Beginner 700 SPS Tac or 700P?

[slingshot14]

Alright I've browsed the Hide and made comments on the site for some time now, and I still havent pulled the trigger so to speak on my first LR rifle. I am interested in trying my hand at long range shooting. I currently don't have anywhere to shoot greater than 500 yards. I would be more interested in a gun that is definitely sub MOA in the 100yd domain. I am in law enforcement and on a department small enough that there isn't a dedicated marksman and I would like to try to become proficient in the event a need arises. I am funding everything myself with no agency backing, and instead of supervisors watching the budget I have a wife...

Options that have presented themselves
1) a used 700P with the 26" barrel, round count approximately 300rds,
with a harris bi-pod. at $850.00
requires about a four hour drive each way, seller is not interested in shipping
2)a used 700 SPS tac. 20" barrel, round count 35,
included "bi-pod purchased at cabellas"
1pc scope base brand unknown also purchased at cabellas
Nikkon buckmaster scope 4.5-15x40
80 rounds of remington core lok and ammo can $850.00
requires about a four hour drive each way, seller is not interested in shipping
3) New Savage 10 FCP K $850.00 locally


From reading the hide and attempting to do my own research I've came to several conclusions about the "ideal" rifle for me. Preferably a Remington 700 as the aftermarket options,accessories,ease of gun smithing, and also just as a beginner looking in, people seem to show more respect to the Remington more so than the Savage. I've decided I like the Vortex Viper PST FFP rifle scope. I havent decided on MOA/MOA or MIL/MIL or powers yet. However I wont have the funds for the Viper until the bank account recovers from the rifle purchase. I like the thought of being able to shoot with the included Nikkon Buckmaster scope until that comes, then sell the Nikkon to help fund the Vortex.

Down the road I'd like to change the stock to an AICS or Manners chasis system with DBM.

By reading the above I'm sure it's obvious how green I am, I've resisted posting this before but options 1 and 2 just came open and both seem like fair prices.

Maybe there's another option I'm missing entirely that someone can point me towards?

Thanks!

 

[bhart89]

If I were you I would find an FFL closer than a 4 hr drive and then keep an eye on the for sale section here or gunbroker/auction arms. For LE use a 20" barrel would be optimal due being more maneuverable and you probably won't need to take a long range shot where. 24"+ barrel would be useful.

Do you reload? If you are on a budget ( wives are what supervisors aspire to be with regard to guarding the budget) you will need to reload to get the practice you will need to ensure proficiency.

 

[slingshot14]

I wake up everyday and get on the For Sale section. I seem to miss out on the ones that jump out to me as good options. I've really like the idea of the 700LTR. Another small confession is that after being on the hide and reading everyone's posts and stories. I really like the idea of trying my hand at seeing how far I can take a .308 round. I do not reload...I imagine it would come after trying to keep a .308 well fed. I do have a friend from a bordering county that reloads all of his pistol caliber ammo. for competition and could get him to either show me the ropes or let me run his press with my own components.

The only way I've came up with getting the go ahead from the wife....is to convince her that the 4 hour drive to Kansas City could result in a night out/hotel experience.

 

[slingshot14]

Does Option 2. The SPS Tac rifle seem like a steal of a deal or just a decent price? minus the 4 hour drive that is.

 

[jhart2424]

I had an SPS Tac as my first rifle and it served me well until I moved into the customs. My only concern about the SPS Tac you listed, is the cheap parts or unknown parts. Yes you could sell them but that takes more energy than just doing it right the first time. If you included the gas, time and a night out with your supervisor, that rifle will cost you almost double. I have also had a savage 10 FCP. The pros on this rifle is that it is user friendly in regards to the DIYer. You can easily change barrels (calibers) with a few tools. It is also extremely accurate out of the box. As far as stocks, I just got my first Manners (T4 with DBM Mini Chassis) after using an AICS and McM A4 and in my opinion a notch above.

 

[slingshot14]

Are the SPS Tac rifles generally considered to be factory sub MOA?

 

[slingshot14]

Has anyone owned both to be able to provide me a reference based on personal experience?

