulcop96]

Lowlight, thank you for the back story. I watched that video too, then gave it away. I have seen and read far worse but expected far more. As far as swapping around with QD mounts, when our SWAT team decided to add a long range precision marksman section "command" had that great idea. We have two MIL snipers on our team that attempted to say having eight rifles and four scops and swapping said scomes to and fro between the team was NOT the way to go. Needless to say a few months later we had four more NightForce NXS ordered. IMH and limited opinion one rifle one mount and one scope = consistency and I have heard somewhere that consistency = accuracy...

Sully

 

[sib1948]

Lowlight, thank you for the back story. I watched that video too, then gave it away. I have seen and read far worse but expected far more. As far as swapping around with QD mounts, when our SWAT team decided to add a long range precision marksman section "command" had that great idea. We have two MIL snipers on our team that attempted to say having eight rifles and four scops and swapping said scomes to and fro between the team was NOT the way to go. Needless to say a few months later we had four more NightForce NXS ordered. IMH and limited opinion one rifle one mount and one scope = consistency and I have heard somewhere that consistency = accuracy...

Sully

Sully's professional experience says it all! Listen and learn guys. I think many are just being stubborn. Wiil swap barrels on my new SRS when it arrives and appropriately adjust repeatable zero, but otherwise 1 rifle and 1 scope with much less problems. Oh yeah!!!

 

[Pinecone]

I was thinking, if you zeroed the scope on one rifle, then checked the rifle/scope with a laser bore sighter at a given range. And recorded the info. Then did the same on the second rifle.

Then you could install the scope, compare to the bore sighter and set the proper offset and be zerod.

Does this make sense? I can't see why it would not work.

Of course, if your setup is repeatable to the point of dialing in a given correction, this would be overkill.

 

[Papa Zero Three]

You can correct most problems on film with a liberal use of the editing software, after that, instead of having to explain why your scope mount came loose you sold guys on the need for a QD Mount, instead of a far superior fixed one.

Some rifles do better than others swapping scopes, but all will require some form of rezeroing process.

So Frank, aside from the mount coming loose part, are you saying that the footage of them swapping the scope from gun to gun and being able to hit the target is creatively edited and they didn't really score hits?

 

[Lowlight]

So Frank, aside from the mount coming loose part, are you saying that the footage of them swapping the scope from gun to gun and being able to hit the target is creatively edited and they didn't really score hits?

What is so special about hitting a target with a different scope ? They still held or adjusted on the targets to make the hit, they just used the splash of the dirt around the target to adjust by.

Are you honestly saying you never zeroed a rifle scope on a piece of steel at distance, cause that is all they did... this was not rocket science or anything nobody has never done before... Shoot, see the dirt splash, adjust, shoot again, hit...

Under what context would you advocate swapping your scope in the field... if you wanted to call it a field expedient zero that was maybe minute of man, okay, but the whole monkey drill was to cover up the fact the mount came loose. Nobody would willingly swap a working scope for no good reason. Nor would you want to zero a scope at 300 yards on steel... can you, sure, same way you zero at 100, or the same way a guy shoots at a rock laying in the dirt then moves to a paper target when he moves the strike closer to center. I have gotten off a plane overseas and used a 1000 inch range on paper which is a much better way to do it than steel at 300 yards.

Scopes move and adjust, that is how they work, if you can't hit something after shooting and adjusting you are doing it wrong.

Tell me the benefit you saw in that drill.... Papa Zero Three... by the way, how many shots did you see it take to hit 1 mile ?

 

[Graham]

Scopes move and adjust, that is how they work, if you can't hit something after shooting and adjusting you are doing it wrong.

Tell me the benefit you saw in that drill.... Papa Zero Three... by the way, how many shots did you see it take to hit 1 mile ?

The point of so much of those parts of the video appeared to be to impress novices with the instructor's knowledge of wizardry, hoping that they don't see the little man behind the curtain (or his benefactors).

 

[jonesy]

I don't see where the confusion is coming from. I run an American Defense Recon low profile QD mount on my 7mmRM and .260. I have it zeroed at 100 yards on my .260 and I know when I switch it to my 7mm, it will be zeroed 1.4 mils high. All I have to do is hold 1.4 mils above where my range card tells me to shoot.

I know my mount holds zero when switching on/off. I won't let someone tell me my setup doesn't work when I know that it does. I would suggest the setup to anyone looking to save money on optics for multiple rifles.

FWIW, the larue mounts are a bit cheaper in construction in my experience. Source: I own one

PS: you have to use some sort of standard marked reticle, like a mildot, G2DMR, Horus, etc. You should be using a reticle like this in the first place though. Ballistic reticles are not only rifle specific, they are also altitude and temperature specific.

 

[Gunfighting Inc]

I tried the one scope two rifle gig between my 308 and 338. Readjusting zero stop etc. was a PITA and wasted valuable range time and ammo. I bought another scope. Now I'm happy, and each rifle has a scope best suited for its mission insteady of a compromise for one or the other or both.

 

[jonesy]

I tried the one scope two rifle gig between my 308 and 338. Readjusting zero stop etc. was a PITA and wasted valuable range time and ammo. I bought another scope. Now I'm happy, and each rifle has a scope best suited for its mission insteady of a compromise for one or the other or both.

If you use a reticle that allows you to properly hold over, you won't have the zero stop adjustment problem. Just hold whatever your change is from rifle to rifle for every shot. Requires no alteration of your zero stop the way I do it. Others may not like it, I can understand that, but it works flawlessly for me.

 

[Papa Zero Three]

What is so special about hitting a target with a different scope ? They still held or adjusted on the targets to make the hit, they just used the splash of the dirt around the target to adjust by.

Are you honestly saying you never zeroed a rifle scope on a piece of steel at distance, cause that is all they did... this was not rocket science or anything nobody has never done before... Shoot, see the dirt splash, adjust, shoot again, hit...

Under what context would you advocate swapping your scope in the field... if you wanted to call it a field expedient zero that was maybe minute of man, okay, but the whole monkey drill was to cover up the fact the mount came loose. Nobody would willingly swap a working scope for no good reason. Nor would you want to zero a scope at 300 yards on steel... can you, sure, same way you zero at 100, or the same way a guy shoots at a rock laying in the dirt then moves to a paper target when he moves the strike closer to center. I have gotten off a plane overseas and used a 1000 inch range on paper which is a much better way to do it than steel at 300 yards.

Scopes move and adjust, that is how they work, if you can't hit something after shooting and adjusting you are doing it wrong.

Tell me the benefit you saw in that drill.... Papa Zero Three... by the way, how many shots did you see it take to hit 1 mile ?

Frank, I think we are on slightly different Freqs. My question was in reference to your statement about creative editing. What are you saying was creatively edited?

I am not referring to the 1 mile shots, I am talking just about the scope swap which is actually called Broken Scope field Zero on the DVD . As for the benefit of the scopes being passed down the line drill, I think it's as the chapter is named, a battlefield zeroing of a different optic at different ranges to show people who don't know how to do it. And in going back and looking at the video, the scope Costa had wasn't using a QD mount system but the standard rings with nuts.You can see this right after the swap as Lurch or what ever his name is, is putting the torque wrench away.

02 Battlefield Zero - YouTube

 

[Lowlight]

So you don't see him change the subject from the loose Larue mount, too that monkey drill. I suppose you missed big old advertisement for the larue mounts in the beginning ?

Creative editing is a general statement to a lot of the bs, like the 1 Mile shot which was definitely edited, besides his explanation is utter crap... battlefield zero, broke scope drill, alternative zero, etc. he talks in circles and never really makes a point. 5 minutes in and its like WTF is he saying.

So you feel this is useful, cause you have never zeroed a rifle and would not know how to shoot at something and correct ? There was no shortcut, it was shoot, adjust, shot adjust, shoot adjust. Where is the nugget of gold, beyond using a PDA ? Heck he doesn't even let Costa defeat the zero stop on the Premier which has tool-less adjustments. So it's always about compromising, because we need to promote Larue we can compromise with the STOMP and not zero the rifle 5 mils high, we gave guys QD mounts that loosened up, (remember Larue's were meant for AR15s) so we play monkey drills. Thank god for the computer right.

Why would you not talk about Best Practices in a first DVD like that instead of "field expedient', "battlefield / hasty zeros", instead we create the disc to look cool guy so people will say, "hey I have to try that". Why do you not see him finish up with Travis ?

At 610 in checking the information, he did not hit just off the left side, he hit low left, and his correction caused him to just barely tag the target at 7 O clock just on the bottom of the plate... Nice hit is the comment follows. Remember they are using PDA with revised data, it is not like they are using their old dope, they have the computer on hand to adjust. You can mix and match anything you want. Mike hit almost a 1/2 mil over the top of the target, which is huge at 610 considering those heads are about 12" if I remember correctly.

You can tell when he steps on his dick in this and the other videos, he goes off on tangents, watch the "humidity matters part" where he talks percentages of mils that your scope can't even adjust. Most of the time they are taking the decimal place beyond the scope because they are using the PDA.

if you did not have a PDA or iPhone how well do you think this method would work ?