 

[rrflyer]

You can get a new sps tactical for 600$

Remington 700 SPS Tactical 308Win 20" Hogue Stock for Sale at Buds Gun Shop $604.00

They'll both probably shoot about the same. The finish on the 700p will be nicer an the stock is better.

The smaller rifle is a lot handier.

 

[slingshot14]

You can get a new sps tactical for 600$

Remington 700 SPS Tactical 308Win 20" Hogue Stock for Sale at Buds Gun Shop $604.00

They'll both probably shoot about the same. The finish on the 700p will be nicer an the stock is better.

The smaller rifle is a lot handier.

Thanks for the Link! i've got a buddy that does great work with Duracoat so the finish isn't as important to me. I agree the HS Precision stock would be night and day better than the hogue, based on reviews i've seen people say the hogue isn't necessarily free floating as using a bipod will cause the stock to come into contact with the barrel. Maybe I could get lucky and find a HS stock take off in the options/accessories for sale section.

I appreciate any input and guidance.

 

[FedCop]

I just purchased a b&c for 230 and a badger ordinance dbm with 10 round mag for 199 off stockystocks.com for my 700 aac sd.

 

[Genin]

Thanks for the Link! i've got a buddy that does great work with Duracoat so the finish isn't as important to me. I agree the HS Precision stock would be night and day better than the hogue, based on reviews i've seen people say the hogue isn't necessarily free floating as using a bipod will cause the stock to come into contact with the barrel. Maybe I could get lucky and find a HS stock take off in the options/accessories for sale section.

I appreciate any input and guidance.

I did exactly that. I bought an SPS Tac and then just purchased a HS stock take off from the Hide Classifieds (sold the hogue locally). The gun is a laser beam with handloads (175grn SMK, 43.5grn RL-15, win brass, CCI LR#200, COAL 2.810"). I also use a vortex pst 4-16 ffp moa/moa, great optic and great price point. You'd be well served with that combo. Light and handy.

 

[exx1976]

As for the bipod "puchased at Cabelas", Cabelas does sell Harris. Ask him how much the bipod cost. If it was in the $50 range, it's probably a blackhawk or champion. If it was $70-100 (depending on length and fixed/vs swivel), it's a Harris.

 

[ridenrunwv]

AAC-SD is also something to consider. 20 inch barrel with 1/10 twist instead of the 1/12 and threaded barrel for not much more money.

 

[exx1976]

AAC-SD is also something to consider. 20 inch barrel with 1/10 twist instead of the 1/12 and threaded barrel for not much more money.

That's what I bought. IIRC it was $650 brand shiny new last fall.

 

[ridenrunwv]

They are still going for $700

 

[Fredo0621]

Any reason that you haven't looked at the SPS Varmint. I bought mine because of the reputation on here.
Is the stock crap? Yes. But It always shot close to MOA or better. Fine stock rifle IMO and many others on here.

 

[afrancke]

I really like the idea of trying my hand at seeing how far I can take a .308 round. I do not reload...I imagine it would come after trying to keep a .308 well fed.

Actually, for precision rifle - especially if you are keen on seeing how much performance you can get out of the gun - your objective for reloading is just that, not cost reduction. You are not going to get factory ammo with the range of projectiles you'll want to use, the speeds that best suit your particular rifle, etc. so for sure plan on loading.

You will definitely get the bug sooner or later (and might as well just go there straight out of the gate if you can procure the equipment and supplies - but that is not easy right now) and my advice is to ensure you have gear you can take to the range to load with. Loading in the garage is really best saved for times when you have your recipe dialed in and you are just in production mode.

 

[ridenrunwv]

Why do you say loading at the range is preferable to in a garage or other home location??? I'm not following the entire load development at the range concept because you will be exposed to wind and other elements while reloading.

 

[exx1976]

Why do you say loading at the range is preferable to in a garage or other home location??? I'm not following the entire load development at the range concept because you will be exposed to wind and other elements while reloading.

Not only that, but my range is literally a 4 minute drive from my house, so I'm ok with several trips a day.