 

[Papa Zero Three]

So you don't see him change the subject from the loose Larue mount, too that monkey drill. I suppose you missed big old advertisement for the larue mounts in the beginning ?

It's on the video, Costa says his scope is loose and Todd says they are gonna do something different. And as I posted above, from what I saw on the video, Costa had a standard ring and nut system on the scope he claimed was loose, not a QD one.

Creative editing is a general statement to a lot of the bs, like the 1 Mile shot which was definitely edited, besides his explanation is utter crap... battlefield zero, broke scope drill, alternative zero, etc. he talks in circles and never really makes a point. 5 minutes in and its like WTF is he saying.

I am not concerned,nor was I asking about,the one mile shot, it's common sense that they would have to edit that one down. As for the explanation at the beginning, Todd says something to the effect that the drill is for obtaining a 100m zero at ranges longer than 100m when you have no targets at 100ms and using the PDA to adjust for it. It's apparent that the segment was set up for the use/pushing of the PDA, which I am assuming was their intent.

Again, I was just curious what you were referring to in your earlier comment about creative editing.

 

[Lowlight]

It was a loose Larue mount, it's been quite awhile since I was shown the version I was. It was clearer in that. It's on Travis' gun in the video, it's a Larue OBR model.

I am sure there is more as I had 3 pages of issues I gave them to consider.

Sorry I didn't memorize the bs for you.

 

[Lowlight]

Also if the drill was to get a true 100m zero from the distant target, the Premier was the best opportunity.

Adjust on target then reset the turrets to your 238m dope so you could dial them back to zero. This includes the tiny bit for wind. Drill is over. PDA shows .8 for elevation and .2 for wind, loosen turrets, reset to .8 & .2 tighten. Instead of the convoluted games. I believe originally it was to designed to leave the turret on an odd number then use the reticle to hold off based on the PDA, but that went out the window.

 

[Papa Zero Three]

It was a loose Larue mount, it's been quite awhile since I was shown the version I was. It was clearer in that.

I am sure there is more as I had 3 pages of issues I gave them to consider.

Sorry I didn't memorize the bs for you.

No worries, I just thought there was something you were specifically referring to.

 

[Rlbol]

In that video the monkey drill of moving one scope to another rifle was solely to cover up the fact the Larue mount loosened during the previous day filming and at the start of the next day, Costa remarked he needed to rezero his scope because the mount was loose. Rather than do that, they changed the subject by going into that stupid monkey drill. Similar when they added the STOMP to the Travis rifle they compounded the angle, instead of having a 20MOA cant they had a 40MOA one which is why it didn't zero and they had to make "the poor man's horus" as it was put. TH does work for Horus and Larue and is supported by them which is why Larue and Horus were heavily featured. When things didn't go exactly as planned it was best to talk around it or change the subject, then to actually address the true nature of the issue. There is a bit of creative editing happening, like pretending it is practical to shoot a 308 at 1 mile... sure 36 shots later they were able to drop one in, but you'll never get real story, just the creatively edited version of events to make it look cool guy. You can correct most problems on film with a liberal use of the editing software, after that, instead of having to explain why your scope mount came loose you sold guys on the need for a QD Mount, instead of a far superior fixed one.

Some rifles do better than others swapping scopes, but all will require some form of rezeroing process. So if you don't mind changing it over and over, have at it. The trouble comes in with scopes with zero stops that don't allow you to easily go in both directions.

Can you do it, sure, is it as simple as moving it over to the next rifle, not really. Doesn't matter the mount, you'll probably find it off to some degree, but if you aren't interested in the very best, almost anything will do.

I figured that is what happened. I just was hoping there was more honesty to the video. It is to bad!!

 

[BigJimFish]

Also if the drill was to get a true 100m zero from the distant target, the Premier was the best opportunity.

Adjust on target then reset the turrets to your 238m dope so you could dial them back to zero. This includes the tiny bit for wind. Drill is over. PDA shows .8 for elevation and .2 for wind, loosen turrets, reset to .8 & .2 tighten. Instead of the convoluted games. I believe originally it was to designed to leave the turret on an odd number then use the reticle to hold off based on the PDA, but that went out the window.

Was that the original intention of the drill. Damn, that is what I thought but before long folks were holding on the 238 yd target that they were supposed to be zeroing on. Then they were looking up what range that hold would be correct for on their PDA and performing some sort of convoluted virtual zero. Takes an experienced shooter to decipher this lesson. Course, I suppose if your experienced enough to decipher it you don't much need the lesson. You definitely need the PDA though. Are they selling PDA's, is that the point of this? Perhaps I shouldn't admit ignorance about what is so clearly a very important instructional video for confusing new shooters, but it looked like a PDA add to me.