 

[ridenrunwv]

Same here but that's beyond the point. Even if I drove an hour to the range I would do load development and reload in general in the most controlled environment possible.

Just take good notes on your loads when testing them out and you'll know what load to further experiment with or settle on for next trip to the range.

A link to the Remington 700 Tactical AAC-SD by the way. $679
Remington 700 SPS TACT AAC-SD 308 Hogue Overmolded Ghillie Green $679.00 SHIPS FREE

 

[Strive4More]

If it is to be used in the line of duty you may end up having to stay with factory ammo for liability issues with the dept. Something to look into at least. Another route is if you plan on replacing the stock anyways just keep your eyes open for a barreled action in the for sale section. I bought a LTR barreled action off here for $600 and put it in a B&C from Stocky's. With badger rings and base I was still under the purchase price of the complete rifle new. The 1:10 in tthe AAC is great and you are able to put a brake on it outta the box saving $150 gunsmithing fee. Also being LE look into promotive.com under Leupold.They offer great discount to law enforcement and military. You have to use a agency email to access pricing and purchase and agree to not disclose pricing ect.

 

[afrancke]

Why do you say loading at the range is preferable to in a garage or other home location??? I'm not following the entire load development at the range concept because you will be exposed to wind and other elements while reloading.

For developing loads, loading where you shoot is the only way to fly. No matter what approach you use to finding nodes, you then have to go back and search around your node for optimum charge - and you don't know where that will be until you find the spots you want to hunt around in. This means at least one trip back to the range with the next range of charge weights. Now let's say you found one that really seems to work and want to play with seating depth. Another round of loads. Now let's say you want to move on to a different powder or projectile. Start all over.

I do agree that there are some disadvantages to loading at the range. Environmental conditions. Ranges that go cold (as in cease-fire) where you have to potentially step away and stay away from your loading equipment when you could use the time to load), depending on where you set up your gear. The potential hassle of carting all your stuff out there. To me, none of these inconveniences compares to the cost and inconvenience of trotting all my stuff out (including chronograph) to the range to explore a very small set of factors before going back to my garage to set up the next round of tweaks to try.

You can always do a final, final load development under highly controlled conditions - as in weighing to +/- 0.02 grains of powder, etc. - if you think there is merit, but it's hard to argue that kind of precision is needed for a ladder test or similar. What's needed is the ability to get pretty close and then the nodes themselves will reveal themselves.

 

[ridenrunwv]

If it is to be used in the line of duty you may end up having to stay with factory ammo for liability issues with the dept. Something to look into at least.

His department isn't funding the rifle purchase so most likely will not be providing him practice ammo. If you're going to shoot much reloading will provide you a way to save money over time.

With a little experimenting you can nearly duplicate whatever factory ammo you're going to carry on duty to have a cheaper option for practicing.

 

[slingshot14]

Same here but that's beyond the point. Even if I drove an hour to the range I would do load development and reload in general in the most controlled environment possible.

Just take good notes on your loads when testing them out and you'll know what load to further experiment with or settle on for next trip to the range.

A link to the Remington 700 Tactical AAC-SD by the way. $679
Remington 700 SPS TACT AAC-SD 308 Hogue Overmolded Ghillie Green $679.00 SHIPS FREE

Thanks for the link! that seems hard to beat especially with a pre-threaded barrel. I've heard nothing but bad things about the stock flexing and not being free floated but it seems like a good base platform to build on as my skill, and bank account grow.

I barely have a loose understanding of LR shooting and ballistics. What knowledge I do have has come from pouring over countless threads here and sending the occasional PM bugging someone that seems to know what they're doing. That being said I'm definately interested in reloading and like the idea of developing a perfectly developed load suited to fit a specific firearm. I however dont know even the least bit about reloading yet. I also agree that if able to use for Department/Duty I'm sure liability issues would arise using hand loads.

The rifle initally wouldn't be used for duty use. I've been after my bosses to send me to some training for some time now but keep getting the "its a good idea, we'll think about it" speech. I'm hoping that if I get the rifle and become some what proficient with it that I will be one step ahead of the game, will have more knowledge to argue my cause, and in the event I succeed wont be a total idiot around others when allowed to attend training. I have also done some research on training I could self fund after some time offered in Iowa. It seems like Controlled Chaos has a reputable program, and could be an option.

So far I'm getting a wealth of information from Yall and I truly appreciate it. I'm really glad no one has busted me down as I'm sure it's obvious I dont know what I'm talking about half the time.

 

[ridenrunwv]

No problem. I'm still new to the forum and long range shooting. I went with the AAC-SD and am very happy with it. The Hogue stock on the Tactical or AAC-SD does flex badly and will be the first thing I replace, however it is surprising the accuracy these rifles are capable of even in the cheap stock.

I was shooting a 5 inch reactive cube target with mine yesterday at over 400 yards and consistently getting hits so it is plenty accurate enough to learn with until you get the funds for a new stock.

 

[slingshot14]

No problem. I'm still new to the forum and long range shooting. I went with the AAC-SD and am very happy with it. The Hogue stock on the Tactical or AAC-SD does flex badly and will be the first thing I replace, however it is surprising the accuracy these rifles are capable of even in the cheap stock.

I was shooting a 5 inch reactive cube target with mine yesterday at over 400 yards and consistently getting hits so it is plenty accurate enough to learn with until you get the funds for a new stock.

My Google Kung-Fu found this site. It's interesting. Basically it chronicles an inexpensive introduction rifle designed to get someone into the sport of LR shooting. Some of the information seemed interesting. At one point he talks about bedding what sounded like a cheap weaver base to the action using JB Weld and using childrens playdough. I'm admittedly very new to LR rifles, and gunsmithing/customizing your rig. But am I right in assuming you get what you pay for, and if he would have sprung for a more expensive base, possibly a badger, or Seekins the use of JB Weld and Play-dough wouldn't have been necessary? It's a novel idea and I like the ingenuity of being able to do things yourself. I particularly enjoy browsing the DIY threads but I just feel like if Play-dough and JB Weld become standard parts of building "precision" rifles then I'm well on my way to becoming a professional Weaver base installer.

Thoughts?
"
'

 

[SKS Guy]

I was in the same boat as you. After I built a sniper rifle my department ordered a nice custom. Your best bet is a remington 700 AAC-SD. I've had two and both shot sub half moa on good days. Build it as you can afford it. Buds has a law enforcement division could save a few bucks. You have any questions please feel free to PM me. If you choose between those two definitly go with the 20 inch tactical.

 

[Cwoods]

If it helps any I have a 700P that is a sub MOA gun with FGMM 190's. it does however have a 26" barrel and is not the handiest rifle I have ever owned.

 

[slingshot14]

After all of the informed opponions and advice this thread has gotten me I have decided to pass on the three initial options I listed in the Original Post. For some reason I had never looked into the AAC-SD, now after some reviews and research I think it is a great idea. It amazes me how many people have looked at my thread and responded to my post, it's awesome.

This afternoon I began my quest for finding the best price possible on a new AAC-SD. I am definately interested in the 20" in the event there are barrell length options.

Anyone with a lead or link as to a reputable dealer with competitive prices???

Thanks again for all the continued help

 

[MMH]

I did exactly that. I bought an SPS Tac and then just purchased a HS stock take off from the Hide Classifieds (sold the hogue locally). The gun is a laser beam with handloads (175grn SMK, 43.5grn RL-15, win brass, CCI LR#200, COAL 2.810"). I also use a vortex pst 4-16 ffp moa/moa, great optic and great price point. You'd be well served with that combo. Light and handy.

Nice looking rifle!

 

[Genin]

thank you sir. Good luck with the AAC-SD OP!

 

[slingshot14]

Yesterday I sent an email to Buds Police Sales website about the AAC-SD. I noticed that the general website budsgunshop.com lists the rifle as in stock and with a price, however it is not listed on the Law Enforcement sales website. I'm diligently waiting to hear back from them. Has anyone had any experience ordering from the Law Enforcement part of the company? Does anyone know of any other competitive places to purchase an AAC-SD?